On many other forums lately people have been split on Iron Fist casting. Some people think it's a good opportunity for Marvel to cast somebody Asian while others think it's just silly to change his origin at all.
In response to that, here is an interesting article covering both sides of the arguement. What does everyone else think?
http://mcuexchange.com/the-ironfist-race-debate/
I don't consider myself racist. But when adapting existing character into other media, they should be as close as possible to the original material.
I mean if we are fine with changing Iron Fist into asian, we should be ok with changing Luke Cage to white, right? No, that would be racist.
Or for example I'm writing a book based on History and change Nixon to black, just because there aren't much racial diversity in the history. No that would do either.
Or we can even go further and change Iron Fist into female. Because there aren't that many female heroes, right?
So again... when adapting something, the character should stay as close as possible to the source material. Whether it's a he, she, white, black, asian, or alien.
I don't think any racists consider themselves racist.
Anyway, Nixon is not a fictional character. Luke Cage's ethnicity is central to his character. Bad examples.
"When you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
Though, more and more it seems that the ethnicity of minorities are integral to their character, while the white guy's ethnicity is not integral to the character.
shareIn comics the ethnicity of a character is a conscious decision. When they make a character that is not their default race (white) it's because they want to make a character of that particular ethnicity and consequently that ethnicity becomes an important part of the character. Which is unfortunate because that's why so many ethnic characters are stereotypical. Black characters are often from the ghetto and even heroes like Luke Cage start out as criminals. Asian characters are often martial artists, samurai, ninjas, or scientists. Native Americans are often shaman.
shareTrue, the both of you. It's clear where the problem lies. Most famous superheroes are from a time when diversity was not a concern. If creators were to do as some say and create new non-white characters, the likelihood of them becoming as popular as Batman and Captain America are pretty low. Those classic characters have had decades upon decades to build an audience, not to mention top tier creators taking turns giving them memorable stories.
"When you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
I say we make Luke Cage Chinese, and then mix it up with the rest. So that whatever race the characters originally are is different. Then we can all claim we are PC and not racist. Everyone wins or loses, depending on your perspective. 😀
shareIron fist should definitely be portrayed by an asian american. The media has a long history of grossly mis-and under-representing asian americans. There are almost no visible asian american lead actors in the media because they are RARELY casted. THe argument that casting a iron fist as an asian american is stereotyping is simply ridiculous - if it's a positive stereotype, there is nothing wrong with it. I find it really funny how a lot of presumably white commentators are arguing that the character should be white to stay true to the characters origins, yet these same people are also completely okay with whitewashed films such as the dragon ball evolution movie, aloha film and dozens if not hundreds others where asian characters are played by white protagonists.
This is Marvel's opportunity to make things right and I really hope that they cast an asian american.
The media has a long history of grossly mis-and under-representing asian americans
I find it really funny how a lot of presumably white commentators are arguing that the character should be white to stay true to the characters origins, yet these same people are also completely okay with whitewashed films such as the dragon ball evolution movie
These same people are the first to say that if they were a minority they'd be offended if "fill-in-the-blank" character was changed. Well, they're not. They've spent their entire lives seeing people that look like them having grand fictional adventures and saving the world. Marvel has had more movies starring white guys named Chris than films led by minorities combined.
They pushed back Black Panther to give us another Spiderman movie, the 6th. People have been clamoring for BP for years, but Antman debuts first. Antman!
Iron Fist's story originates in an Asian like country/world. He's the best person at an Asian art form. But he's white.
Netflix's Iron Fist should be Chinese! Make it so.
Iron fist should definitely be portrayed by an asian american. The media has a long history of grossly mis-and under-representing asian americans. There are almost no visible asian american lead actors in the media because they are RARELY casted. THe argument that casting a iron fist as an asian american is stereotyping is simply ridiculous - if it's a positive stereotype, there is nothing wrong with it. I find it really funny how a lot of presumably white commentators are arguing that the character should be white to stay true to the characters origins, yet these same people are also completely okay with whitewashed films such as the dragon ball evolution movie, aloha film and dozens if not hundreds others where asian characters are played by white protagonists.
I don't consider myself racist.
But when adapting existing character into other media, they should be as close as possible to the original material.
I mean if we are fine with changing Iron Fist into asian, we should be ok with changing Luke Cage to white, right? No, that would be racist.
Or for example I'm writing a book based on History and change Nixon to black, just because there aren't much racial diversity in the history. No that would do either.
Or we can even go further and change Iron Fist into female. Because there aren't that many female heroes, right?
So again... when adapting something, the character should stay as close as possible to the source material. Whether it's a he, she, white, black, asian, or alien.
I don't consider myself racist but I can detect a closet racist when I see one.
Blacks
And I suppose you believe the term "African American" is a politically correct term for black people?
The people of Jamaica, Haiti, and indigenous Australians would like a word with you.
Black has returned to being the most commonly used term, in case you haven't noticed.
But I suppose I should go check my white privilege.
A man never truly knows what happiness is until he gets married... and by then it's too late.
Well spoken!
Okay so I need to establish the themes... Banana-nut. That's a good muffin.
But that's the problem with people wanting to make Iron Fist Asian, the first thing that comes to mind when someone thinks of a martial artist is an Asian person, which is kind of stereotypical. Surely it's cooler then if Danny Rand is rich, white guy. Isn't it kind of racist to suggest Iron Fist can't be a white guy.
“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.”
Why is it only a problem when it's a minority associated with a stereotype? A stereotype that isn't negative and a stereotype only because white people refused to show them any other way.
How many billionaire genius white guys superheroes fill our movie and tv screens? That's not problematic? How many shy highly intelligent scrawny white males get bestowed with a magic radiation blast, radioactive spider bite, etc. and suddenly become quippy and cocky superheroes.
White heroes can be just as stereotypical, the difference is that there are so many white heroes, their tropes aren't focused on.
Netflix's Iron Fist should be Chinese! Make it so.
You do know that Spider-man's cockiness is an act that his quipping is hiding right? And you ignore that Shang Chi is the Asian Iron Fist. And before you say something about more than 1 Asian, don't forget that there is Melinda May and the half Asian Quake.
"The truth is offensive to men who love darkness."- Orholam, The Broken Eye
It's arguable if it's an act or not. I could see him using false bravado when fighting someone like Doc Ock, but he also mocks car thieves. Marvels Agents of Shield is an ensemble show. I praise them having more than one Asian character, but that is not comparable to having a feature film or tv show with an Asian protagonist.
We have nearly a dozen solo films starring white people and we can't get one single property starring an Asian or Hispanic person? We can do better. Minority people are people, not sidekicks.
And you ignore that Shang Chi is the Asian Iron Fist
When you are welcomed and accepted into a culture, it is not appropriating. Try a little harder next time. Your rotator cuff hasn't been torn from all this reaching.
Because white people have a difficult time emphasizing with non-whites.
When you are welcomed and accepted into a culture, it is not appropriating.
Which is why I'm sure Luke Cage is going to be successful. Unless you envision that every black person is going to tune in, and every white Marvel fan will just ignore it and pretend black people don't exist because they're all the evil racists you think everyone is.
It's a choice of cliches isn't it? It's either the White Savior or the All Asians Are Martial Artists trope. I'd keep him the blonde, blue-eyed rich white guy to maintain the dynamic of his friendship with Luke Cage. The show should have plenty of Asian martial artists (Lei-Kung, Steel Serpent, Colleen Wing, etc.) without making Danny Asian as well.
I wouldn't expect to see a Shang Chi project anytime soon because getting the movie and/or telelvision rights to Fu Manchu could be problematic.
Don't forget Misty Knight, Colleen Wing's partner in the Daughters of the Dragon.
Bad grammar makes you look very stupid
Nope. The character of Shang Chi was created around the same time for that exact purpose... Dont start mixing & matching characters and drastically affecting their origins & backround simply to satisfy a feeling or make a shortcut.
shareBy Asian-American do you mean someone who has Asian and White parents? A mix? Because then that wouldn't change the origins. I'm for the idea of having asian origins to help with the whole martial arts background.. but the American half giving him cause for being in America and fighting crime... that way it isn't just some American dude who was taught martial arts in some special place far away.
I mean they changed Nick Fury to be black and.. well.. Black Fury owns it lol. Then there has been the change of Johnny Storm - Human Torch - as black in the new Fox version of Fantastic Four (which from the trailer the movie looks absolutely horrible...) and yeah I wasn't a huge fan of that. Mostly because he has a defined way of looking.... and everyone loves the human torch.
But having Iron Fist have asian origins would definitely make sense with the productions. I would prefer an asian/white guy with blonde hair... but what are the chances of finding someone who has that AND can do martial arts?? Brown hair is more dominant...
But yeah I like the idea of a mixed asian white dude doing the whole Iron Fist thing.. :)
I would miss the blond hair though.... but then again, I'm a girl and it's my weakness. Along with Iceman. :P
Iron Fist is one of the few characters whose race does matter. Most of his origin story is wrapped up in being a Stranger in a Strange Land, or Fish Out of Water.
I don't normally give a crap about race changes, because character races rarely matter. But I.F. is one of the exceptions, ala Sunfire, Black Panther, Ororo, etc. His race is part of the defining context of his origin story.
Beyond that, the idea that the MCU's only Asian lead is a Kung Fu master seems a lot more offensive to me than staying true to the origins. I wouldn't care about switching a race-neutral character to Asian but not one whose race matters to the origin. Bullseye? Sure. Tombstone? Have at it. Dr. Strange? Have a frickin ball!
But race-changing Rand to Asian is not only kind of pissing on one of the big themes of his origin, it's also pigeonholing Asian actors into the same stereotype they've faced for decades.
Beyond just that, it would change the dynamic of his relationship with Luke Cage. The whole point of their friendship is that they come from drastically different backgrounds... Over-privileged White Rich Guy and Impoverished, Wrongly-Accused Black Guy form an unlikely friendship and provide each other perspective.
I don't care about Luke Cage or Iron Fist solo that much, but that dynamic between them is central to their appeal.
Its simple you just got ask yourself when you think of Danny Rand do you think White Guy or just a skilled martial artist?I would say yeah when I think of Danny Rand I think of a white guy. Same thing goes for characters like
Black Panther,Storm,Mandarin,Magneto and Steve Rogers,those are characters that you think of their races
You want tah fack wit me? You ah fACKING choiah boi compahed tu me ah choiah boi
Making Tombstone Asian would be pretty damn stupid. He's an albino black guy from Harlem, that's pretty crucial.
Hey, how about the fact that I fought an Avenger and didn't die?share
He isn't Asian, johnny isn't black, the ancient one isn't an ugly female, etc. Characters are who they are. Stop changing *beep* for PC idiocy you liberal wussies.
Personally I am so tired of this debate, one guy has a whim "let's change the kung fu's guys ethnic background to fit what I would like", and it went viral.
I have been an Iron Fist fan since '75 and what people are forgetting is that his caucasian roots are the basis of the character. He is the ultimate fish out of water, it's what made him compelling to me in the first place.
So just like with character after character a fundamental cornerstone of that character is changed to fit someone's initial whim. I don't like it, and I am in fact entitled not to like it.
But here's the problem with discussions like this. For whatever reason you cannot have an opinion like mine that they should not change characters ethnicity without being called a racist or change their gender without being called a sexist, or their sexual preference without being called a homophobe, because these things "don't matter".
Well, they do matter to me, because if you change anyone of those things, you change who the character is fundamentally. I would make the same argument against changing Luke Cage, or Storm, or Northstar. I'm just a fan of most of these characters the way they are.
It does not mean I have any political agenda, it means I don't like change.
Blast me for that, but there's no need to assume I am committing a hate crime.
Iron Fist is Danny Rand to me, if they change him, he will be different in the comics within a year, and that bothers me. Because I like the character now.
I think it's kind of offensive that just because the character is a martial artist, some people automatically jump to the conclusion that he should be Asian. Asians can do things other than Kung Fu, and Kung Fu can be mastered by people who aren't Asian.
SPOILERS:
Rosebud is a sled, Snape kills Dumbledore, Ned Stark dies.
I swear every time Marvel plans on bringing a new character into movies or television that is a white character the idiots come out in full force and cry for a race change. I also find it extremely ignorant that people think Kung Fu the character must be Asian, way to be prejudice and extremely closed minded. This is why most Asians are stuck with these type of movies clearly many think that is all they are good for.
shareIs there some one Asian quota I wasn't told about. They can make an Asian Iron Fist and add other Asian characters to the MCU. There could be an Asian Doc Octopus. There are multiple white and black characters in the MCU.
If the universe is big enough for an ex-con Luke Cage, Heimdell, an alien, and two military guys that happen to be black. We can have an Asian who knows martial arts.
Netflix's Iron Fist should be Chinese! Make it so.
it is logical because they are in AMERICA!
Danny is a rich white American, then he is an outsider everywhere he goes(K'un L'un, with Luke, with Misty, with Colleen Wing).
A rich handsome white guy may be an outsider in a fictional K'un L'un, but that's all I will give you. An Asian-American would be just as much an outsider in K'un L'un.
Sleeping with a black woman or being friends with a person of another race does not make you an outsider. He's still a white guy in America, he knows that if he wants he can go his entire life and never been in the minority unless he chooses to be. That is not true of a Black person.
How often have you ever gone anywhere looked around and realized, "I'm the only person of my race here or there aren't many of my race here." If you're a minority and middle class more than once. Most white kids have never been in a classroom where they were in the minority.
We need a Shang Chi movie! Do the right thing, Marvel. #AsianSuperhero #WhiteGuysNamedChris
Like most people from dual culture generation, living and being educated as other kids in his host country, you tend to always be an outsider.
Maybe in my backyard it's an exception, but if you're an asian, you'll be a Chinese forever, (Chinese meaning asian for most, can't make the differences between Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese or other far east ethnies.)
Whatever education or wealth or status, it's always there, you're a "chinese", with all the clichés.
I think Danny would benefit from that perspective, would open doors for either struggling with his origins or completely discard them and find how it could have a meaning later.
Then, to follow the cursus of Iron Fist, it will stay a rich boy, outsider at home, outsider in K'un L'un. And it may enhance his relationship with Luke Cage.
Obviously, it's not easy for some people to understand the value of having a hero sharing the same struggle as a mixed generation.
But, after a while, you get to think you're not half of any culture, but the sum of all, and it matters not only for you , but for your entourage.
Note that this story applies to all mixed generations.
This is not for me a racial issue per se, as for me, there's only one race of human beings. But a good way to be consensual. Iron Fist should be modern, far from the ages it's been created. (Interracial weddings has been legalized in 67 in USA)
Although, if it's a white guy i won't care either, i'm used to it.
he knows that if he wants he can go his entire life and never been in the minority unless he chooses to be.
I know he's a fictional character that represents cultural appropriation.
Luke Cage. Dare Devil. Black Panther. Jessica Jones. Asians can be heroes too, Marvel.
Yes, when I eat Chinese I am culturally appropriating. I guess I was also culturally appropriating when I married an Filipina woman in her own Church. I guess I was culturally appropriating when I had half-Asian children.
"Cultural Appropriation" is the new racist. Chinese culture is only for the yellows has replace "America is for whites"
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"Cultural Appropriation" is the new buzzword to promote segregation. Hitler appropriated the Swastika, that douchey blonde stoner with dreads, or little Jenny who can only sleep with a dream catcher, they did not. Like other topics such as racism and sexism, idiots keep trivializing the horrible, real acts of those things with such silly BS.
Good can not exist without evil. They are two sides of the same coin. Such is the duality of life.
Exactly. They are neo-segregationists, and the antithesis of what is great about living in a cultural melting pot with lots of diversity.
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