On many other forums lately people have been split on Iron Fist casting. Some people think it's a good opportunity for Marvel to cast somebody Asian while others think it's just silly to change his origin at all.
In response to that, here is an interesting article covering both sides of the arguement. What does everyone else think?
http://mcuexchange.com/the-ironfist-race-debate/
I'm in favor of changing it. Making him Asian-American changes no vital aspect of the character in a negative way but DOES get rid of the extremely outdated "White Savior" aspect of the character.
shareI agree that casting an Asian in the role would not have a major impact on the Danny Rand character, BUT it would have a major impact on the nature of his relationship with Luke Cage.
The whole concept behind the Power Man and Iron Fist comics was that it was two guys from polar opposite backgrounds (poor black guy from the ghetto versus a rich privileged white guy) who found common ground and became BFFs. The Luke Cage character is defined by his race, and Danny is often used as a foil to help illustrate the different worldview of someone from Luke's background. Making him Asian takes away that dynamic.
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I don't get how it changes their dynamics as polar opposites. Their skin colors won't be identical. Racially they will look even more different. Financially, I'd expect Danny will still be from the wealthy side of the tracks while Luke is from the poor side. So all the differences of growing up wealthy versus poor will still be there.
Their backgrounds will still be polar opposite. Even more so now.
Huge social and cultural differences in the implications of a wealthy white guy and a wealthy Asian guy having an intense bromance with an ex-con from Harlem.
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A rich, privileged hapa does nothing to change that dynamic, and pulls the white savior aspect out of it. Of course, I'm biased though. I'm a hapa actor.
shareThat white savior thing really scares you huh? Way to be a bigot.
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It's tiresome. If anything when whites have come upon other cultures they bring disease, death. and racism. Ask the native South Africans, Native Americans, and the Aboriginals if they consider whites their saviors.
Netflix's Iron Fist should be Chinese! Make it so.
What an absurd response from a poster I otherwise respect. Nothing about wanting to preserve the dynamic between Luke Cage and Iron Fist is bigoted in any way. It is childish to make entirely baseless accusations when someone disagrees with you.
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Oh god, shut up. There is no "white savior" aspect of the character. There is only the character.
Are Black Panther and Luke Cage "black saviors"? No. And if somebody made that comment, there would be hell to pay.
And lets not pretend that if they did cast an Asian, that these same people wouldn't bitch that they were stereotyping Asians as only being mystic martial artists.
And lets not pretend that if they did cast an Asian, that these same people wouldn't bitch that they were stereotyping Asians as only being mystic martial artists.
These same people? What an idiotic accusation, you asshat.
shareI agree there would probably be backlash for stereotyping Asian characters. If you are going to change a character in the name of diversity, I would choose one different than the guy you studied martial arts. Not to mention there is the loss narrative of the wealthy white guy learning from another culture and respecting it, his journey to mastering martial arts while getting his ass handed to him by a superior asian teacher. Obviously not very original but what the hell, comic book movies aren't reinventing the wheel.
I think I would have liked to see Spiderman played by an Asian man rather than iconic red headed Mary Jane an black actress. I am sure she will do a wonderful job and maybe they can give the actress some reddish hair. I might have a different opinion after the movie. But I think she is more iconic as a redhead, than Peter Parker is as a white guy. I think it would have very interesting to see Peter Parker played by an Asian guy.
ryan_12177 wrote:
I'm in favor of changing it. Making him Asian-American changes no vital aspect of the character in a negative way but DOES get rid of the extremely outdated "White Savior" aspect of the character.
So Batman, Arrow, Black Canary, Karate Kid, and Daredevil? Theirs nothing original with a "white guy" getting culture shock from learning a foreign martial art. Theirs more benefits of having a Chinese American actor for the FIRST time ever in comics and TV to STAR in his own super hero show. In a world, where a bunch of Caucasians are destined to star in their own shows, its cool to imagine a world where we could have a rare asian actor be a starring role. In the end its a TV show based on a comic book, thats over 40 years old with different writers. Having his race change is no big deal.
Showing off is the fools idea of glory
Her name is Skye/Daisy and she is the lead in Agents of SHIELD. Shang-Chi should be a character in a Kung-Fu series, but changing a character for the sake of that is unnecessary.
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Why not give the main character a sex change as well as a race change ;P
shareClearly you never read a single Power Man and Iron Fist comic. His Caucasian background is very important to his appeal alongside his bestest buddy in the whole wide world bromance soul-mate Luke Cage. Turning this into Rush Hour 4 is a mistake.
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Is there something wrong with Caucasians being in the role of a hero?
"I see you have committed three spelling errors." -Marquis de Favras upon reading his death warrant
Dude............
shareBreak it down for me, people are pitching a fit because they did not change a character that has always been white to Asian. This seems hypocritical...why not Sri Lankan? Isn't it racial bias to insist he be Asian? Far better to get over people's issues with race than run around always attempting to placate those who would never be satisfied anyway. Iron Fist is white and that is important for his dynamic, if people are not interested they don't have to watch.
shareWell first off, Sri Lankan is still asian mind you.
But the bigger picture is this: casting anyone who isn't Eastern Asian, or namely Chinese is an opportunity missed. Nothing more and nothing less. I don't believe it is racial bias - that card is held by millions of films that have an all-white ensemble cast and films that employ yellow-face. I understand that Danny Rand has always been white but people are just disappointed and jaded that a film or tv series that champions mysticism and kung fu is not spearheaded by someone who lived and breathed through that culture. Imagine a series like Luke Cage that celebrates blackness, but headed by someone who isn't black. Bluntly speaking, Danny Rand was created during a time where an Asian Superhero simply wouldn't sell any comics. Times change and things are added and omitted to reflect this (Example: Gender-bent Jeryn Hogarth and Hank Pym as a wifebeater exclusion) so I guess you could say there was a slight sliver of anticipation or hope.
Now I know very well not to judge a book by its cover, and I will definitely be watching this series to form a better opinion.
I must say I don't quite understand the second part of your comment 'far better to get over people's issues with race than run around...'
If you meant for people (I'm assuming you mean ethnic minorities) to 'get over' their race, it'll happen when people aren't discriminated against bc of their skin colour lmao.
You say "an opportunity missed". What is your actual goal? You realize in your worry about cultural appropriation you are actually reinforcing racial stereotypes. The idea that an Asian MUST play a martial artist is actually offensive if you give it some thought. This has been done repeatedly and you causing the overt action of proactively changing a race to ensure that is disturbing. Hispanics MUST play a low wage Catholic role etc? My latter point is that individuals like yourself need to get over thier obsession with race, it is both banal and infinitely redundant....That glass ceiling has been broken long ago and now you are just preaching the same old boring message. Focus on the traits of an actor's craft. Idris Elba will be an awesome gunman.
shareThe idea that an Asian MUST play a martial artist is actually offensive if you give it some thought.
You should protest that nearly all movies made in China or Japan tend to have "too many" asian lead roles and not enough Chinese of Caucasian descent. Oorrr, you can do what MLK asked of you and stop giving a crap about a person's "race" and focus on the content of one's character (in this case acting ability). Best case scenario, you get an Asian looking person to play iron fist, no one really cares except the comic purists who are pissed the character was changed for political reasons and the movie bombs. Take your propoganda elsewhere sir.
shareThere is no diversity in Asia,its 99.9 percent Asian,so til more non-Asians move to Asia thats the selection of Actors,there is diversity in America. I don't know why you think I have a propaganda by saying there is nothing wrong with an Asian playing a Martial artist,I told you the problem was playing a sidekick or henchmen and not a lead. Also I am not advocating a race change.
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I agree there is nothing wrong with an Asian playing a martial artist. I only take issue when it is encouraged over other races on the basis of one's asiatic looks or lack thereof. We have no disagreement if you are not advocating a race change, have a great day today sir.
shareHe is a white character. You want a asian character then marvel should create one. The only thing accomplished by changing characters to be politically correct is the failure and decline of the character. Choose the best actor not based on skin color but based on his ability to portray the character.
shareSo, if the best actor for the role was asian, you'd be totally okay with it. Good. That's settled then.
sharejakedadragon wrote:
He is a white character. You want a asian character then marvel should create one. The only thing accomplished by changing characters to be politically correct is the failure and decline of the character. Choose the best actor not based on skin color but based on his ability to portray the character.
Being white is bad. It's so bad that if you've always been white, you shouldn't be anymore. And you should be sorry for it. Because as you should know, every white person ever is more privileged than anyone ever, and they all are racist if they don't check that privilege.
shareYes. How ever i doubt there are many blonde haired blue eyed Asians lol. Only so many liberties can be taken.
shareDanny Rand is white. Leave him that way. Why not make a Shang Chi series, or even include him in IRON FIST if you want to use an Asian character.
shareI won't be super upset if they cast an Asian guy as Danny, but I agree that if they wanted an Asian kung fu character, they should have made a Shang Chi series rather than an Iron Fist series.
shareA Shang Chi appearence, or the Sons of the Tiger, would be SWEET😂
Bad grammar makes you look very stupid
While it would be great to get some more diversity..
Wouldn't that be almost worse to cast and Asian? I mean why this character? Isn't that just playing on stereotypes?
If we want to add diversity but not play on stereotypes.. why not and Indian Iron fist? Or Native American. A Dominican or Mexican maybe African?
Yes, Indian
He was trained in the Himalayas right?
India
Because there is nothing wrong for a story beginning in Asia or an Asian like place featuring an Asian tradition like the martial arts having an Asian protagonist. If Luke Cage can be an ex-con from the ghetto, Danny Rand can be Asian.
Netflix's Iron Fist should be Chinese! Make it so.
Well Chinese is what feels more natural. Danny Rand, was created when ASIAN Martial Arts was at its peak, before Bruce Lee had a household name. Making him an asian would further on continue the celebration of Chinese culture, which is something you hardly see. When do you ever hear of a Chinese super hero? Hell a Chinese actor staring in their own TV show or film? Like Deadpool this could've been a stepping stone of changing the game. Having Danny Rand a Chinese american (maybe half white) learning about his ancestors, his roots, is even more of a unique story than the overally exposed.... American forigner learning from a different culture.
Showing off is the fools idea of glory
When do you ever hear of a Chinese super hero?
Chinese culture,
When do you ever hear of a Chinese super hero?
Well, if they're going to use the last name of "Rand" which traces its origins to Germany and/or England, he's going to probably have to be partially white, unless you want to make him black and then the last name doesn't matter. Perhaps a Caucasian father or grandfather with an Asian mother?
The only thing that really matters is that the actor is good. If he's not blond, I don't think it matters that much.
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The best martial artist isn't white. Iron Fist himself has admitted he isn't the best martial artist, an asian man is.
I'm Puerto Rican from a family of various races. Way to adhere to the "If you don't agree with me, you're a racist" mentality. If I was a white supremacist, I'd have very boring holidays.
Marvel became Marvel in 1961, it took less than 5 years for them to debut some of the most important not white characters in comics history.
and there is literally nothing stopping a white guy from being the best martial artist if he wanted too. Martial arts isn't an asian thing, depictions of martial arts have been found in all sorts of European and African art too. Not just that, but the asian martial arts are promoted BY asians as an activity for all.
http://www.omfgdogs.com/
No activity belongs to any race. However certain activities are associated with certain nations and there is nothing wrong with expecting a story with multiple ethnic tropes to be told from the perspective of a person from that ethnic group. The reason Iron Fist isn't Asian is because the writers of that era knew whites were and still are to a lesser extent reluctant to embrace or imagine they are fictional characters that do not look like them.
I doubt a story about a young girl in Ireland that loved Ceili Dancing, wore Irish clothes, that fell in love with a handsome Irish boy would sell well in America if she happened to be black. However, make a White boy the king of the African jungle and they can't stop making movies about it. (Tarzan). A bunch of inner city impoverished kids of color struggling through high school (ho-hum). Add a naive and invigorated white teacher to the mix and the awards start tumbling in.
In a perfect world it'd be fine to tell the story of Black maids from the perspective of a White reporter, but the world is not perfect. There is a lack of stories being told about people of color as it is. I'm not going to add my two cents when the few times we do get stories not centered around western European culture there is a white protagonist.
Netflix's Iron Fist should be Chinese! Make it so.
The reason Iron Fist isn't Asian is because the writers of that era knew whites were and still are to a lesser extent reluctant to embrace or imagine they are fictional characters that do not look like them.
There is literally nothing to support your theory that Iron Fist would've Asian. The point of Iron Fist is that he's an outsider in every regard. So making Iron Fist Asian back then would have been a different character.
A. He would not be better, because his dynamic with Luke Cage would be ruined
B. He wouldn't be more realistic, because there are no Asian magical martial artists with the power of the Iron Fist that they obtained by defeating a dragon, just as there are no Caucasian people like that.
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Theirs no way knowing how Iron Fist being asian wouldve been back then. It was a diffrent time. Although now, you dont need the character Caucasian in order to feel "Out of place". He could easily be changed into an asian american, born in NY. Have learn about his roots, you can even make it so that theirs a language barrier, making him seem stand out even more. Making him half white, while looking asian can also have naysayers. Same thing happened with Bruce Lee.
Showing off is the fools idea of glory
thank you, someone with a brain.
shareA bunch of inner city impoverished kids of color struggling through high school (ho-hum). Add a naive and invigorated white teacher to the mix and the awards start tumbling in.
oh wait...
Well, our lists are the same length, if you count movies people have heard of without googling.
A man never truly knows what happiness is until he gets married... and by then it's too late.
Dangerous Minds with Michelle Pfeifffer and soundtrack by Coolio.
The Ron Clark starring Chandler from Friends. I'm sure he's not unknown.
Music of the Heart starred Meryl Streep. I'm going to guess someone watched it.
The other one starred an Oscar winner, so again, it's pretty high profile.
I know, I know, The White Man has a heavy burden and we need to be reminded how inspirational and uplifting being in the mere presence of a white person is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVF-nirSq5s
We need a Shang Chi movie! Do the right thing, Marvel. #AsianSuperhero #WhiteGuysNamedChris
Actually I was referring to Dangerous Minds and Conrack. Personally never heard of the other two.
A man never truly knows what happiness is until he gets married... and by then it's too late.
so if writers of that era as you say only wanted to appeal to white readers then why did they create luke cage. daniel rand being white in an asian dominated school of fighting works because he can relate to and understand luke cage's struggles of oppression while being on opposite sides of the spectrum. him being white is essential to his relationship with luke cage because he's a white man that can actually relate to cage's struggles in america
besides iron fist is no white savior stereotype because he is not the best martial artist in marvel. shang chi is and he deserves his own tv show because he was awsome in the comics
your argument is superficial and naive.
chuck norris was one of the greatest martial artists of all time if not the greatest. he didn't lose an official fight for 5 years in a row. thats a record that no asian has so why is it not believable that white people can't or wont make the best martial artists?
watchout your naivety might turn you into a racist and you wont even realize it
If you find a post where I said a white person can't succeed in martial arts, please let me know.
We need a Shang Chi movie! Do the right thing, Marvel. #AsianSuperhero #WhiteGuysNamedChris
Iron Fist has to be white. If they wanted a asian lead, they should have used Shang Chi, marvel's main martial artist, instead.
Bad grammar makes you look very stupid