MovieChat Forums > The Theory of Everything (2014) Discussion > What is love to an atheist?

What is love to an atheist?

posted 10 years ago by lca-blog
226 replies | jump to latest

I watched the movie today and it got me thinking a lot. The idea of having nothing after dead and no God gets me to think of something.

I googled my question to google and I came up with this. http://www.strangenotions.com/atheists-love/

I'd like to hear your opinions on this. My intentions are not to offend atheists. I just want to understand how it works.

By the way, Stephen Hawking is a perfect example of the 'problem of evil' - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil - a common hypothesis to why there is no God, I believe.

[–] pedonkle 10 years ago

Scary, isn't it, that our emotions could be induced not by any metaphysical cause, but simply by the hormones in our own bodies? Makes you really want the comfort and simplicity of the "soul" or God, doesn't it? Why should this be scary, though? Just because there is a physio-chemical basis for our emotions doesn't make them any less real. I love my wife because I do.

[–] Defenseman13 10 years ago

I'm an atheist. My question back would be this: what does your imaginary friend have to do with love?

Romance, my imagination (often based on similar fairy tales), and just plain science/hormones... human beings experience the same things, assuming your brain chemistry or upbringing hasn't turned you into a sociopath who cannot feel empathy.

No offense to the OP, but this is a silly question.

I don't actively disbelieve in silly things, it just doesn't have a place in my life. I haven't thought about "god" in a long time actually, with the exception of this post or the angry Alabama/Texas fundies who are having a fit over same sex marriage right now.

Truth is, atheists really don't care. I myself am busy volunteering at the local SPCA, spending time with my girlfriend, and busy with career like everyone else should be. Empathy, sympathy, LOVE, kindness, and just smiling or helping a fellow human being is not only something everyone should be doing, but those of us that do need to do more of it.

Listen to Lennon's "Imagine". Nuff said.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] bryanmillsfist 9 years ago

Everyone hates and everyone is indoctrinated. To think that you are a freethinker is a fallacious belief. We all are indoctrinated.Otherwise we would simply be people who believe in nothing who are guided by no principles. The notion of freethinking is one of the great myths/lies of our times. No mind is truly liberal or free. We all are narrow. We all have intellectual and ethical boundaries.

Belief in God has made people better and worse. But whatever sinful or noble acts they accomplished the person accomplished, not God. If a God exist it is an unseen force that does nothing to impact the actors in the great drama called life.

[–] brainbuster888 8 years ago

I think the OP is asking a different question.

The question is not assuming that atheists don't or cannot believe in love,
but how might we explain "love," without a god.
It assumes that everyone does in fact believe in love (which is pretty much true).

My answer is this:
If a Christian's or theist's logic demands everything such as love and this universe
to depend on some independent being, then how does the independent being have love?
If love CAN exist independently, then there is no need to explain it with some other, higher "source." It (love) simply IS, just as your god simply IS.

[–] 8 years ago

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[–] resmat-1 10 years ago

Even atheists, on an innate level, can't help but feel that they have a self that is distinct from the selves of other people. So while hormones and evolutionary instinct make them attracted to other people, they're also able to convince themselves that there's something more meaningful there. Which means that something metaphysical does exist to the extent that anything in the mind can be said to exist. And why would a God or a soul be necessary for love anyway?

[–] lca-blog 10 years ago

Okay, let's look at a few scenarios here.

What if one day, there is fire in a building and a helicopter comes to rescue. Only you or your wife can jump on. So, would an atheist choose to let the loved one go ahead and accept death? Would you accept nothing to spare your loved one?

What would you think on your dying bed in a few years time? Is it a better death when you think there's nothing ahead? No loved ones waiting for you in Heaven? Easy to say you can accept this now. But, think for a minute which death would be better (a 50% chance Heaven or nothing). I'd even let you assume Heaven really doesn't exist. Wouldn't it still better to think in a mythical way still?

What's your motto in life? Who defines it? Religions believe into different things and they all have a common belief, eg. Heaven or Hell, reincarnation (Buddhism). How's that work out for an atheist?

[–] resmat-1 10 years ago

What if one day, there is fire in a building and a helicopter comes to rescue. Only you or your wife can jump on. So, would an atheist choose to let the loved one go ahead and accept death? Would you accept nothing to spare your loved one?

In all honesty, I would probably save myself. It's hard for me to imagine myself in such a situation though. Speaking more generally, however, I'd imagine that an atheist is just as likely to save their wife as a religious person. They don't get anything concrete out of it but they would get to satisfy their own image of themselves as a good person, which isn't as selfish a thing as it sounds. And they'd also be reinforcing their own belief that their wife is someone worth saving.

What would you think on your dying bed in a few years time? Is it a better death when you think there's nothing ahead? No loved ones waiting for you in Heaven? Easy to say you can accept this now. But, think for a minute which death would be better (a 50% chance Heaven or nothing). I'd even let you assume Heaven really doesn't exist. Wouldn't it still better to think in a mythical way still?

Again, hard to say. I would imagine that I'd be scared of dying and dissatisfied with parts of my life. But, unless mine's a horrible or premature death, I wouldn't feel bitter because I'd know I'd had my time. You're also asking me whether I would consciously delude myself for the sake of comfort and I'd like to think that, even if I gave it my best shot, I wouldn't be able to. To do so would be a betrayal of a lifetime spent approaching the world in as rational a way as humanly possible. Would lying on your death bed and imagining seeing loved ones again be any more satisfying than thinking back on the time you spent with those loved ones on Earth? Finally, I don't think talking about a 50% chance is something you should do because it makes it seem as if you're implying that an atheist should just lie in order to get into Heaven.

What's your motto in life? Who defines it? Religions believe into different things and they all have a common belief, eg. Heaven or Hell, reincarnation (Buddhism). How's that work out for an atheist?

I don't have any one guiding principle. So no motto. I guess I define my own life. If you're asking me who gives my life meaning, I would argue that life has no meaning except that which we give it. If you're asking me how I stop myself feeling lonely since I don't share any religious beliefs with others, I would argue that everybody shares an appreciation of the universe and the fact that we're alive in the first place.

[–] imaginary-life 10 years ago

That answer owns! I think the person who started this thread obviously has doubts, or is obsessed with questioning those who doubt his belief. It's insulting to wonder how anyone can "love" without God, or heaven. AS if believing in a higher power has made anyone behave better in their life. I guess everyone pities the fool. Just no one is able to decide who that is. ;)

you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya,
punk?"

[–] PajaroDislexico 10 years ago

indeed, is stupid to put God between love and a person, just retarded and closed undeveloped mind, love can exist without a God.

[–] BulmaPunkRocker 10 years ago

This.

What has one thing to do with the other?
Religious people are sometimes just weird...

Please excuse my terrible redaction, english is not my native language.

[–] jmichael3387 10 years ago

Hey no problem svenrufus. In fact, your last post explained things well as to how you feel. I kinda understand that. Not totally of course, but kind of.

As for rhi-everall....let's assume that all believers in an afterlife are wrong. That wouldn't mean they have a mental disorder. It would just mean that they are wrong. The only way it's a mental disorder is if they really honestly don't believe in an afterlife, but they are so terrified that they make one up in their head.

I believe in God and an eternal afterlife. But I can see how that concept is scary. It's supposed to be scary. God's power IS frightening, even though he loves us. To me, dissolving into nothing would be very terrifying too. THINK ABOUT IT! Not a pleasant thought, to say the least. And eternal life in Hell is bad too. The ONLY good outcome is an eternal life in Heaven. With a God that has enough power to prevent us from 'disappearing', prevent us from being "bored" as one guy was worried about, etc.

Lastly, good Christians don't force their religion on anyone. They suggest it out of caring and responsibility. But they don't force anything. Totally different than the ISIS analogy that someone mentioned.

[–] joekiddlouischama 10 years ago

Lastly, good Christians don't force their religion on anyone. They suggest it out of caring and responsibility. But they don't force anything.

But you might sense the slippage between these ideas, or how they can come across similarly. Many of us do not want to be "cared for" by people who carry supernatural beliefs that they deem truthful. Now, Christian organizations engaged in social welfare without trying to actively convert people in the process would represent a different situation.

As for ISIS, I think that Kareem Abdul-Jabbar put it well the other day: it (and others like it, such as al-Qaeda) is really a terroristic political organization that figured out that if it waves around religion, it can seem deeper and attract more followers. That's how the KKK used to operate as well.

[–] jmichael3387 10 years ago

I don't know why some people seem to be so worried about Christians trying to convert people. All you have to do if someone talks about it is say "no thank you" and it's over. Not a big deal.

And yeah, the concept of a powerful being and living forever can be frightening. But so is the concept of becoming plant fertilizer. If there's a chance that there's an afterlife, even a 1-in-1000 chance....doesn't it make more sense to try to discover what to believe in? Like at least praying to God? If he doesn't exist and we simply become fertilizer....than so what? It certainly won't hurt anything to pray. Are you going to be proud of the fact that you were 'strong-minded' and not a 'weak-minded Christian' when you're fertilizing the plants? What difference does it make to be 'strong-minded'? I can't figure that one out. I believe in God for a lot of reasons. But I'm just trying to put myself in the mind of someone who doesn't. I'm thinking why chance it? Why take such a big risk by not even praying or trying to figure it out. Know what I mean?

[–] rereboy-903-525228 10 years ago

Not really, because you don't even know if, from all the religions out there, your religion is the "correct" one. So, even praying and all that you are taking a risk, the risk of your religion simply not being the "correct" one.

So, what makes you sure you won't be punished for following a religion that its actually not the correct one?

If you believe that you wouldn't be punished just for that because you had no way to know which religion is actually correct and you are basically a good person, how is that any different from an atheist that is also a good person?

An atheist also has no way to know if god exists or which religion is the right one, he simply chooses what to believe according to what's available to him, just like any religious person does.

So, if you believe you wouldn't be punished by following a religion that its not the right one if you are a good person, then, logically, you must also conclude that an atheist also wouldn't be punished if he is a good person.

Therefore, no, logically, an atheist is not taking any more of a risk than any religious person.

[–] joekiddlouischama 10 years ago

I don't know why some people seem to be so worried about Christians trying to convert people. All you have to do if someone talks about it is say "no thank you" and it's over. Not a big deal.

Let me preface my comments by saying that I am not "worried" about it. That said ...

A) Why try to "convert" anyone to any religion? If your religion is so great, won't people become attracted to it on their own? Why not leave people alone?

What you may not be seeing is that from a societal or communal perspective, religion functions as a form of social control, thought control, brainwashing, conformity, and hegemony as much as anything. Extended further, religion has often served the purposes of colonialism, imperialism, terrorism, and war, needlessly dividing and annihilating people for, frankly, the stupidest of reasons: my mythology and supernatural belief is better than yours! Indeed, people might as well kill each on Halloween over the question of which ghost stories are more believable.

There is a reason why John Lennon once sang about imagining a world with no religion.

To be clear, I am not antireligion per se. I am just saying that if one broadens one's perspective, proselytizing is not as innocuous as it may seem.

B) To my previous point, there are sufficient numbers of Christians and Muslims who actually do want some sort of apocalyptic "clash of civilizations" that will wipe out the other side and lead to global hegemony for their side.

If there's a chance that there's an afterlife, even a 1-in-1000 chance....doesn't it make more sense to try to discover what to believe in? Like at least praying to God? If he doesn't exist and we simply become fertilizer....than so what?

Atheists and agnostics have gone through a process of discovery; that is why they reject religious dogma and think for themselves (most of them, anyway). Presupposing the existence of "God" (which is an ambiguous identification at best) is the antithesis of an open and objective process of discovery.

It certainly won't hurt anything to pray.

Pray to whom? Pray to what? Pray under what faith?

Such an idea could also cause a skeptic to surrender his or her individual determinations and to waste his or her time while living in false fear of suffering eternal damnation or missing out on eternal salvation. Those notions simply serve to comfort and control people while they live; they do not necessarily have anything to do with what happens when they die. So if one does not really believe in those concepts and does not need that comfort, why waste one's time and sacrifice one's intellectual autonomy? Frankly, you are speaking to my point about religion (from a sociological perspective) constituting a ritual as much as anything else. You are asking people who see no purpose in a certain set of rituals to engage in those rituals out of fear and dubious hope, factors that will not necessarily improve their lives and will probably make them worse.

But this question goes back to my original point: why should anyone care whether anyone else prays and believes in a certain creation/culmination mythology? You don't see Native American tribes going around trying to convert others to their creation/culmination mythology.

[–] ZiaMcCabe78 10 years ago

If there's a chance that there's an afterlife, even a 1-in-1000 chance....doesn't it make more sense to try to discover what to believe in? Like at least praying to God? If he doesn't exist and we simply become fertilizer....than so what? It certainly won't hurt anything to pray.

Yeah, what you are saying is known as Pascal’s Wager ... and it's been criticized for hundreds of years.

[–] KatzMeowz 10 years ago

Why do xians think they have a right to knock on my door on a Saturday morning to try to share the "good" news? Do they really think that anyone living in the US hasn't heard about their silly religion? Why are xians trying to insert their religion into politics and make the US in to a hideous theocracy? Why do you think you have a right to use your bible to dictate other people's lives?

Your xian god is a psychopath. If frightens me much more that people worship something so horrible.

Why are you taking such a big risk by not praying to Allah and following Islam? Why are you risking Zeus' anger? What if you fail to earn Valhalla? What if, by following xianity, you're earning your place as a bug in your next life?

[–] Freudz_Wet_Dream 10 years ago

Nobody is worried. Are you worried that someone can convince you there is a Santa Clause? The fact that you believe that it's pride that keeps people from believing in a deity is ludicrous.

You ain't got a license to kill bookies and today I ain't sellin any. So take your flunky and dangle

[–] galluslass 10 years ago

"I don't know why some people seem to be so worried about Christians trying to convert people. All you have to do if someone talks about it is say "no thank you" and it's over. Not a big deal.

And yeah, the concept of a powerful being and living forever can be frightening. But so is the concept of becoming plant fertilizer. If there's a chance that there's an afterlife, even a 1-in-1000 chance....doesn't it make more sense to try to discover what to believe in? Like at least praying to God? If he doesn't exist and we simply become fertilizer....than so what? It certainly won't hurt anything to pray. Are you going to be proud of the fact that you were 'strong-minded' and not a 'weak-minded Christian' when you're fertilizing the plants? What difference does it make to be 'strong-minded'? I can't figure that one out. I believe in God for a lot of reasons. But I'm just trying to put myself in the mind of someone who doesn't. I'm thinking why chance it? Why take such a big risk by not even praying or trying to figure it out. Know what I mean?"

The converting people is at best patronising, arrogant and annoying (I understand that a true believer thinks they are doing you a favour thoug by saving you) - at worst it can be downright damaging, controlling and dangerous.

And as to why take a chance on not believing? You can't fake it (not to yourself) - you can't make yourself believe. You just either do usually or you don't. Often people change their minds or have doubts. To most atheists I know, it's just logical and common sense. Even my children came to that conclusion from a young age with no input from me as I told them the concept of God (not atheism) to let them decide for themselves if they believed or not.

Americans and their attitudes to religion is facinating. So different to much of the rest of the western world. Atheists are spoken of strangely, pityingly, with fear and horror even and mistrust - like they are some different species. In other parts of the world, it's just not a big deal or conflicting at all.

[–] Korios 10 years ago

That wouldn't mean they have a mental disorder. It would just mean that they are wrong.

Most mental disorders are sociologically defined. A JudeoChristian or other mainstream religion believer today is not considered insane because believers in these religions are still the majority (not for long though, their numbers are collapsing fast). Even when they become the minority they will still not be considered insane by the mainstream psychiatry, because their numbers will still be healthy.

In the far future, however, and assuming that a prolonged age of reason, science and enlightment will prevail, the religious might reach <1% numbers. At that time they will be considered weird because they will be outside the social norm, in the same way current believers in Mithraism, Orphism, Ancient Greek polytheism, Osirism, Zoroastrism etc etc are regarded as bizarre at best, crazy at worst. Even some habits which today have been deemed either illegal or results of a mental illness (such as pedophilia), in the past have been considered perfectly natural, because the society of the time accepted them as normal.

Fanboy : a person who does not think while watching.

[–] joekiddlouischama 10 years ago

Speaking more generally, however, I'd imagine that an atheist is just as likely to save their wife as a religious person.

Yes, the mistake that some religious people make is that they imagine that virtue, morality, and positive principles cannot exist without religion.

[–] pedonkle 10 years ago

What if one day, there is fire in a building and a helicopter comes to rescue. Only you or your wife can jump on. So, would an atheist choose to let the loved one go ahead and accept death? Would you accept nothing to spare your loved one?

Sitting here at my desk, I say that I would want to save her. I have no idea how I would react in that moment. I'm not sure anyone else does, and I would be very skeptical of anyone who claims they know exactly what they would do in that situation.

What would you think on your dying bed in a few years time? Is it a better death when you think there's nothing ahead? No loved ones waiting for you in Heaven? Easy to say you can accept this now. But, think for a minute which death would be better (a 50% chance Heaven or nothing). I'd even let you assume Heaven really doesn't exist. Wouldn't it still better to think in a mythical way still?

I do not live my life in order to get into heaven. That kind of thinking is one of my issues with the concept of heaven - that people live good lives in order to get there. It's no different than the kid acting nice in December in order to get presents. He's not being good just for the sake of being good, he's doing so in order to get something for himself. In a way, it is selfish.

What's your motto in life? Who defines it? Religions believe into different things and they all have a common belief, eg. Heaven or Hell, reincarnation (Buddhism). How's that work out for an atheist?

My motto in life is best summed up by, of all things, a quote from the TV show Angel: "If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."

The full quote is less succinct, but a little clearer: "If there's no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. 'Cause that's all there is. What we do. Now. Today."

Basically, do what we can to make the world a better place for everyone, including those that come after us, not just for ourselves.

Another way of saying this is from the song "Head Rolls Off" by the Scottish band Frightened Rabbit:

"When my blood stops, Someone else's will not.
When my head rolls off, Someone else's will turn.
And while I'm alive, I'll make tiny changes to earth."

[–] resmat-1 10 years ago

You name-dropped Frightened Rabbits and have therefore won the thread. I'd probably give you additional credit for the Angel reference but I'm afraid I never watched that show.

[–] robbystoner 10 years ago

I do not live my life in order to get into heaven. That kind of thinking is one of my issues with the concept of heaven - that people live good lives in order to get there.

Hi. Woo hoo.. Religious person over here.

I do not try to be good in life to get into heaven. I try to be good because I like to try to be a good human being. I don't think there is a heaven but I am still religious and follow religious holidays and customs. I like the idea of religion because I think it helps some people be better people and nicer people to others who they aren't related to or hardly know.

"Oh, Mama, can this really be the end, to be stuck inside of mobile
with the memphis blues again"

[–] HelveticaFont 10 years ago

Religion might help people be better but is it always for the right reasons? It's also used to justify things that wouldn't otherwise be justifiable.

[–] robbystoner 10 years ago

Well.. you could really go round and round in circles with that one. p\People use politics, racism, science and medical research (to name just a few) to justify things that "wouldn't otherwise be justifiable". Whatever gets you your kicks.

"Oh, Mama, can this really be the end, to be stuck inside of mobile
with the memphis blues again"

[–] Citizen88 10 years ago

In my case, religion had a bad effect. I'm a Christian

From age 13 to 17 we had a girl in our class who was a Jehova's Witness. I was so into my religion that time, that I was looking for evidence to bring to class in order to prove that her beliefs were wrong. I never thought of what I believed in tho'. Long story short, I "verbally" fought with that girl almost evert day, in front of my classmates and my teachers. I even made her cry a few times. My parents, my friends, my teachers, my classmates, they all knew what I was doing to that girl and they not only didn't tell me to stop, they even encouranged that behaviour.

I'm talking about ordinary people, well educated, good people, who never hurt anyone, who help other people, who love each other. My point is, religions sometimes do more harm than you think. They can turn normal or really good peope to "evil".

Thank god I'm an atheist for the past 10 years and all people are equal to me now.

[–] HelveticaFont 10 years ago

From age 13 to 17 we had a girl in our class who was a Jehova's Witness. I was so into my religion that time, that I was looking for evidence to bring to class in order to prove that her beliefs were wrong. I never thought of what I believed in tho'. Long story short, I "verbally" fought with that girl almost evert day, in front of my classmates and my teachers. I even made her cry a few times. My parents, my friends, my teachers, my classmates, they all knew what I was doing to that girl and they not only didn't tell me to stop, they even encouranged that behaviour.

I'm talking about ordinary people, well educated, good people, who never hurt anyone, who help other people, who love each other. My point is, religions sometimes do more harm than you think. They can turn normal or really good peope to "evil".

Thank god I'm an atheist for the past 10 years and all people are equal to me now.

What kind of school was it and what sheltered part of the world was it where that was acceptable and encouraged?

[–] Citizen88 10 years ago

Racism is everywhere.

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[–] iKnowFilm 10 years ago

Your scenarios have a big "so what" slapped on them. Who cares? Why does that have any validity to what's true?

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[–] hoochiemoochie 10 years ago

I am so thankful for your words...it is very refreshing to hear from an honest atheist. A person who admits that life has no meaning if there is nothing beyond the physical realm.

I've always said if I was an atheist I'd admit the nihilistic nature of existence to others and let them know that, for the most part, life is a big nothing that means nothing and, thus, I feel a sense of nothingness on a regular basis (probably when I allowed my mind to wander).

I take no pleasure that it deeply hurts you to believe this, but I am glad you spoke out and that your words don't sound like they come from a place of hate but a place of honesty.

Too many atheists are militant: they are mean-spirited malicious people who insult, denigrate, mock, and lambast those who believe. Their unbelief comes from a place of pain, resentment, hate, and, thus, I do not find it genuine. To me, anyone who truly professes to believe that there is nothing would be much more subdued and distressed or, depending on their personality, would be engaging in every physical pleasure under the sun (eating, gambling, drinking, sex, drugs, partying, etc.)

Finally, I just want to say that if more atheists felt and spoke as you do I don't think there would be so much contentiousness between believers and non-believers.

P.S. None of this excuses the maliciousness that comes from those who say they believe either. Of course, anyone who professes to believe and treats anyone in a cruel or unkind way is probably not genuine either...or they're supremely misguided.

P.P.S. I do hope you find true peace soon.

[–] E_nineteen 10 years ago

I don't like to wade into religious debates but this comment was a little rude. An 'honest atheist' is not someone who feels that lack of religion 'kills [them] inside'. That is just the opinion of one atheist, which is fair enough.

I don't think there is an afterlife, but I do think life has meaning. Not meaning on a grand scale, as if I will be rewarded or reprimanded after death, but more to try and put a legacy on the planet - whether that be by having kids and furthering the human line, or to try and do something that leaves a lasting impression. I don't look for the love of God, I look for love by future generations (maybe my own, maybe others).

I don't fear death as some cold empty thing where nothing will happen but rather I think of it as going to bed after a long day. Simply ceasing to exist is peaceful and fine. To be honest I rather find the idea of an afterlife off putting, because it would be nice to live a long, full and pleasurable life and then get to rest at the end of it. I don't want to have to carry on for eternity (yuck).

'Their unbelief comes from a place of pain, resentment, hate, and, thus, I do not find it genuine.' By golly I find this an odd statement, though it might be true for some atheists. I also think it's ignorant for you to say 'if more atheists spoke as you do I don't think there would be so much contentiousness between believes or non-believers' because what I am reading is you saying 'if more people believed with religious views, despite not being religious, we wouldn't get so annoyed at them.' I hate to generalise, but that's classic religious preachiness in one sentence. Heightened by your idea of physical pleasures being linked to this 'pain' and 'resentment' (sex! The horror!)

Religious belief is tied to emotion, and I think that's kind of what the OP is saying in this thread (how can an atheist experience emotion if emotion is tied to religion?), and I can see what they're saying there. Derren Brown did an experiment where he 'converted' an atheist - simply by engulfing her in emotion and subconsciously linking that in her mind to a love from God. It's worth noting that Brown is an atheist and finds that all very fascinating, as do I. I like that emotional side of religion, I think it's very powerful and important. But that's not to say that emotion is a product of religion. I just think that's how religious people process their emotional feelings - they link it to God, or whatever they believe in.

[–] curemad_jelly_tot 10 years ago

And how is that any different from an ignorant believer asking how atheists feel love as if we're some kind of aliens?

There are good and bad people in all walks of life!

[–] niloc4487 10 years ago

You and the OP have warped definitions of what an atheist is. Not believing in God doesn't make them lost people. Most lost people I know are super religious, because they don't know how to think for themselves. How rude & absurd a thought. How can atheists love if they don't have God in their hearts? Pretty easy, actually. I love my family. God didn't tell me to. Their actions & the time spent with them has built up a love so strong I don't need religion to help it stay intact.

Also, just because on might be an atheist, doesn't mean they hate or can't stand Godly people. For years now, I have questioned the existence of God & am worried he/she/it does not exist, but I still have hope. Do I think I will go to Heaven & see all my loved ones when I die? Not really, but I really hope I'm wrong.

Are you really blaming ignorant atheists for head-butting that goes on between them & religious people? Most atheist could care less about religious debate. It is the religious people who are always judging others and trying to convert them to their side.

I can't stand people like this who think they are asking "observant" questions about people's beliefs, when it actuality, they are so clueless about their fellow man it's not even funny. It is I who actually feels more sorry for people like you.

[–] bluemagicmist 10 years ago

Okay, let's look at a few scenarios here.

What if one day, there is fire in a building and a helicopter comes to rescue. Only you or your wife can jump on. So, would an atheist choose to let the loved one go ahead and accept death? Would you accept nothing to spare your loved one?

What would you think on your dying bed in a few years time? Is it a better death when you think there's nothing ahead? No loved ones waiting for you in Heaven? Easy to say you can accept this now. But, think for a minute which death would be better (a 50% chance Heaven or nothing). I'd even let you assume Heaven really doesn't exist. Wouldn't it still better to think in a mythical way still?

What's your motto in life? Who defines it? Religions believe into different things and they all have a common belief, eg. Heaven or Hell, reincarnation (Buddhism). How's that work out for an atheist?

I would choose my loved one in a life and death situation. I don't understand why you think atheists want to die, lol. Atheists are just as capable of feeling love as a person who believes in god, or the fairies etc.

I have no fear of death and I accept there is no heaven or hell. I was raised Catholic and as an adult, I reject those teachings, that there is no god. Once I learned about all the creatures that inhabit this world, about evolution... the universe and the uncharted unknown yet to be discovered, I KNEW there was no god. I have no doubt in my mind.

My thoughts are my own, there is no man in the sky infiltrating my brain, playing with my conscience. It's actually a kind of madness to believe otherwise.

There are people who are essentially 'bad' people, but they still attend church, lie to their family, steal, cheat, but nothing is going to save them. If they think a god will, they're in for a disappointment. Of course, this goes for atheists too, being an immoral person will land you in jail. We have the judicial system to deal with criminals, it's ludicrous to believe a god is going to punish them in the afterlife. For an atheist, it is the here and now, to me that is a beautiful thing.

I find it strange how religious folk are scared of atheists, makes me KNOW I'm on the right track. I don't have that fear, nothing will shake my foundations, not even religious people who are scared of their own shadow. They instilled that fear in me at 5 yrs of age, I've thrown those shackles for good.

[–] bobbobbob123 10 years ago

Wouldn't it still better to think in a mythical way still?

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager.

You could be hit by a bus outside your house today (a 50% chance of dying or living). Wouldn't it still better to stay home?

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] DirtyYoungBoy 10 years ago

"What if one day, there is fire in a building and a helicopter comes to rescue. Only you or your wife can jump on. So, would an atheist choose to let the loved one go ahead and accept death? Would you accept nothing to spare your loved one?"

This depends on how impulsive you are.

[–] ContinentalOp 10 years ago

What if one day, there is fire in a building and a helicopter comes to rescue. Only you or your wife can jump on. So, would an atheist choose to let the loved one go ahead and accept death? Would you accept nothing to spare your loved one?

The fact that you have to ask this question makes it clear that you have a bigoted and negative view of atheists deep down. Most would sacrifice their lives to protect loved ones, it is human nature and common decency when love is involved.

What would you think on your dying bed in a few years time? Is it a better death when you think there's nothing ahead?

If there is nothing after death, there is no pain after death or anything like that, just non-existence, therefore there is actually nothing to fear nor hope for. But death is always said for people of most belief systems and for those who hold belief. Last thoughts when they die are probably directed to more important things than some abstract god, such as family, friends and humanity itself.

But, think for a minute which death would be better (a 50% chance Heaven or nothing)

In most Christian denominations, you have a 50% chance of a permanent hell too; which is something I find to be both illogical and immoral. Nothingness is better than hell. Heaven is better than nothingness but with all the different faiths out there, which to choose? There are more loving, hopeful and logical faiths than the forms of Christianity that most Americans believe in, but there are still too many to choose. In most of the more logical faiths, you get purified of sin via a few means, whether purgatory or reincarnation, and thus eventually, due to the mercy, grace, morality and, dare I say, love of their respective god or spiritual system, every reaches the afterlife or enlightenment. In the Christian you probably believe god allows people to go to hell for not choosing him - and no, I know you will say that everyone is with sin, but by believing in your god, you get saved but the truth is that he still allows people to suffer for ETERNITY (not just a long time) simply for not choosing him, despite the fact that he never clearly revealed himself nor put much evidence for his existence on the Earth (and no, the ''miracles'' of nature are not evidence). This seems like an evil belief and one I do not think I can morally or logical belief in. If an atheist is wrong about there not being god, I believe that a truly just, merciful and loving god would find a way to teach that atheist after they died and eventually all non-believers will reach heaven via spiritual learning. I do not accept the cruel, harsh and unloving god of fundamentalist Christianity or any forms of Christianity which has the same belief in hell.

What's your motto in life? Who defines it? Religions believe into different things and they all have a common belief, eg. Heaven or Hell, reincarnation (Buddhism). How's that work out for an atheist?

They simply do not believe in god nor the afterlife (unless we class some types of Buddhists and Hindus and pantheists in this group as many do not believe in god (pantheists worship nature as god) but might have views on an afterlife and other religious aspects), and thus it does not affect them. But morality is not the same as religion, thus most go by the accepted gods of morality, which is pretty much ''hurt no one'' and look out for your fellow man. You do not need god to be good.

Formerly KingAngantyr

[–] bellapeligrosa 10 years ago

Let's turn it around. Would someone who believed in heaven and life after death sacrifice themselves because they knew that this life wasn't the end? No more than an atheist I think. In that scenario one of two things will win over, and neither are to do with religion: 1. your overwhelming love for your nearest and dearest to the point you'd be willing to die for them. 2. Survival Instinct - putting yourself first.

People on this board are describing atheists like some sort of weird fungus you've found growing between your toes. Most people I know in the UK aren't religious and don't believe in life after death. This question might be posed over a beer down the pub and the answer would be 'nah....' then we'd move onto something else. We don't spend tracts of time worrying about it. If I'm on my deathbed and about to die then I'll either be at peace or scared - it doesn't really matter what happens next at that point does it? My life will be over and everything else will move on, just as it did when loved ones died. Make the most of people, pets, your life, whilst it's all happening is my motto and make sure that when you've gone people remember you, and talk about you for the good person you were. That way you'll live on - in memory at least.

It's too cerebral! We're trying to make a movie here, not a film!

[–] blackmetalwt 10 years ago

if there s one thing i m absolutely sure of, that thing is that god does not exist. i am 150% atheist. and i m telling you if i were to choose between me and her, i would accept to die in pain and suffering just for her to survive. that simple. we all die anyways why would i be afraid of death

[–] simonedwards_1 10 years ago

i am 150% atheist - No you are not, you are 100% atheist, anything more than 100% is absurd.

I am a medical scientist, I do not believe in God, however I do believe that religion has given us beautiful things, Buildings, Art etc.

I think if people chose the middle ground - Agnostic the world would be a safer place.

Just because you don't believe in God, does not mean you cannot think about the possibility of God and how that can/has effect/ed Mankind.

Mankind has a inbuilt inertia to follow the heavens, think Egyptians and the Sun.

This is not a criticism just food for thought.

[–] shadowfaximile 10 years ago

Well put.
In essence, atheism is close minded.

[–] slazev 9 years ago

Nothing that he said had anything to do with atheism being close minded.
Get off your high horse.

[–] curemad_jelly_tot 10 years ago

Yes, a lot of religions state there's an afterlife. They could all be wrong. Or it could be a metaphor (that's the popular go to answer when the texts are contradicted by science, right?) and just refer to how you're remembered by people that are alive. Also, just because a lot of people believe something, that doesn't make it correct - there might just be a lot of ill-informed people.

Here's a question for you: God created people (according to all modern religions of which I'm aware) thus it follows that the oldest civilisations would have the most accurate knowledge of this God. We're reading stories that have been passed down through generations and it's basically just hearsay. However, ancient religions are now viewed as nothing more than fairy stories/myths/legends. If God really did put us here then I think these ancient civilisations knew a 'ell of a lot more about it.

Finally, the initial question "Is there a God?" has two potential answers: yes or no. Thus, choosing no gives me a 50% chance of being correct and a life where I choose for myself how to conduct myself; if I choose to show kindness and empathy, I'm not doing it to book my place in Heaven. Choosing yes gives you a 50% chance of being correct but then choosing the correct religion to follow from all those available is going to reduce your chance of being correct quite dramatically.

[–] eclipsed-bythe-moon 10 years ago

In response to the questions about what atheists may think in the face of death:

"I know it is coming, and I do not fear it, because I believe there is nothing on the other side of death to fear. I hope to be spared as much pain as possible on the approach path. I was perfectly content before I was born, and I think of death as the same state. What I am grateful for is the gift of intelligence, and for life, love, wonder, and laughter. You can't say it wasn't interesting. My lifetime's memories are what I have brought home from the trip. I will require them for eternity no more than that little souvenir of the Eiffel Tower I brought home from Paris."
-- Roger Ebert

Source: http://www.rogerebert.com/rogers-journal/go-gentle-into-that-good-night

[–] Gun_Murat_Ilban 10 years ago

First of all, an atheist's love is not different than a religious person's love. Secondly, not all the atheists believe the death is the end. I'm an atheist, I don't believe in God(even though I believe the humanity could've been created by another race outer space), I don't believe in Heaven or Hell but I do believe there will be a life after the death of the human form.

I would've definently saved my wife, even if I knew I was going to the "nothing", the infinite death. Love is not something goes with the beliefs, I'm a very cynical and cold person; I could kill people without blinking for survival, but I also would die for the person I loved. So long story short, your character and beliefs doesn't have an effect when it comes to love.

[–] Krustallos 10 years ago

think for a minute which death would be better (a 50% chance Heaven or nothing). I'd even let you assume Heaven really doesn't exist. Wouldn't it still better to think in a mythical way still?

As 'Hawking' says in the film, it doesn't matter what we "believe". The only thing that matters is reality.

You can't make heaven exist by choosing to believe in it. Either it does or it doesn't. And looking at the available evidence, I think a rational person would have to conclude it's extremely unlikely.

I used to want to change the world. Now I just want to leave the room with a little dignity.

[–] scootergirl9988 10 years ago

What would you think on your dying bed in a few years time? Is it a better death when you think there's nothing ahead? No loved ones waiting for you in Heaven? Easy to say you can accept this now. But, think for a minute which death would be better (a 50% chance Heaven or nothing). I'd even let you assume Heaven really doesn't exist. Wouldn't it still better to think in a mythical way still?

I believe there is nothing when we die, something for which we practice each night when we sleep. Outside of dream state we are aware of nothing when we sleep, which is how it will be when we are dead. Not scary in the least.

Your beliefs, however, are terrifying in the extreme, something you would see if you really stopped and thought about it.

According to the theists, the afterlife is eternal. Now, unless that death also means a transformation into a being that can warp space/time (something that no religious book alludes to) then you will be stuck with a linear eternity. Christ, I can't think of anything more frightening. Think about it. You die, a hundred billion years later there you still are (and with the same "loved ones", I imagine) and guess what? You've still got a hundred billion more years to go, and a hundred billion more after that, and on and on and on. Thanks but no thanks. I'll take oblivion over that kind of hell any day of the week.

Even if your eternity is not linear, how long before you've experienced all there is to experience and everything becomes a repeat? How long before you've done everything 100 times, or 1000, or 1000000, all the while knowing you've still got eternity to go? Like I said. Hell. Absolute hell.

[–] StandardDeviation 10 years ago

Love is sacrifice, no matter what you label yourself as.

Everyone is going to die anyways, if you die for someone you love it's a good death. I don't need a promise of candy if I'm a good boy. I'm a big boy, spare me the fairytales.

Blocking anyone subscribing to the moronic alpha/beta tripe.

[–] ricardo-157 10 years ago

I don't have a wife or a child yet, so I don't know. Yet I don't think that religion will help you make this decision of life and death in any way, if something horrible were to happen.

The second paragraph is an easy one. There is nothing after death, so the only thing you can fear and justify in a rational way is how you're going to die -- as in the process of dying itself. Once you're actually dead nothing exists for you anymore so you won't be like "Oh my God, this whole nothing (being dead) sucks!" You won't even notice that you're dead.

The third one is easy as well. You don't have to believe in some kind of religion to have a motto. I feel it's even easier to enjoy life knowing that this life is IT. You're not going to say: "Yea, well, life didn't work out as planned, but maybe it gets better in heaven."

I feel if you accept evidence and therefore facts a whole new world of science opens up in your life -- there would be so much more to explore than only one of an insane amount of religious books. It's not like scientists are making stuff up and say: "Yes, that's how it all happened and that's it, you have to accept it." No, they can and have to back up their claims with evidence and if they're not able to prove their thesis, it's just going to be dismissed. It's mostly a matter of education: Countries with a high average level of education usually have a lot, lot more non-believers than countries with where people are not well educated. Just look at the Middle East where most people are poorly educated and check the percentage of believers in this part of the world. Then compare it to countries with a very high standard of education like Germany, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Austria, Switzerland, the Netherlands and so on. You'll notice a pattern, since most of these people in those countries rather believe in stuff that actually makes sense and has been proven to be true.

[–] Benjeru 10 years ago

Yes, if I really loved my wife very dearly, I would probably choose to safe her as long as we had offspring that could continue my legacy. If we had no offspring, and I did not love her, then the situation would be different. There would be no reason for me to sacrifice my life for the life of another. I doubt you would sacrifice yourself as well. Why would you?

When I was a young man in the army, and an Atheist, I would have died for my brothers-in-arms because they were my best friends.

Today it may seem irrational, but that is the way we all felt. You never leave a brother behind.

[–] KatzMeowz 10 years ago

Why do you think there's a 50% chance of there being an xian Heaven? It's not the only sort of afterlife humans have created and believed in. Why don't you put yourself in the position to ponder if you'll be reincarnated as a bug? What about making sure you have the coins to cross the Styx? Do you fear not being warrior enough to earn Valhalla?

You've created a variation of Pascal's wager. The problem is essentially a false choice. It's not a chance of Heaven or nothing. What if one of the thousands of other gods/religions is true? You've lived your life angering the "real" god and you're doomed anyway.

So, no, mythical thinking isn't any real help. It gives false comfort and hope.

Atheists are a diverse group of people. There's no cohesive "motto" that atheists must believe in to join the club. People finding meaning in various ways. For some, it's family and/or friends. For others it's working to make the world a better place. For others, it could even be material comforts. This is the only life we get. That motivates many atheists to making the most of it.

[–] smikislt 10 years ago

What if one day, there is fire in a building and a helicopter comes to rescue. Only you or your wife can jump on. So, would an atheist choose to let the loved one go ahead and accept death? Would you accept nothing to spare your loved one?

Are you trying to imply that Atheist would save him self and not the wife? Suicide is a sin for which you cannot go to heaven, so if a believer saved his wife and not himself, would he be committing a sin, because no matter how you look, it is suicide. Jumping in front of a car while waiting to cross the street, is exactly same thing.

Religion got nothing to do with this, in situation like that it all depends how calm you are, if you had special training and how fast on your feet you can think. Or in most cases you either freeze and panic, or try to save both of you.

[–] pauleky 10 years ago

You say you don't mean to offend atheists, and then you go and do it. Face it - we don't need a fairy king in the sky to make life meaningful for us. If you do, great! I don't have to think in a "mythical way," whatever the hell that means. If you cannot find joy, passion and a reason to exist in the everyday world, then I feel the same pity for you that you so clearly feel for atheists.

[–] kvkk 9 years ago

A person doesn't save his wife's life just 'cause he fears/acknowledges God... what bs are they teaching you at church...
Death is scary because you don't want to leave this life... not because you're going/not going to heaven or hell... Death is the primal fear for all living beings... an animal with no sense of God would fear death just as much as everyone if it can sense it coming...
If I'm 100% sure that I go to heaven, I might be less willing to resist death, but who shows me the proof now? I can't just rely on a book 2000 years old written by "God knows who"...
For an atheist or for any religious person for that matter, living is to achieve something... and enjoy as much as we can by living up to fullest extent... religion is one path, not the sole one

[–] curemad_jelly_tot 10 years ago

You can speak for yourself. I've been with my other half 3 years and we have amazing chemistry but I fully accept it's biological. Pheromones at work. I actually love his smell. We also hold similar moral beliefs and had a fairly similar upbringing despite living in two different towns. This probably helped to make us compatible. Prior to meeting him I was hung up on plenty of other guys. He's not "the one", he's "the one I chose to be with."

[–] fdog9 10 years ago

It's silly to think an atheist can't feel love. Morality doesn't come from religion. Plenty of religious people steal and kill. Every once in awhile you hear about a priest or minister that commit a horrible act on a child. People choose their own paths....some good and some bad.....and my experience is it something inside the individual. A rotten person is a rotten person with or without god and vice versa.

[–] EpicalypseAfter 9 years ago

fdog9 completely misunderstood the poster's comment

i don't think that person is talking about a man made religion

just the notion of spirituality, the cosmos, deity, reason for being, etc...

these things are way too sacred to be translated into doctrine

but it would be, at least, a little contradictory given that an atheist wouldn't believe in a god or a soul and a reason for being, yet believes in love?

because wouldn't love be to procreation, what God is to life for an atheist? just a mirage, an illusion... love doesn't exist, that's just your hormones acting out, right?

or maybe atheists are as much of a contradiction than theists

[–] lca-blog 10 years ago

Claims about an after life is more claims about the unknown. I tend to leave 'unknowns' open, rather than fill them with speculation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is Agnosticism though..

If someone gives a reasonable explanation of the after life, then perhaps I will change my mind. So far it hasn't been done, or even seriously attempted.

Well, there are research by scientists being conducted and some are even conclusive that conscience continues even when someone is dead. A quick google search comes with this: http://brainblogger.com/2014/10/19/life-after-death-the-science-of-near-death-experiences/
I have read another article from a reputable scientist that claims awareness is there after death and it elaborates it even further. Sorry but I can't find it, nor have the time to look for it now. So, yes, research is being done.

I'd also like to talk a bit about the Hawkings theory that there is no God a little bit.

The issue with Steven Hawkings book 'The Grand Design' is that it goes on and explains a lot of very interesting things in a rational order, but ends with an irrational conclusion (that is not even related to what the book discussed). I think he is wrong about God not creating the universe. I understand here it is a matter of opinion. In his new book, Hawking claims that the reason the universe needs no creator is due to a "new theory" called M-theory (where "M" stands for "membrane," or just "m," or "murky" or "missing", depending upon one's particular version of the theory). Originally promoted as "superstring" theory 20 years ago, it has evolved from "strings" to "membranes," although all forms of the theory propose extra dimensions (11, in fact). However, M-theory is no single theory, but, rather, a number of theories through which one may obtain just about anything one wants. How one can test such a nebulous set of theories, which "predict" just about anything and everything, seems to be a problem.

According to Stephen Hawking, "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist." However, neither gravity nor any other law of physics provides a mechanism by which universe can be spontaneously created. The question Hawking never answered was why those laws of physics exist? Although it is possible for things such as particles to pop into existence from "nothing," it has never been shown that non-quantum-sized objects can perform such feats. Even if it were possible, why would it be expected that such laws of physics would exist that universes to be created from nothing? Why wouldn't a true nothing consist of no laws of physics and no possibility of anything popping into existence?

[–] iKnowFilm 10 years ago

That link is kind of pointless. It shows the references as a bunch of people...what are their qualifications? Anyone can do a "quick google search" and stumble upon I'mRight.com

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] bobbobbob123 10 years ago

However, neither gravity nor any other law of physics provides a mechanism by which universe can be spontaneously created.

However, neither the Bible nor any other religion provides a mechanism by which universe can be spontaneously created.

Really, I don't mean to been mean, but seriously, how dumb does all this sound? Stephen Hawking can't provide a means of creation.... < shrug, hands up > I guess Baby Jesus did it. No need to investigate further!

[–] OneInAZillion 10 years ago

Are you implying that atheists are emotional 'rocks'?

[–] jd_wills 10 years ago

What a pointless, insensitive, incredibly narrow minded, immoral post. Love is an emotion (not confined to humans either).

So one can't love someone if they don't believe in imaginary men in the sky?

Knowing that a chance of an afterlife is incredibly slim, and makes one sometimes value the life they have now, ever more important. Therefore wouldn't love become more important?

And in that sense love actually becomes more genuine as you love that person in the now and here rather than the process of 'oh well they'll be waiting me in some hypothetical paradise'?

Food for thought?

[–] rubens_alves2000 10 years ago

What a pointless, insensitive, incredibly narrow minded, immoral post. Love is an emotion (not confined to humans either).

So one can't love someone if they don't believe in imaginary men in the sky?

I totally agree with you... I am a convinced atheist and I found ridiculous the simple though that if someone doesn't believe in an imaginary friend in the sky, he can't love... It's ridiculous.

[–] jay-fatal 10 years ago

I'm an atheist, and I don't think that there's any difference. We feel love because we feel love, it's inside us and around us, it's not about 'God'.
I just live my life as it is, I think it is even more beautiful without a God, because without the promise of heaven, I want to strive harder to make my life extraordinary.

[–] sedativchunk 10 years ago

I'm not atheist but agnostic, far from a hardcore non-believer but also not devoted to any religion. I peeked at your article you linked about this. This is a huge topic you are asking about, OP. There are many different types of love. Love behind humans and pets, children, and romantic love. Love for having a hobby. And in the end, there is probably no right or wrong answer to what it is.

I don't think this article can sum up personal feeling and love by simply saying it's a hormonal-driven primate instinct to want to be with someone else. I think that is a load of crap, actually. Hormones and primordial instincts have to do with sex, they have a lot to do with it actually. Everyone has a sex drive that they usually can't control. Emotional connection is different and involves the psychological side of a person. I'm not sure it can be put into words as this article is trying to do.