MovieChat Forums > Encanto (2021) Discussion > So one of the message of the film is "Fo...

So one of the message of the film is "Forgive Toxic family members"


Really, am I the only one who did not accept the grandmother regrets and change of heart? Honestly, I was watching and thinking to myself that family was horrible and completely ignored Mirabelle. The grandmother especially was a major b***. Call me pessimist but I would have loved if at the end if Mirabelle realized she did not need that family who neglected her and made her feel so little and just gave them the middle finger to build her own life far away from them haha It wouldn't be very Disney but closer to the truth. I hate those types of messages ! No ! Biological family is not everything , some of us have crappy family and make our own family with our friends. I really do not like the message of the film that basically say embrace the family who made you live in an attic room and excluded you from everything just because... "La Familia" my *ss! lol

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No, the message is "don't let your overbearing grandmother ruin your life because she ruined her own"

Mirabelle healed the family that was broken, if she let her grandmother turn her into a toxic familiy member then her grandomother would have won, because her grandmother always saw Mirabelle as the problem.

Emotional healing is a good thing, if you only harbor hate for your family then you become the toxic family member.

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It wouldn't be very Disney at all, but kind of refreshing if it was that cynical.

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This was very much the message of the film. Her super power was overcoming family toxicity...somehow...even though one of her grandma's own kids was literally locked in a tower for years and kept apart from the rest of the family for no good reason. Also being friends with a living house cause, um, yay to being friends with the house you were treated like garbage in your whole life and not actual people - except for children who don't understand family trauma yet and just think, oh cool a magical house!

I definitely think it would have been a much more satisfying ending if Mirabel left and then either established an amazing life on her own merit, or else discovered her actual power, and her family came to visit her to see her doing well in life without them. Like, does no one realize this is a grown woman living with her family, whose only friends are children - almost none of whom are in her own family? The fact that everything about her that's magical is just her being a nurturer and putting up with bs is kinda sad.

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I don't believe that Mirabel was treated like garbage by her parents or by Luisa or by most of the others.
She did have a sisterly rivalry going on with Isabela, but that got fixed as well during the course of the movie.
Mirabel is hardly a grown woman either, since she's only fifteen years old.

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She's fifteen? Sorry, I honestly missed that, maybe because she dresses like every stereotypical Disney movie high school art teacher I've ever seen.

Regardless, I think she was treated like crap. Abuse isn't always overt and violent, sometimes it's just repeated subtle crappy behaviour over time.

Just imagine: all your siblings and even cousins get these amazing, massive, magic-infused rooms and you live in whatever spare room is left. Like, not one person said, hey let's share a room, since I can fit a jungle in here, two beds won't be an issue. I think that really spoke to the distance in the relationships she had with everyone, and to why she'd only started having conversations within the movie that she probably should've had years before.

Just look at her relationship with her "perfect sister". Her jealousy seems extreme given the fact she should have been one of the few people who already knew that, behind the scenes, things aren't as they appear to others. Like, why have you never talked before now in 15 years?

Oh yeah, because Mirabel was told her whole life to just shut up and stay in her lane of not being special and out of the way of those that are. That didn't stop when the movie ended. Sure, her grandmother admitted to wrong doing, but Mirabel still had to not only win her grandmother over but also get their entire house back and gain magical powers for the rest of the family to truly treat her better. And I mean, what exactly did they do to treat her better? She helped them experience growth, but she didn't herself really receive anything she hadn't had at the start of the movie except the approval of the woman who put her down her whole life. What a gift.

The fact that her only real power was to make a magical house keep being magical (through the power of love or however Disney spun it, I don't think it made total sense) so that she could keep on living with her abusers wasn't all that powerful to me.

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But I must say that even though the Madrigals had their issues, I don't believe that any abuse was going on.
So I feel that the ending works for me.
And again, Mirabel didn't have a bad relationship with most of her family.
As a matter of fact, both of her parents were loving and supportive towards her.
But I must agree that she should have had her own room like everybody else.
However, I don't believe that even Abuela had any control over that.
Then again, Mirabel got a room of her own after Antonio left the nursery.
And I'm sure that she got her own room in the new house.

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Emotional abuse is very clear from the beginning of the movie, Mirabel is clearly very sensitive to not having gotten a power. I believe it was dolores who announced loudly to the children that "Mira didn't get one" which the scene indicates Mirabella overheard.

Also remember how Mirabella was trying to help out and was told to get out of the way

Her grandmother clearly set impossible standards for everyone so no one would ever be good enough and there was fault blaming for her not getting a door / power.

Refusing to admit "sisterly rivalry" is a form of abuse is like claiming "bullying isn't a problem"

We can see how hard Mirabella is trying throughout the whole movie and how she is constantly treated like she is the problem simply because she didn't get a power. The movie is about everyone's character growth.

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Okay, so I guess that we have different views on what abuse is.
It is true that Abuela and Isabela weren't that nice to Mirabel before they redeemed themselves later.
However, that is really nothing compared to what some truly abusive villains in earlier Disney movies would do.
But I must say that it helps that Mirabel's parents were loving and supportive.
Things would have been much worse otherwise.
Mirabel seemed to also have a good relationship with Luisa and with her cousins.
Later on, she also got close to Bruno.

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Since I made some research, I think I now can agree that what Abuela did qualifies as emotional abuse.
That said, it was never bad enough that she couldn't be redeemed.

But I don't think that Mirabel's sisterly rivalry with Isabela qualifies as abuse.
Mirabel was after all more equal with Isabela than with Abuela and could throw insults back at her.

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Mirabel is 15? I thought she was 25 years old young woman. Like a pre-school teacher. She looked like that.

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Yes, she's fifteen.
They never say how old she is in the movie though, so I get that some people wouldn't know that.

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I thought she was 18.

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Bruno did not live in a locked tower, He simply lived in a tower on his own accord. He later decided to start living in the walls.

You're modifying the movie to fit your views, she isn't "friends with the house" due to lacking any human friends, everyone in the family is "friends with the house." You might as well be claiming people who have pets do so because they lack any human friends.

There is nothing satisfying about a selfish and callous main character. You basically think the movie would be better if Mirabella turned into her grandma. Instead Mirabella started healing her family from the toxicity they were all experiencing.

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The tower was unlocked because it was a metaphor for his exile from his family. He could go anywhere, and it was clear in the movie he wanted to be near his family, but he "chose" to be away from them? No. Because in families, power isn't always exerted through physical force, a lot of things go unsaid but show themselves in the actions of the characters. Otherwise, why did he even choose to live with his family if he never wanted to interact with them? The movie conveniently showed Bruno finding the courage to face his abuela only after she had changed her mind about his exile - because facing her beforehand wouldn't have resulted in anything changing.

Also, a lot of people with pets often distrust human connection. However, in this case, who are Mirabel's friends? Where were they in the movie? Know any 15 year olds with no friends, or only 5 year olds for friends? Someone with strained family relationships usually turn to their friends for support, and yet no one in the village seems to know much about her, hence the "What are your powers?" questions. Maybe that speaks more to the isolation she's forced into by her family, but who can say, the movie is vague about it.

There's absolutely some things that are satisfying about selfish and callous characters. But there's not just 2 options for Mirabel - she could've had plenty of different endings. Not all of them have to end in self-sacrificial devotion to family or complete rejection of family - there's plenty of middle ground there. But what sucks about all this is that it shouldn't have been her job to heal her family, especially after how she was treated by them. It's very strange messaging imo.

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I see, you lost your childhood mind and are being way too political to see the movie as it intends to be seen.

So you are shoving your ideas into the movie rather than seeing the movie as it is... There is a tower in the movie so it is now a metaphor and Bruno is clearly locked in it because it is a metaphor to fit your viewpoints.

My point wasn't that mirabel had friends, but you're trying to make mirabel's friendship with her pet house seem utra desparate without any real evidence. Yes she didn't have any other friends, but you're forcing this whole pathetic nature onto mirabel.

You personally find ugly movies satisfying, likely since you lost your childhood mind... it seems your complaint is that you're too old to understand why children love the movie.

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You're the one shoe-horning your perception of what you think I said onto what I actually said without even addressing anything I mentioned. In other words, you're the one doing what you say I'm doing.

Forget the very obvious metaphor behind the tower. The movie itself shows how Bruno didn't choose to go there. He clearly wanted to be close to his family; him moving around in the walls is entirely based on his loneliness and wanting to be near everyone. His "choice" to never interact with them outside of the few moments he's shown with Mirabel is clearly not much of a choice and doesn't make any sense, and Mirabel's attempts to speak him are viewed as rebellion - even her own father is scared to tell her why she can't talk to her uncle.

As for Mirabel, I'm not making the point that being friends with the house is bad. I'm stating that the 3 main traits that are positively correlated to Mirabel and are almost established as her superpowers are:

Her friendship with children
Her friendship with the house
Her ability to bring the family together via her listening skills.

There are all motherly, nurturing traits, which in themselves are not negative. However, the fact is everything "magical" about her works to bring about the happiness of others, with no real thought for her own happiness or her harm, and those others are mostly people who treat her badly or whom she does not get along with that well.

I don't even know what you mean by finding ugly movies satisfying. I'm both satisfied and dissatisfied by many movies, most of which I wouldn't call ugly since most movies are visually appealing. Also don't know any children who love the movie, although of course I wouldn't be surprised by any who did, as it's quite visually spectacular, the music is fun and there's magic.

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Actually, the message of the movie was "It's so HARD to be part of the elite!".

I'm not joking, that was the story at the heart of the film. That being part of the elite that has powers the rest of the villagers do not means responsibility and no chance to be yourself, and that the worst thing that can happen is that a couple of family members don't measure and are excluded. And at the "happy ending" the elites let the non-elites rebuild their house and get their powers back, and concluded that from now on, they'd concentrate on making themselves happy and worry less about their responsibilities to the non-elites.

This movie is beautiful, it had great animation, a likable heroine, and a unique colorful look, but I hated it it. It should have ended with the loss of powers and being accepted as equals by the community, but the dirtbag Hollywood suits who make these decisions seem to think that happiness is being elite and selfish.

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So you don't believe that you can be unhappy even though you belong to an "elite"?

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Of course I do! Elites are just as capable of being unhappy about anyone else, although they tenf to be unhappy about things like relationships or stresses or things that aren't life-threatening. If you're elite, you're not worried about being unable to afford enough insulin to stay alive, you know?

So yes, I'm perfect aware that elites can be unhappy, I just save my sympathy for the people with real problems.

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I'm sorry, but it's not up to you to decide what a "real problem" is.

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But it is up to me to decide who deserves my sympathy. And you, and everyone.

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Yep. Movie message was so confusing. We had to root for selfish elite people to stay in power. I wished for them to lose all power and become ordinary. And live in small house like everyone else.

But nope. Magic powers returned.

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But how are the Madrigals selfish?
They were on the contrary forced to work for the community until at least Bruno and Luisa suffered mentally.
And as for Isabela, she was even prepared to enter a marriage against her own personal wishes!
So she could let Mirabel call her an entitled princess, but she wouldn't let her call her selfish...

Also, you have to remember that both the house and the magic powers were gifts from a miracle.
It is not like the Madrigals were in control of whether they had them or not or of if they would come back.
One theory is that these gifts somehow came from Pedro.
And if that is the case, it would be so unfair if they didn't get their gifts from their late father/grandfather back.

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I know I am a few years late here, but I got around to finally watch "Coco" with my niece.
Obviously, it is very easy to make comparisons to "Encanto" as they tell notably similar Latin American stories.
And I started to think about how much they both focus on "la familia".
And I don't mean just parents and siblings here, but it's the grandparents, uncles, aunts and cousins as well.
To a person from an Occidental country, this might feel over the top or even alien.
As I happen to come from Sweden and belong to a culture with smaller less tight-knit family units, I do get that.
But I started to think about this thread and how nobody has brought up this aspect:
People from a less family-based culture might sneer at this story and say something like "la familia, my *ss".
But obviously, that is not what a sweet Colombian girl like Mirabel would do even if her grandmother is wrong.
Even if she has to give Abuela an angry speech, she has to mention her love for her family in the same breath.
It is only natural I guess to act that way when you grow up in a big extended family household.
It makes you feel a duty to protect everybody in the house.
And obviously, leaving the family simply never is an option for Mirabel.
She's now fully aware of how Bruno was smeared and knows that it didn't lead to anything good.
Even after she disappears over the night, she returns the next day and helps the family rebuild their home.

It is kind of the same thing, that we can see in "Coco".
Miguel grows up in a tight-knit Latin American extended family household too.
But he got angry enough to say that he didn't care about the ofrenda and didn't want to be a part of his family.
Which made his whole family gasp in horror just to show us how taboo this must be in Mexico.
And still, Miguel is later on prepared to (try to) give up his dreams of becoming a musician to return to his family.
I don't believe that he could have stopped playing music, and that is fortunately not how the story ends either.
However, it is clear that the message is that he would become unhappy if he hadn't embraced his family.
And we can see in "Encanto" what happens if you truly become a "black sheep" in a Latin American country.
Bruno clearly had a strained relationship with his family, but he still loved them and didn't want to leave them.
He didn't go into hiding before he thought that he had to do so to protect Mirabel from his mother's wrath.
It is clear though that him leaving his family without an explanation turned most of the community against him.
For it looks like you can't do that in a small town in Colombia without suffering the consequences for it.
People must have felt bad though when they realized that Bruno only did it as a sacrifice for his little niece...

Hector in "Coco" is another example of what happens if you disappear from your family without an explanation.
Your name will be smeared until most people no longer know the truth about who you really are/were.
And in "Coco", you die a second death when the last person who remembers you dies or forgets about you.
It is true that the outcasts can stick together as friends while they wait for their last moments to come.
But still, you don't really want that final death to happen to you if you can help it.
And in the end, Miguel managed to save himself and Hector from that fate by healing the family.
But it was a close call with Hector, since Coco had become senile and was losing her memories of him...
"Encanto" decided to deal with the same issue in a slightly more subtle way.
But we can see how Julieta refers to her brother Bruno disappearing as him losing "his way in this family".
This is yet again clearly a culture, where you're expected to belong to a family and never leave it.
And now, Julieta is really scared that her daughter Mirabel might be the next Madrigal to become an outcast...
It is admittedly later shown that living as a hermit for ten years hasn't been too good mentally for Bruno.
However, you can tell that he couldn't leave his family entirely and start a new life away from them.
Bruno had to be lonely and unhappy or return to them, with no third option available for him.
Luckily, they want him back as soon as they see him again and show him that they have missed him.
Abuela and Pepa had been angry with Bruno, but it was because they were hurt by his "disappearance".
They believed that he didn't care about them and were just happy to be proven wrong.
And I just love that there still were pictures of Bruno on display in at least three different places.
As much as his family didn't talk about him, that is proof that that they had never stopped wanting him to return.
Hector in "Coco" wasn't even given that much until his daughter revealed that she had kept a photo of him...

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(Continued...)

That said, it is notable that both Mirabel and Miguel feel like they're outsiders within their own families.
It is often the "odd ones", who will become protagonists since they make things happen and get a story to tell.
But also, they have to show the rest of the family that they need a change too and must stop their toxic behavior.
It is not like the writers behind these stories deny that every individual has their own needs and dreams.
So they won't tell us that your family should control your life and make all your decisions for you.
Miguel in "Coco" is allowed to become a musician after all when Imelda finally relents.
And seriously, that boy is a prodigy and couldn't and shouldn't have to live without music anyway.
Thus, they had to let him embrace his talents or watch him become very unhappy in the future.
And in "Encanto", it is finally possible for Mirabel's sisters to stop pleasing other people all the time.
Luisa can be strong and still relax sometimes, and Isabela won't have to marry a man that she doesn't want.
However, it is clear that the characters won't get a happy ending by rejecting their families.
So I guess that the message is that you must find a balance between being yourself and honoring "la familia"?
But also, it is important for the matriarchs to realize their mistakes and learn to love the kids unconditionally.
And as for Mirabel, I don't believe that she ever asked for more than feeling that she belongs in her family.
Or as she puts it when she talks to Bruno about it: her goal is to make her family proud of her just once!
And gradually, it is revealed that she's the one to get everybody else to talk to her and make them start healing.
She happens to also be the one to bring the magic back and most likely is their next leader.
That is her role and her future, and we can tell that she's only happy to take on that responsibility.
She is after all the girl, who decides to risk her life to try to save the candle.
She has no personal gain to get from that since she has no magic gift, but does it anyway for her family...

Besides, it is not like my points from my previous posts don't still stand.
Mirabel doesn't have problems with any family members except for Isabela and Abuela.
So I don't see how her rejecting especially her parents and Luisa and Antonio would have been fair.
They love her even if the family is dysfunctional.
And also, we should remember that Mirabel is only fifteen years old.
So as much as she can be wise beyond her years, I don't feel that she should have to make it on her own yet.
Besides, I don't see where she could have gone when the encanto was isolated from the rest of the world.
Remember that Bruno who was forty years old didn't get further than hiding behind the walls in his family home.
It is true that we don't know if he tried to climb the mountains and failed or if he never even tried.
However, it is clear that there were many reasons why leaving your family was almost impossible in "Encanto".
Besides, Mirabel had to stay and heal her family and make even Isabela and Abuela talk and accept her again.
How would that have happened if she had left?
So again, there are plenty of reasons why the characters in "Encanto" have to stay where they are.
But we must realize that "la familia" clearly is very important in Latin America.
Really, you can see that Bruno was stopped by the mountains from leaving the encanto as a metaphor.
It is like his love for his family and their love for him were mountains, which protected him from harm...
Miguel in "Coco" is only twelve years old and even younger than Mirabel, but takes on a similar role as she does.
So he must not only save Hector, but he must also heal his family and stop their toxic behavior.
That is why he's not allowed to reject them despite his understandable anger with them earlier in the story...

Now, I have to point out that I can't fully get the Latin American concept of "la familia" either.
Especially, it is hard for me to understand why Miguel in "Coco" is prepared to (try to) give up music.
It is clearly presented within the story as honorable and heart-warming.
But I can only think "how will you being unhappy to please your toxic great-great-grandmother be a good thing?"
However, it is clear that calling an ofrenda stupid and saying that you don't want your family is terrible in Mexico.
So I guess that this was deemed necessary because Miguel had to learn a lesson about honoring his family.
Which makes no sense to me, but I can only be glad that Imelda relented and blessed Miguel without conditions.
And in "Encanto", it is made clear that "la familia" is equally important in Colombia.
So it makes sense that the characters in these stories do things, which might feel weird to me and you...

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I saw a different message. That was an unhappy family. Most of them (Isabela, Luisa, Bruno, Dolores and Pepa) were trying to live up to other people's expectations. Mirabel was the one who turned things around for them and allowed them to live the lives they really wanted. People in the community also got a chance to give back after being the ones to profit from the family's magic for so many years.

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I agree, but I must point out that forgiveness also is an important theme in the story.
So that is what the OP had problems with.

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Forgiveness is a big part of Christianity. Many Catholic Hispanics keep a continuously lighted candle in a closet similar to the candle in the movie. Underlying Christian values, I guess.

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I just want to point out that most of the people who want to cut off "toxic family members", supposedly to preserve their own mental health, are in fact toxic themselves.

I call it "The weaponization of mental health".

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That is very much true.
It is like you sometimes learn too much from people, whom you don't want to resemble at all.

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