MovieChat Forums > Predestination (2015) Discussion > Closed loop with no entry point?

Closed loop with no entry point?


Kind an interesting demonstration of a paradox. I'm kind of left wondering how "John" actually became an agent in the first place. It would seem like there would need to be a point where the Time Police would know who he was, unless they were in the business of just accepting any random person who teleported in from another time zone.

Also it seems like a problem when older and younger John teleport to the future together. Clearly they recognized the older John, wouldn't they also recognize the younger John when he came back as well? Wouldn't that represent -- at least in that timeline -- some kind of problem?

I guess I can see how "making" agents this way (as self-contained historical loops) might be to the Time Police's advantage, it also seems like there would need to be some kind of causal entry point where the loop could be kicked off -- like if stealing Jane's baby wasn't something the older John did, but something the Time Police did to create the time loop.

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spoilers! the thing is, that it is a boot strap paradox. when this film came out, there has been pages over pages of discussions in regards to that subject matter. unfortunately this renders the whole film utterly redundant.

nevertheless that's not even bothering me that much. it is rather that:

- the title sums up the whole film, which is quite the opposite of clever, which this clearly tries to be
- they had to went through such ridiculous streches to make the whole thing kinda work, if you are insisting to overlook all the logical flaws contained in it
- it becomes so clear that the writer did not have a fully worked out concept in mind before writing, but rather started with the idea of creating the paradox and then wrote his way from the conclusion back to the beginning, trying so hard to make it work, more or less fixing inconsistencies again and again and again, until he thought he had a tight storyline, but instead ended up with this insult, while other films like "triangle" and "time crimes" made the whole thing work without having to use gimmick after gimmick to explain yet another flaw
- in that context, the worst thing about it was the judgification of the most ridiculous flaw (him fucking his former self e.g.) with the pathetic excuse of "time travel messes with your mind"
- they even willingly left one of the biggest flaws in. it's been a while since i have seen it, but it was along the lines of "hey, we could not save your uterus, so we gave you a pretty dick"

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Here's how I reacted to those same points:

1. The title HINTS at the paradox at the heart of the movie. I saw no problem with that.

2. You didn't mention a stretch or flaw, so I can't react to that.

3. DO you mean the writer Heinlein or the Spierigs? I haven't read the short story, but the movie embellishes its core concept. I had no problem with the concepts, as this was, for me, new territory with new rules.

4. Self-fucking is explained in the "Making Of" featurette. They describe the process as "falling in love with your former self" by someone who has evolved or been otherwise formed into a new being.

5. I bought the "We'll give you a dick" idea in that my perception of government agencies is unbounded arrogance. They feel they own us now, so in the future, that would just be worse.

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1. I think the agent was "made" when she failed SpaceCorp. That was also a weeding process to find disgruntled people who could be turned into agents.

2. Yes, they recognized both Johns in the future. The "Hawke" John's mission was to bring Jane/John back for further training and indoc.

3. "Hawke" John did steal the baby. Leaving it with Jane would change the future, which was punishable by death, and Jane had to be alone in order to be turned into an agent.

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The paradox with time travel movies is that they never make sense, but we always like them.

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basically this. I don't think it's possible for the story to make sense, but it's fun to explore the ideas anyway.

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Absolutely. It's one of my very favourite time travel movies.

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