MovieChat Forums > Hemlock Grove (2013) Discussion > EXTREME gay subtext with Roman.

EXTREME gay subtext with Roman.

posted 10 years ago by Cat_Eyes200
36 replies | jump to latest

Why can't they just make at least Roman gay or something? Because they go to these extreme lengths to have all of this crazy gay subtext. Notice Roman's raging mad drive when he yells about Peter banging his cousin, as soon as he yells "F*GGOT!", he arrives at the big dick-shaped building. Then Roman tries to bang a prostitute, decides against it then eats her male pimp while porn is playing of a guy screwing a chick haaard. Then there's all this rage at how Peter about how he abandoned him, their mutual knack for aiming for the same girls (Jules et Jim). It's like insane how thick they lay it on us that Roman is a really angry repressed homosexual but you know they don't have the nerve to actually make him, you know, gay maybe?! It's ridiculous. I'm so sick of Roman tearing his way through all these girls and being a pr*ck, why can't they just have him come out?

[–] Darko-Magick 10 years ago

LMFAO. You maybe onto something here...

[–] rendrag-2 10 years ago

Oh for fnck sakes. Talk about trying way too hard to find "subtext".
There does not have to be a gay character on every god damn show. Leave it alone already.

I thought it was great that I had more patience. Turns out... I just don't give a sh!t

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] frozenorchids 10 years ago

doesn't have to be straight characters on every goddamn show either

[–] R_Kane (15828) 6 years ago

Yeah, there do. Current studies show that roughly 3.8 percent of the human race is homosexual.

[–] Darko-Magick 10 years ago

Just came across this...

http://uinterview.com/news/bill-skarsgard-and-landon-liboiron-on-their-hemlock-grove-characters-sexual-tension-gay-undertones-exclusive-video-12211

[–] Cobra1986 10 years ago

Peter & Roman have always been drawn to each other ever since they first met, whether it's sexual or not is just one of those mysteries. It would surely come from Roman first though if that was the case. Peter is more likely to bottle up emotions since he's a bit more introverted.

[–] Queenshiq 10 years ago

Can't he be bi?

I'll say he goes both ways.

[–] Darko-Magick 10 years ago

Could be interesting I suppose. Though I doubt they'll take it anywhere, keep in mind Eli Roth is the executive producer of the show. He seems a tad anti-gay, not necessarily a homophobe, just wouldn't be all that open to the idea.

[–] TeaFiend 10 years ago

I've just finished watching episode 6 and unless I'm reading it wrong it seemed to imply that they (Miranda, Peter and Roman) were all going upstairs for a threesome. I was like, "Really? Sweet!". So unless it reveals that it's not the case next episode (which would be disappointing) it seems they sort of have gone there with the bisexual/gay thing. In any case, I doubt Roth will care, producers will generally support whatever sells. Plus there was that lesbian scene in season 1 between Destiny and Clementine.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] Darko-Magick 10 years ago

Actually, thinking back to that scene now. They did more than imply that Peter and Roman had sexually interacted with each other. I guess I wasn't paying much attention at the time. They're obviously bisexual, but I guess we'll have to wait and see where they decide to take their relationship. I suspect it could go either way, often times they both have a love/hate thing going on. Plus how many fans would want to see them two actually go all the way?

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] Cat_Eyes200 10 years ago

But here's the thing (and I'm not trying to be sassy with you) this is a show that boldly challenges viewer alienation by depicting many of its main characters murdering in cold blood. It's shown families being massacred, babies having their necks snapped, guts, blood, flesh-eating, bleeding out, mutilated bodies....but a character being gay is something to hide from all of a sudden? Why? They actually had a little girl say "So this must be what it feels like to come!" while losing her soul. Lesbians on the show are pretty overt. Clementine banged Destiny, that lesbian teacher in the pilot was shown to have had a relationship with a female student.

And this isn't an issue of "Oh why can't men be close friends w/o being gay?" because the lines Roman has about Peter leaving him & the pain that caused are soooo romantic. If it were women it would still be lesbatronic to the max. It's outdone Xena and Gabrielle!

I say, Roman is gay and Peter is bi. Roman devalues connections with women, he uses them, the sex is superficial and self-centered. But bring Peter in the mix? Hoooo-eeee, he's an over-flowing well of sentiment.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] Darko-Magick 10 years ago

I completely agree with you! I also think Roman is gay or bi at the very least. Peter, I feel is open to new experiences. Basically, he likes who he likes. So I guess that would make he bisexual too. They both had no hesitation whatsoever when it come down to having that threesome together!

However, as sweetsurrender121 pointed out. Having over the top gore and violence is one thing, but having two main characters that are MALE share certain sexual encounters is a tricky situation. This could alienate some of the fan base who aren't comfortable with seeing two people of the same sex have a deep sexual connection. Clementine having an encounter with Destiny is completely different, because people are so used to seeing two women together. But two men is just too much for some people. Women are still objectified in a way that men aren't. Although the world has become a lot more tolerant (hate that word) a lot of people are still close-minded unfortunately.

I'm hoping the next season they'll become more bold and daring. In one sense if they do decide to go down that road with Roman and Peter, they'd attract a bigger gay following. So it wouldn't be such a big deal if they ended up losing some original fans of the show. If there's one show that can take risks, it's Hemlock Grove! Especially if they want to keep pushing the boundaries of a tv show.

If they were to drop the sexual tension completely, that would look like a complete cop out at this point. All this tension has to lead somewhere though, else it just becomes extremely monotonous. If season 3 get's picked up and they show nothing, no character development between the two guys...what's the point?!

[–] Darko-Magick 10 years ago

I agree, subtle implications through conversations works well sometimes. There isn't always a need to show anything and everything all the time, lowers the tone of the show in some ways.

However, I do think if they're going to keep pushing this idea through dialogue and long brooding type stares here and there. They should show some sort of sexual interaction between the characters. I think it's needed for their character development. If season 3 is greenlit, this needs to happen.

That True Blood scene between Eric and Jason was rather gratuitous. It was just an excuse for some attention! The scene itself wasn't even all that sexy. They both seemed stiff (no pun intended) and awkward.

If they do decide to have Roman and Peter interact sexually, it's got to be for a good reason and to be shot a lot better than that True Blood scene.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] TeaFiend 10 years ago

Cheers for that. I'll have a read of the article :)

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] Darko-Magick 10 years ago

My problem with Eli Roth is based upon most of his movie characters, which often times seem to be homophobic in nature. And given the fact he writes most of the scripts himself, it does make him look somewhat of a homophobe. It's the language he chooses to use that often times bothers me. He has defended himself during interviews on a couple of occasions, stating it's how the younger generation interact with each other these days. But I say that's just a cop out. If you ask me he is just perpetuating that idea, which sucks. Of course he'd have no problem with lesbian scenes going down on the show, you just have to look at his own movies to see how he objectifies women.

You could be right about the producers supporting whatever sells. But that lesbian scene between Destiny and Clementine in season one was so short, blink at you'd miss it. Lesbian interactions might sell well, but do two guys sexually interacting sell well...I'm not completely sold just yet. It would create buzz and get some attention that the show so desperately needs at this point, but as for adding new fans...I'm not so sure. Though saying that, it would make a lot of gay guys start to tune in. I'm just not sure.

[–] Cobra1986 10 years ago

Don't agree with you at all. Eli wrote the character of Josh in Hostel as a gay man in the closet. he flat out says it in the commentaries that the character is gay. and not only that...he was easily the most sympathetic character in the movie.
Sorry, but Eli does use that language because that is how a lot of people talk. Same thing with Quentin Tarantino, another filmmaker who uses a lot of controversial language, but it serves it's purpose and it's there for a reason.

Eli is not homophobic at all.

[–] Darko-Magick 10 years ago

I don't necessarily believe Roth is an all out homophobe. In fact, I don't think he is homophobic at all in his own personal life. It's just sometimes in his writing style and the characters he develops can come across like that. Yeah, I mean it's fair to say a lot of people do use that type of language, that doesn't mean to say it's right. Also, a lot of the time I just feel it's unnecessarily abrasive for the sake of it. If he was to use these slurs more sporadically, I wouldn't care all the much to be honest. But every other word seems to be fag or gay with him.

Quentin Tarantino may use a lot of controversial language but in a more intellectual, sophisticated way. Not so on the nose. More highbrow I would say.

I think both guys are talented, more so Tarantino for obvious reasons. But Roth has his moments too. I'm not the only person who has picked up on the language he continuously uses. There has been plenty of articles on the subject.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] Darko-Magick 10 years ago

Obviously! Lol. No, of course not. As I said above, I don't think Roth is a homophobe when it comes down to his personal life. It's just the language that he chooses to use within his movies that bothers me. Do I think he might use some of that language in his own personal life? Sure, he might. But at the same time he might not. It's just a vibe I get from him. I'm not saying you don't have a valid point btw, because you do. Others have said the same thing about him.

[–] jellyree 10 years ago

Inexplicably, you seem very interested in this subject.

[–] king_of_bob 10 years ago

I see no homoseuxal overtones to the character. The subtext you speak of doesn't actually exist. You're ignoring major parts of the scenes in question, the only reason for which is to apply a homosexual slant that doesn't need to be there.

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

[–] ginda2000 10 years ago

I see no homoseuxal overtones to the character. The subtext you speak of doesn't actually exist. You're ignoring major parts of the scenes in question, the only reason for which is to apply a homosexual slant that doesn't need to be there.

This isn't true. As other posters have included, the actors have even spoken about the undertones between Peter and Roman with this particular subject.

To be honest, when I watched the first few episodes of Season 1 last year, I was certain Roman was a gay character and knowing nothing of the book or story, thought it looked to be panning out to be some kind of Brokeback Mountain story about a human and a werewolf! Although, I sussed out quite early on that Roman was unearthly too. By mid-way through season 1 I had completely forgotten about the initial gay undertones and guessed it was just their friendship.

However, in Season 2 it was very clearly implied to the audience that when Roman, Peter and Miranda had the threesome, there was also sexual interaction between the two men. This was purveyed by the dialogue in the kitchen the following morning and Miranda believing the two men were now feeling uncomfortable with each other. In actual fact, they weren't - they were feeling uncomfortable about Miranda's dream (she got the wrong idea from their behavior when she was speaking). In reality, the two guys were not bothered at all about the sex and immediately went on with the matters in hand.

I had actually expected the threesome to lead to a much broader plot device as to the three characters in some kind of 'set-up' with the baby. The fact nothing else came of it (during the season), makes me think the writers needed to actually include some kind of sexual interaction between Roman and Peter for plot devices later on. If they hadn't included something when they did, the audiences would react badly if such a storyline was opened up. I don't think they will turn into a conventional 'gay' couple by any means, but I think the sexual ambiguity of their relationship is crucial for this particular series, because there needs to be a solid device that would keep those two characters emotionally attached to each other.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] Slone_Karu 10 years ago

I have to say I agree with the gay undertones.

Right off from the beginning it seemed Roman was quite attached to Peter and for the longest time I could figure out who he was jealous over, Peter or Letha. I think it really hit home on the last episode when Olivia asked what he needed and Romans answer was Peter.

Also his hurt and decline into brooding mode at the beginning of season 2 seemed to be alot about Peter, although obviously not all about it as Shelley was missing, Olivia was causing problems, the baby and dealing with his new hunger would all be factors. I can't help but think he would have coped better with Peter.

As for the threesome sex scene, I think it was not shown for a reason. Both Roman and Peter are shown in sex scenes before but I think this is left to the imagination if the viewer perhaps because the writers aren't entirely sure where they are taking the relationship or maybe something like the confirmation of Norman being Romans father it's hinted at but not confirmed until later. This of course I am talking about if Roman and Peter engaged in sex with each other in the threesome or if they just happened to both be present for Miranda.

It can be read both ways from the morning after scene. They are just uncomfortable with each other after seeing each other in such an intimate way but then I guess Roman watching Peter change is quite intimate. Or perhaps they are uneasy because something happened between then.

Honestly I just want to see more of there friendship and relationship. It would be quite interesting to find out that they have no other interesting in other men but the relationship between then is so strong that they love each other anyway and it's not men that they are interested in but just a single man.

"I came here to drink Milk & Kick-arse. I've finished my Milk!"

[–] RandomNJ 10 years ago

Why everybody has to be either gay or straight? I think bisexuality is more common than everybody think it is.. It fits with a situation when it may take someone to come along to reveal it. It's hard to imagine someone so wild and spoiled like Roman would not be engaging in homo sex since early experimenting days if that was what he craved. I don't understand this notion of somebody suddenly realizing he is gay on their 20s but I quite believe bisexuality could go like that. He enjoys sex with women and he doesn't seem the type that gets repressed by anything. Now, I agree with you that he got it bad for Peter. I wouldn't buy the repressed gay storyline but I am betting on the bisexuality option. In season 1 this seemed more one sided but I felt like season 2 had Peter getting there. I hope they go for it. I'm tired of the old gay or straight only pairings. Somebody please mix it for a change.

[–] Cinnamilk 10 years ago

I'm not sure if it has anything to do with Roman being gay/bi or not, but at the very least he has an adoration for Peter that is borderline obsessive. At least where Peter's wolf self was concerned, he described Peter changing from wolf to human as *beep* beautiful", when Peter called Roman while he was getting his "procedure" done the photo was of a black wolf possibly Peter, and his bed sheets went from normal in season one to being made of black fake fur in season two (not sure if anyone else noticed).