MovieChat Forums > Melancholia (2011) Discussion > Wait, what? Kiefer Sutherland's Characte...

Wait, what? Kiefer Sutherland's Character (Spoilers warning)


(DON'T READ UNLESS YOU HAVE ALREADY VIEWED THE FILM AS THIS CONTAINS SPOILERS, BUT IF YOU ARE READING THIS AND HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE YOU'LL PROBABLY HAVE SEEN THE SPOILERS BELOW AND IT IS ALREADY TO LATE. IF THAT IS THE CASE--WOULD YOU LIKE A CUP OF TEA?)

Alrighty, so I just finished viewing the film and I am wondering why John, Claire's husband, decided all out of the blue like to kill himself? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but was this not kind, oh I don't know, completely freaking out of character? I don't get why he'd just decide that was what he was going to do when he had a wife and son he rather seemed to care for. He didn't really seem like the cowardly type to me, until you know, he was dead.
Hope you who haven't seen the movie took my spoiler warning and didn't ruin it for yourselves. I did, after all, forewarn.

This ain't my first tea party...

reply

I think John (the Kiefer Sutherland character) was some kind of patriarchal figure in the film who was protective of his family and wanted to show that he was always in control. Contrary to what some posters said, I don't think he knew the collision was coming until the morning after the supposed "flyover" of the planet, and that was why he suddenly looked so upset and did not acknowledge what his wife said. The film left quite some ambiguity because we never see how the other people reacted to the threat – we see no one outside the family in the second half of the film. Was John a renowned scientist or just an amateur astronomer? Did scientists generally predict a collision (as suggested by the Wikipedia article) and John just decided to delude himself? We don’t really know for certain, and that is one thing missing from the script.

Some posters suggested John freaked out at the end, but oddly a suicide in that situation could be John's way of showing that he was still in control. He wanted to show that he still could determine the time and manner of his own death rather than wait for everything to occur naturally. However, before that he was seen to be protective and caring towards his wife and son, and to me his suicide did not seem to be consistent with his character as seen from the film.

I think everyone here has overlooked that the main purpose of John's suicide is that the script wanted to get rid of him before the final scene. The film wanted the two sisters to be alone in order to bring out the difference in their reactions to the impending impact, and so did not want them to be upstaged by the husband's constant blabbering. It was rather odd, however, that neither Justine nor the son noticed his absence, and the script did leave many things unanswered about his character.

reply

[deleted]

It's pretty simple why he killed off this character. Lars is a nihilist. While he movie may have shown a "beautiful" example of the depressive mind (many positive comments from those that suffer from it on these boards) in this movie, the scientist is an example of his actual world view. A scientist can't possibly have the answer. A person of reason needs to be killed off and shown as a coward. In the film, whether Keifer new Melancholia would hit the earth or not, he represented something outside the film; a person who acts in a (mostly) logical and normal way.

Who better to kill off and reveal as the weakest character than that? Don't forget that Lars is creating this world/ movie and he can portray to you the character any way he likes. That's why the confusion on this board - in the real world most of us live in, a character like this wouldn't commit suicide, he would stand by his family. Lars can't have that - faith, reason, science, love nothing offers him any hope and that's going to be reflected in his films.

Have you seen any of his films? He creates these worlds for his artistic benefit, and he can certainly destroy them.

reply

I agree. And Kiefer's character also represented optimism in the film. And Lars wanted to depict optimism as utterly useless and as a state of delusion.

reply

I think in this situation killing oneself is the only way to overcome despair, which is a truly unbearable feeling, especially for the rational type the husband represented.

If the husband had lived he would have to spend his last hours pretending to be strong for his family. But he wasn't - and that's not bad or wrong in anyway. Should we spend our last moments on earth participating in some charade of what it means to be human?

reply

It seemed pretty obvious to me.

He believed by his calculations that Melancholia would just be a fly-by. That's why he was so calm about it and told everyone to relax. And he was worried about Claire getting paranoid before when he saw that she brought the pills, thinking that she'd commit suicide because of something that would turn out to be no more than a close call.

It was only the day after the initial fly-by that we see his character completely changed because he's realised that his calculations were wrong and that there was going to be a collision. That's when he disappeared and took all the pills and laid in the stables to die.

It may be an instant death when two planets collide but you don't know for sure. You don't know exactly what happens or how long it takes so John had given up and didn't want to spend the remaining hours just sat there with his family waiting for their impending death.

I don't have a wife and kids so I can't speak for someone in his position, but if I knew the world was going to end, I'd do the same. Or at the very least, get as intoxicated as possible. *beep* waiting for that s**t to happen sober.

reply

His suicide was definitely out of whack. It's pretty obvious in several scenes that John has genuine love and concern for his wife and son. So to then have him polish off the entire bottle of pills (that he knew his wife had kept to avoid a painful death) was completely out of character. It was a very contrived way to create irony. It was the one and only real jarring moment in the film.

reply

He got sick of his wife's constant bi*ching. J/K Most cowardly act by any character in the movie. Even weaker than the 'gormless' husband.

reply

What I took from it..and of course I could be wrong......is that it's the one's who seem to show the most strength outwardly are the ones who are sometimes hurting the most inside behind the facade..or vice versa, those who are outwardly falling apart have some deeper inner strength to be able of keep trying to go on....

reply

He kills himself out of shame and humiliation, because he was wrong and his comforting words turned out to be hollow. Rather than admit this he takes the cowards way out and deprives his wife and child the suicide pills for a swift and painless death.

An interesting moment occurs earlier in the film when he is preparing survival provisions with the butler. Justine sees this and John tells her not to tell Claire, it’ll only worry her. This suggests that John isn’t as certain as he makes out that ‘there’s nothing to worry about’.

I think he genuinely believes everything will be fine but is taking precautions in case Melancholia creates power cuts or other minor disruptions to normal life. His fatal flaw is putting too much faith in the wrong scientists.

What people haven’t really touched on here, though, is Von Trier’s motivations for portraying John in such an unsympathetic light. While Lars is a brilliant writer-director, he’s prone to simplistic political thinking, and has a deep envy and resentment of successful capitalists. So he portrays John, the wealthy family man who has it all, as secretly hollow and selfish. In short, Lars wants you to hate successful, happy men - that’s why he portrays John the way he does.

Von Trier is a twisted genius and his films are essential viewing, but I see a tension in his work - he is a sophisticated and perceptive mind trapped inside socialist indoctrination, and that’s why he’s depressed.

reply