Most of what i read here are complaints about the pace of the show, Negan or the writing.Personally i'm loving all of these things this season.I like the writing so far.The pace of the show has been great these past few episodes.Finally the characters are actually doing something as opposed to just standing around talking to each other for 95 percent of an episode before something happens.And Negans the most menacing,fomidable and interesting bad guy this show has ever had.
I know what you are saying, but I have to disagree about Negan. I find him boorish and amateurish. JDM is not such a great actor. I thought David Morissey as the Governor was way more nuanced. I loved him. You actually felt somewhat sorry for him because the ZA forever changed him into the villain he became. Negan was ALWAYS a sociopath.
As for this season, yes, it IS better SO FAR than the dreadful last season, which I think is the worst of any season thus far. But we will have to see what happens.
I was afraid to say this for fear of getting pounced on, but I agree - I don't think JDM is that great of an actor.
In the new Rampage trailer (starring The Rock) JDM makes an appearance and sounds exactly the same as Negan. Either the director told him to play it like Negan for laughs, or JDM doesn't really have much range in his voice and expressions. And I was not that impressed with him in Watchmen neither.
Either way, I really cannot stand Negan's TV character. Every third or fourth line will either have the word "shit" or an alpha-male penis reference. He's so tiresome and predictable to watch.
Right! He is really an idiot. I mean. I saw him at a Horrorhound convention in March. He was charging an un-heard of amount for an autograph for someone new to the horror convo scene - $80!! And you had to pay FIRST, in another room, downstairs before you were even permitted to queue up! I didn't pay for him. He bores me.
I agree, JDM is a very limited actor. I saw him in a couple of movies and he just plays himself with the smirk, know-it-all expression and quite monotone lines delivery. The only thing that stands out in his Negan is the constant bending of the knees that was already very irritating in day one.
Negan behaves and talks like a 12 years old kid and while in the comics it might work (it doesen't for me, but I dislike the comics on a whole), on TV it has no chance. Especially after a string of more convincing villains. Even Claimer Joe was a better written and acted one.
Clearly they put a lot of faith in Negan, but I think it's slightly backfiring and they definetely chose the wrong actor.
I don't know if he's a joke or not, but he's definetely overrated as an actor. Judging from the few interviews I've seen, he seems quite full of himself, but it may be just a pose.
JDM is a good actor. Any time you evaluate a TWD actor, you simply must grant a lot of leeway because the writers give the actors absolutely nothing with which to work. It's impossible to overstate that. Merle is my stock example. On paper, he was one of the worst characters on ANY tv show; he worked and actually managed to be great at times entirely because of Michael Rooker. Not everyone has managed that. Xander Berkeley is a great actor but he's stuck playing Gregory, which is just a horrible, horrible part. He sometimes manages to squeeze some laughs out of the material but not much else. Lenny James is another rock-solid talent whose character (Morgan) was ruined by the writers. Look at what the writers did to Laurie Holden's character. Good actors can do a lot with not much but it's a very rare one that can turn outright sewage into gold.
"I thought David Morissey as the Governor was way more nuanced. I loved him. You actually felt somewhat sorry for him because the ZA forever changed him into the villain he became. Negan was ALWAYS a sociopath."
I completely agree. While I like JDM as an actor, in my opinion, he's got nothing on David Morrissey whose portrayal of the Governor I found to be very compelling. I've not read the comics but from what I understand, Morrissey gave a lot of depth to a character that was originally a one-note villain, which I think is a testament to his acting ability. Negan, on the other hand, fits the bill for someone with Antisocial Personality Disorder. I think he was the way he is *before* the apocalypse, and that the apocalypse simply served as a catalyst for him to be hostile and to subjugate others. (At least that's my take on TV Negan; comic book Negan may be a different story, I don't know.) His warped sense of morality, his gleeful killing of people, his lack of remorse and blaming of his victims ("it's your fault I'm doing this to you! If you hadn't pissed me off, I wouldn't be bashing your head in!") are all indicative, to me, of someone who has innate deficits in empathy, apocalypse or no.
Absolutely spot on with your assessment of both the Governor and Negan.
The Governor had redeeming qualities. He was a family man and father, a productive member of society. The onset of the ZA forever skewed his morality and soul. This is David Morissey's portrayal I am speaking of. He is a fantastic actor. You are correct, the Governor of the comics is a brute , and we know little about him before the ZA. We don't really want to know anything, either.
If you have read Kirkman's 16 part comic about Negan's backstory called "Here's Negan", you can see that Negan is not a good person before or after the ZA. He uses the ZA to commit his crimes against all of humanity. He uses an incident pre ZA as his catalyst. I won't spoil it for you, though, unless you want it spoiled.
I haven't read that, but you can go ahead and spoil it for me. I've decided not to keep watching the show, and I have no interest in getting into the comics.
[spoiler] Negan was a high school gym teacher. He was married to a woman named "Lucille". She died when the ZA started and became a walker. He was not able to "kill" her. He was also unfaithful to her when he was married. So, he wasn't a good guy at all. He used to say the "f" word all the time back then , before the ZA. The series documents how he found other people and stepped up to become their leader because they "needed someone to take charge". He also found a baseball bat and decided to wrap barbed wire around it. The series is mostly about him on the road.[/spoiler]The series is only about 4 comic pages each issue and there are 16 issues. If you were so inclined to read it, it's on Youtube.
You're not alone. Plenty of people still enjoy this show, myself included. It has been on for 8 years so some ppl are bound to tune out while others tune in. I'm still entertained each week.
That said, I think it would be good to start thinking of an ending for the show. I know the comic books are still going, so the show may want to do shorter seasons. I do wonder how they plan to end the show. A cure maybe? Or living in relative peace w/a cure soon to be found?
It will probably end along the lines of World War Z. Not exactly a happy ending, but a hopeful one. With the walkers decaying more and more each day, they will find a more efficient way of dealing with them, decreasing the casualties, also there will be no more human threats in the horizon. But the world won't be 100% fixed, on screen, for us viewers to witness it. They will only hint at it and from there on we will have to assume. So there will be an apparent sense of safety and resolution left in the air.
Whether or not Rick will still be alive, leading, or dead. I guess we will have to wait and see, Carl is there to pick up his mantle, in any case.
It was said that the plan was to make it all the way to season 12, then end it. Crazy if you ask me, the show is on it's last legs as far as good storytelling, writing and characters go. I think their last trick will be to introduce the Whisperers, if they get that right and manage to have a good dynamic going, I think it could reach season 10. If only they were capable of that...
S12 is pretty crazy. I don't think the show is bad yet, but I do think it should start thinking of winding down. There's only so many evil ppl they can encounter and have to fight. I still enjoy the show though. It's entertaining. I want to see Rick kill Negan!!!!
Exactly, it can't go on for much longer if it's going to follow this same formula until the end. I still enjoy it too, but only really watch it for Andrew Lincoln and Norman Reedus. I've become a fan of both actors.
Agreed! I don't follow the comics, but do you think this Whispers plot is a good one? I am a little tired of them having to fight ppl all the time, esp. since I like our group. I know most ppl want to see the main characters die, but I'm strange in that I DON'T want to see that. LOL! I like our group and want them to survive.
Once the war is over, maybe they can return to fighting zombies primarily!
I don't follow the comics either, but I have some knowledge on them from reading on the internet. The reason why I think it would be a good idea to introduce the Whisperers, is because they are an unconventional group. But they would have to make it short, like they did with The Hunters.
The Whisperers are different because they have the ZA equivalent to nuclear weapons. They don't fight to control other groups, if they see a group to be a threat, they just want them gone.
I doubt it will have many viewers by that time. I always have maintained that when Rick dies, I'm done. I think Andy will leave soon. The writing is so sub par. I have a feeling that the pride in this show he has felt has taken a beating and he will want out sooner than later.
I'm thinking the same. Unless it happens in the last episodes of the show, if they kill Rick, then the show will be as good as dead.
I want Andrew to move on to other projects, I think his talent is being wasted here. But he's probably just going to bail to England, and stick to his stage works.
When it comes to more popular programs, there are always going to be a lot of people who come to the board just to complain. It's sad when it happens on a site that hasn't quite hit the critical mass to be able to absorb it, so almost all you see are the complaints that somebody really really wanted to see X, but got Y instead (which is what all of it comes down to). There are things I'm not happy about myself, but I agree this season is largely better than last season so far, and has mostly been enjoyable.
I have seen JDM in other things before and I'm not a fan (he really does seem to play the same character every time), but I think he's actually doing okay with what's been written for him on TWD. TV Negan just doesn't have a lot of depth.
True, but there are also people, like myself, that used to like the show and are frustraded by the dip in quality. I never thought that TWD was the best show ever and the way my brain is wired I am incapable of being a fan, but until Season 5 it was engaging and interesting.
I am more than willing to go with the flow and suspend disbelief (otherwise what's the point of watching fiction?), but the last three seasons had a lot of cheap manipulation, tricks, bottle episodes, storylines that didn't advance, events stretching, long winded speeches, repetitions and pseudo-intellectual directing style that is starting to get on my nerves.
I'm happy for you that you like this season better, but I don't. We are already six episodes in and nothing really happened and I feel they are stalling for milking purposes.
Lastly, I disagree that JDM is doing OK with what's been written for him. A more understated approach and more deadpan deliveries would make for a better Negan. And no knee-bending and strange body contorsions, it's just silly and too much cartoonish. Either he didn't get the character or he doesen't care. Or he just can't do any better. Other actors are being given the short end, but they still make their character work. Maybe they're just better actors?
I hear that from a lot of people about seasons 4-6, but as far as I'm concerned there have always been pacing problems and/or bizarre artistic choices with this show, right from the beginning.
Oh he cares. I remember seeing a clip where JDM said that he specifically told his unsure agent (that was told TPTB were interested in JDM as an unnamed villain) that he definitely wanted to play the character IF it was Negan. Anyway I am a great fan of subtlety, but not false subtlety. There needs to be an existing promise of some depth to the character, yet neither in the writing nor in JDM's portrayal does such a thing exist. A "subtle" Negan would be like putting a mirror on a wall to make a small room look bigger.
That's why I specified that I never thought TWD was the best show ever. It was entertaining, but I agree that it was never perfect. Just better that now.
I was just trowing possibilities around. My personal answer is that JDM is a limited actor that can't do any better. BTW it sounds like he's really taken with himself. Negan yes and, say, Simon no? Good grief...
Anyway, I didn't mention subtlety. Subtlety has never been a thing on TWD and it wouldn't fit. I wrote understated. Let him swear if it's his thing, but for Pete's sake stop with the cartoonish demeanor. A more quiet menace would do better than this grinning tool we are stuck with.
"It's sad when it happens on a site that hasn't quite hit the critical mass to be able to absorb it, so almost all you see are the complaints that somebody really really wanted to see X, but got Y instead (which is what all of it comes down to)."
When X makes sense buy Y doesn't make any, that's an entirely valid criticism. The days of TWD's peak popularity are long gone; it will now draw as many or more complaints as praise and the complaints will become more numerous with time. That's true across even the sites tightly regulated by its awful fanboy faction (who tolerate no criticism of the show). It's never coming back from that. The problems I've been pointing out since its second season have swallowed it whole and everyone involved has just been milking it for whatever dollars can still be squeezed from it--that's the way it's been since the season 5 opener.
People like to complain. Its the way of things grasshopper. I'm still liking the show albeit there are times when they stretch it a bit too far but what the heck its a show about zombies and the end of civilisation as we know it. Let your brain go into neutral and stop over thinking it. You know it makes sense :)
I started reading the comics around the beginning of season 6 and it really helped me understand why certain things are done on the show. It's not exactly the same, mainly the characters are switched around, but there are some parts that are word for word straight from the comics. And then some other things they do to recreate the look and feel, like the speech of Ezekiel being a narration of a story that ends in a heartbreaking fashion. The thing they are doing with the faces is done quite a bit in the comics as well. The stuff that is original to the TV show, for the most part I like, but kinda mixed on the Beth in the hospital story and the W's were like a plot they decided to stop developing and just dropped them.
I liked this half season too. The show isn't what it once was, but I'm enjoying it way more than season 6, with the exception of the season 6 premiere, which was the best episode they've ever done.