The advertising, which has been effective, makes it look like the former.
Some on the right are saying it's a bait and switch, though, and the movie is really more like the latter.
Based on recent history, I think it's just the "anti-woke" crowd overreacting again. Oh-no, black people in a movie about a Barbie doll!
I'm sure we'll get blasted on this site but the "anti-woke" crowd is so goddamn annoying. Even if they're correct (which to be clear, they rarely are), they're just so repetitive and boring. If you're going to incessantly whine when any piece of media doesn't completely conform to your political beliefs, then maybe you should stop consuming media? It must be exhausting.
shareDid you just say "If you don't like it, don't watch it?"
shareNot really. Of course it's okay to criticize content for its perceived flaws. But if those "flaws" are "not endorsing white supremacy" or "acknowledging the existence of trans people", then maybe it's time to give media analysis a break. It's just so fucking boring.
If 90% of content you watch is going to have tiny slights that upset you and supposedly taint the entire product, then yeah, stop watching! All you're doing is making yourself angry for no reason. What's the point?
It's clear that Hollywood at-large is not going to cave to the anti-woke crowd. Movie studios rake in cash while some randos online who never would've seen their films anyway shout "go woke go broke". The only thing they've done is make movie discussion spaces, like this site, so toxic that anyone looking to discuss more interesting topics is turned away.
But if those "flaws" are "not endorsing white supremacy..." Is anyone supposed to take you seriously after a statement like this?
shareYou were never going to take me seriously to begin with.
shareCertainly makes it harder for people to take you seriously if you make hysterical claims like that, but you wouldn't take those people seriously to begin with.
shareI will take it seriously. Just tell me, in your opinion:
1. What aspects make a film "too woke" to enjoy?
2. How do those aspects genuinely reduce the quality of the film, beyond being just "something I disagree with politically"?
So far, there are several posts here criticizing the Barbie movie for having actors that are too old, ugly, or are trans, as if any of those are valid criticisms. These are the people I'm tired of hearing from.
Also, complete sidenote, I'm not trying to distract from the actual discussion. But while looking through the posts on this movie, I saw you previously said
This movie is going to have a lot of social commentary, unlike Star Wars.
I ENJOY YOUR POSTS...I LIKE YOUR STYLE.
shareYou mean his posts like these ones:
Does she have a nice booty?
Does she have implants?
So, were all the actresses required to have great boobs?
Or where his commenting on how Jennifer Lawrence's boobs sag?
Which gem is your favorite :)
I WAS UNAWARE OF THOSE POSTS...PERHAPS I LIKE HIM LESS THAN I THOUGHT.
shareNo one's perfect :(
shareI find it hilarious that men can no longer discuss or comment on the physical attractiveness of a woman in 2023.
I could probably read every dude’s mind when a beautiful woman walks by, but no one is allowed to say “damn, she’s hot.” We have to say, “damn, I bet she finished her dissertation at Yale.” 🤣
Even you “heroes” riding in on your white horses who remind us at every turn not to mention a woman’s physical attractiveness out loud…I know what you’re really thinking when you see a beautiful woman, and that is “damn, she’s hot”, just like the rest of us scoundrels.
And lastly, Margot Robbie is absolutely gorgeous, and no, I have no idea how good her business acumen is, and I don’t care.
Men are allowed to find women sexy. It’s obviously not the only thing to consider, or the most important thing, but telling men they can’t talk about a woman’s attractiveness anymore is getting ridiculous.
DISCUSSING SOMEONES ATTRACTIVENESS AND DEBATING THEIR BODY PARTS ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
shareHere's a fun video that highlights some of the problems of wokeness in todays movies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tDec5UaekU
Personally, i don't watch most of the movies that the video mentions, cause i'm not into those genres, but so what. I've actually managed to avoid most of the woke films, i'm more against some of the things that wokeness in general pushes in society: Equity, instead of equality of opportunity. Intersectionality. Identity politics etc.
Has wokeness ruined cinema? Ruined is probably an exaggeration(2019 was a great year for cinema and 2022 was pretty good also)but it's certainly not improving it and most likely is preventing some great work from coming to existence(This claim obviously cannot be proven.)
As for the Star Wars comment: That was a presumption on my part, i actually haven't even seen it fully.
Although, we're people aware what social commentary it was making or did the filmmaker have to explain it decades later? There's an old Chinese Proverb: If a movie has social commentary in it, but no one recognizes it, did the social commentary really happen?
"not endorsing white supremacy" or "acknowledging the existence of trans people",
many shows that do these things?
100 percent agree. I'm a fan of doctor who and post regularly on the doctor who board and often it just seems to be woke woke woke.
I've said it before, it's just used as a slogan these days but without any meaning. Film is bad, is woke etc. Like if people could properly explain why it's bad I'd at least respect them more even if I don't agree with them.
Like someone was saying series 12 was anti white yet the doctor was white and one of the most down to earth and kind companions, Graham, was played by Bradly Walsh.
Not to mention we had Sacha Dhawan as the master and Lenny Henry as a bad guy. Yet every time this was pointed out it was just they are the exceptions.
Like if the show just removed everyone white and talked about racism you could at least see their point but it just seems people use the word now if the show is not fully white.
They remind me of all those Germans constantly on about the Nazis. We get it, you hate fascism. It's just exhausting hearing them bitch incessantly about it. Auschwitz this, Goebbels that. Soooo repetitive. You made your point, now shut up. Just because the government and media aren't completely conforming to your exact political beliefs doesn't give you the right to annoy us daily with your point of view. Give it a rest already.
shareAgree, screaming “woke” has got to be the laziest, most generic form of criticism. It is so overused and just injects sloganized politics into everything. Hollywood is a liberal place, as are most artist communities. Take it or leave it, because it seems to have enough “take its” to sustain itself.
shareThis seems like it would be the one movie where I would actually want to see the most diversity possible, considering all the different Barbies that have been made.
Wokeness seems to be a euphemism for racial and sexual diversity, and both sides are taking their arguments too far. I think the anti-wokesters are pointing the finger way too much, but I also think the wokies are sometimes purposefully being outrageous just to poke fingers in eyes.
Barbie however, I mean, this should be super woke and be really funny about it at the same time. I don't know if it is, but what an opportunity.
Wokeness seems to be a euphemism for racial and sexual diversity, and both sides are taking their arguments too far.
I didn't know that about Gears of War. But it doesn't bother me, you know why? Because I don't have to buy it and I'm not forced to play it. I still have the originals if I want to play that series. It's not that I completely disagree with your points, they are certainly valid, but I've seen quite a bit of nitpicking about wokeness in movies where I didn't see what the complaint was. For instance any time a female is in an action movie, and kicks ass, it's viewed as 'woke' feminine empowerment. So what? We didn't like Sarah Connor or Ellen Ripley in the past or something? Stop being so fragile.
Definitely the left is taking it too far, especially with history, like the Cleopatra thing. And the live action Disney stuff is just almost grotesque in the way they are going about changing the source material. But again, I'm not forced to watch that stuff, or pay for it.
any time a female is in an action movie, and kicks ass, it's viewed as 'woke' feminine empowerment
Hear, hear. You articulated those point much better than I.
shareNo it isn't. You idiots always claim go woke go broke. You guys spout that anytime a woke movie doesn't do well. However when a woke film is profitable you go silent. Which what woke means nowadays is a diverse cast. Check out the people complaining about into the spider verse. Are there badly written woke movies that are hammering in a point? Yes but to deny that people of your group hate something just off of the thought of diversity is gaslighting from you also.
shareYou guys spout that anytime a woke movie doesn't do well.
Which what woke means nowadays is a diverse cast.
Yes but to deny that people of your group
Lol okay lets go over some woke films. Into the Spider-verse, Across the Spider-verse, Everything Everywhere all at once, The Batman, Moonlight etc. I could go on but notice you only want to count the ones that fail. I can cherry pick like that also. The Northman was a box office bomb. No wokeness at all and Everything Everywhere all at once crushed it. Avatar Way of Water took a dump all over Top Gun Maverick. Oh and look at that Shape of water is also a woke film lol.
Nope go on the boards of into the Spider-verse and look at them complaining about the wokeness.
You do belong to a group it is beyond obvious.
I can cherry pick like that also
So no retort to me debunking your point. I will count that as a concession. Where did I cherry pick? So you can list the failures but I can't list the successes? Quite funny. Plenty of woke films have been successes. Plenty of non woke films have failed also. The Northman got beat by everything everywhere all at once which is a woke film. Choke on it.
shareWhere did I cherry pick?
I did it because that is what you did. Ignore the successes and count the failures. How about I count the successes and ignore the failures? Everything Everywhere all at once absolutely destroyed the Northman. Also Avatar Shape of Water destroyed Top Gun Maverick. I sleep well knowing idiots like you will not get your way.
shareWoke is in its death throes and weaklings who voluntarily take woke up the ass, like you, are squealing about it all over these boards. It’s great to watch. Keep going…
shareOh really I guess that is why Across the Spider-verse tanked at the box office and there won't be a sequel to it. Oh wait it was a box office hit and the sequel is coming! Choke on it troll.
shareyou speak nothing but the truth...
shareThank you. It’s just fascinating watching these wokies tie themselves in knots to defend their cult and try to pretend to everyone that the woke onslaught isn’t happening. It stinks of holocaust denial.
Who do they think they’re convincing?? 🤣
I suppose if they’re credulous enough to have been suckered into the woke cult it’s natural that they would assume other people are just as stupid.
WOKE IS FAKE...PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE.
shareI didn't know that about Gears of War. But it doesn't bother me, you know why? Because I don't have to buy it and I'm not forced to play it.
I still have the originals if I want to play that series.
I've seen quite a bit of nitpicking about wokeness in movies where I didn't see what the complaint was. For instance any time a female is in an action movie, and kicks ass, it's viewed as 'woke' feminine empowerment. So what?
Good points well made 🍻
shareYou have the choice of the entertainment you choose to watch. No one is forcing you to play these games or watch any of these movies. It is time to take some personal responsibility something you know nothing about.
shareYes, just let the plague spread, don't even attempt to stop it... just look away from its growing destruction until eventually it has infected everything you've ever known and loved. Thanks for your genius insight into this issue.
shareAnd how do you stop it? Oh that's right by voting with your wallet. That does more than complaining about something and continually paying to see it. You aren't getting your way and I'm glad. Sit back and stay quiet.
shareYou vote with your wallet, and explain why you're voting the way you are. If everyone just stayed silent there would be no clear indication as to what the actual issue was, and no path forward to fixing it.
And yes, I understand you're a Trump-deranged leftist (such a surprise), so of course you'd love for everyone to stop pointing out how your garbage ideologies are continually ruining beloved franchises and other pieces of media.
Awww how cute. You think your messages and opinions have that much relevant to studios and producers. I got news for you they only care about your money. The issue has been stated a million times people get it by now. You aren't new or original. So are you denying that a left leaning film can be well made? I can openly admit any film can be good regardless of ideology. You only think right leaning films can be good that's how small your brain is.
Your ideology and support of certain issues ruin stuff as well. Just because I don't support that corrupt piece of trash Trump does it mean I am some raging liberal. I happen to think Biden is garbage also.
If they truly care about money, they'll can people like Kathleen Kennedy and stop producing ideologically-injected, poorly-written dreck.
They're getting the picture, slowly but surely. Thanks to a multitude of people who haven't stayed silent, and have continued to call out this nonsense - I would be very disappointed indeed if what I was saying was new or original. Unfortunately for you it's not, and the sentiment is only growing.
Where did I say I liked the new star wars or Kathleen Kennedy? Also there are films which are well written which lean left that unfortunately for you are a financial success. Across the spider verse, the batman, are diverse films which are getting sequels. While films like the northman were box office duds. An all white cast which is all about macho white guys. Want me to continue burying you or want to shut up now?
I know more about cinema than you ever will trust me.
If a film is well written enough to where it doesn't feel like an ideology is being shoved down my throat, or causing me to cringe at certain scenes, or making me actually care about the characters and story, then that's not really what I'm referring to, is it?
But if the clear desire of the film is to emasculate the men in the movie, make women overly strong and near flawless for the fear of them being portrayed as "weak", have new women characters outshine their now old and pathetic beloved male counterparts, etc. etc... you will get what you're getting with the Star Wars movies - a continual decline in revenue, so much so that they've stopped making movies entirely.
This type of ideology, as well as being hyperfocused on race, gender, and sexuality instead of simply trying to write good characters... hurts films, it doesn't help. And the desire to deconstruct everything and trend toward nihilism to thwart traditional moral values... hurts stories like Star Wars. We already had natural diversity in the past without waving our arms around about it, and Ellen Ripley for instance wasn't written to be a "strong woman™". Had she been in the manner of today's writers, the character likely would have suffered immensely.
Anyway, you're getting nasty and insecure. Cool your tone if you want to continue this conversation, boy.
Lol nice walking it back. So my point was proven. A movie can be good regardless of it's ideology. You said if it doesn't feel like it's being crammed down my throat. Well that's subjective now isn't it? Some people cringed at the mere fact at Kravitz being cast as Catwoman. This was before a trailer was shown or a plot beat revealed. I wonder why that is? Oh yeah because idiots think there is one way to interpret that character. When in the Year one comic which is what they were channeling was not white. Kravitz looks like a spitting image of that Selina.
Yep and I agree when you step too far and don't execute good writing regardless of ideology it's trash. You accused me of liking those films. The new Star wars sucks it's why I don't watch them. The prequels weren't good either.
I'm not cooling any tone. You called me a deranged Trump leftist. You want to disrespect me on a baskess assumption and then want me to watch my tone? Kick rocks bud.
My previous comment: "stop producing ideologically-injected, poorly-written dreck."
I'm not walking back anything, but you've constructed a strawman which you're now fighting, instead of what I've actually stated.
My stance has always been that stories and character should come first, and that's a common theme for people who oppose this kind of shit. There's this feverish cult-like mentality that the left has taken on in recent years, and they seem to feel the need to inject it in absolutely everything, and movies are suffering for it in ways I've already described.
And staying silent about it is not a solution if you actually want this issue to be resolved.
Anyway, sorry I struck a raw nerve by calling you a Trump-deranged leftist (which you do in fact behave uncannily like). I'm deeply, dearly sorry for that.
Ok I apologize as well. I guess I'm guilty of being defensive as well. I just get annoyed when people automatically discredit something because they disagree with it's ideology. Now in terms of the live action Disney remakes, Star wars I agree it's soulless crap. Ideology is the first goal and story is secondary which I agree you are correct. To be fair you didn't do that.
However the only slight disagreement I have about the Disney remakes is one thing. People scream oh look the race swap is what makes the live action Disney remakes suck! No beauty and the beast has a white Belle and it was still bad. It's bad because they are telling the same exact story already done. They change 5 percent of it and call it a change. Justify why the remake exists and approach it from a new angle to tell a new story. No simply changing a race or 5 percent of the script doesn't count as a change.
I just want good films. I loved the batman and the new mission impossible was quite solid! I didn't even bother seeing the new Indiana jones because of Disney and Kathleen Kennedy. Anything she's attached to I take a pass on. I may not like Trump but I think Biden sucks also. I lean left but I don't view myself as a leftist that's insane. I call out corruption on both sides.
I was being half-facetious with the apology, but at the same time I'm getting tired of negative back and forths that don't accomplish anything. So all is well.
You're right about the Disney remakes, though I don't think most people are saying they're bad simply because of a race swap - it's just indicative of the larger problem. "Oh, here's another quasi-woke soulless cash grab remake." If they were putting out great films with these race swaps, people would probably have a different perspective. It just seems like their focus is in all the wrong places.
I dislike Biden, Trump, and the entire two party partisan mentality that goes on. It's like the antithesis to critical thought, but that's an entirely different conversation. Cheers
Reviews have already confirmed it has heavy messages about patricarchy and sexism in society. It's going to be shit
share🤣
shareScrew this film if true. Do you have links to those reviews?
shareA film can be both entertaining and make a statement.
When a movie promotes the right values and views, it only can enhance it's quality.
93% RT like Last Jedi so yeh it be a wokefest
shareIt does get pretty preachy at times, which really lessen the fun of the film.
share