Let's settle this once for all (male vs female fighting)

[deleted]

Let's put it this way: what upsets are two things this movie portrays:
1. Sexism, but Oh!, a much different sexism than what you are thinking.
2. A wrong ideology that an MMA fighter = the best fighter in the world.

For the first issue, let me explain it this way: If in the Borne, MI, Transporter, Bruce Lee and dozens of other male fighting movies, the main male hero continued to pound, beatup, kill and mow down mounds of female enemies, and afterward, on the forum boards, in the media and reviews, on social media people said, "Ya, that man is a stud, a real strong hero, he really knows how to fight and didn't even wear padding!!" - how would you respond?

How would society respond, or better yet, how SHOULD society respond? I KNOW such a movie would be preposterous and taken very offensively by women's groups.

Yet it is perfectly normal, exciting and stimulating to watch a woman do this to men?

For the second issue, just because someone is an MMA fighter does not mean they have extensive fighting experience!

I KNOW THAT IS A SHOCKER!

All it means is that they have mixed martial arts training. You can get into MMA after a few years of training.

To presuppose that a special opps soldier is not going to stand up to a woman half his size because he doesn't fight in the octagon is preposterous!

What MMA has shown us is:
1. Versatility is important, your stand up game better have a ground game.

2. Kata and stylistic forms of martial arts (kung fu and others) do not fair well at all with traditional striking, grappling moves. In fact, MMA legend Bas Rutten has on the record said that a Bruce Lee would not last a minute in the ring.

3. People still have a dominant skill and the fight will favor the person if and only if, that person can obtain the right circumstances to use that dominant skill. Example: a great grappler can learn a good stand up game but inevitably will immediately go for the take down, especially if he/she is against an opponent with a good stand up/boxing/striking game.

It is at these early moments, where a wrong move in a take down can result in a knee thrust to the head and an early KO.

4. Everyone is susceptible to a weakness and can get caught, causing an upset.

5. Sometimes someone with no MMA skills dominates those with all the skills. Boxing champ Ray Mercer knocking out Tim Sylvia in one punch, causing a HUGE upset. Later he was submitted by the laughing stock of MMA, Kimbo Slice. And why? Because Kimbo took it to the ground while Mercer hit Sylvia before he could go to the ground.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUx9OE7DZAo

6. Weight classes still overwhelming matter REGARDLESS of skill. Why? Strength, physics and reach. People forget that a 145 pound 5'8" woman is going to have a real hard time pushing around a 6' 4" 250 pound guy, especially if he gets on top and grounds and pounds. How many MMA fights have ended this way?

She can still win via triangle, arm bar KO (though that would be very rare and something she would not go for since she would be very open as well).

My point with this is to show sexism working in the opposite way and to give a little more realism to fighting. A champion in MMA does not equal the best fighter in the world not the ability to dominate across gender and weight class.

Thank you!

You're talking about suspension of disbelief to enjoy a movie like this, not the fact that it is merely fictional. You might want to read up on that bonehead. It is simply not believable no matter how big a badass she is, a chick cannot withstand blows to the face and head and get up, let alone barely look like her makeup is mussed. Carana has sex appeal and that will serve her well. The action choreography in this film was not particularly good either.

[deleted]

by - aliasbrush on Fri Jan 6 2012 07:22:09

So, in a nutshell, someone like Cristiane Santos shouldn't fight someone like YOU for HER safety?

You're talking about pro fighters, not soldiers, and certainly not men in general. And while there are undoubtedly some soldiers out there that are skilled enough to compete in pro fighting tournaments, an average soldier (with *relatively* little MMA training) would not be allowed to compete against those same fighters, for their own safety.

This is fiction. You might want to read that sentence a few times to let it sink in.

In real life, there are a lot of guys that could defeat Gina in a fight... but most couldn't. In real life, there are a lot of soldiers that would defeat Gina in a fight... but certainly NOT ALL would.

This is fiction.

In this movie, Gina's ability is above and beyond what it is in real life. She's not up against the toughest male pro fighters in the world, but elite soldiers that aren't necessarily as skilled in hand-to-hand combat.

As to realistically taking on dozens of these soldiers, no woman OR MAN could do that, so why haven't you taken your case to the Bourne or Bond forums, or any number of other boards. Why does this movie upset you?
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^ ^
The first response to this thread ended this whole discussion! FACT lol

Reality check, in the real world you don't telegraph to the target that you are going to get them, the element of surprise (as in being hit from behind) is a great equalizer. This movie just use the same BS of old westerns with a gun fight in the street with both men facing each other, reality would have been a bullet in the back... in the first scene there would have been no talking in a diner, they would have killed her from afar or snatched her before she ever saw them coming.... this was just a writers dream of what drama might be, not reality.

[deleted]

^exactly!!!

Plus Gina is more believable kicking ass than any other action movie star so go complain about those other films before you go after this one.

-Karl

You've got to figure sport fighting or even street fighting would not be the way to go. Deadly self defense styles such as krav maga and multi attacker styles like kajukenbo would use vital strikes and limb destruction techniques to put down an assailant as fast as possible with the least amount of effort.

Realistically, I think Carano would probably be superior to a male soldier who had less hand to hand experience than she does. Provided they were in the same weight class.

If his experience was equal, and they were within a few pounds of each other, I would guess that the man would probably win. A fit man weighing 145 lbs probably has more upper body strength than a woman in the same weight class.

The larger the weight difference the less equal the fight becomes. Carano is no heavyweight. But this is also a movie.

I am very conservative and I love generally more "feminine" women(especially w/ big boobs and ass like Gina) but the idea a woman can't beat a man is STUPID. Have you ever heard of sarmatian(ie scythian) women(who was the basis for the AMAZONS legend), women samurai and ninjas, and etc. They are all based on historical facts.

[deleted]

I do not see how sexist has anything to do with pointing out differences between male and female anatomy, strength and chemicals (specifically testosterone).

There is a reason why testosterone found in women and other enhancing drugs that males have naturally, make women disqualified and fined, as in the case that just happened with "Cyborg".

It makes them too dangerous to other women, giving them unfair strength advantage. This happens in the Olympics as well.

Cyborg has too much upper body strength for Gina and dominated her, but compared with a medium built man, Cyborg does not have near the upper body strength (though she has much better conditioning).

People questioned her upper strength and voila, it was true, drug enhancement.

Faced with heavyweight men larger than my size (my size 6'4" 245) like Lessnar (6'3" 267) one punch and the lights are out on the girls.

How many men have Osteoporosis? Another benefit of testosterone is thicker, denser bones, faster twitch muscles, denser muscle mass, greater strength, ect.

Now, there are plenty of women who can beat a SIMILAR weight man at grappling or fighting, given she has better skill or 'catches' him with a triangle or choke.

The issue still remains: the time necessary, the effort exhibited and the similar body weight class. Taking 6 men (where did you come up with that number?) seems highly unrealistic, and yes, this movie is unrealistic as most action movies are, but the boards need to remember, just because an actor has an MMA background does not mean she/him can violate physics.

Have you watched football lately? How about a running back attacking an MMA expert, let alone a 145 pound girl? Perfect Scenario, a running back with NO FIGHTING skill against Japan's heavy weight martial artist CHAMPION with a lifetime of training?

hmm, watch carefully:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lq_g67OjQA&t=05m17s

And yes, Bobb Sapp has beaten and been beaten (cracked eye socket for instance fighting heavy weight MMA fighters), but you have to give it to the guy: going in to a sport with no training and using just mass and braun and often winning. Give him more training and physics favors him even more.

My friends, can you imagine this 350 pound line backer, with solid muscle, running at Gina and somehow one kick from her sends him flying back but she goes no where?

No way.

One body shot from him and she could have a broken neck along with broken ribs.

MMA, karate, BJJ, Krov Mega all use physics, they don't replace physics, if you don't get out of the way in time, you are getting run over!

My friends, this is not sexism, this is physics.