MovieChat Forums > Tucker and Dale vs Evil (2010) Discussion > Why is this irritating cliche used in so...

Why is this irritating cliche used in so many movies

posted 11 years ago by Ultrasade
27 replies | jump to latest

I did like this movie alot, I thought the premise and overall exercution was great.

But right form the begining I hated the 'average guy wants hot girl' theme. It has been done to death. I'm sick being asked to constantly root for nice but essentially shallow guys who are only interested in super attractive girls. Writers may sometimes tack on a hint of personality often by making her a shallow b#!@h, not that thst makes a diiference. The fact that shes good looking is the only thing that really matters

Also we are supposed to feel sorry for these losers coz they lack confidence but seriously they can barely get out a sentence out sometimes. All the stammering and whining and 'hot girl' worship quickly stops being charming and just gets on my nerves. (the breakfast scene in this film is an example, though I know it was also part of the humour)

I wouldn't mind if it went both ways, but when ever movies want to show 'average girl wants hot guy' they use a beautiful women and just give her glasses and a bad hair cut. And usually by the end of the movie shes been claened up and made beautiful again. Or they make attractive guy a jerk and average girl realises it's actually her unattractive friend she wants.

Why are these average looking 'nice guys' rarely paired off with average looking 'nice women'. It feels like such lazy, cliched writing.

BTW I'm talking about just movies, not real life, where relations are obviously more complex.

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[–] lorddeseiz 11 years ago

Dale is far from average looking, yes hes a bit overweight but he has alot of charisma and persoanlly i think they the perfect match.
But yes its typical Hollywood, only barbiedolls are wanted, end of story :)
If you want something else that dont follow this, watch My big fat greek wedding neither him or her are lookers and it doesnt follow any of the cliche stuff you mentioned, of course is a complete different style of movie and not half as funny as T&D v evil but good in its own way just because it doesnt go the usual cliche stuff.
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[–] ShyLivesMatter 11 years ago

"Also we are supposed to feel sorry for these losers coz they lack confidence but seriously they can barely get out a sentence out sometimes. All the stammering and whining and 'hot girl' worship quickly stops being charming and just gets on my nerves."

And that, in a nutshell, is why I can't relate to most people on imdb. Man, you're harsh :-/ That stuff is the main reason this movie appealed to me over most other slashers and campy horror satires/comedies, I'm mostly over them, but the awkwardness of Dale and Tucker's (especially Dale's) characters made them endearing and likeable to me. Plus the humour. Plus, yes, the girls were quite hot :-)

Maybe its just me, but I'm a total sucker for the "lovable loser pines for hot girl and she finally comes to see the great guy he really is" genre...never gets old for me. Maybe because I saw a lot of myself in Dale (though I'm less overweight and more formally educated). I think its a pretty universally appealing theme, pretty common, whether mostly just a fantasy in the real world or not. Hey, girls are allowed to have fantasies and pine for fairy tales, so why not us guys? :-)

So agree to disagree. One person's "irritating, whining, stammering loser with no confidence" is another's "endearingly and realistically awkward and sometimes misunderstood but big hearted guy who just needs to believe in himself, try to be brave, and hopefully things will work out". Depends on your personality and outlook on life, I guess. I'm still mostly a hopeful, optimistic idealist. Not always easy, but I try.

Like I said, it just serves as a reminder how different I am from most people that post here, apparently. Thanks for briefly summarizing it for me in a way I obviously can't (I seem to only write novels here) ;-) The more annoying and unlikeable most people here find certain characters, the more I can be guaranteed to probably like them and relate to them lol

Oh well. I guess not everyone can possess empathy or be as big hearted as Dale. Its just who they are, we are who we are, everyone's different, so I shouldn't hate or judge. If it makes you feel any better, you probably wouldn't be Dale's type either...you might have a chance with Chad, though :-)

"Its only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything."

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] taijiquan12 11 years ago

It's like AlanSmithee7 and Ultrasade didn't even watch the movie. Ultrasade talks about only Ally's looks being important, but there's better examples in film of that than this, they at least bothered to give her a major, make her well versed in her subject, and important to the story. She wasn't there for just eye-candy, and was shown to have a good personality as well as looks.
You can criticize how well done all of that was, but you can't say the content just outrightly wasn't there, because it was.

The last thing Ally wants is a stranger who’s at least 10 years older than her making the moves on her in front of all her friends.

Don't quite know why you're mentioning this like it wasn't addressed in the movie. Assuming you saw it, you'll remember that when Dale approaches them at the gas station with a freaking scythe in his hand (which was hilarious), the movie established that from the college kids and Ally's point of view, he was coming across as an inbred bloodthirsty hick. She and her friends wanted nothing to do with him, he didn't "make moves" on her, he barely got out a sentence, creeped them out, and then got scared off by the actual sleazy character of the movie. So your criticism isn't valid there, Ally and her friends were clearly unappreciative of Dale coming over to them, and Dale's lack of self awareness was not only funny, it served to exacerbate his own situation.

The entire theme of the movie was about appearances being deceiving and over-reactions without enough information, and you both seem to have missed that.

Although I love Dale, if he was really such a nice guy he would have just left her alone. Her friends would never have been scared of him and Ally would have never clunked her head.

You can criticize the movie for having contrived writing for putting Tucker/Dale and the college kids in the same area (I wouldn't, because this was a lighthearted comedy/horror film, but to each their own), but if you're going to talk about Ally's "rights" as a character to go on her vacation with her friends, then Tucker and Dale had just as much right to go to their vacation home and fix it up, and then go fishing.

If you remember the events of the movie right, it was Tucker, not Dale (who everything is getting blamed on in this topic) that wanted to spy on Ally at the pond. Tucker and Dale didn't go out onto the pond originally to spy on the college kids, they went there to fish, the movie establishes that they are surprised when they see them swimming. They had no control of the fact that their vacation home happened to be near the college kids campsites.

If you remember, Dale originally didn't want to peep on Ally, and actually scolded Tucker for doing so, and the commotion of their argument is what caused Ally to get distracted and fall into the water.
So again, like the college kids in the movie, AlanSmithee7 looked at it from the wrong perspective and placed blame where it shouldn't go, even though the events looked a certain way.
The point is, Tucker and certainly not Dale were out there to "stalk" Ally or her friends, and I just can't see how you got that impression when the movie showed you and established to you that wasn't the case.

Since this was a comedy, there was a series of unlikely, silly, crazy misunderstandings that happened to cause the events to flow the way they did. The only way that Dale and Ally ended up together was through the insane string of coincidences that happened to them, because this is a movie. If none of that had happened, then Dale would've gotten scared off by Chad at the gas station when he approached Ally, and that would've been it. He was never "intruding" or "stalking", he was a bumbling goon, but not the malacious pervert you somehow see him to be.
You are right about Tucker egging Dale on, and Tucker suffered much worse than Dale throughout the movie, he got more of a Karmatic punishment for everything he did.

"Bulls**t MR.Han Man!!"--Jim Kelly in Enter the Dragon

[–] selep 10 years ago

Fair point on Dale not wanting to peep at Ally and being generally creepy to everyone at the gas station, but I got uncomfortable when he kept Ally from leaving when she wanted to go see her friends after the breakfast scene. Dale clearly wanted her to stay with him because he liked her, but he covered it up saying she should stay to 'heal up.' If he were truly nice and cared about her, he would have let her go back to her friends.

[–] doggie_rodriguez 10 years ago

If he were truly nice and cared about her, he would have let her go back to her friends.

As opposed to saving her from drowning. Giving her dry clothes. Bandaging her head. Giving her a safe place to stay the night. Making her breakfast.

Yeah, he clearly didn't care for her at all, lol.

[–] cpbvk 10 years ago

Dale's not wanting her to bother herself with finding her friends and offering to do it for her was typical of his general MO: doing precisely the wrong thing out of the best intentions. Plus, the whole plot would have fallen apart if he'd allowed her to do that. Also, I'd like to take this opportunity to fully endorse the OP's complaint. This is a really toxic element of the movies that I'd be glad to see the end of.

[–] RynoII 10 years ago

I suppose they could have switched the genders around, and had two average looking female hillbilly characters, wanting hot looking city guys. But if they did it this way, the city guys might not find the hillbilly women intimidating or scary for the premise to work, so I think they had to use the cliche, in order for the premise to work. A premise which is actually quite original, which uses cliches to be original, so I think in that sense, it's okay.

[–] TheGoodWife77 11 years ago

Yup, I'm sick of it too. Apparently the real horror in any movie would be a female protagonist who isn't gorgeous. But the male protagonist is supposed to be "relatable" to the average man. Not sure why there is such incongruity there, and that so many filmmakers don't give a *beep* about female fans being able to connect with a character on any level.

It's really obnoxious.

[–] RynoII 10 years ago

If females do not like female main characters in horror movies, then why do so many women keep watching them?

[–] Starwarsfan777 10 years ago

Hambeast detected.

[–] Wakanohana 10 years ago

Quote: "But right from the beginning I hated the 'average guy wants hot girl' theme. It has been done to death."

If you mean that it's been a popular theme since the ancient Greeks, then yes. And certainly revived in medieval Europe, and in numerous operas of the 18th and 19th centuries, and in books and film in the 20th century.

But that doesn't mean that the director was wrong to tell that tale in another place and time. I'm thinking that this story will continue to be told so long as there are hot girls and average guys who love them.

[–] spookyrat1 10 years ago

If you mean that it's been a popular theme since the ancient Greeks, then yes.

Yup! Hundreds of Renaissance poets and painters can't have been wrong.

[–] selep 10 years ago

Thank you! The romance subplot really dragged it down. I liked Dale and Tucker's friendship and thought the over-the-top deaths were funny, the irony and backstory was solid and interesting, but this "schlubby guy gets hot girl" has been done to death and it. Is. Boring.

And it gets trotted out into dozens of TV shows and movies, but the only examples of the opposite happening are in "Mad Fat Diary," or in really quick scenes like Legally Blonde. Like you said, most of the time it's a hot actress who needs a makeover by the end, or the couple is equally average looking like one poster mentioned in My Big Fat Greek Wedding. It's good that we have those too, but the cliche overshadows that.

Men dominate Hollywood and that's why they tell the same story over and over, that hot women need to look beyond ugly or average to the ~beauty within~ while they have to be the perfect beauty standard the writer lusts after. Case in point, Ally had to walk around with her pants unbuttoned and her toned stomach and cleavage hanging out, with her magically perfect curled hair swinging around while everyone else got dusty and bloody. And the little 'look, she's 3 dimensional too!' moments felt as tacked on as Dale's memory. Look, she gets down and dirty in the mud! She can connect to Dale because she worked on a farm! The one thing I thought was well done was when she played therapist and did it well (and even that was undercut by her pouring tea for the menfolk), but then she was turned into the screaming, helpless damsel in distress, and she spent about half of the movie unconscious. Her one flaw was clumsiness, and I call BS on that because who wouldn't fall off a rock after you found you were being spied on? Who wouldn't fall into a pit when you see some guy running toward you with a weapon?

I get that this movie was supposed to be a parody, but it ended up playing a lot of annoying Hollywood cliches straight, which really lowered my enjoyment of this. Would've been nice if it was more balanced and about the two friends sorting out their issues while dealing with the college kids. So for the millionth time men are told they just have to "Be themselves," while women are told to give average or ugly guys a chance and look like models. Tired of this!

[–] alucardvenom 10 years ago

Some of you missed the entire point of romance subplot.

Alison was made equally socially awkward as Dale (and equally kindhearted). He wasn't confident because he thought he was stupid, fat and ugly, while she too wasn't too confident even tho she was good looking, so they were perfect match. That was the entire point of romance subplot, along with being plot device and starting point for everything that happens in the movie.

Psycho guy wasn't even her boyfriend, he was just obsessed with her. (as seen in scene after psycho kid tells "legend". He makes advances toward her, but she rejects him because she doesn't like him and gets freaked out by what he was saying.)

and Alison herself wasn't just eye candy, she was important part of the plot, plus they gave her some kind of an arch and personality. She was pretty, but she was also nicest person among them, like female version of Dale.

[–] LaLlama 10 years ago

No, you apologist are missing the point.

YES, we understand the point of the film was "don't judge a book by it's cover", but the way it was presented was so predictable and phony, Max Borenstein could have written it. It wouldn't have been as frustrated (though it would still be annoying), if this movie was the standard Hollywood high school teen fiasco, but it wasn't, it was a parody film meant to lampoon the trypical horror slasher cliches, and proceeded to do so, but it wanted to keep to one type of cliche, to boost the confidence of average looking guys everywhere. It seems no one is tired of sympathetic hot girl, judging by these posts.

It's like if a guy were to walk in to a rehab center, with his druggie best friend, and proceeds to walk around the center, calling out everyone on their drug problems, but doesn't even bat an eye at his friend.

[–] brooksshows 10 years ago

Okay, let's try an experiment...Name the last famous female lead who was clearly not attractive? It's not easy to do. In this movie, 'average looking girl' would have been left behind by the others if she even got to come along. So the whole movie would have made no sense. Dale is trying to overcome his insecurities and come out of his shell. She's a target well out of his range and that's part of the humor.

[–] cuem 10 years ago

last famous female lead who was clearly not attractive

Boards are full of messages with people saying "I don't find actress X, Y, Z attractive" and other shouting back at them "you have no taste, you're gay, jealous, haters gonna hate" and whatnot. And if she's fat, minority, or anything like that politically correctness people come out woodwork and accuse you of many things. Example? If IRL I'd say "Angelina Jolie is good-looking superficially but not even remotely attractive, in fact quite the opposite", people would stop what they're doing, criticize me for having a different opinion than theirs. Some people only want their own opinions, tastes to get confirmed by everyone else. And I don't feel obligated by any "sexiest 100 women/men" etc polls at all. So to avoid petty discussions I keep my mouth shut unless others explicitly ask me.

tl;dr There are plenty of unattractive female leads, but many people keep their mouth shut.

[–] brooksshows 10 years ago

I don't think you get what I was saying. Yes, beauty is subjective! But Angelina Jolie is clearly not an ugly woman. Whether she is "beautiful" is a matter of opinion, but she's not ugly.

Very few women come to mind when I think of unattractive leading ladies.. Kathy Bates.. Phyllis Diller.. Meryl Streep.. Whoopi Goldberg, all fairly unattractive but not grotesquely ugly. I mean, where is the women's equivalent of Steve Buscemi or Ernest Borgnine?

[–] cuem 10 years ago

Maybe we have different understandings of the words. I didn't say Angelina Jolie is "not beautiful" or "ugly", just not attractive. One can be beautiful, wrt to ratios, symmetry, makeup, teeth, hair, body, weight, etc. but still unattractive, or have lots imperfections but still be extremely attractive.
As for ugly women, as I said earlier, I won't tell any names ;) Jolie is enough.

[–] joni46231 10 years ago

The reason for shlubby guy getting the gorgeous girl is that the vast majority of writers (throughout the ages) have been men. Men (mostly) make the movies, and therefore it won't change anytime soon.

Most movies have young gorgeous women and men who're mostly average in appearance because it answers the fantasy mentality of the majority of the people writing, directing and casting the movies.

If you were to list average to less than average actors and divide them, male and female, the list of males would vastly outnumber the females.

This explains why so many gorgeous women with no discernable talent of any sort are famous merely for being famous. Kardashians come to mind.

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