MovieChat Forums > Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (2023) Discussion > I must admit, even with Phoebe Waller-Br...

I must admit, even with Phoebe Waller-Bridge starring, I'm not optimistic

posted 2 years ago by [deleted]
23 replies | jump to latest

They have subverted expectations with a female main character who doesn't look like a model and shows us that women can do anything a man can do, only better, even if its Indiana Jones. Which is good.

However, it's not just the usual suspects of sexist, misogynistic review bombers and you tubers who couldn't handle Rey in Star Wars or a talented woman like Kathleen Kennedy running Lucasfilm who have been down on this movie.

Even reputable, professional critics, who appreciate a movie that doesn't promote dated, bigoted values have some problems with it. The most positive reviews tell us it's just OK.

Since it's not just right wing man babies bashing it, I have to think it might genuinely have serious flaws.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Is this supposed to be satire?

How is Kathleen Kennedy 'talented'?

My bad. I must be a misogynist 'right wing man baby' for even asking that question, right? 🙄

Also, do you not realise that it's SUPREMACIST and thus SEXIST to believe one sex or the other is 'better' than the other? Obviously, you've been brain-washed into believing that anything female is automatically good and 'superior', rather than using your own brain (assuming you have one) and applying CRITICAL THINKING. But ANYONE who is capable of rational, logical and reasoned thinking would call out your supremacist BULLSHIT for the *sexism* it clearly is.

[–] davodikum (6212) 2 years ago

Do you have brain damage?

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

You're asking *me* this? Really?!?

Why? What have I done that's so wrong?

[–] davodikum (6212) 2 years ago

Seemed like you were pretty much agreeing with OP, but then attacked them. It just vexed me.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

What vexes *me* is when someone makes the same joke another poster made on the exact same thread, a few days earlier, and a few posts above...but, hey, that's just me. 🙂

And I'm not sure how you could have possibly inferred that I was agreeing with the OP at any point of my above post.

[–] davodikum (6212) 2 years ago

Have a cry. You sound like a baby, you're probably ugly too. You smell, and your mums a prostitute.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

🤦‍♂️

Since the OP is such a staunch progressive feminist (or at least *purports to be*... 🤔) I hope and EXPECT them to call out this BLATANT act of MISOGYNY (i.e. referring to someone's mother as a 'prostitute' as some form of insult). If the OP DOESN'T call this out, it will DEFINITIVELY PROVE that they are FULL OF BULLSHIT and in fact a TROLL whose 'FEMINISM' is a performative JOKE.

Ball's in your court Haslet... 🙂

[–] davodikum (6212) 2 years ago

A lot of buzzwords there mate. Probably reached your quota for the day. Pack it in.

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

I don't believe in stigmatizing sex workers, no. Women who engage in such activities were generally forced into it due to circumstances created by our misogynistic, capitalist society.

That said, davodikum's intentions seem to be good.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

There is NOTHING good, far less 'feminist' about firstly attacking a person's mother, and secondly, shaming sex workers as a means of insulting an individual or their mother. These are BOTH examples of misogyny, and I put it to you that if you regard davodikum's intentions as 'good' here, *you* must be a misogynist.

Own it. 🙂

Also, as an aside, not all sex workers have been forced into their line of work. It's actually quite stigmatising and patronising to those sex workers who have chosen to follow this career path, to frame them this way.

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

I doubt many of them would choose such a career if they didn't live in a society that tells them constantly the only thing of value about them is their bodies.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

I would NEVER pay for the services of a sex worker, and I'm instantly inclined to judge any man who does, BUT once again, it's a gross generalisation to assume that all sex workers have the same, or even similar, stories.

However, yes, it's true that MANY sex workers are exploited and only go into that type of work because they have few other options.

That said, there are also other women, and men, who like to be valued for their bodies, although in their case, modelling is arguably a far better and safer option, if they are eligible.

[–] Satan2016 (26197) 2 years ago

Lucas personally promoted Kathleen Kennedy as his successor. This was when he owned LucasFilm.

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

Who better than Lucas himself to know who should lead Lucasfilm into the future?

He knew she had the vision to create films that would appeal to the sensibilities of modern audiences.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

But you just admitted in your OP that these films *aren't* appealing to modern audiences, and Lucas was quite critical of Episodes VII - IX.

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

I wasn't talking about modern audiences when I talked about the review misogynistic review bombers and you tubers who've made a career crying about their precious franchises being brought into the twenty-first century. They are mostly right wing man babies who skew older.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Some of these Ben Shapiro types are deeply annoying, and, yes, they've made entire careers out of the word 'woke', and demonising it until they're blue in the face, but that doesn't necessarily mean that these films are good. Irrespective of the politics (which I have no strong feelings about), I can think of several reasons why these films don't work (although, tbf, the same could be said for the prequel movies, and I still maintain that The Phantom Menace is the worst Star Wars movie by a long margin), including poor plotting, misjudged 'humour', and sidelining of characters.

However, what does rub me the wrong way is when you say "a female main character who doesn't look like a model and shows us that women can do anything a man can do, only better, even if its Indiana Jones," because that implies to me that you and likeminded people aren't operating in good faith.

It's that whole childish 'destroy the previous generation's heroes' mentality, which is the height of trolling. It's not your values that older people take offence to. It's your insistence at destroying the things that older/other people hold dear.

If a right-wing asshole picks on someone for being trans, or tries to deny a woman's right to abortion, fuck them! They're interfering in other people's rights and identities. But why would you want to do the same back? Like I say, isn't that just trolling? Leave people alone. Enjoy what you like, in peace, and let *them* enjoy what they like, in peace.

This is like some kid sister trying to play with, and break, her older brother's toys. Why can't she just play with her OWN toys? I know The Lego Movie 2 tried to challenge my argument, but I still don't get it. Why would any decent, good faith individual feel the need to trash something someone else held dear? At best, it's interfering. At worst, it's mean-spirited trolling.

As for Kennedy, sorry, but at the risk of being seen as a 'sexist,' I still don't see what she's brought to the table

[–] pjl69 (2647) 2 years ago

"Who better than Lucas himself to know who should lead Lucasfilm into the future?"

Well, he destroyed his beloved original Star Wars trilogy. Maybe he was trying to do the same to Lucasfilm. Has he done any good decisions lately? Of course, it was his property, so he could burn it all down if he wished.

[–] mitzibishi (2013) 2 years ago

Kathleen has a talent for driving franchises and money printers into the ground.

Her answer for everything is "swap it for a woman", which isn't a bad thing per say, except that from that point she brushes her hands off as if she's finished with a creative master stroke and the writing takes a back seat.

[–] Miyagido (2944) 2 years ago

PWB is the main reason I'm avoiding this dumpster fire, stick your woke nonsense right up your arse.

[–] Wint3rFir3 (7384) 2 years ago

Phoebe Waller-Bridge would be the main reason for me to not see this film, if it wasn't already kind of a dying franchise. I don't think modern times can capture what was good about Indiana Jones, regardless of who's tied to the project. Don't get me wrong, I like Kennedy, I'm a huge E.T nerd, but Indiana Jones is past its time (the earlier films no longer hold up much anyway), so there's no reviving it and the most recent attempt to do so really confirms that. It will surely have flaws.

[–] rateater (10247) 2 years ago

phoebe rules. as they say.

[–] Galactus03 (4406) 2 years ago

Who says she can do it better???? Maybe as well as Indy but better is just speculation ....not one person said this about Marion in the first film. Not one ...