So does anyone here like Damon - The Vampire Diaries (2009) Discussion

[–] christinaparker-60256 8 years ago

I love when people have no legitimate arguments, they usually accuse others of being "too PC"

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[–] DustnBones001 8 years ago

Oh there is plenty of good arguments but good luck getting the PC nuts to admit that. They only wanna hear what they wanna hear. It would be nice if more ppl in the workd could leave politics out of entertainment.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

My sentiments exactly.

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

You know someone is privileged when they complain about things being "too PC". It's an argument that basically boils down to them telling the offended party: "Why can't you sit back and turn off your brain and enjoy watching yourself being made the butt of my jokes?"

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[–] ditzymuffin 8 years ago

"Why can't you sit back and turn off your brain and enjoy watching yourself being made the butt of my jokes?"

 God forbid you raise an objection. Then you're being too sensitive.

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[–] DustnBones001 8 years ago

Waa no one calls out Damon for being mean so im going to cry about it in every thread waa

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[–] ditzymuffin 8 years ago

Whaaa! I'm going to start a new thread to whine about how no one likes bitchass Damon.

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[–] DustnBones001 8 years ago

Being a offended is a choice you don't have to partake in, And just because you are easily offended doesn't mean you get to the right to ruin it for others. There is noting worse than coming in a board to a show you like and seeing PC nuts whining about PC crap.

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[–] awesomebamon 8 years ago

I'm a Damon fan, but I admit to and acknowledge the character's flaws, mistakes and wrong doings tho.

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[–] lindsay-kneece 8 years ago

Big Damon fan

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

Love Damon Salvatore. Flaws and all.

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] DustnBones001 8 years ago

Same here

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[–] DustnBones001 8 years ago

Glad I'm not alone 

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[–] TaylorBruh25 8 years ago

I'm not PC, I just don't like how he rapes Caroline, Kills Jeremy(he literally tried to end his life because he didn't know of the ring) suffered a silent treatment for it, I also can't stand his constant comparison to other characters on the show as if they're just as bad as he's been, and I don't get how it all adds up to him getting the girl, brother, best friends, and deserving of having his ass being saved 3-5 times a season. Let's not forget he continuously genocided the Whitmores.

That being said, sometimes he gets blamed for bull. Like:
Turning Abby
Abandoning Alaric and Enzo
Triggering Katherine
Jenna's death
Stefan's Second Phoenix Stone death

However THIS^ is an argument that can actually be made for most of the characters.
Stefan blamed for Ivys death and shamed for friend-zoning Caroline.
Elena for killing Jesse
Bonnie for being mind controlled by Silas
Elena for killing Connor
Stefan for Penny's death
Caroline for the 11 witches
Alaric for having an alter ego

Damon and other characters share unfair blame, but, he experiences the least if any consequences for his actions. It's just bad TV. Not PC culture. Don't be mad cause your Vampire bad boy is a flawed character now.

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[–] DustnBones001 8 years ago

No one in this show is a saint. Nothing Damon has done even remotely compares to what ripper Stefan has done. People need to leave the SJW crap out of entertainment or stick to watching the disney and hallmark channel. This show deals with vampires and their nature if it offends you stop watching its that simple.

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[–] TaylorBruh25 8 years ago

Lol what? Stefan's Ripper binge lasted what 20 years at most? Damon consistently killed for about 50 years. Not to mention the people he damaged in MF that are now his "family". No one on this show is a saint but once again not everyone on the show 60+ year killer and counting.

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[–] DustnBones001 8 years ago

Ahhh a clear delusional reply reply from a damon hater. First off Stefan's ripper binge lasted way longer than 20 years and even if it were 20 years Stefan's kill count is way way higher than Damon's.

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[–] TaylorBruh25 8 years ago

Alright
1. I don't hate Damon, Ian Somerhalders charismatic portrayal of the character is one of the things that made me love this show, however I hate that his written favoritism affects the other characters and let's him be treated as a Clark Kent/Bruce Wayne esq hero, which he is not.

2. Stefan's Ripper binge Started in like 1912 and lasted until the 30s. He then had a Ripper binge for about 6 months give or take in shows time. In both situation Damon was the cause btw.

3. We don't actually know these body counts, but the fact that Damon mentions he used people to hunt and the flashback massacres and his sprees in New York, add that to the fact his humanity less time was 50 years long he was bound to have just a high body count if not higher than Stefan's, but I guess that's delusion right.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

Lol what? Stefan's Ripper binge lasted what 20 years at most? Damon consistently killed for about 50 years. Not to mention the people he damaged in MF that are now his "family". No one on this show is a saint but once again not everyone on the show 60+ year killer and counting.

There is no worse or better. Killing is killing and Stefan is still a killer when it suits him to be one. His morals are as fluid as his love meaning it changes depending on circumstances. The show tells us this explicitly and tacitly.

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] TaylorBruh25 8 years ago

I'm not going to touch the love thing cause I don't know what you meant but Stefan kills (when he's in his right mind) when push comes to shove, name one time (besides Andie) that he's killed to suit himself. Damon kills when his feelings are hurt and or he's feeling depressed, hungry, or bored. I think one is worse than the other.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

What I meant by the love thing is that Stefan has had several "Epic" loves, and that love depends on what Stefan wants from the person giving it. His love is selfish, it is defined by what the relationship does for him. It isn't about the loving the actual person, it is about how that person makes him feel.
Stefan would bring down hell on earth for Damon and as we have seen, Sarah Salvatore (his family). He willingly became the ripper to save the people he loves. When it suits him, he is prepared to forgo his morals about humanity to save the people he loves. This exactly what I mean about fluid morality...he cares about humans and humanity until it affects the people he cares about. This is a very Damon-like quality....It's also an Elena quality and Carolines....see? Stefan cares about humans until he doesn't (Wickery Bridge.. Elena..force feeding her vamp blood!). like I said..when it suits.
Andie epitomises this sentiment. Stefan knew what Damon was doing to her when she was alive (They all did)he did next to nothing to stop it, he also knew what he was doing to Caroline...and he understood it and even mitigated it because he is a vampire. Stefan didn't try to kill Damon in S1 because of what he was doing to Caroline, he did it because it was threatening his relationship with Elena and he was on the verge of being "outed" as vamp by Damon's actions.

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] TaylorBruh25 8 years ago

When you're in love with someone it should certainly be how it makes you feel, unconditional love is more familial, which like you said Sefan shows for Damon, Sarah, even Lily.

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[–] mymammakat 8 years ago

Well there's Vicki, he staked her. To protect Elena, isn't that for his own purpose. Because I know if Damon did that it wouldn't be considered an excuse.The convicted murderer he turned into a vamp so that Jeremy could kill him, I think that was for his own purpose too. You know, so Elena could become human again and he could have her back. BTW, Stefan kills when he's hungry too, remember the guy who opened the safe? Stefan wasn't a ripper till 1912 yet he killed all those people in mystic falls long before that. Maybe he was depressed, hungry or bored, anyway it sure seemed like he was having a pretty good time doing it, wasn't a push comes to shove situation. He could have left, Damon did.
But of course Damon is worse. Always.
We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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[–] awesomebamon 8 years ago

The thing is that Stefan being a ripper doesn't mean that he is completely excused from all of the people that he killed as a ripper. Stefan murdered and killed many people as a ripper and also hurt and used women for blood as a ripper and used women as feeding bags killing them.

Damon should be held accountable and at fault for all of the people that he has killed or abused. But, in this fandom where people want to call out Damon for his wrong doings and he should be called out. There is always excuses at the same time while calling out Damon, that people in the fandom make for others.

Damon is made out to be the worst, while the others that murder in cold blood or who have abused/used/hurt people have some kind of whitewashing by their fans. They like for their fave to come off as not as bad as Damon, when their murders in cold blood are just as bad as Damon's.

Stefan murders get blamed on his ripper stage.

Klaus/Kai's get blamed on their abusive child hood, even though Damon had neglectful and abusive parents too. Whatever people can come up with to make it seem like Damon's actions are the worst and that their fave somehow has a more reasonable, acceptable, and understandable motive to kill in cold blood over what Damon has. Killing in cold blood, is killing in cold blood.

So while I agree that Damon should be held responsible for what he has done wrong. I will never agree with the whole "Good brother/Bad brother" ideal that they try to sell with the brother's. Some make it seem like the two are so far apart that Damon is the devil, while Stefan is the saint/angel and that's not truth, because Stefan has done morally corrupt things like Damon has done.

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[–] TaylorBruh25 8 years ago

Kai has no excuses, whatsoever pre-merge, after that he was different, but being different didn't excuse him from what he did before.

Stefan's binging is like alcoholic gambling, influenced and there so changes due to addiction, for me this doesn't excuse him, but gives much lee-way to his accountability since he was clean of killing with Lexi and the fact that he not only did not kill but protected human life pre-S3. That's just being a better person than Damon, not the "good brother".

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[–] awesomebamon 8 years ago

But, an addict is still accountable for what they do as an addict. A alcoholic who becomes violent when they are drunk and who hits and abuses their spouse or children doesn't completely get excused from their hurtful and harmful actions, especially knowing that they become violent while drunk and they don't get help for it. Stefan still knows that killing is wrong when he is in his ripper stage.

Doesn't mean that the alcoholic is much better than a person who abuses while sober.

And the point is that people will try to come up with reasons for why the murders that Stefan/Klaus/Kai etc commit are somehow not as bad as the ones that Damon does. People can say that Damon kills because of hurt feelings, but then will use Kai's childhood to say that is the reason for why he is why he is and for some reason that is suppose to make his motives for killing more reasonable than Damon's.

But, when you look at it other have killed for hurt and angry feelings too. Klaus killed Tyler's mother to get back at Tyler. Kai killed innocent children to try and gain power and then wanted to kill his family for revenge acting like they did him wrong, when they locked him up because of the fact that he killed his family members. But, all he could think about was his hurt feelings.

Just like how he came back from 1903 and went on a murder spree because he was angry and felt "betrayed" by Bonnie, even though Bonnie locked him up because he had hurt and abused her/left her for dead, all he could think about was his feelings. BUt, some will actually give Kai a pass for him acting out on his hurt feelings, but blaming Bonnie for locking him in 1903 or will even blame Damon and not Kai for Bonnie locking him in 1903..

When you break it down none of the others more of a motive to commit murder over what Damon has. But, some in the fandom will try to act like others reason for killing are better than Damon's reasons for killing. Killing innocent people are on the same level as bad.

The Damon fandom gets accused of whitewashing Damon's actions. When there are fans of every single character that will do the same for their fave. Don't see how it's only wrong for the Damon fandom to do it in this case.

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[–] TaylorBruh25 8 years ago

It's not just Damon's fans, it's the actual show, and that's original statement this post was about. Stefan's accountable absolutely, but he also hasn't chosen become the ripper, in fact Damon facilitated both times he became the ripper. Being abusive is bad but he also didn't choose it, it's like an alcoholic getting beer shoved down their throat. Murder is murder yes, but killing someone out of your state of mind and killing people in a temper tantrum is different.

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[–] awesomebamon 8 years ago

Which is why I don't agree with all of the writing that the show tells to sell me. They try to sell that Damon is a better man and a brother with Elena, but just because they say that doesn't mean that I buy it.

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[–] TaylorBruh25 8 years ago

That's the reasoning multiple people on the is thread are agreeing with, however people's statements are getting deflected by comparisons with Stefan and Klaus. Funny how most people's best argument (and legitimate) would be to bring up Enzo in comparison to Damon, but they won't because their bad boy bias won't admit it. So when someone brings up Damon's bad we have to hear about the bad in Stefan or else it's "unfair". Lmao.

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[–] awesomebamon 8 years ago

I actually think that Enzo is a good comparison. For all of the ways that he has hurt the Mystic Falls gang, he hasn't faced any real consequences. Especially not in Season 7. Damon did have Stefan and Bonnie rightfully angry with him for his desiccation. But, for all of the things that Enzo did, no one was that angry with him for it.

Bonnie was more upset at Damon's attempts at saving her life, then she was at Enzo for drugging her for three years and then in the deleted scene Enzo threw a stake at Bonnie to save himself and she was just okay with that. Also she wasn't really mad at him for him kidnapping Caroline for Lily.

ANd the things that he did such as raising up Rayna, locking Damon with Tyler at the Armory and pistol whipping Bonnie and putting her in danger he didn't face any real consequences for. Everyone just blamed Damon for the desiccation, including Enzo, even tho if it weren't for him then Bonnie may never have gotten hurt by Tyler in the first place in order for Damon to make that decision. Damon made it after he saw that his blood couldn't heal Bonnie and Enzo gave her the drug that prevented her from being healed.

And him raising up Rayna was what ended up causing part of so many problems.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

LOL.
Here we go. It's Damons fault that Stefan became a ripper.
No. Stefan is a ripper. It's canon (lol), that it is in his genes even if it's a retcon. Nevertheless, Damon is not responsible for the CHOICES that Stefan makes. Stefan absolutely chose to become the ripper to save Damon...it was his choice. He had free will, consequences be damned (Damon was ready to die and had accepted his fate). He also chose to turn his humanity off when Caroline threatened to kill Sarah Salvatore....consequences be damned. The only time Stefan gets a pass from me is when Klaus compelled him to turn it off. Weirdly, aside from being a bit mean to Elena he didn't actually kill anyone then, that was a missed opportunity by the writers...it would have been fun to see Stefan kill his way through MF high school... I would have forgiven him ;)

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[–] TaylorBruh25 8 years ago

Stefan flipping his switch off to save Sarah and Damon is not suiting him it's saving his family and that's a quality I wouldn't say is irredeemable, especailly since everytime he is remorseful after. Stefan's humanity was on dimmer mode with Elena and the bridge, it's stated a few times throughout the show, it's the reason Damon doesn't go after him for doing so. Stefan tearing his way through MF high would be OOC, since Stefan cares about people, in his right mind.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

Stefan flipping his switch off to save Sarah and Damon is not suiting him it's saving his family and that's a quality I wouldn't say is irredeemable,

I never said it was irredeemable, I like that he would do that to save the people he loves. Damon would do exactly the same thing. I just don't like that he pretends that he is above making those choices, that he puts human life first...because he clearly doesn't when it goes against what he wants or needs.

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] TaylorBruh25 8 years ago

He's never said he puts human life first he's not Angel, he just doesn't diregard Humans. If it's possible he wants and tries to do the right thing and keep people (Vampires, humans, witches alike) alive.

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[–] Sacrosanctme 8 years ago

Stefan did not choose to become the ripper. Damon made a mistake in thinking Stefan could tamp down that side of himself like Damon does. And, rather than be all "rippery", Damon has fits of Big Bad Vampire yet controls himself most of the time.

How exactly has Stefan been able to control his blood lust as of late? He tried squirrels and sipping from blood bags in the past and it did not work. Remind me why does it seem more relatively easy now? I simply do not remember.

While Stefan did not choose to become the ripper, Damon did not ultimately choose to become a vampire. Stefan facilitated that as he shoved a bleeding throat to Damon's mouth. So, Damon is a jerk at times and Damon throws temper tantrums that get people dead-dead.

Neither full-blown ripperdom or flying off the handle when stressed are acceptable, but I don't find them so different.

It is how they each physiologically and psychologically manifest their disease of vampirism. Neither of them want it. Damon gets cocky and "owns" it, but that seems to be a defense mechanism as in his introspective times he expresses regret and sorrow. He wouldn't disparage himself so often if he thought "being bad" was such a good thing. I think Stefan's ripperdom and Damon's volatile state of mind are bedfellows. It isn't just a temper tantrum, it is a side-effect.

Neither handle their disease well, they simply cope in different ways. If I had the choice of meeting Damon in a dark alley while his vampirism is getting the best of him or Stefan while he is The Ripper, I would choose Damon. Why? Not because he is the better, hotter, superior choice, but because at least he can be reasoned with and likes a challenge. Somehow the odds of walking out of that alley somewhat intact feel more plausible.

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[–] jordanjanellejoy 8 years ago

Forget about fandoms for a second and look at how it translates on screen. When Bonnie left Kai in 1903 and he came back and murdered his sister and then killed his coven, Kai was blamed for that.

When Kai murdered his family, wounded Jo and hunted Luke and Liv down, Kai was blamed for that. He was sent to an isolated prison world for 18 years. No one was side eyeing Joshua Parker to say he drove Kai to it.

Everything Kai did, he shouldered the responsibility, it was never deflected as automatically being someone else's fault. This is where his character differs from Damon. Someway, somehow, scapegoats are used for Damon. These writers find ways to absolve Damon from any wrongdoing. Let's be honest: had Kai used his power to force himself on one of these girls, do you think it would've been swept under the rug?

Damon is just an example of the problematic writing and favoritism on this show.

My ass may be dumb, but I ain't no dumbass...

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[–] christinaparker-60256 8 years ago

Very well said. I think you can make similar arguments for Katherine as well. Both of them ended up headless/in hell.

I love a good bad boy/girl. And if Damon had actually been kept as "bad", we wouldn't really need to have this conversation. The problem is Damon is now the HERO of the show. He isn't just the protagonist, or the anti-hero, he is the hero. His actions are constantly defended (in the show!), he is constantly being saved by the very people he has harmed, and he gets the prize (Elena. Who used to be a person and is now just a trophy).

There is a disconnect here and it muddles the show. Instead of being shown who the villains and heroes are, we have to be TOLD by the writers. Because there is no difference between what the villains do and what Damon does. There is no logical reason you can say that Damon deserves to live/be saved over Katherine or Kai whatsoever. Yet he is not punished for his actions or even held accountable for them in any way. It is incredibly frustrating to watch, especially when in recent years we have seen many a protagonist manage to also be a villain (Walter White comes to mind). Why can't Damon just be bad? WHy do we need to be convinced he is so good and worth saving?

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[–] jordanjanellejoy 8 years ago

You know what's funny? I didn't know that Katherine was actually blamed for so much until her character was killed off. When everyone was sitting around judging her, I was like....the hell?? I still don't think that she deserved to go to hell, especially when others have done just as much as she has, or worse.

I agree 100%, it is frustrating to watch. The biggest issue is lack of character growth, which it seems is actually done on purpose. I just chalk it up to the fact these writers love who Damon is, tantrums and all. They love to see a two hundred year old man behaving recklessly with little to no remorse, because that fits the whole "bad boy" appeal that makes Damon, Damon. What they fail to see is that seeing a character do the same thing every season under different circumstances, yet receiving the same results is seriously annoying. I can use the same argument for Bonnie and her, I'll die for you, be in pain and then lose my power, every season.

My ass may be dumb, but I ain't no dumbass...

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[–] DustnBones001 8 years ago

Your biggest problem among many is you wanna believe Damon is inherently bad and he's not. Your strong clear hatred of him being the beloved protagonist has blinded you into thinking he should be a one dimensional villain. Look as been said a million times in this thread. Damon has both good and bad qualities just like everyone in this show. No one is a saint here that includes Bonnie,Caroline,Alaric and even Matt. This isn't something black/white morality tale. And since you love to bring PC issues into this I have to ask why do you even watch the show? It would seem the lifetime channel would be more up your alley.

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[–] christinaparker-60256 8 years ago

LOL. Not one thing you've said here makes a lick of sense in response to my post. It's actually arguing with things I did not say. Do you really think you are insulting me or any of the others who disagree with you? We all read your posts and laugh.

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[–] DustnBones001 8 years ago

I'm not trying to insult anybody I'm just wondering why you PC nuts are even watching this show. You talk about laughing I'm sure loads of ppl that browse these boards shake their heads and laugh their ass off at all the PC threads on here. Just look at what your doing here whining about a popular character not being hated simply because you don't like him lol. It doesn't get more pathetic than that.

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[–] awesomebamon 8 years ago

There was that one time where Matt blamed Bonnie for the fall out of what happened at the start of Season 7 with the heretics and I believed that he blamed her for the Kai situation but I would have to look back at that scene to see exactly what Bonnie was blamed for.

Had Kai been redeemed then all of his wrong doings would be looked passed as well. And the people that he hurt in the gang would become his friends or at least that what I assume that some Kai fans would hope for that he would be forgiven. His actions after the merge was seen as being a hero by the fans and they hoped that him having guilt and helping to get Bonnie out of 1994 would eventually have him won over with everyone especially Bonnie.

Kai's wrongdoings if he had stayed on the show would be overlooked enough by everyone, while they would still accept him and keep him around. Just like it is with Damon,Stefan, Enzo and the others. I doubt that they would have Kai turn completely into a saint. He would still be killing every now and then like they still find ways for Damon,Stefan,Enzo, Klaus to do immoral things even though they are suppose to have phases of redemption, they aren't totally good guys.

In Bonnie's case some say that she is too forgiving and accepting of Damon right now but in another case she got bashed for not being accepting and forgiving enough of Kai.

I still think that for some it comes down to who are people's faves and who they are a Anti fan of. Kai was written as a villain so his wrongdoings aren't going to be as forgiven or given a second chance like the others. However, if he had stuck around they would eventually be overlooked enough if the writers wanted to redeem him.

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[–] jordanjanellejoy 8 years ago

I remember that, and I was very angry about it.

With that situation, again, it goes back to Damon being reinforced with teflon. No one ever mentions Damon when names are being thrown around, only Bonnie, who shouldn't be blamed either. Damon came to Bonnie with this idea, not the other way around, she didn't even want to be bothered with any of it. Afterwards they BOTH chose to trap Kai. I don't ever think it's been uttered aloud on the show has it? Bonnie has admitted somewhat that she feels guilty, or that it was her fault, but has Damon? I didn't watch the entire season so I could be wrong.

It's hard to say if Kai's wrong doings would've gone away had he stayed, because I doubt he could be totally redeemed. Katherine stayed around for five seasons, and by the time she died they blamed her for things she had no part in, and I stopped seeing Katherine as a true villain in season 2. I don't see it being any different with Kai. Even after the merge, I doubt that Kai would've been considered a "hero", I just couldn't see that happening, even if he fell in love with Bonnie.

Enzo is another example of the problematic writing. This man kidnapped Caroline and was personally responsible for creepily tormenting Stefan for a period of time and I also remembered he actually kidnapped Bonnie and Jeremy in season 5 as well, again, these little indiscretions were swept under the rug because they wanted it that way.

My ass may be dumb, but I ain't no dumbass...

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[–] awesomebamon 8 years ago

I think that it's irritating when people in the fandom try to put the sole blame on Bonnie when Damon came up with the idea. Damon was wrong in his part to ignore Bonnie's word that she wanted nothing to do with Kai and wasn't interested in any changes that Kai had made. When Damon tried to explain to her the merge thing and she told him that she didn't want to hear it, he should have respected her and left her alone on the Kai subject.

But, he didn't respect her wishes. Kai heard that Bonnie didn't want anything to do with him and if truly selfless with her and if truly putting her feelings and needs first and above himself should have given her time to get past what he put her through. But, Bonnie was just two days out of the prison world and Kai was impatient to get rid of the guilt that he was feeling and used Damon's mother to see her knowing that she didn't want to see him.

Both men at that point were being selfish and thinking about what they wanted more so than Bonnie's wishes. Perhaps she wouldn't have locked Kai in the prison world, if Damon had never brought Kai to the rave and Kai would have given her space and time. But, her ptsd had been triggered upon seeing Kai and if Bonnie felt that Kai wasn't going to respect her space, she was going to find a way to get him away from her. Maybe she feared that Kai would keep ignoring her wishes to stay away and felt like she needed to do something about it to get peace and closure from that situation.

Kai did see how triggered and uncomfortable that she was at the rave and choose of his free will to go to 1903 with her for himself and trying to ease his guilt and get on her good side for himself. And it wasn't smart of him to grab her out of anger because she wouldn't listen to him or bring up that he could gut her again. I think that those helped seal in Bonnie's mind that she was going to trap him.

Bonnie should not get the blame because it was Damon's idea and Damon was wrong on his part for bringing Kai to her when she didn't want to see him. Kai has his part to blame for invading Bonnie's space knowing that she wanted nothing to do with him and in the end Kai is to blame for Bonnie locking him in 1903, because there would be nothing that Damon could have ever said to make Bonnie want to lock Kai in 1903, if Kai was some innocent man that she had met in 1994. If Kai instead had treated her with patience and respect in 1994 to gain her trust and to get him out of the prison world, then Damon would never be able to convince Bonnie to lock up an innocent man who did her no harm.

Bonnie went along with Damon's plan because it was Kai's decision to use violence and abuse with Bonnie to try and get her under his control and to escape from the prison world.

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[–] jordanjanellejoy 8 years ago

Honestly if you look at it, neither were truly to blame, but they conspired together, yet Bonnie is the only one called out. She's even blamed herself, where as Damon has said absolutely nothing. It's like he was never apart of anything that happened and Bonnie did it all by herself.

My ass may be dumb, but I ain't no dumbass...

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[–] awesomebamon 8 years ago

Bonnie shouldn't be blamed, especially not for the choices that Kai made after he got out from 1903. She was getting back at something for what Kai did to her. She shouldn't be blamed for Kai using Elena to get back at her and Damon, anymore than Tyler should have been blamed for Klaus using his mother to get back at him. They chose to get revenge by hurting people that didn't even directly hurt him.

Blaming anyone for Kai's murder rampage makes as much sense to me as blaming someone else besides Klaus first for killing Tyler's mom. Klaus and Kai used revenge as a reason, but used their anger at someone else to hurt people who didn't directly hurt them for revenge. Can't say that Bonnie is to blame for Kai's choice in killing Jo. Like Damon murdering a line of family members because of being upset at what the Augustine society did to him. They all are individually accountable for their reasons of killing people and hurting people.

And some seem to focus on revenge being wrong when Bonnie does it, when all of the characters have used revenge as a motive to kill, hurt and murder. Bonnie going after someone who directly hurt her, is more defendable than Klaus killing Tyler's mother.

Also Bonnie gets blamed for Elena' coma because she didn't forgive Kai and locked him in the prison world, but some forget about when Elena said that she didn't care about Bonnie being in trouble with Silas because she wanted to kill Katherine. So all of them pretty much have been focused on revenge at some point during the series. Bonnie just gets the focus because some in the fandom hold her to higher standards than they do the other characters when it comes to rules and morals or codes and I think that it's unfair.

Those who ignore Damon's part of the plan are usually Bonnie haters anyway.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

The fact is Bonnie made her own decision join the party. Her blood was the only thing required to allow Damon and Kai to travel to the 1903 PW and she gave that. Her desire get revenge on Kai, at (Damons suggestion granted) proved to much of a temptation to pass up.
Ultimately it was her decision. Her choice and in Bonnie's own words...there is always a choice. Bonnie chose revenge, and there were consequences to that choice. A choice that someone else paid the price for.......and that might be some karma for both Damon and Elena to deal with....and they are. It blows but they are both kinda taking it on the chin.. even if Damon has whined about at times, he has stuck to his decision.

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[–] awesomebamon 8 years ago

It was Kai's choice in the end to come back and did what he did after 1903. If he was really that changed and had such a good heart because of the merge he could have chosen not to do it. Some say that Bonnie made the choice to get back at Kai. But, Kai made the choice to torment and abuse Bonnie in 1994, made the choice to invade her space and try to force and rush her forgiveness after she returned from 1994 and knew right from wrong when he chose to go on a murder spree post 1903.

There is also the fact that not only did Damon come up with the plan, but Lily revealed to to him that she put in Kai's mind to link Bonnie with Elena and put Elena into a coma as payback against Damon. Kai had a choice to refuse, Bonnie didn't force him to make the decisions that he did after 1903.

And there is the fact that Bonnie has had to pay the decisions and got hurt, because Elena has some wrong decisions, like when Bonnie's mother had to get turned because of Elena. Or Elena made the choice to try and kill Bonnie twice without her humanity, yet Elena gets a pass, while Bonnie is bashed for any move that hurts ELena.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

Hello, waves arms around,
Did you guys not watch S7 when Damon was literally blamed for everything?

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

Kai was human and killed his siblings because of daddy issues and they were a threat to his "inheritance".
Damon did not kill anyone in his family despite the abuse from his father. He nurtured and protected and loved his brother through it all. Damon was angry at Stefan when they both turned for reasons already stated on the show but he didn't try to kill him...he left him to Lexie because he tried to control Stefan and couldn't. Damon was not a killer by choice, but by necessity.... to survive until Sage showed him another way to live 50 years later. Lexie showed Stefan one way to live and Sage showed Damon another.
In S1 Damon very much shouldered the guilt and responsibility for his own actions, absolving Stefan from the guilt that Damon knew he was carrying...it was a kind thing to do but in typical Damon fashion he hides that altruism behind a half truth that he knows Stefan will believe because Damon does not want show his own vulnerability.....that he cares....that he feels remorse. This is shown in 2x22 when Damon is dying from the werewolf bite....he knows and has always known that he was being played by Katherine and he let her....he had a choice but chose to delude himself. He blamed Stefan when he should have blamed Katherine and himself and said he was sorry for that. He wanted Stefan to know that.
Damon is not Kai, he didn't kill his family for his mistakes. He might have pretended to be angry for a few centuries lol, but when all is said and done Damon would not kill his family. If any of the flashbacks have showed us anything, despite what Damon said to Stefan in anger about an eternity of misery, yada yada, he hasn't intentionally followed through on that promise. What we have actually seen in canon, is a desire to reconnect with his brother even if they weren't always on the same page.
I don't see that with Kai, like at all.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

Since you are one of the people who just love to jump on the PC brigade bandwagon of morality and apply real life scenarios to fantasy. How to you reconcile your argument that in real life, being an alcoholic is not seen as mitigation for committing crime in the "real world"?.
I was drunk your honor, does not cut it. much like well I'm a vampire doesn't....in your view anyway. see?

Anyway. Stefan was not always "clean" as you put it. There was a flashback in S5 that showed that Stefan was an active vampire, feeding on humans even if he wasn't ripping heads off. Man of fire... 5x19 I think.
Also I think people confuse Ripper Stefan and no humanity Stefan. Ripper Stefan is very much humanity ON..... that's why he puts the bodies back together...guilt. No humanity Stef doesn't care about that.
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[–] awesomebamon 8 years ago

I will say that in the case of being addicted to drinking, that if a person got drunk and got behind the wheel and killed someone while in DUI, that they wouldn't in the eyes of the law be completely blame or fault free, just because they didn't intend to kill a person and just because they couldn't control the need to drink from being an alcoholic. The law wouldn't be (You couldn't help or control your addiction, so you won't face consequences or prison time) And they would or should face prison time for them recklessly killing someone even if they wouldn't have chosen to kill someone while sober. Recklessly and unintentionally killing someone in the real world still has it's consequences and in the real world it's called reckless homicide or manslaugther.

Nor does the people who get drunk and kill someone by "accident" doesn't ease the family members pain who lost their loved one, just because their loved one wasn't killed intentionally doesn't mean that they will face less pain over any other family who loses a loved one in another way.

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[–] TaylorBruh25 8 years ago

I'm not on a PC bridgade, I'm using a metaphor, being regulary drunk isn't the metaphor, having a few bottles of beer shoved down your throat and having to drive is more like it. He stated in 5x19 he was trying to learn to feed on humans, he just scared Maggie, and it was for his brother, who then framed him for murdering said woman.

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[–] DeltaParadox 8 years ago

I like his character, he's fun to watch. BUT Damon is terrible. He's a former serial killer so that kinda makes him terrible.

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[–] DustnBones001 8 years ago

Actually that would be ripper Stefan

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[–] DeltaParadox 8 years ago

Well they're both former serial killers, the difference is that Stefan couldn't control it much.

All that being said, practically everyone in this show is bad or has been bad at some point. (except maybe Lexi)

I admit at first I was put off by it, but heck it's part of the show, and i've liked every season of the show (although the heretics and the travelers annoyed the heck out of me)

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[–] DustnBones001 8 years ago

lol well duh there both vampires it would be extremely unrealistic to not have shown them killing but I would still argue they aren't serial killers. They don't get a joy from killing well at least with their humanity switch on. Ripper stefan is a whole different story lol.

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[–] DeltaParadox 8 years ago

Yeah I see your point but many of the characters do seem to get a joy from killing (Enzo killed several people and his switch was on) and it has been shown that it's not necessary for vampires to kill humans as they can just feed on them and compel them to forget.
But I agree it would be stupid to have a vampire show were all the vampires are benevolent that would be boring lol.
As for Damon, well obviously he's done alot of bad things but when he "raped" Caroline for example his humanity switch was off, and when Caroline's switch was off she went on a killing spree so I think it's silly when people dwell on that. Especially since many of those same people were big fans of Katherine and she did the same things Damon did, in fact she did it to Damon and Stefan lol.
Although I did like Damon better as a villain than as a protagonist.
I agree with alot of what you said about people taking things too seriously and not just enjoying the show for what it is, entertainment.

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[–] ursulazsenya 8 years ago

As for Damon, well obviously he's done alot of bad things but when he "raped" Caroline for example his humanity switch was off, and when Caroline's switch was off she went on a killing spree so I think it's silly when people dwell on that. Especially since many of those same people were big fans of Katherine and she did the same things Damon did, in fact she did it to Damon and Stefan lol.

No, his humanity switch was on. It was also on when he was raping/enslaving Andi Starr, and weeping in agony over that. A lot of people (me included) have pointed out that Katherine raped Stefan; and that Caroline at the very least sexually abused Liam when she compelled him to make out with her. It gets lost in these discussions because the focus tends to shift to comparing/defending Damon against specific romantic rivals - Stefan, and Kai for the Delena and Bamon shippers respectively, and not having an actual discussion on this topic.

Although I did like Damon better as a villain than as a protagonist.

You and the almost 3 million viewers that have stopped watching the show.

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[–] DustnBones001 8 years ago

Well at least you understand the show is just entertainment. It's not meant to be taken seriously like so many are sadly doing in this thread. Like you said it would be boring as sh!t if the vampires on the show were always benevolent lol. it would get old fast not to mention boring the majority of the viewers to tears every week. Also being completely unauthentic to vampire lore.

And as far as you liking Damon being the villain well I also did enjoy his villain tendencies in the first season the thing is he was never meant to be an actual villain of the story. That seems to be the major issue here so many wish that Damon is inherently bad and hes not. His also not the hero of the story either. He is anti hero if anything else.

It's one of the things I love about this show there is no clear cut simplistic good vs evil. There are lots of shades of grey with all the characters who have all done some messed up sh!t.

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[–] DeltaParadox 8 years ago

hmm that's a good point. heck many of my favorite TV characters are both villain and hero at one point (Dexter Morgan, Vic Mackey, Jack Bauer, Jamie Lannister, Ben Linus, etc). It does make the shows more interesting.
Although my favorite villain in vampire diaries has to be Kai, his character is practically the only reason I really liked Season 6.

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[–] HP_HG_Fan 8 years ago

How dare people object to rape happening on a show viewed by millions yet never being acknowledged? Is it possible to get any more PC?

S.P.E.R.M member 270

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[–] DustnBones001 8 years ago

You people need to learn to leave social issues out of entertainment. This show is fiction its not reality I watch this show to escape reality not be preached to by PC nuts. Not to mention its vampire nature to compel people so I guess using your guys logic Katherine raped Stefan and Damon right??? Pls get over yourselves and leave this social justice crap out of entertainment and stick to watching the Disney channel.

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[–] TaylorBruh25 8 years ago

Our logic is not "ours" but definitive logic, yes Stefan and Damon (was Damon's fear compelled away?) were raped by Katherine. You see, she was a villain, treated like a villain and forgiven by everyone in the show besides Stefan and Elena. Elena forgiving her because of her messed up past and Stefan forgiving her for how'd she been. Once she betrayed their forgiveness again, they actually got together like a group for once and Killed her. The last time anyone from the gang that tried to consciously kill Damon was in S2 I believe.

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[–] TaylorBruh25 8 years ago

Unforgiven*

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[–] DustnBones001 8 years ago

Yeah you guys need to stick with watching the Disney channel

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[–] TaylorBruh25 8 years ago

Your childlike comeback makes no sense.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

Bonnie tried to kill him in S2, JS!. Aside from her, the gang, including Stefan stopped trying to kill Damon when he became all about team Elena. He is/was often relied upon to do the "bad" thing in the name of keeping Elena alive, therefore the gang tacitly condone what he does. As the seasons have progressed, characters like Caroline, Stefan, Tyler and Elena have been shown to adopt similar behaviour when a loved one is in danger, collateral damage be damned.
Damon is still not "forgiven" by everyone on the show, not fully anyway despite showing with his actions that he is just as capable of remorse as others, and just as capable of selflessness and heroism. It's right there in the show as far back as S2.
Stefan he's been a villain a few times yet the gang have never tried to kill him, not once. You could argue that over the stretch of the entire series, Stefan has been a villain for a much larger part of it than Damon but has never faced any direct consequences for his actions.

Not many true Damon fans will argue that he is the most compassionate, the most selfless, the most heroic all of the time, just that he isn't inherently bad.
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[–] DustnBones001 8 years ago

EXACTLY!!! Well said finally someone gets it. As a huge Damon fan I will never claim that he does heroic things majority of the time but I will argue until the end of the earth that he isn't inherently bad as you said.

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[–] HP_HG_Fan 8 years ago

Yes, Katherine raped Stefan but didn't compel Damon. Stefan hated her throughout the show and his anger was validated. She eventually got what she deserved.

I watch shows with multiple rape scenes, it's not something that I can't handle. The difference is that the act is acknowledged as rape, the rapist isn't romanticised and the victim isn't made to look petty for hating them.

S.P.E.R.M member 270

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[–] DustnBones001 8 years ago

I'm extremely grateful to not have the PC mentality you guys suffer from. You remind of the morons that blame video games and movies for ppl committing violent acts.

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[–] christinaparker-60256 8 years ago

Glad we could make you feel good about yourself. :)

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[–] DustnBones001 8 years ago

Let me guess you probably think that all the people that play GTA 5 wanna hijack cars and kill strippers right? lol

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

I think it's a futile endeavor to try to apply a PC mentality to a show that has zero intention of being PC in any way. It's a show about teens that drink to much, smoke weed, have loads of sex, kill people, fall in love with vampires, come back from the dead and change species on regular basis.
What is interesting to me is watching how the supernatural world has changed and corrupted their humanity and shifted every single characters moral compass so far that none of them seem to know where true North is anymore. I say bring it, it's more fun that way.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

es, Katherine raped Stefan but didn't compel Damon. Stefan hated her throughout the show and his anger was validated. She eventually got what she deserved.

He hated her so much he slept with her. He was nice to her, saved her life and gave her lovely dreams on her death bed and forgave her everything (even rape according to you) and Katherine threw it back in his face because in the end she had learned nothing and was still inherently selfish. Katherine died a villain because she was one, right up until the bitter end.

Fundamentally it comes down to how people interpret the compulsion on the show when they watch it. It isn't real so it's not really comparable to real life since the writers have the control about how they wish the act the be viewed within the show's universe. It is not the intent of the writers to have what Damon, Stefan, Katherine etc did to their victims using compulsion to be viewed as rape and that is how it has been consistently written from the word go. That is how I also view and understand the story so therefore the characters actions and reactions make sense to me on this issue.

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[–] TearTheStarsOutFromTheSky 8 years ago

I love Damon except for season 5 and 7.

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[–] angrygemini 8 years ago

Killing Vicki after turning her, and her brother thinking she had abandoned him like his mother is just the tip of the iceberg. He is a POS through and through.

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[–] mymammakat 8 years ago

Um, Stefan killed Vicki after Damon turned her
We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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[–] Jinx_jin 8 years ago

Did you mean Stefan is a pos?

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