MovieChat Forums > It (2017) Discussion > There was a group orgy in the book. And ...

There was a group orgy in the book. And they were 11!

posted 7 years ago by [deleted]
35 replies | jump to latest

What do you guys think of this? I haven't read the part, but apparently its a few pages long and it more or less goes like this.... after defeating the clown, they are all disheartened that Beverly allows them all to do her. Sort of like a team building opportunity. King goes as far as saying that only a few of them could get her to climax.

Some have called out King as nothing but a sick pevert for even writing such a thing.

Others have said that it was extremely sexist because Beverly is using sex as a tool to aid men (well actually boys) in overcoming their issues. That women should not be sex slaves who are there to pleasure men for their sake.

Finally, King himself tried to distance himself from it saying that the sex scene takes place from the perspective of an adult looking back. Maybe it happened, maybe it didn´t. Maybe its an artistic device to use sex as a bridging moment between childhood and adulthood (again, these are 11 year olds in the book)

[–] ItalianBuju (793) 7 years ago

That is far from the only strange sex scene he wrote. He has a brilliant mind for the unusual, sometimes it includes sex. It doesn't mean he has desires that are unnatural or anything. He writes a lot about death and murder too but doesn't go around killing people....

[–] lasteven (309) 7 years ago

I remember reading the book and getting to that scene, and I understand it struck a lot of people really badly. For some reason it made sense to me at the time, or maybe I just drank the Kool-Aid of what King seemed to be trying to say -- they had a tight, unbreakable bond, and they were ka-tet (to use the term from his Dark Tower series). I'm not sure that six separate and sequential acts of consensual sexual intercourse counts as a group orgy, but I really do see why it strikes people as very weird and suspect for the age of the people involved.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

well for the boys, it is most likely prepubescent sex, which is different to if they were teenagers.

The bully also gets a hand job from his mate and beats him up when his mate wants to give him a BJ. Weird imagination. Maybe even a gay slur, that bullies are mean because of unresolved sexuality.

[–] AngularTurnip (3337) 7 years ago

Grady Hendrix at Tor thinks the orgy is the heart of the book:

"It draws a hard border between childhood and adulthood and the people on either side of that fence may as well be two separate species. The passage of that border is usually sex, and losing your virginity is the stamp in your passport that lets you know that you are no longer a child (sexual maturity, in most cultures, occurs around 12 or 13 years old). Beverly is the one in the book who helps her friends go from being magical, simple children to complicated, real adults. If there’s any doubt that this is the heart of the book then check out the title. After all “It” is what we call sex before we have it. “Did you do it? Did he want to do it? Are they doing it? ... In a way, It is a sex positive antidote, a way for King to tell kids that sex, even unplanned sex, even sex that’s kind of weird, even sex where a girl loses her virginity in the sewer, can be powerful and beautiful if the people having it truly respect and like each other. That’s a braver message than some other authors have been willing to deliver."

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

That's some massive spin if I ever heard one. She didn't lose her virginity either.

If they were 12 it would be borderline, but 11? That's pretty young for most people. If I were to intellectualise it, given that she was being sexually abused by her father, you might say that she is accustomed to using sex to win people over, or quell someone who is in an altered state of mind.

Sex as a bonding ritual does take place. I've heard of football teams who tag-team a girl (and I mean the entire team) and some have said that they partook because it was a group bonding experience.

[–] lasteven (309) 7 years ago

Do you mean that she had already lost her virginity prior to the scene with the other Losers in the sewer? It's been ages since I read the book, but I remember a scene where Beverly's father checks her to make sure she hasn't lost her virginity yet (because she's friends with so many boys now), but I can't remember her having lost her virginity prior to the sewer scene. Do you remember which section that was in?

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Oh, I just thought that he would have had penetrative sex. But I guess he could just be a molester. I haven't read the book.

[–] crc32 (2584) 7 years ago

Her father had lots of intercourse with her so I don't recall or understand how he expects to check her virginity sense I'm sure he destroyed all evidence of it by now. Beverly is accused of being promiscous by alot of adults in the town. Not sure if this is due to her only hanging around boys or if they knew of encounters with her and other boys but iI remember its implied she's not a virgin at this point.

[–] crc32 (2584) 7 years ago

I'm not sure that six separate and sequential acts of consensual sexual intercourse counts as a group orgy, but I really do see why it strikes people as very weird and suspect for the age of the people involved.

Beverly was pulling a train which is a form of orgy any way you look at it. The book was also supposed to be taking place in the 50s. The sexual explosion didn't happen untill the late 60s early 70s and tapered off during the aids scare of the 80s.

Today first age of intercourse is on the rise to the point that only half the population has engaged in intercourse by age 18. When I was in high school 86% of the population had already done it by age 18. I was dumbfounded but not disapointed to hear so many girls admit to being sexually in experienced when I was near graduation from college. I had always figured the population would become more promiscues with each successive generation.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Gang bang might be the more accurate term, since it was six on one.

[–] einstein (2561) 7 years ago

you know what this might be the best contribution to this board, i didnt know there was an orgy, but i feel betrayed they cut this out, thx for the info

[–] crc32 (2584) 7 years ago

It was cut from network and the movie version of the story. Honestly it was really awkward reading it in the book. Like king was trying to pretend he was a nieve kid. One boy gets scared that it won't fit and he doesn't want to tear her up and she encourages him telling him it will stretch and not to worry about it. Like wtf. It was a repulsive scene in the book that we all tried to forget. Then theirs stupid dialog where she's telling one boy to show her how to fly(Her term for orgasm it seems). Then bizare talks about sparks of energy leaving her body and entering his through his penis. Like totally disgusting when you remember these are 11 year olds.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

When King was asked about this during an interview, the best explanation for it was that at the time, he was drinking very heavily.

[–] crc32 (2584) 7 years ago

The orgy spanned a lot of pages (It was intermixed with other flash backs If I remember). I suspect king was very coherent and consious of the material he was writing.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

King was often smashed while he wrote. He admitted to that in his book "On Writing". He was a pretty serious alcoholic.

[–] crc32 (2584) 7 years ago

So did he have an awsome editor to try to make his stories coherent during a drinking binge?

[–] allaf (63) 7 years ago

And how old is the girl in the book ?

[–] crc32 (2584) 7 years ago

11 years old. She was sexually abused and the adults in the town already had her labled as a slut. Parents didn't want their boys hanging out with her. Also note this is all taking place in the 1950s at this point.

[–] agoodvintage (27) 7 years ago

The way I took it after reading the book is that it's a matter of life and death and they end up doing the only thing left that makes sense to them. The very last thing; and I think it's somewhat unfair to call it an orgy thinking it in a 'porn' sense, but I understand that it's a conclusion which pops into people's mind when they hear of it.
Yes, in its most basic, laconic sense it's a morale boost in the book.
But when one who reads the book gets to that passage the kids have been through a devastating experience, seen the most unbelievable things, experienced terror on every level in a community stricken with horror and murder in which they've been ignored by the adults; they've wandered through sewers in pitch black darkness for hours and have absolutely no idea which direction to take to escape. They are literally on the verge of death and despair and time is running out. It feels like a completely hopeless situation.
It's not an orgy in the sense of ... shall we say adults doing it in porn, for them it's an awkward and uneasy experience and nothing sexy and arousing about it.

[–] crc32 (2584) 7 years ago

Yes, in its most basic, laconic sense it's a morale boost in the book.
But when one who reads the book gets to that passage the kids have been through a devastating experience, seen the most unbelievable

I don't know. In that situation I woulden't really want to strip down in a dark wet sewer (That would make me feel even more vulnerable). When your lost and scared your not really thinking about sex I know it happens in movies alot I just don't see people getting stupid when their sense of self preservation is at an all time high. And 11 year olds I would think would have even less sex on their minds. This just isn't a realistic portrayel of 11 year old behavior.

[–] waynesky777 (75) 7 years ago

Because that is what is "horror" these days. Perversion outdoing perversion.

King is no different, a pervert at his core, and a violent one.

[–] crc32 (2584) 7 years ago

Others have said that it was extremely sexist because Beverly is using sex as a tool to aid men (well actually boys) in overcoming their issues. That women should not be sex slaves who are there to pleasure men for their sake.
[/quote]
It was beverl's idea. Most of the boys were portrayed as if they didn't even know what sex was (Which is nieve for 11 yearolds). Beverly was portrayed as having been sexually abused by her father so she was just acting out that behavior to stop the boys from fighting when they got lost in the sewers. Like she literally tells them to stick their thing in her thing cause thats what adults do when they need help getting along with each other. Yes the scene was tastless and degrades beverly's charatcer as it pretty much affirms that she's promiscuious which the adults of te town were already accusing her of being.

[quote]
Finally, King himself tried to distance himself from it saying that the sex scene takes place from the perspective of an adult looking back. Maybe it happened, maybe it didn´t. Maybe its an artistic device to use sex as a bridging moment between childhood and adulthood (again, these are 11 year olds in the book)

King knows he messed up so he was trying to claim its the demarcation point where the children became adults. IE they just killed an ancient demon in clown form so they need this last hurdle to become adults. Trouble is sex at 11 only occurs through some kind of sexual abuse. Boys and girls typically arn't even attracted to each other at that age and only try to "go out" when they are trying to imitate adults rather then forming actual relationships.

[–] femmemuscle (110) 6 years ago

Crc,

I hate to tell you this... But actually in many cases? Many cases of early sex does not occur through sexual abuse. I worked in the OB/Gyn ward, and i've had some interesting young ladies come in having consensual sex before 12 years of age. Some of them are taught by their mothers that it's okay. Many of the the mom's show up with their daughters for the ultrasound. Some are surprised and pissed off. They aren't upset that the child had consensual sex, it's the fact that the child had "unprotected" sex.. Some of them are happy as can be.

The youngest females i've had to work with, were between the ages of 11 years of age. At 12, yes 12, many of them were already pregnant. Yes eggs are developing from that age..

This happened a lot on the Native American reservations, Eastern continents, Brazil, South America, Mexico, places in the Middle East, young african american girls (urban areas), as well as young caucasian girls right here in the USA as well (especially in rural areas). It was not only cultural, but it had a lot to do with poverty level.

They willfully have sex at young age, because, well, in many cases - it's what they're brought up to do. Have kids, so start early for the benefits. In some instances, i've seen in rural areas, where it's almost like a competition or a form of bonding.

And let's not talk about the mormons, where they are popping babies out just as early for the "sake of religion".. where we know full-well, what that's all about.

There are some cultures/males/families that believe the "younger the female, the stronger the child".. Where it's actually the opposite. If the female's eggs aren't fully developed, there are more risks of having pathologies. It's the same as when the female is too old, and her eggs are near their "end of life"

There are risks at both ends of the spectrum.

It would be nice to believe that it's not true? And that parents or single mothers train their children to keep their legs closed until they reach a certain age before having sex? But in the real world.. It's not the case.

[–] crc32 (2584) 6 years ago

If your in the medical field then you know sex at that age is in the fringe group. The median age for 1st intercourse in the US currently between 17 and 18. The percentage of people 14 and under that have had sex is at around 10%. For those around 11 and under stand around 4%. The bulk of first intercourse is clearly around 15 to 19.

https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/american-teens-sexual-and-reproductive-health
At age 10 and 11 girls are still grossed out by boys, and boys are still competing with girls. They can barely stand each other. Hormones don't really become the norm untill around 13 and 14, and a seemingly unstoppable force by 18.

And your comments about the morman faith are pretty outdated. Modern members of the latter day saints ban sexuality untill after marriage. While mormans still get married fairly early by millennial standards(Mormans around 18 to 21, melinials post 30) They are no where near age 11.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

I'm just glad little Eddie, my favourite of the whole lot of them, was the first to fuck her, with help from her, of course.

[–] femmemuscle (110) 6 years ago

Stephen King has his moments.. And i still wonder about that whole scenario. Why did he even put it in there?

Well, The same goes for George Lucas. He's still trying to distance himself from the scene where Leia and Luke give each other that kiss in The Empire Strikes Back. If that were real life, i could understand where they didn't know they were brother and sister.. But that was a movie.. where the hell did that even come from?

And other weird stuff in the American Graffiti..

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

Perhaps for the Special Editions, Lucas should've CUT OUT that entire scene?

[–] Lootrock (149) 6 years ago

Well they didn't grow up as siblings right? An alarmingly high percentage of long lost siblings/parents of the opposite sex report strong sexual feelings for the other person. I was shocked to find that out. It's close to 50% I believe