MovieChat Forums > Suicide Squad (2016) Discussion > If it makes 670 milllon ww, it could sti...

If it makes 670 milllon ww, it could still be 40 million in the red:

posted 8 years ago by gogoschka-1
195 replies | jump to latest

Edit: I'm NOT calling this film a flop, nor am I a Marvel shill who's out to bash the DCEU. This post is meant to illustrate how corporate filmmaking works. Suicide Squad not making a profit during it's theatrical run was always a calculated loss: contrary to popular belief, most megabudget productions don't turn a profit through box office performance alone, not even the ones making between 600 - 800 million dollars.

Suicide Squad’s numbers (rough estimates, but based one the numbers from films of similar size):

REVENUE (by the end of its theatrical run):
Revenue from theatrical rental
Domestic: approx. 300 million, studio gets 55% = 165 million
Foreign: approx. 370 million, studio gets 40 % = 148 million
Combined revenue (all of the above): 313 million

COSTS:
Net production budget: 175 million
Marketing/releasing costs (domestic)): 80 million (estimate based on films of similar size)
Marketing/releasing costs (abroad): 80 million (estimate based on films of similar size)
Overhead: 17.5 million
Combined costs (all of the above): 352.5 million

313 million minus 352.5 million = -39,5 million (in the red)

And that figure doesn’t even factor in participations (back end deals for Smith, Leto, Robbie, Ayer and many others).

Naturally, this product will break even in the long run through ancillary revenue, though I doubt the corporation WB belongs to will consider it a winner. The real issue in the case of this product was not the little loss it suffered (that was calculated, although the studio certainly hoped it would make more money). What really hurt was the lukewarm reception from audiences and the scathing reviews from critics, because THAT jeopardizes what products like Suicide Squad are actually made for: to generate a never-ending stream of ancillary revenue through TV rights, DVD and Bluray sales, sequels, toys, spin-offs (film and TV), TV-shows and tie-ins, video games, books and comic books, soundtracks and even theme park rides and muscials.

Now instead of just insulting me, if you doubt what I'm writing here, somebody who's much smarter than me summerizes what the actual logic behind these tentpoles is here (in case, you'd rather just insult me, though, go ahead, but at least try to be creative):

Part 1:http://iveybusinessreview.ca/blogs/lbolukhba2010/2014/02/28/the-future-of-film-i-what-happened-to-summer-2013/

Part 2: http://iveybusinessreview.ca/blogs/lbolukhba2010/2014/03/01/future-of-film-ii-la-fin-du-cinema/

Part 3: http://iveybusinessreview.ca/blogs/lbolukhba2010/2014/03/02/future-of-film-iii-the-entertainment-as-a-service-crash/

Once you've read all this, you also realise why most of these products are declining in quality with regards to their storytelling.

The slightly more entertaining version of the above you can read here:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/why-blockbuster-movie-bubble-will-burst-in-2018/

and here: http://www.cracked.com/article_19012_5-hollywood-secrets-that-explain-why-so-many-movies-suck_p2.html

"The complication had a little complication."

[–] 8 years ago

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] kitsunegames 8 years ago

LIST OF MARVEL FLOPS PEOPLE according to this topic.

Iron man 1
Iron man 2,
captain america 1
captain america 2
thor 1
thor 2
ant man
hulk
incredible hulk

even guardians is borderline flop and might not break even.

even the last 4 spider man movies are actually flop according to the OP's *beep*

wow evn civil war underperformed 250 bdget 150 marketing and inlcuding all those star power cast and just 1.15B? really? seems like a flop right. wow so much for a "successful" franchise

wow a lot of flopp movies there. gadd dammn the avenger movies saved these marvel catastrophe

[–] gogoschka-1 8 years ago

wow evn civil war underperformed 250 bdget 150 marketing and inlcuding all those star power cast and just 1.15B? really? seems like a flop right. wow so much for a "successful" franchise

wow a lot of flopp movies there. gadd dammn the avenger movies saved these marvel catastrophe

Those films are not flops in the traditional sense, it all depends why a film gets made and what it sets out to achieve. For films that need to start a franchise, making a big profit is less important than creating huge brand awareness and being a embraced by fans and critics. Batman Begins, Captain America I, Thor I, X-Men: First Class and Ant-Man are all good examples for this.

And yes, all those fims are so expensive to make (even more once the actors become stars with huge back end deals like R.Downey Jr) that they all only make big profits through ancillary revenue - unless they make a billion dollars. But this is corporate filmmaking: the studio is well aware they will not make a huge profit on most of those films, especially not if it's a first entry in a planned franchise.

It might sound paradoxical to most people, but the film business is responsible for such a tiny part of the overall income of the huge conglomerates the studios are part of, that despite smaller and smaller profit margins for huge tentpoles, they still can afford to make those gambles.

And while a film with a net production budget of 175 million only doing 600-700 million is a disappointment, it's a calculated disappointment, because a lot of money will come through merchandising, TV rights and home entertainment (which is of course the main source of revenue for all these mega-budget films). It's also about having huge market shares with a tentpole and creating brand awareness.

But in the (recently very rare) case one of those tentpole works, it creates opportunities for all the other divisions of the conglomerate for years to come (it will spawn sequels, TV/Film spin-offs, sell soundtracks, toys, inspire theme park rides, video games, books and comic books and so on).

That's the sole motivation why those films get made. It's also the reason why most of them are so bad.

Read these two interviews, they're rather educational (especially the one with Bill Mechanic, former head of studio 20th Century Fox):

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/hollywood/interviews/mechanic.html

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/hollywood/interviews/natale.html

"The complication had a little complication."

[–] kitsunegames 8 years ago

shut up. let this sink in.

LIST OF MARVEL FLOPS PEOPLE according to this topic.

Iron man 1
Iron man 2,
captain america 1
captain america 2
thor 1
thor 2
ant man
hulk
incredible hulk

[–] gogoschka-1 8 years ago

shut up. let this sink in.

LIST OF MARVEL FLOPS PEOPLE according to this topic.

Iron man 1
Iron man 2,
captain america 1
captain america 2
thor 1
thor 2
ant man
hulk
incredible hulk

Lol, you can't offend me, kid. And it's ok for you to love the film: nobody's trying to take that away from you, so relax. And you should count yourself lucky, because you're part of a majority who actually likes those products the industry keeps churning out. And you are right, by the way, all those films you mentioned failed to generate a profit during their theatrical run - but that's true for almost all of those tentpoles. Those products don't NEED to turn a profit during their theatrical run (a point I tried to get across to you, albeit not very successfully.

Pay attention now, and you might actually learn something here. Basically, all those films - regardless which studio makes them - are basically just giant, expensive ads for the corporations the studios belong to. They serve to grant them x amount of marktet share while generating awareness for all the many things those companies want to sell you in the future. Those films you so love serve as a launching platform for sequels, spin-offs, toys, TV-shows, soundtracks, theme park rides, musicals, books, comic books and so on. And luckily for you, all you have to do is to continue to consume the what they serve you: and they will continue to serve you more of it.

Aren't you a happy chap!

"The complication had a little complication."

[–] MachoManRandySavage 8 years ago

This guy is just repeating his own posts. He's too lazy to even answer legitimate criticisms of his opinions.

[–] gogoschka-1 8 years ago

This guy is just repeating his own posts.

True, saves a lot of time, and since people like the poster above just repeat the same criticism over and over again - without even considering my answers, why should I make the effort to write something new?

He's too lazy to even answer legitimate criticisms of his opinions.

Now that is a completely unfounded accusation. I've so far addressed all those legitimate criticisms, even those by people like you and the poster above - despite your obvious rudeness. But peace, bro; I'm not bashing what you like: just trying to make a point about the state of corporate filmmaking. You don't have to agree with me, but calling me stupid will not make anything you say more valid.

"The complication had a little complication."

[–] MachoManRandySavage 8 years ago

Did I call you stupid? I called you lazy, which you are. You think your opinions are so rock solid that you just repeat them as fact...that's lazy debating.

Your answers are all based on misinformation anyway. Hollywood accounting is completely bogus, and that's a well known fact. You spouting off like some authority figure is ridiculous.

My criticisms are very legit, and your phrasing it as if there are legit criticisms and then there are people like me is just as rude, so get off your high horse you pompous pretend know it all.

[–] gogoschka-1 8 years ago



"The complication had a little complication."

[–] 8 years ago

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[–] Hold_the_door 8 years ago

If it makes $670 million ww WB is going to loose at least $5 trillion. Maybe even 10!

[–] gogoschka-1 8 years ago

Lol, now you must be one of those people tabloid media was invented for. But as long as you just read the headlines, why bother to respond to a post at all?

"The complication had a little complication."

[–] Hold_the_door 8 years ago

Maybe because I didn't just read the headline? I read the whole post, and I just made fun saying it will loose that much of money. If you knew my reply was OBVIOUSLY a silly joke, why bother to respond to it at all?

[–] gogoschka-1 8 years ago

Maybe because I didn't just read the headline? I read the whole post, and I just made fun saying it will loose that much of money. If you knew my reply was OBVIOUSLY a silly joke, why bother to respond to it at all?

Lol, I concede. Fair enough. At least by answering your post I could provoke you to answer mine in turn and I now have more knowledge than before: namely that you did indeed read the whole original post and not just the headlines 

"The complication had a little complication."

[–] Hold_the_door 8 years ago

Hahahaha that's true.
Anyway, I must say I don't think Suicide Squad is going to loose any money. I just think its theatrical profit will be small. Bigger than MoS and BvS, but smaller for example than Guardians of the Galaxy. It's probably going to make most of its profit by DVD sales and streaming.

[–] Jonathan-Doe 8 years ago

ALL of the DCEU movies have lost money in theaters.

[–] Umbragom 8 years ago

Who cares about your personal opinion, kid. You're nothing but a salty cry baby.

[–] Jonathan-Doe 8 years ago

His post is super-retarded because he claims to have read everything and then still says Suicide Squad is going to turn a profit. 

[–] Hold_the_door 8 years ago

Maybe because I don't think what the post says is real?

[–] Jonathan-Doe 8 years ago

Are you also a member of the Flat Earth Society? 

[–] Umbragom 8 years ago

But that's your personal opinion, which doesn't amount to squat.

[–] Hold_the_door 8 years ago

So does anyone's opinion. They are just opinions. Only Warner Bros know if they are going to make money or not.

[–] Umbragom 8 years ago

Except not all opinions are created equal. Yours is uninformed, you aren't listening to reason, just rationalizing and trying to change the argument to one you think you can "win". That's a personality flaw, child, not a strategy.

[–] Hold_the_door 8 years ago

Oh hi Umbragom. How are you?
Still thinking I'm dumb because I didn't use a period once?

[–] Umbragom 8 years ago

Trying to change the argument, huh, kid, because you know you've lost in this thread. Tell us all again how you "think" you're right. So that means you must be.

Personal opinions don't trump facts, child.

[–] Hold_the_door 8 years ago

I don't try to win anything.
I have that opinion because the director himself said that the movie is successful. So I guess the reason why he said that could be because it either met studio expectations or broke even. Which means any money the film makes from now - or to be specific some of the money the film makes from now - will be its profit.
The OP has also his/her own proofs for his/her opinion. Only the people behind the film know what the right opinion is. It might not be mine, but we can't know.

[–] Umbragom 8 years ago

Who cares what the director claimed or didn't. He's biased and wants to keep working. Look at your reply, kid, it is a bunch of hot air with zero facts or evidence. Don't try to mask this, you are salty because your personal opinion is being ignored in lieu of actual facts.

Cry me a river.

[–] Jonathan-Doe 8 years ago

When you think about it, his opinion doesn't even qualify as an opinion, it's actually more like a wish.

[–] Hold_the_door 8 years ago

I'm not that stupid to wish for something like that. The box office of this movie doesn't affect my life.

[–] Jonathan-Doe 8 years ago

Then why are you behaving as though it does?

[–] Hold_the_door 8 years ago

It really doesn't. I guess it doesn't for you too, but you're also behaving like it does.

[–] Jonathan-Doe 8 years ago

It's really important to DCEU fanatics so of course it is going to get my attention.

[–] Umbragom 8 years ago

If you didn't care, kid, then you wouldn't be here. Indifference is just that, an absence of interest. I know what you're doing, trying to start a new argument, but I've indulged you this instance because it proves my underlying point about rationalizing versus being rational. When you're rational that's it, your position is based in facts and truth and it withstands all attempts to defeat it. But rationalizing is based in lies and deception and the more you dig that hole the deeper you get. Lies begit lies. You have to keep rationalizing and your position gets sillier and more ludicrous.

Stick to the truth, kid. As the man said, just the facts, ma'am. Listening is not just waiting for your chance to speak.

[–] Hold_the_door 8 years ago

If you don't care about my opinion, I don't see a reason why you keep replying. Let's just end this. Believe whatever you want about me and my opinion. I won't care. Anyone has his/her opinion.
Have a nice day. Don't answer back if you don't have something to say.

[–] Jonathan-Doe 8 years ago

Don't answer back if you don't have something to say.

That hasn't stopped you, bro. 

[–] Umbragom 8 years ago

See, once again you are hiding behind that myth that an opinion can't be challenged because it's "an opinion" and everybody is entitled to their opinion. They are not. People are entitled to their informed opinion. Nobody is entitled to be ignorant.

[–] Jonathan-Doe 8 years ago

I applaud you for trying, sir, but as has been proven on multiple occasions over the last month, this bunch of fanatical zealots won't listen to a word you have written unless it fits in with their desired narrative, ie. Suicide Squad is a success in theaters. You may as well be teaching a dog turd to do brain surgery as educate DC fanatics on how the BO works in 2016.

[–] gogoschka-1 8 years ago

Lol, thnanks, but I'm not out bashing DC (or Disney or Fox or Sony). If anything, I'm bashing the corporations all these studios belong to, because they stopped caring about the quality of the storytelling in their tentpoles.

"The complication had a little complication."

[–] MydnightRose 8 years ago

Let's stop talking about Marvel flopps and just discuss how many films in general are flops according to this guy. Out of the hundreds ofnfilms released apparently only Star Wars, Jurassic World, Avengers 1*2 are hits.

1. BVS 2. TWS 3. Avenger

[–] Jonathan-Doe 8 years ago

If you can't be bothered to understand how the BO works then that's fine but could you also refrain from making ridiculous comments? Thanks.

[–] kitsunegames 8 years ago

menn why do u need to exagerate the boxoffice profits. just make it simple like it use to be. why just expound it just now, here on SS board, and only point it out here in SS. its useless if your theory also applies to all other movies. it only means you are here to hate and cannot accept facts that this movie is massive in the boxoffice and destroyed most marvel movies. simple as taht

[–] MightyViper 8 years ago

Or you know you could actually pay attention to what he's saying, instead of inventing silly strawman versions of his argument.

Instead of just waiting for their turn to speak.
- Marla

[–] Mithrandir-Olorin33 8 years ago

Because of Merchandising, Marketing pretty much pays for itself.

There is no way WB would make this film needing as much as you are suggesting. Regardless of having some Iconic popular character, this was the first film appearance for most and The Joker is being played by a new Actors which the studio knew there would be an obstacle to him following in Ledger's footsteps.

No movie that makes double it's Budget base don foreign release alone can be called a flop, ever.

At any-rate studio do not depend on Theatrical runs alone anymore. BvS has been vindicated by it's DVD sales, and this movie will probably do better on DVD.

[–] gogoschka-1 8 years ago

No movie that makes double it's Budget base don foreign release alone can be called a flop, ever.

At any-rate studio do not depend on Theatrical runs alone anymore. BvS has been vindicated by it's DVD sales, and this movie will probably do better on DVD.

Lol, try reading the original post before answering, mate: that's exactly what I wrote there.

"The complication had a little complication."

[–] MachoManRandySavage 8 years ago

You see, nobody knows what your point is. They just said they don't think it's losing money currently (as is the title of your thread, in case you aren't aware) and even if it is, so what?

Nobody wants to read your multiple link, long winded original post to eventually get to a conclusion that has nothing to do with the title.

[–] gogoschka-1 8 years ago

Lol, suit yourself, friend. I hope you enjoyed the time you spent on this thread. Feel free to check in any time. Peace. 

"The complication had a little complication."

[–] MachoManRandySavage 8 years ago

What are you supposed to be?

Also, I'm assuming you're a 14 year old girl since you typed "lol".

[–] gogoschka-1 8 years ago

13 (lol)👧

"The complication had a little complication."