MovieChat Forums > Suicide Squad (2016) Discussion > Batman cinematically is a horrible place...

Batman cinematically is a horrible place right now.

posted 8 years ago by MandrasAndPelagia
36 replies | jump to latest

I know so many people are going to disagree with me, but I don't like this new incarnation of Batman we now have to deal with for the next 2 decades or so.

I love Batman. I've seen every movie in the theater since 89 when I was 1. I have tons of Batman comics I've collected since the early 90s.

Batman's biggest appeal is that he doesn't have superpowers. And neither do most of his villains: they're common street thugs, who either dress up as something, suffer from a physical or mental condition, have a skin disease, or went through an accident of some kind. None, at least originally, are extraterrestrial original or born with superhuman abilities or capable of dark magic.

Now we have a Batman in a world with the "Enchantress." Come on. None of this is subtle at all. I'm not opposed to more fantasy elements of Batman, even Batman (89) and Batman Returns had elements of fantasy, but not to the extent of aliens or witches.

Batman is now stuck in a universe of pure fantasy, At this point, he may as well get bitten by a bat and get bat-like powers. What's stopping that from happening? No logic in this universe. Batman solo films will never be the same again, they will not be on the level of The Dark Knight or even Batman 89 focused on street level crime in urban decay, but more fantastic with aliens and superpowered villains and what not.

Make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.

[–] DarksIayer 8 years ago

That has been the comic world for decades though.

[–] Milk_Tray_Guy 8 years ago

Exactly.

All for a box of chocolates...

[–] DramaticLeo87 8 years ago

Rather Batman be in this Universe than the boring Nolanverse.

[–] Honcho77 8 years ago

Amen.

[–] MandrasAndPelagia 8 years ago

Oh come on, Nolan's Batman movies are literally the most critically-acclaimed book movies of all time. I think by calling them boring, you're saying more about your intellect than anything else. I mean, you probably think the Godfather's boring. Good dialogue and dramatic storytelling are far better than flashy things and CGI blowing up on screen. Suicide Squad was "boring." You can throw in some 70s music and spray paint and glitter but it was a pain to sit through. These movies are made for kids now it seems.

If only Alejandro González Iñárritu directed a DCU film...I can dream.

Make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.

[–] DramaticLeo87 8 years ago

And Marvel movies aren't? Anyways dialogue and dramatic storytelling works for that type of movie. Is it working for Arrow....Um no. Did it work for Batman in the Nolan triology...Hell Naw.

[–] asfound 8 years ago

In other words you have an attention span issue and you would prefer jumpy editing, CGI explosions, bad overacting, silly dancing withches and playstation villains rather than intelligent writing, good storytelling, well developed characters and a narrative arc with philosophical underpinnings.

Fair enough.

[–] DramaticLeo87 8 years ago

Well tell that to Arrow who is using this formula and is failing miserably. Flash is the poster child for the DC television universe right now.

[–] smk23 8 years ago

SO then you have never agreed with the idea of the Justice League since 1960 or Batman ever meeting Superman (Alien) in comics? Just always ever wanted Batman to be his own person in a separate universe?

[–] MandrasAndPelagia 8 years ago

That's the thing. The comics have separate continuities. The good Batman stories like Knightfall, Hush, Year One, The Killing Joke, have no appearances or references by Superman and crew. Take the Killing Joke for instance. It's a very dark, disturbing story. It'd ruin the comic if say, the Flash made an appearance in it. It is these Batman stories we're not supposed to think Superman and The Flash exist somewhere.

Comic books have the advantage of having the Justice League in one edition, and then going back to an individual dark solo Batman story with no Justice League members or mention of them.

Batman: The Animated Series was entirely about Batman, even though they did end up doing a few crossover specials where he meets Superman and Justice League - but for the show itself they limited it to just being about Batman with no mention of these other heroes.

In this DC movie universe, this can't happen anymore. What's stopping Batman from saying, "hey, the Joker is giving me a hard time, I'll just call Superman." If Superman exists in Batman's world, why didn't Batman call Superman in Batman & Robin when Mr. Freeze was freezing the entire city? These shared universes just don't work. It ruins the heroes as individual characters and permanently turns them into a team -- when in the comics they were only part of a shared universe team a very small percentage of the comics.

Crossovers are fine when they're limited. But this cinematic universe is based on the crossover. So we'll never get a Batman solo movie again; even in a Batman "solo" movie it's going to be loaded with references and cameos to other heroes.

Make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.

[–] mwhite182 8 years ago

That's why there will be a stand alone Batman film. That will be a more grounded Batman story similar to those comics you mentioned. But it still leaves room for him to be in with the Justice League.

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die.

[–] tavaresmd 8 years ago

Superman is in Hush

The Hardest Thing In This World Is To Live In It

[–] mojave69 8 years ago

I can sort of see some of your points especially about the cinematic Batman universe but you are sorely mistaken with the comics though, Hush for starters had characters such as Superman, Poison Ivy & Clayface who all featured heavily in the plot.

Even fan favourite The Dark Knight Returns heavily features Superman.

Why does everybody seem to always quote The Killing Joke & Year One as the "ultimate" Batman stories?... the character has been in print for 75 plus years people, there are far superior stories written than those.

What makes you so sure that a Batman solo movie would have to be loaded with references & cameos of other heroes?. I'm not sure why the mention of other heroes would bother you so much.

[–] adam-176 8 years ago

If Superman exists in Batman's world, why didn't Batman call Superman in Batman & Robin when Mr. Freeze was freezing the entire city?

Superman did exist in that continuity, even if he's never shown on screen. From the opening scenes of Batman & Robin:

Robin: I want a car. Chicks dig the car

Batman: This is why Superman works alone

Good luck, Captain. I think you're about to go where everyone has gone before
-- Susan Ivanova

[–] SarahJConnor 8 years ago

what exactly is the difference here between a solo Batman comic and a solo Batman film?

imo

[–] dhunter333 8 years ago

at the start of knightfall, batman and robin are wearing black superman arm bands from death of superman storyline

they are in the same universe
dc is a broad universe, the MAIN canon (hero's main titles) are all in the same universe

[–] dhunter333 8 years ago

batman the animated series is in the same universe as superman the animated series and justice league...the same batman is in justice league (same joker, etc)...same universe...the timverse as i call is was quite big...

[–] dhunter333 8 years ago

that is absolutely not true
knightfall took place in batman comics, detective comics, shadow of the bat, legends of the dark knight, robin, catwoman comics, and more
that is the main dc continuity that DOES exist with the other heroes
at the beginning of knightfall, batman, robin, and azrael are wearing black patches with superman logos on their arms in memory of the recently fallen man of steel from death and return of superman

[–] spiceymeatballz2 8 years ago

Affleck seems out of place in the JL trailers. I really think cinema Batman can't be a team player and still be interesting.

[–] SideSkroll 8 years ago

My thoughts exactly.
I'm a die-hard fan of both Batman 89 and Batman Returns, to me those are the only SPECTACULAR Batman films to date.
I must admit I enjoyed Affleck's portrayal (and I wasn't expecting that TBH) but the whole world around him is pure trash now, IMHO.
Its too "Marvel" (And I hate Marvel movies. I can't stand them)
All in all I really think they should stop producing any more superhero movies.
It seems they pop out every 2 months nowadays... I remember back in the day Batman was a HUGE thing. Not only because it was a great adaptation but because it was a "new thing" as well.
Not really a fan of the Nolan movies BTW. They went too far to the opposite side of the spectrum and came out kinda stupid for doing so (I could tell they were really trying to be "serious stuff".

John Dies at the End

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] moshbabylon 8 years ago

I agree and disagree.

I think the problem is what we've seen of Batman so far in the DCEU has been uncharacteristic, flawed, and shallow.
We haven't seen the world's greatest detective because this Batman, like Nolan's, is more dependent on technology instead of brains. Batman may not be super-powered but he is supposed to be of above average intelligence. This is supposed to the same Batman that defeats genius-level IQ criminals right? or not? We don't know yet.
And we saw the part of Bat's origin where his parents are murdered but we haven't seen Batman in his early years, his training, or the time he had Robin is a sidekick. This universe skips all that, but we get brief glimpses into him fighting bad guys like Joker/Harley, and Deadshot... but it's all so brief and those scenes don't do Batman justice. How he deals with Deadshot was all wrong (so the movie can make the audience sympathetic to Deadshot at the expense of making Batman seem like a bad guy), and his takedown of the Jokermobile was sloppy and reckless. Fast forward in the future in "Dawn of Justice" and we at least get a more developed villain in KGBeast. Batman vs. KGBeast was cool but Batman was uncharacteristically brutal in his approach in the film, and Batman shows poor judgement in regards to how he dealt with Superman as well.

The way Batman is portrayed and written needs improvement. Hopefully the solo Batfleck film gets it right, because my hopes are not too high for Justice League. I don't think the problem is that Batman seems under-powered in the DC Universe in comparison to the super-powered characters though, since it was never a huge problem in comics/other media. The problem is the writing... since the audience needs to be convinced that Batman can win against all odds - but part of the trouble in making that argument is the lack of what we really know about the DCEU Batman and the lazy approach that's been taken to cover the basics.

[–] terminaltrip421 8 years ago

agreed, OP. pseudo-philisophical batman it ridiculously laughable.

if you don't have anything nice to say ...you're probably a butthole

[–] asfound 8 years ago

Agreed - this is what seperates Batman from all other heroes, and why I believe he's the most loved comic book character. You can have elements of fantasy e.g. Batman Returns. You can have moments with super powered characters e.g. Dark Knight Returns.

But what makes it great is having grounding, having plausabilty - him dealing with threats that actually happen like gangs, crime, the mafia, serial killers and terrorism. He just looks out of place with all these giant electicity in the sky creatures, aliens and indestructable super humans.

That's what Christopher Nolan understood, and how he gave us some of the best comic book films of all time. The Justice League footage doesn't do it for me at all, but maybe the solo Batman film will be better.