but it was referenced in the movie as a British swear word. Therefore our pronounciation stands.
Brits can't even pronounce their H's. They shouldn't judge.
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Can't pronounce our H's? What are you chatting on about, unless your lumping every British accent in with the northerners who tend not to bother with them, like 'ello, 'ey up etc. In which case don't lump us all in with those northern monkeys
shareHold up! It went from US v UK, to UK south v UK north. 'Ello' is much more common south anyway, dropping the 'h' is synonomous with the cockney or Essex accent.
share"Brits can't even pronounce their H's. They shouldn't judge."
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Haha. You American? How do you say "herb" in conversation?
How do you say "herb" in conversation?Depends on whether it's a plant or a dude's name. share
It is pronounced multiple ways depending on the definition. "Hello" is not "ello" so using herb as an example is irrelevant. Stop trying now or you're just going to embarrass yourself.
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HumperPecker,
Still waiting for an answer, troll.
I did, cry baby and I completely shut down your comeback.
Cry please? It's kind of funny.
rofl just found this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQaJHuNCMGA&feature=related
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Humps,
You are a brat. How would you say, "herb garden," you question-dodging *beep*
because it's a terrible argument. There's a difference between silent letters and improper pronunciations. That's like saying we're all pronouncing knife incorrectly.
herb is intentionally pronounced "erb."
Hello is intentionally pronounced "hell-oh."
It's not a poh-tay-toh/poh-tah-toh situation. "Ell-oh" becomes a slang term.
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"Brits can't even pronounce their H's. They shouldn't judge." (<- You said that.)
-
1. "Herb" is incorrectly pronounced "erb" by lazy/ignorant people. Not all Americans say "erb" - just the wrong ones.
2. Have you ever been to the UK?
3. Your suggestion is like a French Canadian telling a Frenchman that HE is the one who is wrong.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/herb
I win. You lose. Mad? Cry to someone else :)
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I think you guys both should watch this, from the cued time to 11:30 (only 15 sec): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztTqZjKEc-s#t=11m15s
One of you is Stu, one of you is Didi, & the rest of us are Drew.
the Pronunciation of the word herb is(can't use the Pronunciation marks)urb no H. short U.
Acceptable but not correct is Hurb-The H is pronounced.
I look the way people proudly fault their ignorance on the web.
herb is intentionally pronounced "erb."
Hello is intentionally pronounced "hell-oh."
Lol logic? Tt's fact not logic lol. Pronouncing the H in erb is not about accents. Although, some people may pronounce the H, it is not intended to be pronounced. YES herb is meant to have a silent H. That's like saying some people pronounce the "k" in knife. Maybe an uneducated person would, but when you've learned the intended pronunciation, you shouldn't be saying it's right to pronounce it that way. If your logic was correct, we'd all have a difficult time understanding each other in a language we all know. That would be ridiculous.
Twat and Twaht is like potaytoh potahtoh. Both are acceptable. Nife and Kuh-nife are not both acceptable.
Do I need to explain this any further? I'm surprised this is an issue for people anyways. Maybe you're just upset because I've targeted you. I promise you, arguing for the sake of your self-consciousness will get you nowhere.
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Haha I'm sorry but you are simply wrong!
You cannot say herb is always meant to have a silent h and only people who are uneducated/wrong pronounce it with an h. I am British, I have a very typical RP/London accent, the real 'BBC voice', with plenty of education. I pronounce the h. Most British people do. That is how we say it. You say it differently. Both are correct and fine! How do you not get that? Do you think the rest of the world and other accents don't exist?
See here, everywhere says America and Britain pronounce it differently, one with an h, one without, but both are valid in their respective countries:
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/herb
http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/25410/correct-pronunciation -of-herbs
http://oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/dictionary/herb
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herb
From oxford "Origin:
Middle English: via Old French from Latin herba 'grass, green crops, herb'. Although herb has always been spelled with an h, pronunciation without it was usual until the 19th century and is still standard in the US"
By origin, the H was intentionally meant to be silent.
Seriously? Why don't you read your own research? lmao, sorry, but I have to laugh at that one. There's a difference between acceptable and proper. I have many English friends with accents so heavy I cannot understand them sometimes. It's acceptable because it's not a big deal, but if you get into a debate over it, then we can throw in the facts.
Nevertheless, this was a "'wat" or "'waht" situation where one criticized the pronunciation. Ironically, it was by someone who could have been criticized themselves which brought me to the "H" topic to prove a point. Then a few of you went on a funny raging spree. I'm glad I proved my point and proved it well. If you feel like attacking someone for ignorance, attack the person who is trying to tell people how to pronounce slang terms from one acceptable way to another one because think they are right and everyone else is wrong.
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*facepalm* I know the history of the word, it does not mean we are wrong now. Even the word "who" has changed over time. Things can change.
Do you realize how many words have changed over time?! Honestly, learn about the history of language. Many, many words have altered over time, according to certain groups splitting off, changing them, or keeping them. Words alter. In fact, if I went back to my same town in the 16th century for example, I would have a hard time understanding them. Because pronounciations naturally change and then become valid.
That isn't wrong, it certainly doesn't mean the British are NOW wrong for pronouncing the h that is there because it is in their accent. That is why every dictionary offers two different examples, both American AND English. Answer this: If the English one was not still valid and recognized, would it be there? No. Just like the dictionary does not offer a prounciation for knife with a sounded k, because absolutely no accent says that.
So are you saying the dictionary is wrong, and the large majority of British people are uneducated/stupid? Or can you not understand dialects are all different but equally fine, it gives some variety to the world. Right now, you are looking like a real stereotype of a culterally ignorant American.
Reread what I wrote and try to understand because clearly you didn't. Again, attack the person who says "twaht" is incorrect. But whaaaat? That person is from your country and uses your pronunciations. You can't possibly go after the person who caused this argument, you have to go against the person who is aiming at your country because you're too sensitive and took it personal. I made it clear that it was to prove a point against the person who attacked US pronunciations.
Oh so clearly biased because of the country you live in. You lost your credibility the second you defended the agitator. You made the mistake letting sensitive feelings. It clouded your rational thinking capabilities.
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If that person is saying Americans are wrong for saying "erb" I have already addressed this. I have clearly disagreed with that person, and said BOTH pronounciations are correct and equally valid. Me and you are clearly still arguing over this because you're replying to me with hilariously arrogant comments, keeping the argument going when the other poster has left. So yes, if you're clearly still saying Britain is wrong/stupid for simply pronouncing a "h", then I'll just disagree with you. That's all.
Now. Do you see my point about every dictionary offering both equally valid examples? Or do you just want to ignore that and resolutely claim we're still wrong/stupid?
Btw, if the actress is trying to say "twat" in an English accent, then she did get it quite wrong. If she intended to say it in her American accent, then fair enough. If Americans wanna say it like that, then fine, I don't know how you usually say it.
you're still not reading and taking in what I write. Kind of feeling sorry for you for not understanding. Should I simplify my sentences for you?
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Haha ok. There is clearly no point in this. I clearly replied to you, even when you tried to change the subject away from the actual pronounciation to moaning about how I'm challenging you but not another poster. Good try. Perhaps you realized your opinions and 'h' theories are pretty flawed so had to divert the subject.
Whatever. Just try to remember dictionaries are usually pretty correct, if they offer the English as an example, it means it's valid, not 'stupid'. Simple.
Your sources went against you. I never said Brits were stupid, you assumed that, but you certainly fall under that category, but HEY thanks for trying. It was fun, but you're awful at debating.
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You're right, you didn't say stupid, you said uneducated and tied it strongly to this silly 'h' difference, which is so much better: "YES herb is meant to have a silent H. That's like saying some people pronounce the "k" in knife. Maybe an uneducated person would, but when you've learned the intended pronunciation, you shouldn't be saying it's right to pronounce it that way."
So every dictionary I sited clearly and equally stating two seperate ways to pronounce the word (one with and one without an "h"), goes against me also saying both 'herb' and 'erb' are equally fine.... Right. You're making no sense. There is no point with this, you're embarrassing yourself, and encouraging your country's bad stereotypes, which is sad, I quite like America.
quote me where I said all brits are uneducated
didn't think so. Again, you lost credibility. Why are you trying? You misunderstood and now you're in denial or still haven't figured it out lmao
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You said saying "h" in herb is like saying "k" in knife, which is something apparently only uneducated people would do (your words). Considering Brits do usually say the "h", your implication was fairly clear. Done.
Once again, you also didn't address or talk about the actaul subject we were discussing, you diverted it. This is stupid. It's not debating like you try to pretend, it's just stupid petty bickering on the internet.
Lets call it a day. I am honestly bored.
you proved me right by displaying herb was not intended to be pronounced with an H, yet you still argue. Yes, it's a debate. Learn your definitions and origins.
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Dude. I STUDY the English accent! I have 2 hour lessons every week on it with professional dialect teachers who know exactly how and why accents occur, how they evolve/change, what they should sound like, what is right/wrong. English people say herb, this pronounciation is in the dictionary black and white. It is clearly NOW acceptable, not incorrect. If it is, then you're pronouncing the word "who" incorrectly, and many many other words too.
Seriously. Give it up.
You sent me a link that proved me right. You already lost. Now it's just pure entertainment to me and yet you keep trying. Like an ant with a missing limb. They're not going to make it, yet they still try because it isn't instinct to fail.
Again, you attacked me simply because of the locations we live in which was stupid and ignorant and completely contradicting to your arguments. Again, you went for someone who talked about YOUR country simply because it's YOUR country rather than going for the agitator that brought us to where we are today.
Your argument is simply voided due to biases, ignorance, lack of research, and lack of knowledge in certain terms. You did not come close to winning this debate. You did really poorly by providing links that support my claims.
Again, thanks for trying.
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Ok, you're not getting it at all, not even something this simple in a dictionary. I can see by your profile you think you're an incredibly superior and intelligent poster trying to always argue with "idiots" on the internet about movies etc etc. Bravo, wow, very impressive life. Well done on the poor attempts at arrogance too.
I'm done with your petty insults and desperate attempts to 'win' petty internet disputes. Goodbye
I hit a weak spot :) You went to my profile to try to make a personal attack. That's shows a great deal of weakness. There are a lot of idiots on these boards crying about stupid things, so yes, I make it clear when idiots are being idiots. Yes, I am superior and more intelligent than a lot of people on these boards. In no way will I ever say I'm on the same level as many people on imdb. I don't dare insult myself in such a way.
I appreciate the compliment though. Thanks for giving me bonus points by you going for the personal attack. It shows insecurity. Work on your debating skills, research, and know what you're presenting. It wouldn't have been so easy for me if you hadn't actually helped me.
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Sweetheart. You don't even know what the word agitator is, it means someone who stirs up public feeling on controversial issues, usually political. Not very applicable in this case.
Thanks for your appraisal though. I'll take it from someone who uses words they actually know though. It does mean a bit more, and suggests a stronger intelligence.
sweetheart, it isn't only politically controversial issues. Read your own definitions, pumpkin. You said "usually." How are you not going to even read your own words or did you copy it off of wikipedia? lmao.
You poor kid. You're digging yourself a deeper hole of shame for yourself :)
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I don't think saying "she didn't say the word twat right!" is even stirring a controversial issue or cause either (political or not), which is the certain definition. If you want to check, you could look it up on this little site called the Merriam-Webster dictionary. I double checked to make sure, and funny enough it was there, just as I remembered.
I'm off now but have fun, I wish you well.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agitator?s=t
World English Dictionary
agitator (ˈædʒɪˌteɪtə)
— n
1. a person who agitates for or against a cause, etc
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/agitator
ag·i·ta·tor (j-ttr)
n.
1. One who agitates, especially one who engages in political agitation.
I'm getting really bored of shutting you up and putting you in your place. Are you a masochist or something? I don't completely enjoy dominating people, but after awhile I just start to feel a little sorry for the weak and incapable.
Swallow your pride and simply shut the *beep* up because you lost a long time ago and you lost your credibility. You don't even know what "debate" means. As I said before, you're an ant without a limb and your claims are voided.
You might want to get your head checked because you've proven many times that you do not understand words you read. You just know how to copy and paste content that doesn't support your claims. lmfao. You're a fool, kid.
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Haha calm down, it's ok.
Once again, claiming "the word twat wasn't said right!" is hardly a 'cause' as you say. This word is used in political, social and genuine causes/issues. Not really right for this context where its a little opinion about twats. "I'll fire those union agitators" is a good context though. I just thought you should know.
Have fun with your grand debates.
eh why should I bother reading and replying when you can't understand anything you read or write. I feel like I'm chatting with an infant.
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I think I speak for everyone who isn't the both of you when I say, "Why is this still happening!?"
shareI agree CaptHayfever. Thankfully I go back to university in a few days. I've been on holiday way, way too long. I also watched a dog bounce up and down on a trampoline on youtube, because I am just that bored today.
Fortunately I'm done now. I'm very glad I'll be too busy for this soon.
HumperPecker = Justin Bieber of the English language
Congratulations on your success!
Thanks. I didn't know I'd be so famous and loved by so many women.
I pity on your failure.
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Sorry, Justin, I can't hear you over the disrespect felt for you by educated people.
share
When I was growing up, I heard herb as erb, but I didn't realize it.
I see the word written down and I pronounced it as "herb"
It was until i was in my 20s, early 20s, that I was corrected that it was pronounced as erb...
It was because I told someone that it wasn't an herb... Since you use an with vowels... like an ear, an elephant.. etc... not an house. it doesn't make sense..
I learned that you pronounce it as an erb....
It has everything to do with how you were raised.
If I wasn't taught it on the World of Warcraft game, I would prolly still say Herb until I read this thread.. I pronounced it as I see fit and since it had the H, I used it....
Like Opossum... I said it with an O... I just now found out that it is without it to be considered correct. I rather say stuff correctly. Since I am from the USA, I'd rather say it correct here. Now, if I went to UK or anywhere near there, I would not change the way it is pronounced. I'll keep it as how it was meant to be in USA.
Of course, there are differences...
It is silent, as it should be...
Unless, of course, it is some name.... like Herbert...
I don't know whether this helps matters at all, but the pronunciation to rhyme with 'swat' always reminds me of this very funny Not the Nine O'Clock News sketch, which is 30+ years old: www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbC3Fdv5wKU.
There are clearly instances where British people pronounce it this way, though I don't think it offers the range of expression offered by saying twat to rhyme with spat.
BTW, liked the film!
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twat=vagina. same as someone being called a pussy. not offensive when its a woman being called it but objectionable when a man is being called. then he is being compared to being like a woman or gay. in other words, weaker. but it's not a swear word
shareMy dear old thing,
I would advise you not to call women twats should you ever visit Britain (assuming you're not British), they are likely to find it very offensive and react by twatting (ie. hitting) you about the head.
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Pronunciation is not that really important. What matter is that we get the idea that is being delivered to us, the recipient(s). Language, words, meanings, spelling, grammar, pronunciation, punctuations, etc. are just some loose rules (which changes over time) that we use to express our thoughts, so basing on context in that scene, what she said was definitely a swear word because the other characters understood it that is why she was in detention for it, and obviously the writers understood it also as a "British" swear word. Although I don't know if that's really true or not because some people in this thread are debating over it. I think Olive wasn't really that sure also if it was "British" or not because of her tone in that scene. I really don't know anymore if it's a British swear word or not. Haha. But base on what others are sharing in this discussion, it's definitely not good :-D
Anyway, this reminds me of http://english.stackexchange.com/q/1545, proof to me that the English language is still somewhat evolving since the Anglo-Saxon period.
Sorry if my English is not that correct, I rarely speak or write in English here in Asia so I hope my thoughts transferred well ;-)
I don't have a signature....
Lol that was one of the things that I noticed in the Descendants too, that they pronounce Twat as "Two-what"! And yes its quite commonly thrown around here even though it means vagina. Like a slightly less offensive way of saying C-U-Next-Tuesday... Most people don't getting offended by it. But then we don't get offended by most curse words, we actually throw them around like casual nicknames lol..
Ashmi any question
A
It;s a movie. A movie is not a reference book.
B
She may be mispronuncing it on purpose, as the charcter's design or the directors. It could show the she is smart enough to know where the word originates, but not smart enough to know the British Pronunciation.
C
It has been used in the US way way back. It is an American word. However it may be an New England term so brought over on the boat but never spread. In NYC the word is well know and pronounced twot, not as a rhyme for bat. Color/colour?
She uses the US pronunciation.
D
How ever if she knows it is british and refers to it as a British word it should be pronounced as the British.
Yes it is.
Even being from a chav area.
This is the dumbest thread I have read in my life, who gives a *beep*? This is for movies not your petty views on pronunciation.
shareI'm English and I always thought twot was some American version of twat but not the same ... I don't think twat is a swear word but I kinda always thought twot was some sorta toned down version for people who thought it was :/
real human being and a real hero
Why are you telling me this, reply to the OP not me.
share