We want the Hercules from the myths... Not this rip off - Hercules (2014) Discussion

[–] fasnic 10 years ago

This is an issue that many have with the movie. I personally blame it on the marketing as not enough people realize that this film is based on the graphic novel "Hercules: The Thracian Wars".

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[–] xbxoxy 10 years ago

lol i found that out after the credits scene... i dont think the movie is that bad... but it wasnt good either... watchable at best

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[–] DianaLis 10 years ago

Man if those comics are base for the story shown in the movie... it's like building castle in a swamp. You just can't make something good out of sh**.

 http://diandianusfilmovus.blogspot.com/

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[–] dialixii 10 years ago

If this would have been about any other warrior, this would have been a good film. Replace the name and reputation of Hercules we all know with another Greek, Spartan, Roman or whatever name and this would have been awesome.

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[–] andyroo316 10 years ago

You're right!

It's almost like it was based on a comic-book more than the myth.

...wait.

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[–] hikacute 10 years ago

I went because I wanted to see a good anddetailed cinematic version of the 12 Labors from Myth as well. It was an ok film, but watching a version do the story justice would have been far better

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[–] andyroo316 10 years ago

Here's my advice:

Just do a tiny bit of research on a film before you go and see it.

Yes, the trailers were deceptive but the rest of the marketting wasn't. I knew full well we weren't going to see the 12 Labours, I knew it was based on a comic book story rather than the myth and I knew it called into question Hercules' god status.

And before you say "But then I'll have spoiled myself!" - despite what I knew about the film, I didn't actually know nearly anything about the actual plot itself. I didn't even know he had a group of friends who fought alongside him and helped him build his reputation.

I know that probably sounds a bit condescending, but you really do only have yourself to blame here. Just find out what a film's about and if you don't do that, don't complain.

It's a bit like if I choose the pink ice-cream and get disappointed it's bubblegum-flavoured, not strawberry, when there's a menu freely available.

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[–] chris-wulfers 10 years ago

I disagree. I prefer to know nothing about a film before I go see it. Just a tease to peak my interest. Interstellar for instance, I watched 2 trailers, and read nothing about it. From what's shown int he trailers, we really don't know much about the movie, and I'm so excited for it. Comparatively, Hercules was showing me the 12 labors, so that's what I was expecting. I was disappointed.

I feel in today's age there's way too much information that is disseminated about a film before it is released. Great films don't require you to know anything about it. You sit down, and are blown away. If you prefer to know what you're walking in to, that's fine. I like to discover it when I watch it. But false advertising is the mark of a poor film.

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[–] andyroo316 10 years ago

Sure, it's cool that you don't want to spoil yourself at all.

But then don't complain when it's not like the trailer. It wasn't false advertising - a trailer is meant to be a tease, nothing more. If it showed too much, people like yourself would be like "It gives too much away! I didn't wanna be spoiled! I didn't wanna be questioning Hercules' god-status before I even started watching the film!", so the trailer-makers really can't win either way.

It's fine if someone picks a random meal from a menu that doesn't actually explain what's in it beyond "A vegetable pie", but if it isn't to their liking (because of the exact sauce/herbs/whatever used), I don't blame anyone but themselves, if they could've easily asked the waiter what's in it.

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[–] chris-wulfers 10 years ago

You're presuming a lot about me. No they don't need to show more in the trailers. It's about selecting what to show in the trailers. The people that make them aren't dumb. And for me at least, it's easy to see the creative intentions behind them.

In Hercules for instance, it was false advertising. It misled the viewer to anticipate a story about Hercules the demi god. Every scene was selected to give the aura of mythology. Because of the tone of the trailer, even moments with the barbarians rising from the ground, in the context of the trailer, were fantastical.

Now if they had just teased a couple regular scenes that did not involve the 12 labors, with maybe some dialogue about Hercules being just a man dubbed over it, that would be a different story. Something simple like that, doesn't tell you anything about the movie, but lets you know what you're in for. Consequently though, going this route, would have likely yielded less patrons than the former approach.

And no, when I try things out of the box, I expect them to be good/fun/interesting. I don't live in a bubble. If you like to make excuses to stay in your comfort zone that's your prerogative. But life outside of our bubble doesn't need to be a disappointment, It's an adventure.

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[–] andyroo316 10 years ago

You're presuming a lot about me.

If you like to make excuses to stay in your comfort zone that's your prerogative.

1) Don't be a hypocrite.

2) You seem to be the one who likes to live in a bubble. You're the one who wants the story exactly as it will be shown on screen shown in a trailer. I'm fine with surprises and films not being how I expect.

I didn't mean to imply I look up every film. Just that I'm not angry or upset or annoyed when a film is a surprise. You're the one who wants the film exactly as it is presented to you in the trailer, so you're in a safe bubble upon actually watching the film.

with maybe some dialogue about Hercules being just a man dubbed over it

Except, if you remember, this was a twist within the film itself. Quite a big one, actually (not in a plane-dropping Fight Club way, but narratively, it was something introduced not with the character upon his first entry, but later on). Within the film, he WAS built up to be a demi-god. It wasn't until partway through that it started to unravel.

Personally, I don't like trailers that give me such safe expectations of a film. I don't like to see half the story and twists and unraveling before I've seen what builds up to it. And like I said, half the time when you do see stuff like this happen, a vast majority complain "But that gives away the biggest part of the film!" (which is what 'questioning his god-like status' IS to this film) - so, as I pointed out, trailer makers can't win either way. Too little, you get accused of masking the real film; too much, you get accused of spoiling it.

If you like living outside a bubble, don't complain when something doesn't fit exactly to your expectations of it.

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[–] chris-wulfers 10 years ago

I said it wasn't what I expected. And the advertising campaign was misleading. Which it was. I don't think anything more of it. Stop being so childish, by having to have such a polarizing perspective.

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[–] andyroo316 10 years ago

I'm sorry if you think having an opposing opinion is childish.

And I'm sorry if you get disappointed by trailers from time to time. Especially if it means you end up disliking an extremely passable movie just because it wasn't what you originally thought it was going to be.

Like you said yourself - live outside a bubble, learn appreciate things you may not have been expecting once in a while, don't only like things which are like what you are expecting.

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[–] Natsu21 10 years ago

"Except, if you remember, this was a twist within the film itself. Quite a big one, actually (not in a plane-dropping Fight Club way, but narratively, it was something introduced not with the character upon his first entry, but later on). Within the film, he WAS built up to be a demi-god. It wasn't until partway through that it started to unravel."

I have to ask, did we watch the same movie? because it was pretty obvious from the first ten minutes that Hercules wasn't a demi god and was just a man with a lot of strength. It seemed to me the movie was trying to make it pretty clear from the start that Hercules was just a man who had a legend around him. The twist to me was that near the end, where it changed a bit and started showing Hercules doing things a normal man shouldn't be able to do, thus making it seem like there is a possibility he could be more than that. But yeah the only reason there even was a twist where Hercules was just a strong mortal man, is because the marketing behind the film clearly made it seem like the movie was just the standard demi-god Hercules. Without doing that there would be no twist to the movie.

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[–] ianmitchell-45214 9 years ago

I don't know why you bother arguing about it.

The same thing happened with Prometheus.

I am a huge supporter of the Prometheus film since I saw one quick trailer and decided to watch it. Ended up really enjoying the film too.

Others heard rumours of the Prometheus film being an Alien sequel resulting in an uproar of butthurt film critics being disappointed in seeing no aliens in the film except right at the end.

People should get it through their head that you do not watch a film with pre-conceived notions of what the film should be about and instead learn to let the film take them on a ride of visual and storytelling enjoyment. If you have your own idea of how a film should have gone, why not create your own script and get working?

I'm not being a hypocrite either. I have seen TV series and films where I'm thinking 'I could've done a better script' or 'I wish it went this way more' so I actually spend my free time making my own storylines in the hope that one day I can format my own visual media out of it. Be it simple youtube vids or just written out, I'd rather conjur up my own ideas instead of whinging about how someones elses storytelling should have been done.

Careful what you say to me. I will argue with you forever. I enjoy trying to prolong arguments :D

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[–] Petals121 10 years ago

Exactly. The marketing was totally misleading. Dwayne was even doing interviews talking about Herkules being a demigod etc.

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[–] igregward 10 years ago

Don't complain when it's not like the trailer? Um... Van Helsing, anyone? Ultraviolet? Hercules totally fooled us into seeing something it was not. I'm okay with adaptations of books being made into movies. The Percy Jackson movies I can handle because they are a novel series. Clash and Wrath of the Titans were okay and enjoyable. Immortals is the closest to the best of the Greek myths being adapted into a movie. (At least they got the gods right, being young looking) But, Hercules was touted as a tale of the mythic hero. I had heard late on it was based on a comic book. Knowing that helped a little and I'm not as critical with this movie as others. But, still, we should get a good Herakles movie.

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[–] vojkan087 10 years ago

Immortals is the closest to the best of the Greek myths being adapted into a movie.

I am left speechless? ''Movie'' that has Stavros as an ancient Greek character? Movie which basically has nothing worth watching, or resembling ancient Greece? Are you joking, dear sir?

(At least they got the gods right, being young looking)

And where did you ever get the idea Greek gods should be young looking?!In most cases it is exactly the opposite. Not only do you have no clue about Greek myths, which is not surprising or a bad thing by itself, but you actually established yourself as some kind of authority judging movies on their historical accuracy while saying utter nonsence like ''At least they got the gods right, being young looking''...which is a bad thing.

Also, did you never watch Odyssey with Armand Assante? At least it is an atempt at serious tone of the movie, not the overly dramatic, completely anachronistic, slowmo, blood splatter, comic book, sex and gore cgi porn we are served ever since that abomination 300 hit the theatres.

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[–] igregward 10 years ago

The gods are always young. I said Immortals was the closest thing. Yes, I agree they got a lot wrong. I study ancient Greek mythology, for over 30 years. I know the difference between it and Classic Greek mythology. And Christianized Greek mythology, which is where a lot of the older looks to the ancient Greek deities came from. So, I like to think I know what I'm talking about. Immortals has huge flaws, but it's representation of the gods is unmatched in modern cinema.

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[–] vojkan087 10 years ago

I am not at all surprised by the fact movies such as Immortals got anything wrong (as a matter of fact I would be surprised if they got something right), but am shocked by this coming from a person who supposedly studies ancient Greek mythology. FOR 30 years, nothing less?!

This...

The gods are always young.

...is as wrong as it can possibly be. I can not stress enough how false your presumption is. If you spent as much as 30 hrs, let alone 30 years (Professor of Classics?!) on the topic you should be able to tell that.

Btw, for us poor classicists, what exactly is the difference between ancient and classic(al?) Greek mythology?!

Christianized Greek mythology, which is where a lot of the older looks to the ancient Greek deities came from.

It took me a while to figure out what you're saying, but now when I do, I am equally shocked by your complete and utter ignorance. You might ''like to think you know what you're talking about'' but you really dont.

Whatever is Christianized?! Greek mythology, it has nothing to do with ''older looks'' of the Gods. We have an abundance of literary and aristic evidence from the time of Homer and Hesiod onward which pretty clearly give us the character and the supposed physical appereance of the gods.

Gods, some of whom I saw were depicted in the movie weren't depicted as youngsters in Ancient Greece, ever. Some were, during certain (later) periods.

From the oldest archaic representations of Olympian dieties, Zeus was a middle aged, bearded man. Poseidon the same.

Apollo is indeed depicted often as a beardless (young), though very strong and powerfull male. But his depictions aren't always such, so we have, even during archaic times, bearded (mature) Apollo.

Same is with Ares. He is depicted as a fully armed warrior. Mature. Bearded, as full citizen human warriors in Greece were. THe fact he is fully armed is exactly what makes him hard to identify. Only during later eras does art show him as a bearless nude! teen, which has more to do with a trend of a time, and in general can't be taken over older evidence.

So while depicting Apollo and Ares as young men, wouldn't necessarily be a mistake (especially in the case of Apollo), same as it wouldn't be a mistake depicting them as mature men (especially in the case of Ares), depicting gods like Zeus, Poseidon as such is, and a grave one.

On top of that, the whole movie looks cheap, their costumes are ridiculous, and I am not even getting into the story and characters of those gods...so I actually agree with the following

but it's representation of the gods is unmatched in modern cinema.

If I take it to be sarcasm. It IS unmatched in modern cinema. Nothing was that bad. Not even Clash of the Titans.

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[–] tiger86-2 10 years ago

I study ancient Greek mythology, for over 30 years.

What exactly do you think you are achieving by lying like this?

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[–] ApolloPhoebus 10 years ago

Immortals was not the closest thing. I've never heard such a ridiculous notion that "it's (its actually) representation of the gods is unmatched in modern cinema." It was an awful movie with regards to the gods (gods don't die!!). The issue of gods always being young has already been addressed. If you studied Classical mythology for 30 years (presuming you're talking about looking at it occasionally since childhood) you should know better. The gods are not young, and the Christianization of Greek mythology is NOT when 'older looks to the ancient Greek deities came from.' Xianity borrowed from Greek myth, not the other way around.

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[–] Natsu21 10 years ago

Most people though who see a film usually go and see it because they have seen trailers for it. Most other films you don't go and do research on. The general public will maybe read a couple reviews before they see it, but most still just go by what the trailers show. The trailers here were pretty deceptive and clearly played the movie up to look like it was going to be about Hercules and his 12 labours. Also even if people researched more and found out it was based on a graphic novel, unless they actually read the novel or read a summery of the novel, they could still assume the story has Hercules do his 12 labours and is the son of Zeus and has superhuman strength, mainly because that is really how the movie was marketed. So unless a person didn't mind reading possible spoilers for the movie then most peoples research of the movie would have got as far as the trailer or to knowing that the movie is based on a graphic novel but not what happens in the novel.

So I really have to disagree the OP is not to blame like at all, the way the movie was marketed clearly made it look like it was going to be a standard Hercules movie, and the blame purely falls on the marketing behind the film, not OPs lack of research.

Also your analogy there is a bit off. It would be like going to an icecream place, seeing the pink icecream, seeing a big sign above it that says strawberry flavoured, but failing to read the fine small print hidden beneath which says that it is actually just the brand name and it's really strawberry bubblegum flavoured. While similer it is still quite different, and also while the information was there, you would have had to get really close to read the fine print. But you didn't feel you needed to do that because you felt you could trust the big print which said Strawberry flavoured.

It's understandable then why the OP would be upset with the movie. I personally enjoyed the movie and still thought it was a fun movie, but I can understand why OP is annoyed since I too was expecting a different movie than what was shown. Only difference is I still enjoyed it lol.

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[–] Wakener_One 8 years ago

WHAT "rest of the marketing?" All I ever saw was the trailers, and they made it seem like this was going to be true to the myths for once. It was only when the reviews came out that I saw ANYTHING indicating that it was not close to the mythology. I'm not saying that I have a problem with that, just that the ads were a big bait and switch.

Now, I never read the graphic novel, so when I first saw it, mine impression was that it was a mythological treatment of The Magnificent Seven (I say that film, and not The Seven Samurai because Hercules even lifted some of the lines from The Magnificent Seven, like when the heroes are deciding to stay, Autolycus, the analogue of Harry Luck, tells them "You're crazy--the lot of you" for not leaving).

So it was a bait and switch--but at least it was a switch to something I already liked.

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[–] andyroo316 10 years ago

Also, are you kidding me?

This film did the story justice.

It did the story IT WAS TRYING TO TELL justice, at least. It was a superb adaptation of the comic book and I was impressed at The Rock's acting strengths after not seeing him in a movie since that action comedy with Seann William Scott.

No, it didn't do the original Hercules story justice but it was never meant to.

So really your complaint is akin to "Star Wars wasn't a good representation of the 60s space race", which just makes you look like an idiot.

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[–] manjinder-rai 10 years ago

I think you are being a bit harsh on the original poster here, who i agree with.

First my view is that the point of a trailer is to let you get an idea of what the film is about. But as was said earlier the trailer leads you to believe you'll be watching the 12 labours and mythical action scenes. Which in the actual film is all of 20 seconds worth of viewing. If they had not bothered focussing on that an made more of a point to say it was based on a graphic novel, a la Frank Miller and 300, then I think there would be a stronger case for saying people weren't misled.

Also I don't think your Star Wars analogy helps. The trailers for Star Wars as well as the posters, promos etc would not lead anyone to think it was about the 60s space race.

Similarly I noted also that another poster said that it would be like complaining that "the penguins of madagascar" wasn't a documentary. Again that should be obvious from the trailer. But here with Hercules that was not the case.

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[–] andyroo316 10 years ago

They couldn't tell people it was based on a graphic novel, as the actual author forbade them from doing so; they weren't deliberately hiding this information out of trickery and actually made every attempt - where they could - to spread this information. Which is what I mean - that information was out there and hardly secret.

In fact, they were forbidden from using anything from the graphic novel - or the fact it came from a graphic novel - in any marketting - which includes the trailer. Thus the trailer could not contain almost anything from the actual 'story', thus they were left with the myth, i.e. the 12 labours. That's all they COULD show in the trailer.

Again, you can't really blame the marketing team or the trailer guys for being dealt a bad hand themselves in the first place. However, as I also said - that information was definitely out there before the film was even released, so I don't think it's harsh to expect someone to know at least a little bit more about a film than a trailer.

And if a person DOES go to see a film based purely on the trust of one trailer without knowing a single, other thing about it, then that's their own fault for spending the ticket money. I personally don't like spending money on anything based purely on the advert - if someone else does and are surprised that the team behind it made it out to be better than it was? That's pretty gullible and I have no real sympathy. I don't expect a film to be exactly like/as good as the trailer much like I don't expect Red Bull to actually give me wings.

Read reviews, or at least take a quick glimpse at the blurb on the top bit of the Wikipedia entry - it's perfectly easy to know a bit more about a film than what the creative/marketing team want you to know in this day and age and having read THIS post, none of you can now claim you weren't warned about similar in the future.

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[–] Berzerkirsrage 10 years ago

Even based on the graphic novel - this film blew chunks!

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[–] andyroo316 10 years ago

As in it didn't do the graphic novel itself justice (as in you've read the graphic novel and think it was way better?), or you'd have preferred they use the myths not the graphic novel in the first place?

Because if it's the second, then my first point remains: Your complaint is akin to complaining that Star Wars didn't do a great job of depicting the real-life Space Race.

You went to see the wrong film after not knowing enough about it, and stupidly spent money based solely on an advert. No-one should have any sympathy for you in that case as that's basically the same as buying Red Bull and being like "WTF?! I don't have wings! This is B.S.!"

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[–] mr-eriksson-andreas 10 years ago

I agree with OP. OP is talking about something that many of us wants. A movie that portrays Hercules during his struggle with the 12 labors.

"No, it didn't do the original Hercules story justice but it was never meant to. "
They are still using the Hercules "Brand" to earn money on a bogus side-story.

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[–] therefdotcom 10 years ago

yeah, it is totally the film makers fault that you are too lazy to do the most basic research before watching a film. next time i watch "the penguins of madagascar" i will be totally angry, that it is not a documentary.

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[–] plusquamperfectCell 10 years ago

Wow, what an idiotic reply. Thinking Hercules was going to be about mythology is as ludicrous as thinking a cartoon is a documentary? smh

The filmmakers could have easily shown in the trailer that those mythological scenes were part of a story within the movie, but they chose not to (for obvious reasons). Regardless of your opinion about the movie itself, the trailer is very misleading.

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[–] Relics121 10 years ago

my one and only beef with this movie was it did the same thing that every Hercules movie makes. Its set up as a Greek mythology but "Hercules" was not Greek but Roman. When the Romans took over the Greek religion they changed the names of a lot of Greek gods and Goddesses. In Greek his name was Heracles. Like Hara Kleez, Then the Romans Changed it to Hercules.

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[–] stellarsiren 10 years ago

OMG! Get over the Roman/Greek name thing! It is the SAME Character! Most people know a mix of the Greek names with a few Roman thrown in (ie. Hercules vs. Heracles, Cupid vs. Eros) Big friggin' whoop! Quit being a mythology snob.

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[–] james-gicho 10 years ago

Oh Lord! Not this crap again.... Get greek or italian prod company to make a Hercules blockbuster, or quit hining! 'Nuff said.

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[–] kilipeti-705-790671 10 years ago

That's right, I went to see Dwayne rocking through the 12 labours with expected stunning visuals and I was dissapointed to watch this battle drama.
I was clarly expecting an immense adrenaline-pumping testosterone-bomb, a *beep* movie!
It's a shame not to do that while the Rock is in such great shape. He was/is a perfect Hercules. There's too few bodybuilders who can actually act.

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[–] twacy_anne 10 years ago

Well, Hercules was actually Roman, so none of those films showing Hercules and Greek myths were actually right, either.

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[–] gilbert62468 10 years ago

I did expect a little more but at the same time thought it was a decent movie, not the best one of the summer but far from the first. I do hope they change it to add some of the mythic stuff if it gets a sequel, which I think it may seeing as they were planning on a trilogy.

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[–] Darkwalker173 10 years ago

The Romans were still living in trees when the Heracles myths were being told in ancient Greece...the mythology was over 1000 years before the Roman empire was founded.

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[–] CazRaX 10 years ago

They meant that making him Greek yet calling him Hercules is wrong since Hercules was the Roman demigod while Heracles was the Greek one and they are right.

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[–] Darkwalker173 10 years ago

Hercules just like all other Roman deities was simply copied from ancient Greece. So Heracles or Hercules is pretty much the same thing.

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