MovieChat Forums > 300: Rise of an Empire (2014) Discussion > Gorgo as female commander was an insult ...

Gorgo as female commander was an insult to both men and women

posted 11 years ago by Lin301
187 replies | jump to latest

I hate how gender roles are being all messed up these days under the 'feminist' flag and anyone who dares say otherwise is a sexist. I believe in equal rights for men and women, but this is not that! This is women taking over male atributes and archetypes and thereby both denying men's masculinity and their own femninity.

I think the first 300 did it perfectly: men were men, women were women; both respected and loved the other for their attributes; women were the birthgivers, nurturing and wise, men were the leaders (not bosses!), protectors and somewhat selfdestructive as I believe all men are. This is what made the relation between Gorgo and Leonidas so intimate to me, they had a deep mutual respect for one another whilst maintaining their own gender attributes.

Then along comes Rise of an Empire and we suddenly see Gorgo swinging around a blade in her evening dress as the front commander of the Spartans. Remember how 300 ended with Dilios leading the troops (where did that battle take places anyways?) and not Gorgo; it's because it was not her role as queen of Sparta. Apparantly now we have to ensure women are just as manly as men? Even if it's a historical piece of a time where this wasn't an issue? Are we not simply destroying what it means to be a woman by having them adopt male attributes? To me this is the same as wanting equal rights for gays and then showing they can be just as hetero as hetersexual people. Am I the only one seeing the insanity of this development? I hope someone can provide me with more insight because this was just ridiculous

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Edit for further elaboration in reply to:

" women were the birthgivers, nurturing and wise, men were the leaders (not bosses!), protectors and somewhat selfdestructive as I believe all men are."

This in itself is sexist against both males and females lmao. You do realize a lot of "feminine" and "masculine" attributes are social constructs? As in they have been made up at one point and then spread? Several aspects and/or things that are commonly thought of as male or female have been neither gender or thought as belong to the opposite once upon a time (easy example is the color pink, considered to be feminine, when it was at first considered a masculine color. Now you got guys like you probably, thinking it make a man look "womanly" if he wears pink. Btw high heels were also for males at first, yet a guy wearing that would get so much crap today for acting "gay"). Do you even realize that the belief in rigid ideas about masculinity is one of the leading reasons for male suicide since it plays a huge role in causing anxiety in men? You whining over what? A female being assertive? Because that belongs only to men? That is utterly ridiculous. And lmao on women being "nurturing and wise". The idea that all women are nurturing is *beep* despite all girls being exposed to the idea that they should be since they are children (e.g. girls are almost always giving toys/dolls that they have to take care off, even if they have no interest). Guys are denied to be shown as nurturing as well as if there is someone wrong to care for others, especially their own children. No gender is inherently wise either. That is just a posterous idea.

I agree with you that some gender attributes are social constructs, but you can't deny there aren't any biological differences between men and women; I must admit I dont exactly know which is which (I don't believe a clear distinction can be made) but I do like to discuss this topic with women and most say they believe they act more from their emotions than men, which act more from their ego (which makes some sense I guess evolution-wise). The examples I gave in the part you quoted where just the ones I felt were set up in the world of the first 300, where women were respected for ''giving birth to real men'' and the men were heavily trained in the art of combat. Sexist or not, that was 300. Obviously these attributes don't apply today; I apologise for not being more clear about that. I also didn't mean to say women can't be assertive; as Gorgo was assertive in the first 300 when she stabbed that corrupt politician dude and she obviously had some control over Leonidas as he asked for her permission to kick the Persian messenger down the pitt. I actually thought she was a strong female character in that movie. My main beef was with how Rise of an Empire broke with these roles set up in the first movie and we suddenly see Gorgo on the front line waving a blade around. Note that I didn't mind Artemesia as a assertive female warrior, just how they changed Gorgo for whatever reasons; as I mentioned in the op my best guess was to conform more to modern gender roles, which is exactly what I hate in a lot of movies these days (or ever)

[–] TheValkyrie 11 years ago

I don't see the insult. There have been women warriors, queens and commanders in ancient and modern history.

While I agree that Gorgo commanding the Spartans in an evening dress isn't realistic, one has to point out that semi-naked men going to battle isn't very realistic either.

On the other hand, these movies don't pretend to be either realistic or historically accurate. These movies were made with the purposes to making money and entertain and shouldn't be taken too seriously.

[–] Daenerys-Stormborn 11 years ago

I was perplexed at the sight of Queen Gorgo swishing her sword with rage and that too without a shield or an Armour.

On the other hand, these movies don't pretend to be either realistic or historically accurate. These movies were made with the purposes to making money and entertain and shouldn't be taken too seriously.

Exactly! It was made for the sole purpose of entertainment. I don't get it why people go on and on bragging about it.

Man is a military animal, glories in gunpowder, and loves parade.

[–] Deputy_Dog 11 years ago

semi-naked men going to battle isn't very realistic either.

Celtic Britons went to battle completely naked with just some blue body paint. That is fact.

The point the OP seems to be making is that in this sequel they seem to be trying to force a feminist politic agenda in to the story at the cost of the overall quality of the film's appeal.

Embellishing the truth has been part of story telling for thousands of years. So seeing Elephants, rhinoceros, and warriors 3 or 4 times their natural size is just a flamboyant way of making a story more interesting. Think of the fisherman who tells everyone in the bar of the enormous fish that got away. However seeing a slender woman a fraction of the size of the soldiers she is battling against wearing an evening gown seems to me to be stretching the imagination too far.

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Always remember that you are a unique person, just like everybody else.

[–] venomous-5 11 years ago

Women of ancient Greece had no "actual" rights. Basically, they had no rights at all. They were treated almost like slaves. Women of Sparta on the other hand, had more rights than the women in any other place of Ancient Greece. They were treated almost like men. You can read more about the people of Sparta here: http://www.historywiz.com/didyouknow/spartanfamily.htm
I get what you're saying, but you have to consider that it's a movie, and it had to be a great entrance for the grand finale.. ;)

[–] ChuckFinnley 11 years ago

Too much ado about nothing. It's not like there was a legion of women fighting like men, right? So I don't think either masculinity or femininity suffered in this case. And remember, folks, this is just an CGI fantasy, and fantasies normally have to do very little, if anything, with reality.

[–] theoncastillo566 11 years ago

Pretty soon hollywood would start doing movie on famous inventors and infer one/or more than one of the following:

1. The inventors got their idea from a woman
2. A woman was the inventor of the idea but because of male oppress society it was acknowledge under the male inventors name (Warehouse 13/H.G. Wells is an example)
3. A woman helped them work on the invention.

[–] Strazdamonas 11 years ago

thereby both denying men's masculinity and their own femninity.

Good. because these concepts themselves are sexist in nature. If we take that both sides are equal, ten both can be masculine and feminine.

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Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.

[–] hannahsmum 11 years ago

you're a moron, OP. being a military commander is a job, not an "attribute". anybody can be one. and you can't ban half the population from serving in a job, and then claim the reason they are not serving in that job is being its not "natural" to them. *beep* doesn't work that way. and people in hollywood could hardly give a *beep* if you don't want to see women portrayed in roles that men previously barred them from. why should they restrict their creativity because insecure crybaby men can't handle seeing a woman where they don't want women to be? get a life.

[–] InternationaleClique 11 years ago

you're a moron, OP. being a military commander is a job, not an "attribute".

Being a commander requires leadership, and that's an attribute.

anybody can be one.

Ridiculous. Probably less than 1 percent would stand a chance at doing anything decent.

and you can't ban half the population from serving in a job,

You can and we frequently do when the skills required for a job is only met by so many.

and then claim the reason they are not serving in that job is being its not "natural" to them.

If they aren't up to the task, clearly it's not natural to them.

why should they restrict their creativity because insecure crybaby men can't handle seeing a woman where they don't want women to be? get a life.

If they had only been creative.

[–] krldraav 11 years ago

Having her as a soldier was a liability for the rest of the army, in the first movie they shoo away the hunchback just because he couldnt hold the hoplon shield properly meaning he wasnt able to cover himself and the soldier at his side.
What's really an insult to human intelligence is that magic horse that appears out of thin air and is able to jump on water 10 minutes before the movie ends.

[–] larshevn 10 years ago

This. I thought she was portrayed as a strong woman in 300, although she was still confined to her traditional place of the age. I thought it was a nice compromise between female strength and historical plausability (even as the rest of the movie is filled with anachronisms and inaccuracy).

Seeing her as a raging berserker really makes you ask why she wasn't fighting in the vanguard at Thermopylae.