I'm not talking about what her original human form is, the features of the cyborg are quite European. If you watched the movie you would know.
That’s just the art style. Again, the context makes it clear that the character is racially Japanese same as how the context for The Simpsons makes it clear they are white despite how they look.
DC cyborg is not entirely mechanic/electrical. Most of him is his original body, so your analogy fails, badly.
Not only that but you fail even more badly when you take a look at the comics character and notice that his cyborg/metal body parts are ... silver/white. The mayor FULL body is artificial.
Ok but even if his mechanical parts were not outwardly visible and his body were completely artificial, he’s still black and people would (rightly) be upset if a white actor were cast. Looking and passing as human means having a racial appearance.
But I do know that you would have NO Problem with a black superman ...
Then you know nothing. If you mean Val-Zod or Calvin Ellis, yes no problem there. If you mean Clark Kent, that would be very wrong.
And that makes it ok? Reverse discrimination IS discrimination. If you want "equality" that's not how you get it, by discriminating against and alienating the other side.
You're preaching to choir, but I can see where the others are coming from. Someone who prioritizes representation of nonwhite groups is going to favor something that creates it (even if it’s forced) and condemn something that removes it. Not very hard to understand.
And btw, we are NOT living in 1960 anymore, leave those anachronic arguments for their time.
You know what else we don’t live in? A vacuum.
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asom (6824)
3 months ago
"That’s just the art style. Again, the context makes it clear that the character is racially Japanese same as how the context for The Simpsons makes it clear they are white despite how they look."
Yes, the character IINSIDE the cyborg is racially Japanese, the cyborg you even admit that it looks European.
It's the same in the movie, the character INSIDE the cyborg is racially Japanese. Have you even seen the movie???
And that's EXACTLY that: it follows the ART style of the manga. The ART STYLE is of an European looking Cyborg with a Japanese character INSIDE.
Thanks for finally understanding some of it.
"Ok but even if his mechanical parts were not outwardly visible and his body were completely artificial, he’s still black and people would (rightly) be upset if a white actor were cast. Looking and passing as human means having a racial appearance."
No, it doesn't. As I said: all his cyborg parts ARE NOT BLACK. If you replace ALL his body with Cyborg parts in the same color WHAT do you get? A white cyborg ... tadaaaaaa. His black persona is not visible anymore.
Just how the Mayor Japanese persona is not visible anymore - all her body IS cybernetic, only the brain is Japanese. You still don't get the difference ... Scarlet is just how the Cyborg looks, the art style.
" If you mean Clark Kent, that would be very wrong."
https://hypebeast.com/2021/2/superman-reboot-black-ta-nehisi-coates-warner-bros-info
"You know what else we don’t live in? A vacuum."
EXACTLY. We don't.
Have you seen altered carbon?
Takeshi Kovacs is introduced as a white character, then we learn that’s just a sleeve and apparently the original was asiatic. And in the next season it was a black sleeve,
Which one was wrong and why?
The mayor is basically a sleeve …
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Razor187 (55)
2 months ago
Yes, the character IINSIDE the cyborg is racially Japanese, the cyborg you even admit that it looks European.
It's the same in the movie, the character INSIDE the cyborg is racially Japanese. Have you even seen the movie???
And that's EXACTLY that: it follows the ART style of the manga. The ART STYLE is of an European looking Cyborg with a Japanese character INSIDE.
Thanks for finally understanding some of it.
She is Japanese on the OUTSIDE as well. I don't doubt that to YOU she looks European (to me, no), but the context doesn't support it.
No, it doesn't. As I said: all his cyborg parts ARE NOT BLACK. If you replace ALL his body with Cyborg parts in the same color WHAT do you get? A white cyborg ... tadaaaaaa. His black persona is not visible anymore.
Just how the Mayor Japanese persona is not visible anymore - all her body IS cybernetic, only the brain is Japanese. You still don't get the difference ... Scarlet is just how the Cyborg looks, the art style.
You misunderstand me. What I’m suggesting is the opposite: that the mechanical parts are all hidden and the black persona is what’s fully shown. Nobody would say that he lacks a race and that it would be acceptable for a white actor to play him.
https://hypebeast.com/2021/2/superman-reboot-black-ta-nehisi-coates-warner-bros-info
There's been no indication that will actually happen. I'd be shocked if Zazlav and Gunn allow it.
EXACTLY. We don't.
Have you seen altered carbon?
Takeshi Kovacs is introduced as a white character, then we learn that’s just a sleeve and apparently the original was asiatic. And in the next season it was a black sleeve,
Which one was wrong and why?
The mayor is basically a sleeve …
No I haven’t. Which is wrong? Whichever goes against the book.
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asom (6824)
2 months ago
"She is Japanese on the OUTSIDE as well. I don't doubt that to YOU she looks European (to me, no), but the context doesn't support it."
She is not. Most likely you haven't seen the anime.
In the context of the story, Kusanagi is a cyborg whose consciousness can inhabit various bodies, making her physical appearance less tied to a specific ethnicity. The character's design is influenced by a blend of cultural elements, reflecting the cyberpunk themes of the series. Ultimately, her identity transcends traditional racial categories, emphasizing her role as a complex character in a futuristic world.
"Motoko’s shell model is Caucasian with a different color option. It is a mass produced model like a car."
https://qr.ae/p2CWuL
https://qr.ae/p2CWbq
"No I haven’t. Which is wrong? Whichever goes against the book."
Neither is wrong.
That's the point.
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Razor187 (55)
2 months ago
She is not. Most likely you haven't seen the anime.
In the context of the story, Kusanagi is a cyborg whose consciousness can inhabit various bodies, making her physical appearance less tied to a specific ethnicity. The character's design is influenced by a blend of cultural elements, reflecting the cyberpunk themes of the series. Ultimately, her identity transcends traditional racial categories, emphasizing her role as a complex character in a futuristic world.
"Motoko’s shell model is Caucasian with a different color option. It is a mass produced model like a car."
https://qr.ae/p2CWuL
https://qr.ae/p2CWbq
The model is not “Cauasian,” that is false. Never is it said that she is anything other than Japanese in appearance and there’s no reason to think that she isn’t. She is never treated as though she doesn’t look like she belongs in that society.
Neither is wrong.
That's the point.
It is if it’s not in the book.
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asom (6824)
2 months ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motoko_Kusanagi
Motoko Kusanagi's body was designed by the manga author and artist Masamune Shirow to be a mass production model so she would not be conspicuous.
"Never is it said that she is anything other than Japanese in appearance and there’s no reason to think that she isn’t"
Never is it said that she is Japanese in appearance.
"She is never treated as though she doesn’t look like she belongs in that society."
Really? A society in a future so advanced that the race doesn't matter anymore?
No, she looks Caucasian, you're wrong.
"It is if it’s not in the book."
Who cares about the book?
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Razor187 (55)
2 months ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motoko_Kusanagi
Motoko Kusanagi's body was designed by the manga author and artist Masamune Shirow to be a mass production model so she would not be conspicuous.
Never is it said that she is Japanese in appearance.
Well, exactly. If she weren't, somebody would say something about it.
Really? A society in a future so advanced that the race doesn't matter anymore?
No, that's Star Trek. The world of GitS is hardly utopian.
Who cares about the book?
Uh, the people who read it? Viewers who like it when the source material is respected?
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asom (6824)
2 months ago
"Well, exactly. If she weren't, somebody would say something about it."
Not really, why would they?
"No, that's Star Trek. The world of GitS is hardly utopian."
Is mostly dystopian, but that's another problem, unrelated to how people see race in a cyberworld.
"Uh, the people who read it? Viewers who like it when the source material is respected?"
That has nothing to do with that we are discussing here.
And it was an example on how the character was changed, without being "whitewashing" or "blackwashing" - you are so biased that it's crazy ...
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Razor187 (55)
2 months ago
Not really, why would they?
It's a country where virtually everyone is the same race. Why WOULDN'T it come up?
Is mostly dystopian, but that's another problem, unrelated to how people see race in a cyberworld.
Be that as it may, it's not a "post-racial" society. Advancements in robotics do not cause long-standing prejudices to simply vanish.
That has nothing to do with that we are discussing here.
It has to do with the question that was asked.
And it was an example on how the character was changed, without being "whitewashing" or "blackwashing" - you are so biased that it's crazy ...
It is if he wasn't those in the book.
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