seriously? the door are supposed to be broke down by some kinda chain saw? and the window glass, so fragile, i mean, if i pay that much money for an apartment, at least the window should be bullet proof right?
shareYeah some bad writing. I guess they took the shortcut and let the villians get in with a chainsaw!! Plus for 8.5million I would think he would have an even more fortified safe room in his safe pad. I'm talk bank vault.
shareWho has bulletproof glass in a penthouse?
Unless you are worried about snipers or attacks from a helicopter, why in the world would you need that?
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Hey, I agree that they seemed to get in too easily. Eddie was focused, not paranoid. If anything, he was more careless. He probably thought a panic room and reinforced doors were enough. At the price, I admit that the condo was a ripoff but he was so focused on the big merger that he didn't seem to care about much else.
shareTheres no point in having bulletproof glass in a penthouse. If someone is shooting at you from the outside, they're either a sniper with a high-powered rifle whose bullets will go through the glass anyway, or a helicopter mounted cannon, with the same results.
You sir have no idea how bulletproof glass works.
shareHe's right in a way. A lot of "bulletproof" glass definetly wouldn't stand a hit from a really powerful sniper rifle. It all depends on the make and model. Some are only thick enough to withstand a handgun while others are made to pretty much withstand an rpg.
shareIt still deflects the bullet. A mini gun and a helicopter would probably work best.
shareMany doors can be kicked open, some with more than 1 kick, but his door was not one of those. You live in as much safety as Eddie? I bet you can get through your door with less than a chainsaw and a gun.
Bulletproof glass is rarely set in from the moment of constructing an apartment, but are custom ordered and produced when ordered by the owner, which Eddie had not done.
The 8.5 million dollars price tag? Vaults, metal doors, penthouse apartment, location, view.
I will agree though, despite you exaggerating it, that for the price and description of fortress/bunker, it should've been stronger to intruders.
Are American doors really as frail as depicted in movies? I thought it was just a movie thing given how robust your average swedish door is. There just no way anyone is kicking my door in.
shareI don't know about american doors. Mostly, it was just a figure of speech, but I'm guessing there wouldn't be trouble getting through your door with the materials used by the bad guys in the movie.
I admit though, it seemed rather quickly they got through a solid metal door.
Some are and some aren't, depending on how much the builder wants to put into it. Some old houses have nice, solid doors. My grandparents had a good door, with an old skeleton key that they used up into the 90s. Me, I've locked my keys in the house and had to kick my way in. Its usually not the door that is weak, but the frame that gives. Our walls are pretty weak too. In the USA we don't use brick interior walls.
Love's turned to lust and blood's turned to dust in my heart.
I think you mean DEFINITELY.
shareThe previous occupant was an arms dealer. Perhaps he had enemies who had access to very powerful guns and were well trained assasins.
shareThe much bigger plothole is:
Where the hell are all the neighbours?
With that kind of noise you could hear the chainsaw even up and down ten floors.
And in that "rich environment" you could be as sure as hell that the police would be around in no time after one of the inhabitants would call the police.
Haha, so if we are to give the movie the benefit of the doubt regarding this matter, then we'll just have to assume that the broker was a snake oil salesman. Apparently, our main character, in all his "geniusness" when on NZT, is not smart enough to detect he was dealing with one.
But we know better than that. This is just plain lazy, unintelligent writing. Why introduce a security enhanced $8.5 Million "bunker" and then plainly disregard it entirely and have it breached like it was just some regular apartment? They cut through the steel door like hot knife through butter.
By the way, it wasn't really clear if it was chainsaw. Only sparks can be seen so it might have been some other steel cutting tools.
http://feelingclose.com/greyhoundz
by - BigBadLarry on Fri Oct 14 2011 09:57:41 The much bigger plothole is:
Where the hell are all the neighbours?
With that kind of noise you could hear the chainsaw even up and down ten floors.
And in that "rich environment" you could be as sure as hell that the police would be around in no time after one of the inhabitants would call the police.
FINALLY! A REAL plothole and not just a different opinion of choices!
I agree. In a building that "secure" you would think someone would notice. Since he had the penthouse, the whole top was probably just his apartment but surely the use of high powered tools would draw attention.
Well, in the beginning of the movie, they showed one of his neighbours getting killed by the guys while they were breaking into his apartment, because the neighbour was investigating the noise.
"It could be worse. We could be surrounded by a pack of wild dogs."
by - ambrosia-apples on Thu Nov 24 2011 03:22:44
Well, in the beginning of the movie, they showed one of his neighbours getting killed by the guys while they were breaking into his apartment, because the neighbour was investigating the noise.
I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out.
:-) I do agree, though, that there was an awful lot of shooting and very little response from neighbours. But everything happened fairly quickly, perhaps they were hiding in their apartments and calling 911.
"It could be worse. We could be surrounded by a pack of wild dogs."
Didn't he also have some guards outside his door? What happened to them. Its hard to believe a luxury condo like that doesnt have better security.
shareI'm going to think logically about the neighbor situation and why they didn't hear anything. This condo was 8.5 million. Its safe to assume that the neighbors were rich as well. With this much wealth and living in "an apartment" I can only imagine that everyone had incredible sound proofing. Besides,this movie had so much suspension of disbelief its forgivable that the neighbors didn't hear anything or get involved. Also, how many movies in similar situations did neighbors get involved or hear anything? So far I can only think of the movie Bound, and when the cops showed up, the noise was dismissd as the TV was too loud, which is very chiche I might add.
_
Every person that served can be called a veteran, but not every veteran can be called a Marine.
They killed them. And they cut off the phone lines or something didn't they?
shareThey killed his personal guards, but surely there would be condo security?
look at me, im hot http://www.salon.com/sept97/mothers/obese970922.gif - stephcha
you'd assume they killed them too...they were pretty hardcore.
shareYeah, this was the part that was intensely stupid. 8.5 million means a doorman building. NOBODY just gets up, unless they've been killed. A building that tall, it would have residents going in and out, they'd either see that dead doorman, or they'd wonder where the hell the doorman is, and the police would be called.
These guys were using a chainsaw on a door for what, 10 minutes? 15 minutes? And the neighbors didn't hear? do anything? And then they're shooting guns off? Come on! That's insane!
A decent movie, a fun "action" scene, but it was entirely ridiculous. I can only suspend my disbelief so far.
I want the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.
His cellphone network was jammed, you could see he had no signal. Pretty much assuming that the russian goons had some sort of a network jammer in place which jammed all other mobile phones. Neighbours, guards...what have you.
Owner of Middle Earth!
One of his neighbours did hear the noise, and did complain, and got killed for that, it was the first scene of the movie...
sharea guy whose broker promised him it was practically a fortress. did you not see the whole security over-kill montage when he bought it?
share[deleted]
I'm talk bank vault.share
"Plus for 8.5million I would think he would have an even more fortified safe room in his safe pad."
And another exit, and an emergency alarm system, and some kind of gas system, sleeping gas, body armors, weapons of SOME kind, traps, better camera system that can't be broken so easily (this was really ludicrous), security guards (even robotic that he could probably develop with his superbrain), a dog, an automatic line to a security company or police, if the door is not opened 'legitimately' ..
He could have had _ANYTHING_, and he had _NOTHING_.
Not very intelligent in my opinion.. and what were the doors made of? Tin foil?
"Yeah some bad writing."
Consistent with the rest of the movie.
This movie is one big exercize in bad writing - it's like a bad-writing marathon-essay, it's like they had a competition as to who can include the worst possible writing and still create a movie that people will go see.
That whole expensive condo with a vault-thing is easily the most ridiculous part of this ridiculous movie (the 'let's loan 100k from a thug, completely unnecessarily' takes the second place).
Ummm.... the $8.5M was, I would imagine, mostly because of the location.
IIRC the condo/apartment was on the top floor. Its possible these people have their own elevator and own security - which the bad guys took out. Also, there was a neighbor that was unfortunate enough to see what was going on ... he was also killed. Its also possible the bad guy went in knowing that all (or most) the other neighbors were gone, out, on vacation, etc... and yeah, they may have some good sound proofing (but not THAT good).
"Bullet" proof glass will only stop small bullets .... It would have made no difference.
The luxury condo/bunker did take some time for the bad guys to break into. Also, the leader of the bad guys was on NTZ at the time - so he was pretty smart - and I think this goes to the speed of the breakin.
Finally, earlier in the movie we see the bad guy, pre-NZT and he was tracking and watching Eddie. So the bad guy knew where Eddie moved to and likely knew the layout of security people and systems - so he could either evade them, bypass them or remove (kill) them.
I actually think the movie handled this part well.
Never mind bulletproof glass, the bud guy went easily through the window at the end when pushed by that very light piano!
Its that man again!!
Baby grands weigh at least 500 lbs. Pushed hard enough that's enough momentum to break through most glass.
As an apologist turned authority I don't defend my comments because I am always right.
decent points, but why have such a strong door on one side of the apartment and a frail glass one on the other? there wasn't that much space between neighbouring apartments, so anybody who wanted to gain access to yours could easily get there via your neighbour's.
basically, there just wasn't a need to emphasise how safe the apartment was beyond the estate agent saying something like "there are guards on the door 24/7."
and yes....i do feel somewhat stupid quibbling over such a trivial detail!
Funnily enough, this was the second thought I had after watching them break the video cameras. In most high security places I know of, the cameras are not accessible or visible. And there aren't only 4 of them.
But even those places are nothing compared to an 8.5m penthouse.
Just ridiculous.
Safety glass walls too. That somehow created a point to stab the guy through the back while shattering into thousands of little pieces...???
soooooo may holes in this one. Reminds me of 'In Time'.
Plot hole keep slapping you in the face.
Barely time to finish reacting to one before another one pops up.
A guy who quintuples his money every day, with 7500 bucks in his pocket needs to borrow 100 grand because he's not making it fast enough. Of course, 2 days later, his 7500 would have become 187500, and we'll assume that he wasted most of the first day playing around with the thug, so that is actually only 24 hours behind.
And he can count cards?
*sigh*
And I'm really surprised that he couldn't get a signal on his phone to call for help?!?
I CHOSE NOT TO CHOOSE LIFE.
It's not a chainsaw, it's an angle grinder. Any amount of security is just a deterrent, not a prevention.
shareIt was probably a gas powered rescue saw--like firefighters use; basically a big angle grinder.
share
"Any amount of security is just a deterrent, not a prevention. "
I have seen this claim before, and it is, of course, false.
If you were right, Fort Knox and the biggest bank vaults would be raided every week, and the police and army and all the security guards would be completely helpless against the raiders.
But you know what? They aren't raided every week.
Look at the most secure places in the world - they are not "just deterrents", they ARE preventions.
I mean, that extremist-claim works the other way around as well. If you are claiming, like some dumb people here have, that "If someone REALLY wants to get inside, they will", then you have to take into account that "If someone REALLY wants to be secure, they will be".
There is a great number of ways that the supposedly smart guy could have learned from real-world 'secure places'.
I would like to see you get into Fort Knox or the Rotschild bank vaults of the world, without getting arrested, killed, detained, beaten up, etc.
He could have had a door that you CANNOT bring down with a small, portable grinder (or whatever it was).
He could have had TRAPS installed, that activate automatically when he is safely inside or safely outside, and which activate an alarm if they stop working. I mean, if the floor opens up from below you, gravity generally forces you to fall down. What could be installed down there to trap you indefinitely, knock you out, damage you physically, is up to the 'smart guy', but the possibilities are almost 'limitless'.
He could have a vacuum surrounding the apartment from all sides, so that anyone who tries to simply walk in, would suffocate for lack of air. Ok, they can have oxygen tanks, but then there could be a computer-aided defense network that would detect such apparatus and use magnetism/robotic arms/moving, metallic grids, moving walls, etc. to still create a situation where the intruders are either trapped, killed, injured, whatever.
With enough imagination, competence and experience - and especially intelligence, like this guy is supposed to have - a perfectly secure (at least against those idiot thugs) place would be perfectly viable and doable.
There's also calling the security guards, calling the police, and so on. Having backup systems, then having backup systems OF the backup systems. Having wireless automated alarms that cannot be gotten to except from the inside, and having them sound whenever the door is opened 'illegitimately' or broken. Having such a complex, complicated and multi-layered protection system that the russian Thug could never anticipate it all, no matter how much of a 'drug' he has taken.
But in _ANY_ case, even if your claim is true (which it of course isn't, because we don't live in a vacuum, but there are police, armies, security guards, prisons, and so on, that WILL protect the wealthy from robbers), we could (and SHOULD) still have been shown something a LITTLE bit better than an un-armored thug with a portable grinder, cutting through the 'super safe door' like it's tin foil.
Come on, if you use your imagination, you will realize that a any prevention is easy, and any attempts to break into a fully secure system is only an attempt, never a success.
I mean, it's so easy even for a kid to figure out a better security system - the ONLY reason those thugs got in was because the writer had decided that THAT is what should happen. That's the only reason.
In real life, the police would have been there, the security guards would have been there, there would _NOT_ have been time for the thugs to cut through even 10 times thinner metal door, the thugs would have been unconscious from tear gas, sleeping gas, lack of oxygen, and they would have been helplessly trapped by the floor becoming a trapdoor and opening up and then some kind of system simply immobilizing them temporarily so they can be brought to justice.
There is NO WAY any small group of thugs can get into an ACTUALLY SECURE place, unless they ARE the police/army/etc. and thus, those forces can't be called to protect that place.
I mean, your claim can be true in extreme cases, where the police/army/security guards aren't available (in a city, they always are, if you have planned your security system well), OR are working against you. If someone has time on their side, THEN your claim might be true.
If we imagine a very remote location and a huge amount of people and expertise, and a lone man with only a vault to protect him, then your claim might be closer to truth. But it is clearly not true in the case of the movie, and it's clearly not true for most, 'normal' cases, happening in the city.
Besides, with enough imagination and resources, even that remote location could be secured for months, if not years, even if there is a huge army of people with lots of expertise and resources - it just comes down to whose resources are better and more useful, sophisticated, advanced, etc.
What if that remote location can, for example, be teleported to another location? Or if it turns out to be just a decoy? And so on.
Basically this "security vs. intruders" problem is like one of Zeno's paradoxes - "What happens when an immovable object is met by an irresistible force"..
With such a confrontation, of course the other side always wins - but the winner is clearly not predetermined, or NO SECURITY WOULD EVEN BOTHER TO EVER EXIST ANYWHERE IN ANY FORM!
For your claim to be true, security would be completely inefficient and unnecessary.
But in real world, security has prevented many a burglary and robbery, and injured many an intruder. Security works, if done properly - it DOES prevent, not only deter. Otherwise there wouldn't be any point for security to exist.
So: you are wrong.
Some wealthy guy in NYC just sold a top floor apt for over $20 Mil. That $8.5 mil apt was a steal. The security was a bonus.
No one is commenting on the fact that the front door had three triple bolts and they only cut through one to gain access.
As an apologist turned authority I don't defend my comments because I am always right.
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Plot holes are what makes this movie even more awesome... we don' want another movie where small time thugs figure a way out into a bulding with a chainsaw, we just want to see them get at that door with a chainsaw telling teh person behind them im gonna cut you in half an *beep* like that. Man you are idiots.
share
Plot holes are what makes this movie even more awesome... we don' want another movie where small time thugs figure a way out into a bulding with a chainsaw, we just want to see them get at that door with a chainsaw telling teh person behind them im gonna cut you in half an *beep* like that. Man you are idiots.
Ok, fair enough... then why even present the "This penthouse is like super secure you guise!!" angle? Just have him in a regular old penthouse with a locking elevator door they could cut through just as easy. Or even just a heavy wood door. It's completely moronic to present the apartment as being a "bunker" with a "vault door", only to have a couple thugs break into it with no problem.... cutting into the door and opening it in a way that wasn't even possible with the door they showed originally.
That part must have been an oversight. When he buys the condo he is told they are vault grade security doors, then they show the bolts (3 on top and 3 lower)
Actual vault doors don't use butt hinges (from door to jamb), but instead used massive pivot assemblies to support the weight, so the door doesn't sag and it is stronger.
When the Russians break in with what sounds like a chain saw, must have been a gas powered 14" (or so) cut off saw, like a concrete saw. When the door breaks open, there is a Schlage (looks like) mortise lock and the door is a welded tube steel frame skinned with a light gauge sheet metal- like the stainless you have on your fridge, nothing vault grade about it. Just a 1 3/4" standard entry door, just made with light gauge metal materials.
That realtor lied to him, and changed the entry door after he bought the place. I'm surprised with his elated powers of observation he didn't pick up on this.
It really wouldn't take much to get through that door, if it really was a vault door it would be a different story. And the glass would have been tempered, not that easy to break!
As far as the strength of doors in America, they are all different. The important thing people often miss is the strike plate for the deadbolt. There is suppose to be another thicker plate installed under the finish plate, and this thicker plate is fastened to the framing with 3" #12 screws. Many installers skip this step so only a 3/4 inch piece of jamb with a hole drilled through it close to the edge has to be kicked in.
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That wasn't even the stupidest bit. For a guy who apparently was so smart, Eddie didn't think of having at least a gun in his penthouse, you know just in case someone did break in? Pointless getting all the security without a bit of bite (self defence guns).
I thought he'd at least have a panic room with a secure phone line/panic button.
Don't remember If he had either but that would have been a no brainer to me.