MovieChat Forums > Drag Me to Hell (2009) Discussion > Christine wasn't THAT bad of a person......

Christine wasn't THAT bad of a person.....


One thing that angers me about the movie!

There are people on here saying that Christine deserved everything she got. Err, sorry what? She denied a woman of a LOAN... I really don't think she deserved to burn in hell for ETERNITY for this. I'm pretty sure everyone of us have done something just as bad OR worse than this in our lives! Do we deserve to go to hell too?

And also, by saying she deserved to be sent there, is like saying she is as awful as murderers and rapists, who obviously DO deserve it! And yet, just by doing her job (regardless of why she denied the woman - even if it was for a selfish purpose, which I'm pretty sure a few people have done in the past) she is sent to hell, to burn for eternity! Grrr...

Rant over, thank you :)

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One of the reasons I think this movie is so good is that it does provoke a lot of theological and philosophical discussions.

I am not going to provide any fancy quotes, but I'll just give my personal feelings on the matter.

My biggest point of contention of Christine "deserving what she got" is the character of Mrs. Garnush herself. Who the hell is she to decide who goes to hell or not? What kind of moral authority does she have? I have a hard time as a human being placing that kind of judgment on people. As a Christian, I kind of feel like that kind of decision is in God's hands, and that's it. As a human being no better than myself or Christine, I feel like the gypsy has no right to condemn someone to hell just because she felt she was wronged. Christine made a decision based on greed, sure, but so does Garnush, and her greed stems from hatred, spite, and a desire for lopsided vengeance. Assaulting her in the parking lot wasn't revenge enough? Or haunting her for three days? No, she has to go to hell because this woman says so. OK.

Christine is never even given a chance to repent for her decision. Early on, she actually does feel guilt about it (she mentions to Clay before the haunting starts and AFTER the parking lot attack) that she should have given her the extension. Then of course all hell breaks lose and Garnush dies, so she is just dealing with a ton of crap no mortal person I know of has ever had to deal with.

And to her credit, Christine is given the opportunity to do exactly what Garnush did and pass the curse off to somebody else, condemning that person to hell in the process. She is tempted to do it. It would have been easy to do it, but she doesn't, not even to save herself. Christine decides that she can't pass that kind of sentence on a soul. She ultimately decides to just give it to the soul that conjured up the curse in the first place, which is reasonable. Give the curse back to where it came from. And by that point, she had been tormented & threatened with hell for three days. At one point, she would have asked Garnush for forgiveness, but the gypsy is a vengeful & hate-filled person and it probably wouldn't have made any difference.

In the end, I feel like Christine was the victim of one bad decision, a vengeful witch, & a whole bunch of black arts stuff that she was clueless about to begin with, and was forced into making hard desperate decisions in a short amount of time under a ton of stress (to say the least). And that is sort of the point of the movie. We all make decisions like Christine's with denying the bank loan every day. People are imperfect. She just made her choice against the wrong person.

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I don't think she deserved to burn in Hell either. Did she deserve to get her ass kicked? Yes. Maybe have her house covered in slugs and her car keyed beyond recognition by the gypsy? Yep.
But for one thing, if this gypsy is so powerful...why was she in debt? She can literally snatch someone to HELL, but she can't pay her mortgage?!
Christine was a bitch, she wasn't 'doing her job' to me she was being greedy.
But she didn't deserve that!


"I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus."
"Didn't he discover America?"
"Penfold, shush."

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> But for one thing, if this gypsy is so powerful...why was she in debt?

Probably, she was not so powerful.

> She can literally snatch someone to HELL, but she can't pay her mortgage?!

Probably, she cannot do either of these things.

Christine is dragged to hell by an evil demon who sometimes assumes the guise of Christine's victim. Christine, through her own escalating wickedness and stubbornness, puts herself deeper and deeper in the demon's power.

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Christine didn't deserve to go to hell but she did make mistakes. Mrs Ganush was the real bad guy for unleashing the demon on people that did not deserve such a fate. The kid at the start of the movie didn't deserve to go to hell, neither did Christine.

Everyone makes mistakes in life but that doesn't necessarily make one an evil or bad person.

Sometimes even half-decent people can suffer. The point is not what Christine did but who she did it too.

Christine was not wicked or stubborn. She was just a regular person put in a difficult situation. Despite this she still chose not to pass on the button to anyone in the diner. She passed that test and showed some compassion. She even felt remorse for denying the loan extension but was not given a chance to redeem herself and survive.

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I completely agree. The one who acted badly was the old woman. She broke in to her car and assaulted her. Then she cursed her for doing her job.

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I agree she wasn't that bad but she did make the wrong choice with the loan, unfortunately for her. Had she known who she was dealing with she may have decided otherwise but she really wanted that job.

Would a Cupcake kill you?

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[deleted]

> I don't understand the argument Christine 'deserved' to go to hell
> for refusing a loan at all.

Well, its not like she got dragged to hell right away. She did a bunch of other nasty stuff before she got dragged to hell. Like running off and trying to leave her boyfriend with the "cursed" button (her final act).

> People claim the old gypsy died out of sorrow for loosing her home

The timing does seem significant. But if she was really on the verge of death anyway, then it only underscores the pointlessness of Christine's cruelty to a sick woman.

> but Christine was just doing her job [...]

But she wasn't! Her job involves granting extensions; she clearly believed, in this case, that granting an extension was the right thing to do; and her boss gave her permission to grant the extension. Clearly, if she was JUST doing her job, she would have granted the extension.

> and although some say it wasn't the charitable thing to do it was the
> best thing for the business Christine worked for

This is, of course, also true of a thug who mugs you in an alley. But Christine did not do it for the bank (which would have not lost anything from the extension - the loan is secure). She did it for Christine. She did it to prove that Christine could be "tough" and cruel, because she thought that would get her a promotion; which would get her a rich husband. It was cruelty for the sake of cruelty for the sake of personal greed.

> and she simply did as she thought best,

Not at all. Maybe she did what YOU thought best; but she did what SHE believed to be wrong. And then she lies about it. The script makes that 100% clear.

> nobody owed Mrs. Ganush a thing.

You go further than other Christine defenders here. Few would claim that sick old widows should be thrown in the gutter and left to die because no-one wants to help them. What others have tried to say, is that Mrs. Ganush is indeed owed charity, but Christine is not the person to do it. Rather, it should be the taxpayers, or the grand-daughter, or the guests at her funeral - anyone but Christine.

> but I can never understand why anyone would sympathise with an old hag
> bitch who attacks people simply for not giving her free money.

Okay. But this cannot justify Christine's reactions. Since Christine did not know how Ganush would react, Ganush's retaliation (however unjustified) cannot possibly excuse Christine's original cruelty.

As for "free money": Ganush was not asking for free money. She was asking for an extension of time on the repayment of a loan. Interest would still be charged (nothing was said about waiving it), and the entire outstanding amount was secured by the equity in her home (which was plenty, as the script establishes).

But the creature in the parking garage was probably not Ganush, but the demon. Ganush was likely already dead at that point.

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[deleted]

> I believe it was the ghost of Ganush.

We agree it was a supernatural entity. It appears or materializes inside a car after being heard coughing OUTSIDE the car. But if we go this far, why not the demon? Some points:

- at the beginning of the film, just after the credits, the demon seems to descend to Christine from the clouds (the camera descends toward her accompanied by "buzzy-fly" violin sounds). This occurs exactly 72 hours (3 days) before her helldragging.

- the parking lot encounter is prefaced by swirling leaves - which the opening credit sequence establishes as a sign of the demon on "the first day".

- the parking lot encounter is prefaced by squeaky-door type sounds - the "cry of the Lamia".

- Lorna Raver, in interviews, made comments indicating she understood herself to be playing 2 roles, one of which she refers to as "the demon version of Mrs. Ganush".

- In folklore, one popular form of the Lamia is that of a slovenly old woman.

> and says to Christine: "soon it will be YOU who comes begging to ME"; a
> clear reference to the shaming episode that so enraged Ganush.

I'd say it's ambiguous. Yes, the demon wants Christine to think of her as Ganush. Why impersonate her otherwise? But, as a prediction, it better fits the demon. Christine does not clearly come begging to Ganush (though, arguably, she tries to). She DOES come begging to the Lamia.

> And whoever or whatever was in the back of Christine's car seemed to want
> to kill her there and then.

It was acting like it wanted to EAT her, matching the later behavior of the demon-possessed Milos at the seance (trying as though to eat Christine, after vomiting the cat she offered in her place). Also the demon's words: "We will feat upon it [Christine's soul] as she festers in the grave."

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It was not only the loan , tha she could help anyway . it was all her attitude. She killed the old lady. I mean yes the old lady attacked first but she could calm her not treat her like that.. and the reason the old lady attacked was that she maked her feel ashamed calling the police and not trying to make her calm for all this. She had no reason , it was a poor old lady and cristine was educated wealthy and powerful so she could do whatever she wanted ?right? nooooooooo..

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First of all, why should anyone be sent to eternal damnation because they chose not to give something to someone else? Who does the old gypsy think she is that she's entitled to whatever another has that she wants?


Second, I don't think she wanted a loan but this was about the gypsy NOT paying a debt she literally signed documents PROMISING she would pay back. How evil of Christine to want the money back that the gypsy already promised she would return!


Civility is just a warm and fuzzy name for censorship.

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Christine demonstrated hubris instead of humanity in several instances throughout the film. It wasn't like she simply refused to extend the woman's loan, it was the way she chose to go about it, with arrogance and tardiness. Rather than consider the consequences, even for a moment, Christine chose to 'impress' her boss, because that's how she perceived the situation. In truth, her boss had no expectations whatsoever of the decision he empowered her with.

It wasn't so much Christine's decision itself that brought the curse on and kept it there, but her frequent hubris and complete disregard for her shallow decision. She had the chance to 'repent' in the car on day 1, hell, she even had the chance to reconsider her decision when the woman begged her. Instead, she took it personally, tried to play equal when she was out of her league, when all she had to do was show some respect and remorse from day 1. It's a bit like the Sean Penn character in U-Turn, you got this impending sense of doom for the hubris shown by blind-sided lead character, although i would argue that U-Turn did it better.

I agree, it didn't seem enough for Christine to ultimately pay with her life, but it highlighted that her actions and conduct were chosen by her, and were not some haphazard consequence of life.

Interesting film, entertaining!

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christine not being a bad person made the movie IMO.

she was under pressure from everywhere and ended up saying no to the wrong person and paid with her soul.

her boyfriends parents didnt like her, she had to battle an obnoxious co worker for a promotion at work (seemed like she was in 2nd place til the end of the movie), and it seemed like she had offscreen family problems, she probably also felt inferior to her boyfriend who was from a rich upbringing.

the raimi brothers wanted to make a tale of morality more than a horror movie and they succeeded.

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First of all, why should anyone be sent to eternal damnation because they chose not to give something to someone else? Who does the old gypsy think she is that she's entitled to whatever another has that she wants?


Second, I don't think she wanted a loan but this was about the gypsy NOT paying a debt she literally signed documents PROMISING she would pay back. How evil of Christine to want the money back that the gypsy already promised she would return!


^^This. Ganush was wayyyy too prideful for that, she could've easily moved in with her niece. I don't think Christine deserved eternal damnation because of this.

christine not being a bad person made the movie IMO.

she was under pressure from everywhere and ended up saying no to the wrong person and paid with her soul.

her boyfriends parents didnt like her, she had to battle an obnoxious co worker for a promotion at work (seemed like she was in 2nd place til the end of the movie), and it seemed like she had offscreen family problems, she probably also felt inferior to her boyfriend who was from a rich upbringing.

the raimi brothers wanted to make a tale of morality more than a horror movie and they succeeded.


^^This.

"I am the ultimate badass, you do not wanna `*beep*` wit me!"- Hudson in Aliens.

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Wait some people do think she deserved to go to hell?

Break the rules and in a couple of years you will have a hell of a story to tell.

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