nobody upset about the ending? - SPOILERS! - Two Lovers (2009) Discussion

[–] irishaspaddyspig 16 years ago

He took his own advice to Michelle; "decide to be happy".

He went to the beach to kill himself. But, he didn't want to die. When he saw the glove that Sandra gave him, he thought about her. He chose her at that moment. He didn't settle. He made an active decision for happiness, that he knew Sandra could provide.

I think the look he gives when he hugs Sandra reflects a mixture of emotions. Regret that it didn't work with Michelle. Resignation that his manic dreams of a totally different life were gone. He would have a good life with Sandra, just not exciting, like it was with Michelle. He knew she was the right choice.

I don't have a problem with him giving the ring he bought for another woman to Sandra. It was the best he could afford, so a different ring was unlikely. He never gave it to Michelle.

My only wish is that the film would have ended with the camera on his face.

"a malcontent who knows how to spell"

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[–] leabaudille 16 years ago

I agree with your remarks here and did not feel disappointed, but pleasantly surprised that he would choose Sandra after the Michelle disappointment. It was like he saw that it would be good for him, his family and for Sandra and if he wasn't passionately in love with her now, one can only assume that he did love her in some way. It wasn't like he had no feelings for her, but the "excitment" and drama of Michelle was overpowering those feelings. Now with Michelle out of the picture (presumably, although in that scenario, she can be once again calling and texting him (Leonard) for support through yet another (almost inevitable) break-up with Ron, he can choose a "sure thing" where he will live a good life, not necessarily an "exciting" one.

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[–] idgeet 16 years ago

i agree too.. i was on the edge of my seat waiting for him to kill himself. i knew it was coming. and when he decided to live.. he surprised me. pleasantly.

all your comments are right on. he loved sandra... and the drama of michelle overpowered the feelings.

R.I.P. Heath Ledger
(April 4, 1979 - January 22, 2008)

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[–] oldacademypictures 16 years ago

I liked it because it wasn't typical. usually the guy ends up with the right girl, because it feels right. This guy did the right thing for all the wrong reasons. I dug it.

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[–] JohnClavin 16 years ago

I would not analyze these characters as if they are rational people. All three main characters were addicted to love and behaving in an irrational way. I thought the ending was perfect.
Great movie, very real.

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[–] mrglennbond 16 years ago

I think it would have been better if the ring had remained lost. Apart from that it was a good ending.

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[–] deniseactress 16 years ago

The ending went the safe way of happy ending for what was a tragic character..It should have had him walk straight into that ocean..but American filmmakers have to have a happy ending...
The woman Sandra was too good for him, and for him to sudenly have an 'Ah ha moment'...I lost one girl whom I had just told the day before I would do anything for and then suddenly realize that the one who really loved him was at home on his parents' sofa was out of context of what was a depressing tale.

also the idea that he actually gave her an engagement ring meant for another was totally unsympathetic character. LOL. now ladies just think that when you receive a piece of jewelry from your boyfriend ..ask yourself was it really meant for you?

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[–] irishaspaddyspig 16 years ago

The ending was meant to be ambiguous. It was less "aha" than a simple realization that Sandra meant stability and happiness in the long run. He had already tried the suicide route. It was obvious from the start of the film that he wanted to live. We're left wondering if he will be truly happy.

As for the ring. He spent everything he could afford on it. It was meant for the woman he'd marry. It turned out to be Sandra. She's so damn understanding that, had she known, she would have dealt with it. She knew he was troubled. She really wanted to be married. She'd have reconciled herself to it. However, one would expect him to never say a word about it. He told her, "I got something for you". That's where it ended. He's unstable, not stupid.

"a malcontent who knows how to spell"

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[–] skisox24 16 years ago

What is wrong with all of you? I hated the ending. Why? Leonard certainly made a sound decision to forego another attempt at suicide and to take a shot with a relationship with Sandra. After all, Sandra was clearly the most grounded character in the entire cast.

However, the underlying source of Leonard's depression was being a captive to the environment that he was locked in to. A relationship with Sandra would have sentenced Leonard to a career with the dry cleaning business and stuck in the Brighton Beach neighborhood forever. Can Sandra overcome that prospect? I doubt it. And the film ended too soon to allow that to play out.

I also felt that the acting in this film was excellent, except that Phoenix was unconvincing with his relationship with his parents. A worthwhile film, for sure, but it could have been much more effective with another 15 minutes of development.

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[–] irishaspaddyspig 16 years ago

The underlying source of his depression was the loss of the woman he loved because they were genetically unsuited for children together. She disappeared and he couldn't find her. He needed stability and predictability in his life.

"a malcontent who knows how to spell"

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[–] Kariann1 15 years ago

Are we to assume Leonard had Bi-Polar disease before the engagement was called off or that the break-up caused the Bi-Polar disease? Sandra knew about his illness and still decided she wanted a future with him. My only concern was that she might also be a carrier of the Tay-Sachs Disease, as she was Jewish also. Not sure if this was addressed.

This ending did help his family and also got him out of their home. I believe he could have a happy marriage with some counseling. I wasn't disappointed, just surprised. A marriage with Michelle would not work.

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[–] amy-148 16 years ago

I disagree. For me the ending worked...Leonard decides to finally grow up. Instead of killing himself, he decides to live life, a practical, satisfying life, not one filled with impossible dreams of things he can't have, like Michelle, but a more stable one, a stability he desparately needs in his life.

And frankly, if ending up with the stunning Vinessa Shaw is the "consolation" prize...sign me up.

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[–] rockwater1234 16 years ago

Agree. I saw this film as a classic 'marry the one you choose or the one chosen for you' story. It went the way it goes for a lot of people I think. Many of us convince ourselves we are in love when we are really choosing comfort and security.

Very good, very real characters.

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[–] jacowium 14 years ago

Very good observation that, rockwater, I totally agree.

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[–] wiwfdownriver 15 years ago

I thought that the title two lovers didn't refer to the Gwenneth and the shop's daughter - as I had originally thought but it refered to his fiance and Gwenneth because thoes were the two that he loved and it took him alot of courage to not try to kill himself again when Gwenneth decides not to go with him and that it was sad that he settled for the shop owner's daughter but considering his past and his bi-polar, that was probably good for him but still sad.
Anyone else see it this way?

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] sosiopat 16 years ago

Are you effing kidding me?! Happy ending?! It depressed me as hell, and it was supposed to! It was a compromise marriage, and it was NOT a happy ending. I do think he will be slightly more stable in the marriage, but he won't be happy.

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[–] blacknyellowsquid 15 years ago

Yup, I agree. I was hoping he wouldn't go to Sandra. He never seemed to be totally feelin' it from the start, it's just what his parents wanted. Sure she was nice but, I never noticed a connection on his end. She liked him, but not as much the other way around. I even felt that first night he had sex with her, in a way he was just trying to get his mind off Michelle after feeling jilted seeing her with her beau. So at the end, to me, it was him throwing in the towel.

What would have been more of a 'happy' ending for me, would be. Okay yes, Michelle rejected him. Drowning himself would have been lame. But maybe if it somehow allowed him to realize he could take charge of his own life. He was rejected, but he'll live. And he can chose his own life....meaning, he doesn't have to go back and be trapped with all the parent-pressure and forced awkwardness of that relationship they were trying to set up. I was hoping he'd hop on the plane to San Fransisco, by himself, and find a new life there or some such thing.

But alas, nope. Went back home to safety to something his heart wasn't in because he didn't know what else to do. Like someone here said, he decided to let her take care of him. He knows she cared about him, so he just threw in the towel and went for it.

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[–] ben-152 16 years ago

I agree with the first two posters. I think though that him giving the ring to Sandra kind of annoyed me because he mistreated her throughout the film, pining for Michelle and giving her all of his love. So when she leaves him, which was inevitable, he recycles a token of infidelity and decides to give it to the girl he was already going out with. Free from baggage and from her learning of the affair. And I agree, once they showed Leonard's face staring right at the camera, I thought it would have been a redeemable final shot. The breaking the forth wall final shot I find very effective, it gives films like 4 Months 3 Weeks and 2 Days a very powerful ending and leaves the viewer with a haunting final note.
All in all, I thoroughly enjoyed Two Lovers. Ending aside, I was totally captivated by it and blown away by the film. It's powerful film making full of raw emotions.

"If Being Drunk were a Cookie, I'd be Famous Amos."
-Looking for Alaska.

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[–] Sonfollower 15 years ago

VERY WELL PUT!!

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] Ambrosia-I 13 years ago

I must say I've found this a really interesting thread. It's great to see people debating and disagreeing with each other politely. I've enjoyed reading everyone's take on the ending.

My own feeling is that it was as happy an ending as anyone ever gets in real life. Maybe there'll always be regret about what might have been, but I agree with many on here that Michelle would have been a terrible choice for Leonard and it would never have worked. My sense of optimism hopes that Leonard and Sandra would ending up being contented with each other. I listened to Gray's commentary over their love scene together and he said that he shot that scene to show that their future life together would not be without passion and love.

The thing I liked about this ending is that everyone sees it differently - no-one's right or wrong.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] ricorosen 16 years ago

How could the idea that stability means happiness got so many devotees?

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[–] irishaspaddyspig 16 years ago

Stability is what is needed, in his case, so that he can make a decision that may bring him happiness. If he's unstable, the chances of him making a sound choice is unlikely. That's not "equating" the two. One follows the other, in most cases.

"a malcontent who knows how to spell"

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[–] ofumalow 16 years ago

He's bipolar. His decisions and judgments (i.e. getting involved with Paltrow's character after she reveals she's completely stuck on a married man) aren't the soundest. Maybe his going off with Shaw's character is the right choice, but he's making it impulsively--will it stick? Does she really "understand" him as much as she thinks? (Certainly no more than Phoenix really "understands" screwed-up Paltrow, despite saying he does. These people are projecting what they want to see onto each other.) Even the audience isn't privy to the full extent and history of his disability.

So I saw it as a "sorta" happy ending--I mean, given his instability, do we really think it's a lock that they'll live happily ever after? Even if it lasts, it's going to be a difficult marriage. And adult relationships (as opposed to parent-child ones) based on a caretaker/care-receiver dynamic are always lopsided and problematic.

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[–] rockwater1234 16 years ago

"So I saw it as a "sorta" happy ending--I mean, given his instability, do we really think it's a lock that they'll live happily ever after? Even if it lasts, it's going to be a difficult marriage. And adult relationships (as opposed to parent-child ones) based on a caretaker/care-receiver dynamic are always lopsided and problematic."

I agree. It was as happy as it could have been at the time. It also seems to me, obvious that both final relationships, as they are built on these dysfunctional dynamics, would be bound to fail, and they would find each other again.

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[–] petramol31 16 years ago

very good point!!

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[–] Felonious-Punk 16 years ago

I take it that he died...at least spiritually. He faced death 3 times, that we know of. Slashing his wrists, jumping off the pier, and walking into the ocean.

When he picks it up off the beach, I believe that he is washed clean, starting again. The old Leonard had thrown the ring as far as he could, and the new Leonard found it on the sand.

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[–] sosiopat 16 years ago

Artists generally don't use symbolism in a schematic way like that. At least not at this point in art history. This plot and these characters are pretty organic. They don't stand for anything else but themselves. And I blame school for forcing that superficial form of interpretation on us.

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[–] ames0826 16 years ago

I think it would be wrong to see this as a simple "happy ending". Leonard is deliberately going into a loveless marriage, Sandra is unknowingly walking into one, and Michelle -- well, I think she just wanted to get rid of Leonard (maybe for his own good) and told him the one thing that would drive him off.

I can just see Leonard and Sandra standing in front of the rabbi when his cell phone suddenly starts playing "Für Elise".

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[–] DuckMan51392 16 years ago

I liked the ending because it's not some unrealistic piece of crap like the love storylines in Titanic or Notebook.For the one post how is this a happy ending??????

I think he care's about Sandra but he doesn't really love her.He was just sick of being lonely so he pretty much took her as a back up.

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[–] Felonious-Punk 16 years ago

My view seems to have grown since watching the movie.
As soon as Leonard gave Sandra the ring, I felt such a loss. Like love doesn't mean anything and it's always disproportionately balanced...
but I think I was feeling too close to Leonard at that time. The movie did a great job in that regard.
But now I see it, that the young people in the movie were all running in a circle loving someone that didn't love them. Sandra offering her heart to Leonard, who was largely dismissive in return. Leonard offering his heart to Michelle, who was trying to give it to a married man.
What a hopeless premise! But when Michelle leaves Leonard, and he has nowhere to offer his love,
and he is considering death, he sees the glove that Sandra brought him.
And to me, that means he focuses on the love that is in front of him. He leaves off focusing on the one that was always running away, just like his previous fiance was.
His old view of love dies, and that is sad. But the hope is that his new view of love will be fostered and will grow strong.
He's had good times with Sandra already, as we see in the black&white photograph montage, the lovemaking seemed hotter and more intense with her than with the quickie Michelle. and she straight up told him she wanted to take care of him. The only thing he had to do is to open his heart up to her, and I like to think that his eyes are open now. In fact, now that I think of it, he has never been dishonest with her. He even told her that he had "a lot going on". He has been afraid to give her his heart, just because she was exactly the right girl, and because he is honest. He says what he means. And when he gives her the ring, I am confident that he is giving her his heart as well, beat up and sandy as it is.

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[–] dmasursky 16 years ago

I didn't like the ending, but I thought it fit with the movie. It really bothered me that Leonard was going to leave with Michelle without so much as a phone call to his "girlfriend" who is a woman he clearly doesn't really know and who obviously doesn't really know him. At the end he goes back to her and she's thrilled to get a ring from him. Ick. She has no idea that he was about to dump her for another woman, that he already cheated on her with this woman, that he's only with her, has only been with her all along, because he can't have the woman he really wants. Did Leonard "choose happiness"? I think that's a very generous interpretation. He only went with Sandra the first time, and the second time, when he couldn't have Michelle. I can accept the argument that he chose Sandra over suicide, but she's just his fall back, like she was all along. Is he really going to connect with her and be "happy" with her now? Seems very unlikely.

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[–] zedsgrl 16 years ago

I think Michelle was the person that he really didn't know - based on what we didn't see but was alluded to, he had spent a lot more time with Sandra. It wasn't at all clear IMO why he loved Michelle - except for the fact that she was blonde and he couldn't have her - typical male thing.

Does anybody really thing that he would have been happy with Michelle? No way! She is as screwed up as him - she is too self-involved to give him anything. She needs to be rescued too.

I thought it was a bit too brief, but I thought the ending when he picked up the glove in the water, that he has finally come to the realization that Sandra truly loved him and would be able to give him what he needs to make him happy. She truly cared for him and his well being. All that Michelle cared about was herself.

Now if you assume he did not love Sandra but did love Michelle (even though I have no idea why he would) he chose being loved over giving love.

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[–] sosiopat 16 years ago

It wasn't at all clear IMO why he loved Michelle - except for the fact that she was blonde and he couldn't have her - typical male thing.

She was full of life, and she gave him a lot of mixed messages, not exactly "playing hard to get," but going after someone who didn't want her while keeping Leonard on his toes, hoping, thinking "maybe" - typical female thing.

... he has finally come to the realization that Sandra truly loved him and would be able to give him what he needs to make him happy. She truly cared for him and his well being. All that Michelle cared about was herself.

Michelle cared only about herself, you say, not realizing that you just two sentences before said that he proposed to Sandra because she could GIVE HIM what HE needs? At that moment, he was thinking more about himself and his loneliness than ever before. But sure, Michelle is the selfish one! They are all selfish! Michelle kept Leonard as backup, Leonard kept Sandra as backup, and Sandra manipulated Leonard to feel attached to her by pitying him.

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[–] syldt1 15 years ago

No happy ending. Like another post says, Sandra was his back up, he never showed much love for her and she must have been aware of that...

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[–] petramol31 16 years ago

I agree with that set up. I did not like the ending as much but at one point, I thought he was going to end his life before he saw the gloves in the water. I prefer the ending it had than the one with ending his life but I agree he should not have given the ring to her. Poor Sandra!

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[–] weaveofkev 16 years ago

It's very realistic in the way people will settle for the 2nd choice.

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[–] petramol31 16 years ago

My friend and I are going to see this movie again this weekend!

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[–] mypcforums2 16 years ago

As the song goes. . . If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with.

This was Leonard's last chance for happiness and he knew it. Sandra loved him and he knew it. He had feelings for her and he knew it. Who's to say that he won't fall in love with her in the future?

On the other hand, Michelle would have always let Leonard down and would have brought him down, maybe to the point where he would have eventually committed suicide. She was emotionally messed up, had a drug problem, and she didn't love Michael. In fact, the type of relationship that Leonard has with Sandra is the opposite of the type of relationship that he has with Michelle. While he loves Michelle but Michelle loves someone else, Sandra loves Leonard while Leonard loves someone else.

I think the ending was a good one in that I see a chance for real happiness for Leonard that he never would have had with Michelle. She would have eventually left him.

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