MovieChat Forums > The Bad Lieutenant: Port of Call - New Orleans (2009) Discussion > The skinny... -especially for all the co...

The skinny... -especially for all the confused people.

posted 15 years ago by web-accs
45 replies | jump to latest

The skinny.....

THIS FILM IS NOT CONNECTED TO 'Abel Ferrara's Bad Lieuteant' IN ANY WAY.
-Let the alarm bells ring as you should avoid responding to any oblivious imbecile who has failed to figure this well publicized fact.

It is an intentionally, insane, wild and over the top performance by Nicolas Cage.

There are no hidden meanings, messages, symbolism, metaphors or references.
It is there for you to interpret for yourself as you see it.

I saw this film on my own in a full house at a festival premiere, sitting in the front row beside a girl who was also on her own. While frequently laughing out loud along with at least half of the cinema, sometimes more or less, I was often in fits of hysterics..

-The now infamous 'Iguana trip' being the main catalyst and left me still giddy a half a day later.

The girl in question, along with much of the audience didn't laugh too often and I may have appeared to be a little odd to her/them in a 'Why is he still laughing?', 'What's so funny?' and maybe 'Why am I not laughing as much?', or in the case of some of the audience and the readers of this, -'Why do I not find this funny at all and why is he completely red and leaking from almost every orifice???'.

The answer is obvious and simple.
-You, just, don't, get, it!!

So accept it, move on, the moment is gone.

It's for the same reason that I personally just don't get films like 'Paul Blart:Mall Cop', 'Couples Retreat' or 'Wedding, Love, He's Something-Something etc. trash romance with Mathew McConningyoufoolsintheworstpossiblewayeveryday'
-None of which I've had to suffer by the way.

If you've never heard of, or can't appreciate Werner Herzog and/or Nic. Cage that might count for something in your defense but other than that it's a question of taste. Some have it and many of you do not apparently..

Another way to explain it is this..
In my mind, your slight mental deficiency has robbed you of a great moment where Herzog, a true 'Soldier' of cinema, has danced the fine line between Independant art and mainstream commercial success and directed the great Nic. Cage in a completely original, hilariously wild and darkly twisted film about a 'BAD LIEUTENANT' in 'NEW ORLEANS'.

(The clue was in the title..??)

[–] RetainersAreHot 15 years ago

So the title and the lieutenants tendencies are irrelevant?

[–] jblacktree 15 years ago

I wish I could believe that Herzog had a faint glimmer of a clue that he was making a comedy; I think he is being deadly serious and THAT is what made me laugh so hard I had to choke back tears. Cage knows what he's doing and just chews scenery and apes Olivier in Richard Third. Kilmer doesn't try. Mendes tries and I feel sorry for her. The scene where Cage abuses the two older women and cuts off the oxygen was straight off MAD TV or SNL. Hilarious. I think Werner thought it was a powerful scene and a wild assault on our sense of decency. The most unwittingly funny movie since Dogville.

[–] FreddieMiles 15 years ago

Herzog was definitely aware that he was making a comedy. He's one of the smartest people in the film world and to say that aspect of the film went over his head is ridiculous. Watch the "Making of" this movie or commentary on any of his other movies, he always talks about the humor he intentionally uses. Saying he was unaware of the humor in this movie is like saying he was unaware of the humor in Aguirre when the black man assumes darts are spears thrown by dwarves.

The scene where Cage threatens the old women is indeed hilarious, but it's also a very powerful scene for Cage's character. At that point he is unquestionably off the deep end. He's no longer a cop trying to achieve his goal by going out of bounds, he is instead a lunatic who blames two old ladies for being the reason the country is going down the drain (when in reality it's probably people like him). It's possible for there to be situational humor embedded in a serious scene. Herzog has a very dark sense of humor and he certainly thought he was being deadly serious at the same time. This is what makes him Herzog.

[–] web-accs 14 years ago

Well said...

[–] web-accs 14 years ago

I thinks he may have put some elements together not fully knowing the final result or how funny they would be, in a mad scientific experiment sort of way, but he definately had a handle on the main outcome...

Together with post, editing and test screenings etc...

It was intentionally an out-of-control, ridiculous and farcical romp throughout.

[–] LouCanova 14 years ago

Comments like jblacktree's are quite worrying. Some people just don't get films.

[–] marcjacobspants 14 years ago

I think the missing "key" to understanding is that the director, Werner Herzog, basically let the actors riff through their roles.

Nick Cage is way over the top in a lot of scenes (or so it seems) but we all know that movies are made (usually) with many takes. Every scene is shot time and time again. Herzog basically let Cage run, and then cut the film together with some of the most over the top performances of each scene (or so it seems).

It seems to me Herzog wanted to put together a semi-guerilla film here. Yes they had a script, but no Herzog did not "direct" so much as simply told Cage to have at it, to make the character and take the character. I wish Val Kilmer's character had more time on screen -- I'm not sure if he ended up on the cutting room floor or if the role was very small.

I did enjoy this film a lot.

[–] deadbunny28 13 years ago

like dogville, there were many scenes that were intentionally funny and some that were intentionally serious and some both...to try to lump a whole movie of herzog or lars von trier into one schtick means you actually do fall in the OP's declared group of "just-dont-get-its"

[–] lulumary123 12 years ago

Just rewatched - it seems to me Herzog has made a parody/ironic version of the original in a way, where the worse the character behaves the more sunny the outcome in the end. Herzog is a wicked wit, an absurdist, and a great storyteller. The message of "Bad Lieutenant, P.O.C.N.O": drugs can be fun and movies are fantasies - no matter how dire the story when you start you can always have a happy ending. Because its a movie.

"A sword is useless in the hands of a coward" - Nichiren Daishonin

[–] web-accs 14 years ago

Obviously they are both bad lieutenants if you want to look at it in a pedantic way.

..Lying on your back all does not make you a missionary...

[–] web-accs 14 years ago

Obviously they are both bad lieutenants if you want to look at it in a pedantic way.

..Lying on your back all day does not make you a missionary...

[–] gack187 15 years ago

I heard they just tacked on the whole bad leuitenant thing.

[–] FreddieMiles 15 years ago

During the shoot (in particular the funeral scene), Herzog is talking to the actors and introduces the name "Bad Lieutenant: Port of Call New Orleans." After a short pause he sadly says, "the name will probably be changed, though." I think he was referring to the Port of Call New Orleans, because that's something that would totally get removed by a distributor but was something he loved. Anyways, point is, the title Bad Lieutenant was attached from the beginning of shooting.

[–] subase 15 years ago

I think what happened was that Herzog read a review or a synopsis of the movie Bad Lieutenant and thought it would make a great story for a comedy.

So really the movie is only roughly based on the original films story and not the film, which Herzog says he's never actually seen. (Or even the title 'Bad Lieutenant -Port of Call New Orleans is sufficient to make a similar movie)

I think after people got all annoyed with it's subject matter and were comparing it to the old Bad Lieutenant. Herzog thought it would be easier to just deny outright that a connection even existed and that the title of the film was chosen by the studio.

I actually think it's a great title and that's why Herzog chose it. The bad thing is that it resulted in unfair comparisons to the original, which Herzog was unwilling to explain himself out of.

[–] web-accs 14 years ago

Oh dear, I think you're over thinking this one...

Like I said in the original post, unless you can point to clear proof of Herzog admitting something else new...

THE TWO FILMS ARE NOT CONNECTED AT ALL!!!!.

Speculate and elaborate on it as much as you want....

Go on, I know you want to...

[–] web-accs 14 years ago

..As far as I know the producers/Herzog discussed using 'Port of call:' as a way of opening the door for a possible franchise. e.g. Port of Call:New York etc. etc. for a sequel...

I'm not sure how true this is or if it was just a clever/wry joke by Herzog said afterwards at the screening with Nic. Cage.

If true, one of the very few potential sequels I would like to see...

[–] cm_po17 15 years ago

web-accs i completely agree with you. Though I do not think this was an out right comedy. I was not laughing because I thought the movie was taking itself too seriously, I think that was the general intent. I have to admit I am not a fan of Nicolas Cage, but this movie made me give him way more respect.

[–] web-accs 14 years ago

Ok, in a sense, nothing is outrightly one-dimensional.

If anything, this film couldn't take itself seriously if it was in court for 99 counts of rape and murder, heading to death row.

IGUANA SCENE ANYONE?..
The neatly packaged ending??
etc.?
etc.?
etc.?

C'mon now, maybe you did'nt laugh because it just didn't click with your previous experience or sense of humour?

& if so, that's cool...

[–] eliafrancescon 15 years ago

This movie is a comedy, but a comedy with a very clear message in it: Life is hell, and the bad guys win in hell. Which is, by the way, the reason why it take place in New Orleans right after katrina. If you didn't understand this, watch it again, maybe you'll start laughing for a reason.

[–] web-accs 14 years ago

Yeah I agree, a lot of the comedy is amplified hugely by the fact that the seeds of the ideas are very much deeply rooted in reality.

It's true that New Orleans was intentionally chosen as a sort of additional character in the film.

[–] g-moff 14 years ago

This movie is similar to "Amores Perros" or even "Pulp Fiction" imho. It has cynical scenes right from the start (when the cops are betting about the inmates' expected time of death), but also very much dark humour in it. The shots are great, lots of pastel light. Louisiana seems to be a city where all hope is gone and so are the people, they simply try to survive by dancing on the edge - everyone, cops, dealers, prostitutes, there doesn't seem to be a non-addicted person in the whole town except one street cop. Nicolas Cage is brilliant in this film, especially in the scene where he is smoking his "lucky crackpipe" - hilarious.
The reptiles seem to represent the cruel wilderness which still is so very closely behind all of us and especially in NO. Good one and really a kind of movie which I'd never expected from Herzog.
PS I haven't seen the other "BL" yet, that might've given me a non-prejudiced advantage here..

A man builds. A parasite asks "Where is my share?" - Andrew Ryan

[–] web-accs 14 years ago

Well said, particularly the point about the wilderness.

Just watched 'burden of dreams' again and his philosphy of nature and how he loves it despite it 'always trying to kill' him.

Abel Ferrara's film is about a truly lost soul(If you like), self aware, and the big question that will he ever stop and look to be redeemed??? -No spoiler I hope.

Anyway, not much of a comedy unless maybe you're in a very strange place.

Stranger than fiction.
or Belgium maybe.

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] ToonRaider 14 years ago

Why is Herzog getting the credit for scenes written by Finklestein? People are saying things like;

I thinks he may have put some elements together not fully knowing the final result or how funny they would be, in a mad scientific experiment sort of way, but he definately had a handle on the main outcome...

This was not a Herzog improvisation, he only directed this; those scenes weren't set up by him. The dialogue was not his, the scene was not his creation. The writer created the humour, if you found any.

I think Werner thought it was a powerful scene and a wild assault on our sense of decency. The most unwittingly funny movie since Dogville.

This comment represents my view of the movie and asks the question: If a large proportion of the audience doesn't know whether the movie is a comedy or not then haven't you failed? Or have you presented a work of art open to interpretaion, enjoyable on multiple levels? I don't know. All I do know is Bad Lieutenant: PoCNO wasn't for me.

"I am not young enough to know everything"

[–] Alec_Eiffel 14 years ago

This was not a Herzog improvisation, he only directed this; those scenes weren't set up by him. The dialogue was not his, the scene was not his creation. The writer created the humour, if you found any.

This isn't true. The writer wrote it, but the director is in control of how it's presented. There is nothing inherently funny about the things that happen in the script, and in the hands of a different director and cast this exact same script would likely have been played completely straight and deadly serious. The humor comes from the absurd tone Herzog set and, mostly, Cage's performance.

[–] web-accs 14 years ago

Well said...

+Do you think it's a little bit obvious that the hallucinatory, wildlife POV scenes are not in the script.

I dunno...

[–] web-accs 14 years ago

"I thinks he may have put some elements .......................but he definately had a handle on the main outcome..."

-I was talking about the tone and style, improv with actors on set, ideas etc. Not the screenplay.
He actually improvised the halluciatory wildlife scenes completely.

Isn't Film a visual medium guided and influenced(hopefully) by a director who makes most of the creative decisions on the content?

-At least that's what I keep hearing anyway.

I didn't write the other post I mostly agree though.
It may have been a lot less funny to the filmmakers than it was to me but it was not unintentional.

Art is supposed to deepen the mystery.

The more I know the less I understand.

[–] dyahrmarkt 14 years ago

@web

Herzog is absolutely dedicated to finding "the film within the script" as it were. He does it better than no other out there. So, yes, what he's able to recognize is the *potential* within the script for all kinds of exciting things to happen.

Please nest your IMDB page, so you respond to the correct person.

[–] web-accs 14 years ago

Try reading what I wrote again and again and wait.. yes again(just to be clear) and when you have an actual question, insted of this verbal dihorreea, type it up nice and clear, check it a couple of times and mail it to me somewhere back in time when I might have cared.

Imbecile.

[–] PurpleProseOfCairo 14 years ago

I always feel uncomfortable reading posts from people telling us how they "get" something and we don't, or in this case the poor ignorant girl who couldn't undertstand why our humble narrator was laughing so much. (I very rarely laugh out loud, even if I find something hysterically funny: there's every chance that this girl was enjoying the movie in her own way. Maybe she was thinking "Why does this guy keep looking at me? Is he trying to get my attention with all the maniacal laughing?").

I enjoyed this movie from start to finish and found parts of it hilarious, but didn't feel the need to guffaw at any stage.

[–] web-accs 14 years ago

Eh... Yeah and I always feel uncomfortable reading posts from people...

telling me how they COMPLETELY misunderstood what I had previously written.

-I don't think you manged to 'GET' my original post as it was intended.

- The 'ignorant' girl, by the way, was only noticeable to me because she was practically stone cold compared to most other people. You don't have to stare at someone if they are sitting within an armrest of you to get some sense of perspective. Smell, Touch, Taste, Hearing.. Thought Process?

I was trying to explain the scenario with some detail and creativity to make it funnier and more interesting to read. It's like you had asperger's syndrome the way you analyzed my post.

What's wrong with occasional maniacal laughter?..

Maybe you need to 'Guffaw' a bit more.

I'll tell you what, if you try the maniacal, I'll try the guffawing.

You definately need to laugh out loud at least once.

[–] larrynola 14 years ago

I had read early on(before it was released) that this was not a true remake of the earlier Bad Lieutenant , and you're right.It doesn't seem to be.
I , too was in hysterics over the iguana hallucination scene, mainly because I am a huge Johnny Adams fan , loved having the song stuck in the movie. But , it was just so "out there ". Was one of them actually supposed to be singing the song ? So , I guess it was supposed to mean "Release Me "....from my drug addiction.
I had originally thought of this as one of those "so bad,it's good" films , but when I read your take on it , I have to agree with you. When film is truly used as an art medium , the director often leaves the interpretation up to the viewer. And Nic Cage has done other performances in this vein , most notably as Sailor in Wild at Heart.His whole performance was a bad Elvis impersonation.

[–] web-accs 14 years ago

Not a remake despite talk of 'Bad' and 'Lieutenant' being used in both film titles, the screenwriter said this and that etc. etc.
Abel Ferrara's B.L. should be renamed Nasty, Evil and Depraved Lieutenant and this should be renamed 'The amazing and comical adventures of Junkie cop' just because so many people think it's a bad straight movie...I'm still amazed there is so much confusion...??? but anyway....

Yeah the music was cool especially for the scenes where the audience gets an insight into T.McD's drug induced hallucinations.
I'm not sure about the Johnny Adams question...?

I agree with you (re:art, interpretation viewer).
Too many films follow a similar format, for better or worse but this really goes off the path and way into the jungle. It's definately open to interpretation but at the same time it isn't really anything more than a black comedy and a sort of warped morality tale and Herzog intended it to be mostly what we see on-screen. He's talking us on a road-trip..

If you're going to use Nic Cage in a film you have a choice of Sailor,H.I(raising Arizona), Ben(LasVegas) etc. etc. and also a lot of middle of the road straight roles for the money films he does. It would be crazy not to let him loose in a film intended to be a comedy. Even more crazy to let him loose if it was a drama, not intended to be a comedy, Herzog new what he was doing. Hmmm??... I think that would still work though?...

-You need to see Vampire's Kiss if you liked Nic Cage in this. I thought it was heading fast downhill until it clicked for me near to the end.
Very funny and very clever.

.