The bad guys in this movie all died. How are they still around to go to another universe? Only answer I can think of is the incident that creates the multiverse - whether it be Loki's finale, this movie's spell, or both - happened at the moment of their deaths and they were sucked into this universe.
shareI saw one comment that Doc Ock is wearing the glasses he was wearing early in "Spider-man 2", but that later in SM2 he replaces them with different glasses. The suggestion was that Doc Ock in this movie was taken during the events of the SM2 timeline and not before or after. Maybe Doctor Strange uses the forgetfullness spell on the villains before sending them back to their own realities?
shareSo they all got sucked into the MCU in the middle of events from their movies? Is that what you're saying. I can see that, but didn't Strange say they already died?
shareI don't know enough about Doc Ock's eyewear to make a definitive statement, but that is the suggestion.
Doctor Strange says "They all die fighting Spider-Man. It's their fate!". That implies that they need to go home and die. And most of these villains would have to be plucked from their respective movies if they are the Sony versions, we saw them gain their powers and meet their deaths (except for Sandman and Lizard?).
That statement is odd, at least at this point. The film will almost certainly clarify it, but we see
Dr. Octopus, the Green Goblin, and Electro (I think) died fighting Spider-Man, but the Lizard survived. Or at least, Dr. Connors survived. I suppose one can make the case that the Lizard persona died when Spider-Man cured Connors. This makes me wonder about the creature most are assuming to be the Sandman. He definitely survived his encounter with Spider-Man. Mysterio, on the other hand, did not, and he used a hologram/drone creature similar to the one we see in the trailer. I don't think it's too far-fetched to suggest that he's the fifth villain. It's also worth noting that while Molina, Dafoe, and Foxx have all been confirmed as having roles in the film, Thomas Haden Church has not. I don't see much reason for Marvel to withhold his name yet show Sandman in the trailer, but it would be clever to withhold Jake Gyllenhaal's name and surprise us with the return of Mysterio.
That leads me to wonder who will be the sixth adversary. It seems almost certain that they'll include the famous "Sinister Six" in some form, even though I doubt they will go with that silly moniker. Who does that leave? Venom or the 2nd Green Goblin. Two Goblins seems unlikely-- though we do see two versions of the Green Goblin in the trailer-- and the terrible Venom film that came out recently ends with the reveal that the new version of Venom is now a part of the MCU.
tl;dr Spider-Man will face:
Dr. Octopus
Electro
The Green Goblin
The Lizard
Mysterio or Sandman
Venom or a 2nd Green Goblin
Grace Randolph said there are only 5 villains, and she usually has the inside info somehow.
shareI don't know who she is, but I'll trust her! Five is plenty.
shareshe's a great film reviewer, cinephile and comic nerd. Gives reviews on new films and other topics like box office and rumors/behind the scenes info from her sources. Plus lately she has been getting one on one interviews with major cast members and directors. Check out her youtube channel called "Beyond the Trailer."
shareThey didn't say death caused them to go to another earth. What caused them to come to the MCU was Peter tampering with the spell which opened portals or whatever between universes.
In the trailer, Strange seemed aware that the bad guys eventually die in their universes, so sending them back means sending them to their deaths.
Why/how are they there is what I am asking. They died - how are they able to come to the MCU?
shareWhy would peter tampering with a spell open portals to alternatve universes? I think there are some major plot elements that we are missing. And if it opens portals to other universes, why would it just happen to portal those villains?
shareBecause the plot says so. Because fan-service.
And itโs likely other Spider-Men will show up too, so itโs not just villains.
You have access to the plot that no one else has? We don't know what the plot is, and the trailers can be misleading.
shareItโs called discussion and speculation. If Iโm wrong, then Iโm wrong.
shareThe last 2 Spider-Man films were well written and intelligent, and this one is being made by the same people, so I don't think it will be "peter makes a wish and the multiverse opens and Villains appear". That sounds more like the Venom franchise.
shareI never said thatโs how it would be. Iโm going by the trailers, which show Peter tampering with a spell that was supposed to wipe memories. One of the side-effects of the tampering is villains showing up.
There might be more to it than that, but for now, thatโs what it looks like.
Yes, and why would a spell erasing people's memories make villains from alternate realities appear?
shareYou're oddly fixated on this ๐คจ You need to stop overthinking it.
Maybe it wasn't just a memory spell, but a reality-altering spell focused primarily on altering memories. Who knows? We'll have to watch the movie to find out. Or maybe the movie will gloss over it and you're wasting your time asking me these questions.
Overthinking it? lol.
shareWith time, anything is possible. Multiverse, crossovers, pulling people from certain events in time, etc. Even if one died there are many other iterations of the same character in different states of their own plot across infinite universes. No logic needed for this.
shareI have an idea: letโs watch the movie so we can understand certain plotpoints.
shareYou joined a movie discussion board. Are you aware of that?
shareA movie discussion board is not the same as speculating on a 2 mins trailer board.
shareI think speculating on a 2 min movie trailer is very much related to movie discussion. It's certainly more related then posting on boards about Kyle Rittenhouse but clearly a bunch of people find that acceptable.
It's certainly meaningful to talk about the trailer.
Or maybe we should throw out all these boards before the movie releases. Like all those Matrix Resurrections threads? Toss it out. Who gives a care right? Let's just post about Alec Baldwin's legal troubles instead. Way more germane.
yeah, but you cannot get past speculation and arguing on plot holes and plot devices based on a trailer without actually watching the movie ... first of all, there is NO plot in a trailer, no details.
shareHumans have gone full retard. Theories, speculation, debates - it's all a part of the reason sites like this exist. I've been doing this shit since 02 on IMDB. An announcement or trailer comes out and it draws people to the board. They want to discuss what they just saw.
Now you can't talk about something because it "hAsN'T cOmE oUT YeT"? What the fuck is this nonsense?
It's insane lol. I bitch a lot about the usual drivel we have on these boards but at the end of the day I get it:
-Some ppl don't have anybody or anywhere else to talk about politics, so they come here.
-Some ppl like cheering and speculating box office performance instead of the movies themselves because they like the sense of competition, fine.
-Some ppl don't like diving into films and just want to spout mindless one-liners, okay.
But the fact that we know have some people that are actually SCOLDING others for wanting to discuss movies here on moviechat.org?
Fucking insane. I wonder if it's related to how everyone online are slowly turning into carebears. Like now sometimes I'm on a comment thread. Someone has an opinion. I disagree, so I share mine, and they're like ITS JUST MY OPINION. Instead of discussing dissenting opinions, people would just rather shut them out.
"The movie isn't out yet!" LOL, who responds like that? The point of this place is to discuss, debate, review, and theorize about movies. Do these people not know what this site is?
shareYeah lmao. What an absurd reaction.
shareI've had this conversation before, but something changed about internet conversation conversations the last several years. You can probably say the same as "real life" too, but I'm talking specifically about things that are supposed to be fun.
You used to come to sites like this and be able to have legitimate conversations about a movie or franchise you like. I've "wasted" (actually got a lot of enjoyment out of it) hours immersing myself into the nerdiest of discussions. Now? You come to a board and get yelled at for daring to bring an on-topic issue up. People have fucking lost it.
I think people are afraid of arguing or some shit. It's an easy way out just to tell you that "oh, the movie's not out yet" lol fucking ridiculous.
Can you imagine if you ever followed a series in a realtime, discussing from one episode to the next, and someone just goes "what's the point of theorizing? next week's episode isn't out yet" lmao
"Can you imagine if you ever followed a series in a realtime, discussing from one episode to the next, and someone just goes "what's the point of theorizing? next week's episode isn't out yet" lmao"
I don't know how old of a fella you are, but this is EXACTLY what discussion boards were used for not that long ago. LOST, Battlestar Galactica, The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, and many other boards on IMDB for popular shows were LOADED with conversations theorizing what about what X meant or what was coming next. It was the thing to do. The second an episode ended, you were on IMDB.
For sure, I definitely remember those days. I didn't follow too many shows but yeah, being able to theorize about what would happen next was part of the fun. Not for everyone, I guess.
Lmao, hell when I finally got around to watching True Detective season 3, I was a bit late. And so I went on reddit, and I was reading through the episode-specific discussion threads (time capsuled from back when the ep originally aired) as I watched the episodes to live out the thrill of trying to figure out the show as I was watching XD.
Are there any shows that you're actively watching at the moment? Do people discuss from one week to the next on moviechat? Truth be told, substantive discussion here seems to be a tiny minority. If people won't even analyze and argue about films, why'd they do so with tv shows when they can just wait to binge watch.
Actually, the rise of bingewatching shows might have directly contributed to the lack of imagination here.
You can't discuss trailers? Really, now? Since when? And where do I get a copy of the rule book.
you can, but when you search plot holes in a movie that is not yet out based on the trailer it comes out as ... stupid. At least in my opinion.
Wait to see the movie and then will see how they tie everything.
You view this exchange between you and I as something other than stupid? This is a valuable use of time to you?
share[deleted]
more MCU stupidity
shareWOW...THE STUPIDITY OF YOU AND MANY OTHERS ON THIS THREAD IS ASTOUNDING...IT'S AMAZINING HOW SUCH A SIMPLE THING CAN SO CONFUSE SUCH A SIMPLE PERSON...EXPLAINS A LOT ABOUT A LOT OF THE POSTS ON THE SITE.
shareOk, so this isn't addressed at all. Some of the logic being thrown around in this thread was they were plucked from their world right before their death and sent back to their world at that same moment and died.
That doesn't appear to be the case. The other Peters aged. It's acknowledged they aged. They both mention some of their villains dying. Hell, some of the villains acknowledged other villains died. What I mean is, time progressed. It moved forward. History was made. Tobey Peter very strongly implies he and MJ are married. Ock says Peter grew up, both of which are a reinforcement of this.
That being said, I chalk it up to Strange's spell messing with time. He pulled everyone who knew Peter was Spiderman. Tobey and Garfield are living in the present, but the dead guys came form a time when they were still alive; and if sent back I would guess they are sent to present day.