MovieChat Forums > The Matrix Resurrections (2021) Discussion > How can Neo create games based on memori...

How can Neo create games based on memories he never had?


For example: in "The Matrix Reloaded", Trinity and Morpheus try to make an escape with the Keymaker where they fight the twin ghosts in the garage. Neo is elsewhere. This then leads to the highway chase scene where Neo only comes in at the end to help Morpheus and the Keymaker fly away. Getting the Keymaker was a huge plot point in the second film, so if Neo was making a trilogy of videogames based on his memories (in other words, the entirety of the first three films), how could he have known how the scene panned out if he wasn't the one who ran off with the Keymaker?

To me, this is a huge plot hole. He's making games based on our memories of watching the films, not on memories he experienced. This isn't the only example where Neo doesn't appear in a scene. There are other scenes in the trilogy that Neo isn't in that would have to be included in his game.

Hopefully what I wrote makes sense to you.

reply

Because this movie sucks and makes no sense. The Wachowski Transgenders have lost the plot, literally.

reply

I know it does, but I thought I missed something.

reply

Neo isn't really making a game, for starters.

And why would you write a story where the protagonist is in every scene? No one would do that.

reply

Didn't he make a trilogy of games though? He made those games with what memories he had of being Neo. The storyline for the games is ultimately what us as the viewer know as the movie trilogy.

reply

Neo re-enacted the "storyline" the machines gave him. They kept him doped up and gave him fake memories.

reply

Were they fake memories though? In his office we can see figurines on a shelf of things that actually happened in the film's. But he was also able to remember things himself.

reply

Fake, to him. Was he there when Trinity and Morpheus fought the agents and exiles on the highway? No. You pointed out they weren't. Those memories were downloaded so that he could "make" the "games", which was his story/narrative.

reply

How could the memories be downloaded if the people who did it weren't there either and wasn't created by them when they initially happened? How would they even know Neo did eventually show up to save the day?

reply

The Matrix is one big simulation. You don't think they can record that?

reply

If that was the case, they could have just shown all kinds of footage to Neo in part 1 to prove he was The One.

reply

Why would the machines want to do that?

reply

No, I mean In the first film, Morpheus could have shown footage of anything from the Matrix to Neo to convince him.

reply

How can Morpheus show Neo footage from the first movie during the first movie? the events hadn't happened yet.

reply

The Matrix already existed before the first film. Show Neo that stuff.

reply

I have to admit, I have no idea what you're going on about either.

Show Neo what?

That he was the one? Morpheus didn't know. Only Oracle knew. Trinity kinda knew through deduction.

That he was in the Matrix? Morpheus did show proof of the matrix, AFTER he took the red pill.

reply

Neo didn't fully believe the Matrix until the end of part 1. In the sequels he was made more aware of his power. If in part 4 they claim that they can implant memories that he didn't even experience, why not just do that to Neo from the get-go in part 1?

Sorry for any spelling or grammar errors. Whenever there is a huge indentation on this site from so many replies, it's harder to type.

reply

Neo already believed that the Matrix existed early on in the movie, a little bit after he vomited, which happened shortly after Morpheus explained to him what the real world was. At the end of part 1, Neo realized he was The One.

reply

I guess I just don't like the concept of being able to implant memories. It takes away from the whole premise of two worlds: one real, one not.

reply

That's a fair viewpoint. That's a whole different topic:

How is it possible for the machines to implant memories? And if they can, then what's real and what's not?

If Wick Neo was given information about the previous Matrix subconsciously, are those considered real memories? Can you call them "real" memories, because they were "memories" of objective events that happened in a fictional world?

Perhaps this it's these types of questions you were getting to?

reply

Yes. Also, maybe I'm stupid for thinking this, but I'm thinking about the visuals of them doing it. Like is someone sitting at a computer inserting memories stored on a hard drive?

reply

Well no. I mean, how was the matrix created? It's not like a robot sat down at a computer terminal, at least, we have no reason to think that this is the case. How did the Analyst write code for the Matrix? He's not a real person; he's just a program. And if he can write the world in which they live, certainly he can add additional memories in the consciousness that he's enslaved.

Just an idea. I don't actually think that the machines inserted these memories into Neo's head. I actually learn towards to what Asom said earlier to you. I think the machines added these ideas and it would further make it difficult for Neo to be redpilled this time around.

reply

Show Neo WHAT stuff? The events of the first movie hadn't happened yet. Morpheus can't "just show him" footage of something that didn't happen yet. How do you not know this? You aren't make sense AT. ALL.

reply

In The Matrix Reloaded. Neo dreamed of the future when Trinity got shot. Then it actually happened. It's possible in this world for it to happen.

But if memories can be implanted, why doesn't Morpheus just implement memories of what happens when someone takes the blue pill or the red pill? Why not show him memories of how Morpheus came to be?

reply

How in God's name would Morpheus, in the first movie, show Neo something that he (Neo) dreamed that hadn't happened yet? You cannot be serious with this shit. Plea

reply

But you're okay with Neo dreaming something that hadn't happened yet and then when it happened it was detail to detail?

reply

No. His matrix role placed him as a designed who made those games. theres no evidence that he actually did anything or that they even exist.

reply

He is NOT making the games based on his memories - he doesn't even know he "has" those memories anyway. He is making the games, like any other game developer, based on ideas. I hope you don't believe that the AvP games (or any games for that matter) are based on the memories of the developers ...
Ideas that could be fed by the Machines.

reply

I hope you don't believe that the AvP games (or any games for that matter) are based on the memories of the developers ...


Why would I think that? We're talking about a movie, not real life. There are literal action figures which we see in the Matrix films, which are part of his games.

Also, what you're saying is different than the person above who says the memories were downloaded.

reply

Those where not memories that he was aware he had, so it's safer to say ideas implanted based on his memories.

And it doesn't matter if he experienced those or not, the machines obviously can implant memories and ideas.

reply

They could have just implanted ideas that would be beneficial to them. Instead he used it to make games. Neo really dropped the ball there.

reply

Not Neo, the writers.

But, maybe that's the machines way of confusing Neo, who could recollect his memories and realize he is in the Matrix, having him working n the game would make it harder for him to realize that he IS IN THE Matrix ...

reply

I am actually very annoyed that they chose to go that route. The weird thing is that the Machines could have just let Trinity & Neo die in the real world, after Neo made the deal for peace with the Deus Ex Machina in Revolutions, instead the Analyst takes over, revives him and Trinity, and put them in the apparent 7th version of the Matrix, just to fool them, thinking the One anomaly won't regain their memories and resurface and cause trouble all over again? Sheesh...

reply

I'm convinced Lana Wachowski was writing stuff as he was going along without having any real plan beforehand.

reply

Wasn't it explained that their energy was necessary? The analyst kept them alive, and near one another but not not touching, because of how much energy that provided to the machines.

reply

Necessary to the Analyst's conceptualization of the Matrix. So in that sense, yes, necessary. But it was the Analyst's choice to go with that design, and it ended up outperforming all previous iterations of the Matrix so they stuck with it.

reply

And that opens another question: HOW and WHY do they provide more energy (in the real world) than other humans???

Of course, that is on top of "how the fuck are humans a powerful and efficient source of energy???"

Specially since they just sit in those capsules doing basically nothing ...

Without even going into other questions like: how can a human with atrophic muscles even move when released from those capsules???

reply

I don't think they necessarily provided more energy than other humans. The new matrix was designed off of their connection, and the benefit of the new model is that all humans were generating more energy than before: the whole treadmill thing that the analyst was talking about.

reply

That's what they stated in the movie, they had tremendous output of energy. And that's why they needed them alive.

reply

hmm damn. I'll have to go back and check that.

reply

Since we never really see what is or isn't in the game, it's unclear how closely they adhere to the films. It's likely that the overall theme is the same, and certain moments that he experienced are included in a very similar way, but others are different. Also, it's not impossible that he later spoke with the others about what they did, and so he knows some details about moments that he was not present to witness live.

reply

This is where I feel it's a cop out. We never really see how far the game went in terms of the trilogy. We just saw mostly quick flashes. If we see quick flashes, the story would have to correspond with the trilogy of films. For example: there is a figurine on Neo's shelf in his office of Trinity falling out of the building from The Matrix Reloaded. The game would have to follow the same story as the movie for it to make sense.

reply

That isn't true at all. He knew about that, because he dreamed it. He could very easily have created a story that built to that point with different details along the way. It feels very obvious to me that that is what happened. Neo has dreams and flashbacks that he has incorporated into a game that is loosely based on what we know as the Matrix films. It's never stated, or even hinted, that the games are an exact scene-for-scene recreation of the films.

He could easily have included a scene in the game where Neo battles the Merovingian's minions, while two ghosts chase the others, but not include the ghost chase at all. Or, they are included but in a way that is only similar to what we saw. As long as the basic plot points remain the same-- Neo is the one, Agent Smith is replicating himself, the computers are attacking, etc., all the little moments can be radically different without changing a thing.

reply

I don't disagree, but it seems implied. Everything they were saying in the office (the scene where everyone is sitting at the table talking about the impact the games had ​and what they should do for part 4) seemed like they were referring everything to the movie. Honestly, I think they should have just avoided showing any clips from the other films.

reply