Character of Amy changed into a black girl. - The Passage (2019) Discussion

[–] whynotwriteme (7720) 7 years ago

Look how well that kind of casting worked out for "The Dark Tower" and "The Magnificent Seven".

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[–] Sandoz (2021) 7 years ago

Not to mention "Preacher."

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[–] whynotwriteme (7720) 7 years ago

BTW, they are also changing Babcock to a woman: Brianne Howey as Shauna Babcock.

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[–] Sandoz (2021) 7 years ago

Yeah, I noticed that. At first I thought maybe they had created a new character of a wife for Babcock or something...but I couldn't find any other Babcock listed in the credits so it was a real WTF! moment.

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[–] Adro (1) 6 years ago

The decision to change Amy to an African American was interesting. Not that big of a deal for me though. I was annoyed with the change of the Babcock character from male to female. It seems to make more sense to be male from the description of Babcock the viral as being the biggest.

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[–] mav100000 (345) 6 years ago

I gotta say I actually sorta bought Denzel in Magnificent Seven, but that may be simply because I'm a Denzel fan. I didn't like that there was no mention by anyone that he was black though. Not that I condone racism (I don't), but as a former history major, I would expect it if you want your world to be believable, especially in a historic-fiction way. Never saw the Dark Tower after I heard it sucked (but have read the series through twice) and part of that was the racial change. Roland Deschain was set up as white, with other characters specifically being black, and their interactions were sometimes shaped by racial tension. It was purposeful. While those characters were not in the movie, changing Deschain, a descendant of that universe's king arthur, to a black man just doesn't work with all of the character provided by King.

Why is changing the race of a character to suit liberal Hollywood not yet considered racist?

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[–] R_Kane (15828) 6 years ago

I consider it racist.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

As a former history major, you do know that 1/3 of cowboys were black or Mexican, right?

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[–] mav100000 (345) 6 years ago

Actually I did not, but could have guessed it. Makes sense, after all, especially to have a lot of Mexican cowboys in that area of the country. But note that this was not my point. My point was that there was no racial tension in a movie with a black gunfighter in the old west. Not that I condone it in any way, but still, to have no mention of it just doesn't really make sense. There's gotta be one racist in the old west, even on the side of the villains in the film. Yet no one says a word or thinks it strange. I still enjoy the film and love Denzel, as always, but it just doesn't work to have everyone accept him without question or any prejudice in the late 1800s America!

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

There was much less racism against blacks immediately after the Civil War. There were also more opportunities in the West which is why many blacks moved there. Black cowboys = 15%; Mexican cowboys = 15%. And cowgirls, too.

Washington portrayed a U.S. Marshall so I could see him commanding respect because of his position as a lawman like U.S. Deputy Marshal Bass Reeves. In the 1800s, he brought in over 3,000 outlaws, including the most dangerous, and killed 14 outlaws in self-defense:

"On one occasion, he bumped into three notorious outlaws coming down a trail. A short gunfight later, two of the outlaws were dead and the third had surrendered. On another occasion, he rode into the middle of a lynch mob and rescued their intended victim. Nobody in the mob even tried to stop Bass Reeves. Later, he halted a budding race war in a small town by arresting everyone involved. "

He's considered one of the greatest lawman in U.S. history. No movie. Most people never heard of him.

Why is changing the race of a character to suit liberal Hollywood not yet considered racist?"

Nobody complained about racism when movies and TV shows were inaccurately portraying history or omitting people of color like U.S. Deputy Marshal Bass Reeves.

I found this comment from the director:
"...It is a decision Fuqua stated reflects historical reality more than it does any conscious attempt to update the story. "There were a lot of black cowboys, a lot of Native Americans; Asians working on the railroads. The truth of the West is more modern than the movies have been."

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[–] kuku (3510) 6 years ago

Nobody complained about racism when movies and TV shows were inaccurately portraying history or omitting people of color like U.S. Deputy Marshal Bass Reeves.

That's not the same. Movies were made by white people, including actors. It was NOT a politically intended omission. Black cowboys were omitted, that's true, but black slave owners were omitted TOO. And there were lots of black slave owners.

Nowadays, it's political. And it's purposely and intentionally racist, portraying white males in negative roles while non-white males in positive roles. Black cowboys are portrayed. Black slave owners? Don't hold your breath waiting for it.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

"That's not the same."

Yes, it is the same. The reason why movies were made by "white men" is because of discrimination within the movie industry.

As recently as 2016, the Oscars was criticized for racism and sexism:

"A lack of diversity within the academy, whose ranks consist mostly of older, white men, has long been cited as a barrier to racial inclusion in Hollywood’s highest honors.

But many critics point to the scarcity of opportunities for minorities and women on either side of the camera in a film industry that largely relegates them to marginal or stereotyped roles."
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-film-oscars-diversity-idUSKCN0V02ID

White males have and are overwhelmingly the heroes in movies so to complain about a few antagonist roles is disingenuous.

You're basically complaining about a move towards diversity and equality in movies.

Because of racism in movies, Ancient Egyptians (Old Kingdom), the Moors, the Abyssinians, etc. are portrayed as white instead of the truth, therefore you'll only see a white Queen of Sheba, Pharaohs and white slave owners instead of black.

I knew someone who was a guide at the Statue of Liberty who said she was forbidden to mention that one of the main reasons for its creation was to celebrate the ending of American slavery. How many people know that the statue was commissioned by a French abolitionist who fought against American slavery and it had nothing to do with immigration? And why is it a secret?

How many people know that Helen Keller was an ardent communist or we have weekends off because of the communists fighting for it?

Hollywood and American society in general has a very narrow view of what they want known let alone shown in movies. Maybe that will change, but like you wrote, I'm not holding my breath.

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

Ancient Egyptians were not black either.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

It's not possible to enslave a race without justifying it by removing their humanity and history. Black history is either ignored or when it can't be, the people are turned white.

The early Ancient Egyptians depicted themselves with brown skin, thick lips, broad noses and sometimes with cornrows.

http://www.lisapoyakama.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Toutankhamon-Amenhotep.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_KdcWntyPmeg/S_06RsRxbDI/AAAAAAAAAfc/NH-ESD01mLQ/s1600/Queen+Tiye,+King+Tut+grandmother.jpg

Ancient Greek historian Herodotus described them as black. “Clearly, indeed, the Colchians (a people living along the Black Sea) are of Egyptian race (…) I had conjectured it myself after two indices: first because they have black skin and frizzy hair”

Aristotle, "Those who are too black are cowards, this applies to the Egyptians and Ethiopians.

DNA results of Pharaoh Rameses III and his son prove it.

No people live in a vacuum. Ancient Egypt eventually became very multiracial by contact with foreigners. Muslims invaded around 700 a.d. and had nothing to do with Ancient Egypt.

I found this gem today about how black women are depicted as white in art on the BBC website. http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20190114-how-black-women-were-whitewashed-by-art

A lot of history we learn is BS or only partial history. Schools teach that George Washington cut down a cherry tree and later confessed by saying he couldn't tell a lie. The truth is that didn't happen and he was known for cheating his business partner. And he wasn't the first American president.

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

No, the Ancient Egyptians depicted themselves with an orange-brown skin compared to the dark Nubians who were depicted almost black. Don't rewrite history to fit your own racist views.

From left to right: Syrian, Nubian, Libyan, Egyptian:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Egyptian_races.jpg

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

You just reiterated what I wrote. The Syrian and Libyan are white. The Egyptian isn't white.

The Nubian and Egyptian are dark. Everyone knows that black people come in different shades of brown.

You can't accept the truth even when it's staring you in the face. You showed me a picture of a brown-skinned Egyptian!

Aristotle and historian Herodotus lived during that era and would know.

You should ask yourself why does the truth scare you?

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[–] Threadkiller (3075) 6 years ago

You've provided some thorough receipts & your patience is admirable but no matter what historical information you provide you're not going to convince any of these suspected white supremacists around here. It's a paranoid impulse for them to play dumb, whitewash & deny any blackness of ancient civilization.

In case you haven't noticed they also love pulling the nonsensical "No, you're the racist for being anti racist"/"I know you are but what am I?" card.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

I agree. But, I like to make people aware that there is history that they weren't taught. What they do with that information is up to them.

History in general isn't taught well and has consequences including geopolitically. Example: leaders use ignorance to gain support for wars.

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[–] Threadkiller (3075) 6 years ago

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

I didn't say Ancient Egyptians were white, I said they weren't black. You were wrong. Bye bye, psycho troll!

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[–] Threadkiller (3075) 6 years ago

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

I see that you are attempting to backtrack now. Hollywood hires white actors to portray Ancient Egyptians. European and American painters and textbook illustrators paint them as white. Obviously, your backtracking flies in the face of that reality.

What you say is irrelevant since you aren't backing it up with any credible references. Would you like to deny that Egypt is in Africa too? Insults are usually made when someone becomes frustrated and fear they are losing a debate like you are now.

I provided a few references from different sources that anyone can research further on their own. We all have access to the internet and library cards!

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

Backtrack??? Shall we go back to my first reply to you?:

"Ancient Egyptians were not black either."

You need to visit some countries in Northern Africa if you think the people there are black.

Now take those little pills the nurse gave you and get back into your straightjacket.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

"Ancient Egyptians were not black either."

Still irrelevant since it's based on nothing but your ignorance. Read a book!

"You need to visit some countries in Northern Africa if you think the people there are black.

More ignorance from you if you believe there are no black people living in present day Northern Africa.

""...All the ancient Greek and Roman scholars described the ancient Egyptians as "black" and compared them to looking exactly like the Ethiopians. From the Greek perspective, Ethiopian equals "black" and/or "black African" or "sub-Saharan Africa." So, to even consider ancient Egyptians to be non-black, one would have to declare the writings of Herodotus, Diodorus Siclus, Aristotle, Apollodorus, Ammianus Marcellinus, Lucian Lycinus, among others during a span of more than 1,000 years (since these ancient writers did not live during the same centuries) described the ancient Egyptians as looking like Ethiopians with black skin, crisp/wooley hair, and thick lips...."

This was the artwork entitled "Egyptian Youth" created by Greeks in Alexandra, Egypt the second century BCE."
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d106fb02693e3e063ff7cf4e1e5a378c

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c041f13105af9d1323245b29c4abb751

Stratego thinks he/she is in the same league as ancient scholars! LOL! LOL! LOL!

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

You're the one bringing up irrelevant crap. You said the Pharaohs and the Ancient Egyptians were black. You are WRONG.

I never said there aren't black people in Northern Africa. You pointed to Egypt being in Africa as an argument against me saying the Ancient Egyptians were not black. Such an argument shows how extremely ignorant you are about that area of the world.

I called you out for being a psycho troll, which is a fact. Go back to filmboards!

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

More backtracking from you: this time about North Africa.

"Not black" isn't an ethnic group nor race.

Writing the word wrong in caps is neither a counter argument nor changes reality. Try harder.

Your own words:
"...the dark Nubians who were depicted almost black."

Ancient Egyptian Queen Tiye was ethnically Nubian, therefore from your own words, she was black. Nubia, present day Sudan, is in North Africa.

Like I wrote, go read a book!

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

If with "backtracking" you mean going back to the exact words that I said...

Again, I didn't say there were no black people in Northern Africa. I said you need to visit "some countries" if you think "the people" are black there. Sudan is not always included in the definition of North Africa and it's the ONLY country in that region with a significant black population next to the dominant Arab population. However, we were talking about EGYPT. Don't backtrack. Your point was that the Ancient Egyptians were black because it's in Africa. FALSE argument.

Yeah, the Nubians were black, not the Ancient Egyptians.

Now stop deflecting, troll, the point is that the Ancient Egyptians were NOT black.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

"Yeah, the Nubians were black"

Finally, you agree that the Ancient Egyptians were black!

The Nubians were the original settlers in Egypt. They also settled on the southern border of Egypt and in the Sudan. They founded the oldest settlement in the Nile Valley, Wadi Halfa in 7,000 BC. Various parts of Nubia were part of Ancient Egypt including Ta-Seti.

The Nubians became the Egyptians along with other blacks like the Badari who had migrated from the south.

But, there were Nubians who still remained culturally Nubian.

This is important:
Nubians were not homogeneous and they consisted of many groups which had either friendly or hostile relations with Egypt. For instance, the Medjay, lived, worked and intermarried in Egypt while keeping out its enemy, the Kushites.

In other words, Egyptian rulers with Nubian ancestry hired their allies, the Medjey (Nubians) to protect against the Kushites (Nubians)!

The lighter-skin tone in which you're obsessed happened when Egyptians in Lower Egypt (north) later intermarried with Asians from Libya and Palestine forming a mixed-race Afro-Asiatic people while Egyptians who lived in Upper Egypt (south) remained dark-skinned black Africans.

The Egyptian Pharaohs of the 12th and 25th Dynasty were Nubians (culturally and racially) while the New Kingdom pharaohs Nubians were more assimilated culturally but remained racially unmixed.

"Egypt is in Africa."

There are morons who believe Egypt is in Asia. I assumed you would be one of them.

There are also clear cultural links between the Ancient Egyptians and surrounding black African populations, but I'll save that for another time.

"...Arab population...."
Arabs had nothing to do with Ancient Egypt.

You don't appear to know anything about Arab history in North Africa or you wouldn't have made an offensive comment about the region and its people.

Modern day Nubians in Southern Egypt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEEnM9K5Pus

Reminder: You still haven't presented a single argument.

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

SO much crap is coming out of your ass right now.

I was talking about the Arab population in SUDAN, you freaking moron! And they are the majority there.

Once again, the Ancient Egyptians depicted themselves as orange brown compared to the dark Nubians who were depicted almost black. The Ancient Egyptians were not black. Thank you very much. Now go away, you troll.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

Arabs have nothing to do with Ancient Egypt. Period. Stop bringing them up.

You've already admitted that the Ancient Egyptians are black.

According to your silly attempt at an argument, the Egyptians can't be black because they are lighter than Nubians.That's the equivalent of saying African-Americans can't be black because they are lighter than West Africans. No human should be so dumb! Now you're denying that black people exist in the United States!

The Egyptians in that youtube video are clearly black.

Are you going to continue to troll or are you going to present a feasible argument to support your belief?

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

Then don't bring up Sudan, you dumbass troll! The ONLY country in North Africa where there's a significant black minority.

The Ancient Egyptians don't exist anymore, they have assimilated into other ethnic groups. Your video proves nothing. I bet you can find black people in Denmark. It doesn't make the Vikings black!

I've showed you the picture of Ancient Egyptians depicting themselves as orange brown compared to the dark Nubians who were depicted almost black. There are many more like that. The Ancient Egyptians were not black, they were orange brown.

A team led by Johannes Krause managed the first reliable sequencing of the genomes of 90 mummified individuals in 2017. Whilst not conclusive, because of the non-exhaustive time frame and restricted location that the mummies represent, their study nevertheless showed that these ancient Egyptians "closely resembled ancient and modern Near Eastern populations, especially those in the Levant, and had almost no DNA from sub-Saharan Africa. What's more, the genetics of the mummies remained remarkably consistent even as different powers—including Nubians, Greeks, and Romans—conquered the empire." Later, however, something did alter the genomes of Egyptians. Some 15% to 20% of modern Egyptians' DNA reflects sub-Saharan ancestry, but the ancient mummies had only 6–15% sub-Saharan DNA.

Now stop embarrassing yourself, you racist clown.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

You need to read slower since your reading comprehension is low. Ancient Nubia which is part of present day Sudan has nothing to do with Arabs.

You really can't figure out the lighter complexions in North Africa have to do with rape and castration by Arab invaders starting in 700 A.D. How dumb are you? It's like asking why aren't black people in the diaspora darker.

The descendants of the Ancient Egyptians are the Copts and Nubians. The ones living in Egypt for centuries are Egyptians, rocket scientist. You're literally clueless about Egyptian history. I thought you were trolling, but you're just extremely uneducated.

If being brown-skinned is your only argument for not being considered black, then it's a stupid one. Not all black people are dark. Your definition of a black person is very racist, stereotyped and narrow-minded. Even 100% black Africans have always had a wide-range of skin tones from literal black to very light tan.

For instance, the Khosian people of South Africa are very light-skinned. This woman had a DNA test which came back 100% black African. Just watch 10 seconds of it to see how light she is:
https://youtu.be/b0cZNsJwIiM?t=668

More Khosian people:
https://www.google.com/search?q=khoisan&client=firefox-b-1&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=uiAJ0hBkYCLCtM%253A%252CjkyI-XU0_cCPQM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kQi2PVgVAnuIu3AM24KVcYMbXHQkg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjImIL42orgAhWSmeAKHWHbApwQ9QEwHHoECAAQDA#imgrc=I5OwUHqsl7N_3M:

Your Viking example is dumb. Why believe Vikings are black when you haven't presented any evidence? Present your evidence because unlike you, I actually have an open mind and will be expecting it during your next post for review. On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence that the Ancient Egyptians' origins are black including their own artwork, eyewitness accounts from ancient Greek and Roman historians, DNA and descendants.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

Count Constantine, a French philosopher, historian & politician commented on the Sphinx during the 1700's:

"It is upon seeing that head [the sphinx of Giza] typically negro in all it's features, I remember the remarkable passage of Heroditus, the Ancient Egyptians were true negroes of the same type as all native born Africans.

Just to think that this race of Black men today, are slaves & the object of scorn, the very race to which we owe the origins of our arts, sciences & even the use of speech."

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

How hard is it to understand that the Nubians are NOT Ancient Egyptians? The Nubians have nothing to do with the Ancient Egyptians except that they conquered and assimilated with a part of Egypt, just like the Arabs did. It says nothing about whether the Ancient Egyptians were black.

Uhm, ever heard of the light-skinned Berber people of North Africa? Of course you haven't, you ignorant troll.

You use videos of MODERN NUBIAN Egyptians to prove ANCIENT Egyptians were black. Freaking stupid!

You do some DNA tests on Ancient Egyptian mummies and come back to me with the results to disprove the actual scientists. Okay?

Stop living in denial, you freaking racist troll!

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

"You do some DNA tests on Ancient Egyptian mummies and come back to me with the results to disprove the actual scientists. Okay?"

Done!!!

DNA Test 1:
2012 DNA test conducted by the US laboratory DNA Tribes on three Ancient Egyptian Pharaohs: King Tutankhamen; Amenhotep III; Smenkaré or Akhenaton and on two important Ancient Egyptian priests.

Results:
Sub-Saharan ancestry: (regions of Southern Africa; Tropical West Africa and Horn of Africa)

Full Report:
http://dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2012-01-01.pdf

DNA test 2:
2012 DNA test by Egyptologist Zahi Hawass and al. conducted on Pharaoh Ramesu Hekayunu (Ramesses III) – who ruled around 1200 BC, carries the E1b1a gene, which is an African gene related to Sub-Saharan people.

"...Genetic kinship analyses revealed identical haplotypes in both mummies (Ramses and son) ...using the Whit Athey’s haplogroup predictor, we determined the Y chromosomal haplogroup E1b1a. "

Full Report published in the BMJ :
https://www.bmj.com/bmj/section-pdf/187711? path=/bmj/345/7888/Yesterday_s_World.full.pdf

DNA Test 3:
2013 DNA test conducted by the US laboratory DNA Tribes on Pharaoh Ramesu Hekayunu (Ramesses III) and his son Pentawret which backed-up Hawass' DNA results.

Results:
They are related to the peoples of the Great Lakes, Southern Africa, Central Africa/West Africa, and the horn of Africa.

Full Report:
http://dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2013-02-01.pdf

"just like the Arabs"

Arabs were not in Ancient Egypt. The Nubians were and are considered indigenous Egyptians.

The THREE DNA test proved that there were black Egyptian Pharaohs - unless you stupidly believe that King Tut wasn't Egyptian. Or you're a racist who believes King Tut was less of an Egyptian because he was black.

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

I didn't say there were Arabs in Ancient Egypt. If you weren't so dumb, I'd almost think you keep twisting my words on purpose. I was simply pointing out the similarities between the Nubians, who conquered and assimilated with the Ancient Egyptians, and your "Arab invaders" who conquered and assimilated with the peoples of North Africa (and who, by the way, are not the cause of the light complexions of the Berber people). Both are foreign peoples NOT identical to the Ancient Egyptians.

Now on to your study. It seems the scientific community doesn't pay much attention to the results and with good reason. DNA Tribes are not legitimate scientific researchers, it's a commercial ancestry testing company that uses, as it seems, outdated methods:
https://www.toptenreviews.com/services/home/best-dna-testing-kits/dna-tribes-review//

There are also two problems with the DNA they used:
1) Attempts to sequence DNA from Tutankhamun or his family (and other mummies) has been met with mostly skepticism because of the high likelihood of contamination and the degraded quality of the DNA:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20014-royal-rumpus-over-king-tutankhamuns-ancestry/
The 2017 study is the first to provide reliable data because of the technology and methods used.
2) DNA Tribes used autosomal DNA, which is far less reliable than mitochondrial DNA testing (which was used in the 2017 study). They also used only 8 loci to compare, which gives an error margin of 40%. For example, a DNA profile can only be uploaded to the National DNA Index System if it has at least 10 loci.

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

The study itself also has some interesting things to say:

"These results indicate that both Ramesses III and Unknown Man E (possibly his son Pentawer) shared an ancestral component with present day populations of Sub-Saharan Africa. This preliminary analysis based on eight STR markers DOES NOT identify the percentages of Sub-Saharan African ancestry for these ancient individuals. This preliminary analysis also DOES NOT exclude additional ancestral components (such as Near Eastern or Mediterranean related components) for these ancient pharaonic Egyptians."

The study gives NO percentages and says nothing about other components. Non-Sub-Saharan ancestry could very well make up the largest percentage of the DNA. These particular mummies shared ONE component with modern Sub-Saharans. It's possible they had one black ancestor from outside Ancient Egypt, perhaps Nubia. It says nothing about the ethnicity of the Ancient Egyptians as a people.

"In addition, these DNA match results in present day world regions might in part express population changes in Africa after the time of Ramesses III. In particular, DNA matches in present day populations of Southern Africa and the African Great Lakes might to some degree reflect genetic links with ancient populations (formerly living closer to New Kingdom Egypt) that have expanded southwards in the Nilotic and Bantu migrations of the past 3,000 years"

Do you understand what's being implied here? That instead of the mummies and these modern Sub-Saharans sharing the same Sub-Saharan ancestor, they actually share the same Ancient Egyptian ancestor.

Sorry, but "your tests" disprove nothing. Come back to me when you get a scientific degree and publish your own study that will actually be accepted by your scientific peers. Thank you.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

"You do some DNA tests on Ancient Egyptian mummies and come back to me with the results to disprove the actual scientists. Okay?"

Done!!! Multiplied by THREE DNA results!!

Too late to backtrack against DNA tests now when you thought yours was proof.

Your links to a blogger who has no credentials and an uninvolved individual expressing only an opinion are irrelevant.

And so are you. I suggest you return back to school and get your GED. Your ignorance is showing!

Meanwhile, King Tut was black as per the DNA test. Live with that fact!

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

Those tests were not done by YOU. You also don't have THREE independent sources. Two of the links are DNA tests done by one and the same commercial ancestry testing company, DNA Tribes. As for your link about Dr. Zahi Hawass' research, the data from that study is actually the data DNA Tribes used for their DNA testing.

I would also like to point out that Dr. Hawass' methods were criticised in the article I provided (here's another critrical article from The Smithsonian: [url]https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/controversial-afterlife-king-tut-180953400/?page=2/url]. I can also tell you that Dr. Hawass does not believe that the Ancient Egyptians were black. So I wouldn't use him as a source If I were you:

https://dailynewsegypt.com/2007/09/27/tutankhamun-was-not-black-says-hawass/

The Ancient Egyptians were NOT black. All future DNA test results will prove that. You better prepare yourself!

And I already have a master's degree, thank you very much.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

More attempts at backtracking, I see.

Nevertheless, THREE DNA tests results have satisfied your request for proof as per your own statement:

"You do some DNA tests on Ancient Egyptian mummies and come back to me with the results to disprove the actual scientists. Okay?"

Done!!! The THREE DNA test results speak for themselves. Words can't change the scientific results.

Get your GED! Read a book!

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

You seem to love the word, but it's clear you have no idea what "backtracking" means. All I discussed is how unrealiable YOUR sources are.

No, not THREE DNA tests. Dr. Hawass,' team did a DNA test and DNA Tribes analised that data. They did not extract, sequence and test the DNA from the mummies independently.

Again, YOU did not do any DNA tests. And as I've explained, the tests you provided did nothing to disprove the scientists. I clearly stated the problems with the DNA itself and YOUR interpretation of the analysis.

Stop making up bullshit and listen to the experts. Even the guy who extracted and tested the DNA samples you refer to, does not believe the analysis of the results means that Ancient Egyptians were black!

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

You have no credentials, therefore no credibility to scrutinize the veracity of DNA results.

"You do some DNA tests on Ancient Egyptian mummies and come back to me with the results to disprove the actual scientists. Okay?"

Done!!! Three DNA test results stand! What a sore loser you are.

The Ancient Egyptians couldn't make it any clearer:
https://www.osirisnet.net/tombes/pharaons/amenhotep3/photo/amenhotep3_head_03.jpg

You're in serious denial if you can't tell he's black.

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

So you came back to get schooled some more?

I don't have any credentials in that particular field, but the scientists I referred to certainly do.

YOU did not do any DNA tests, so cut the crap. You only provided me with the results of 1 DNA test (NOT 3, how many times do I have to tell you?) and I already explained what the problem was with YOUR interpretation of those results.

As for your picture of Amenhotep III:

1. In that picture he is orange brown, NOT black like the Nubians.
2. Here's a lighter version of that same picture. Who knows which one is closer to the actual mural, huh?:

http://picturestack.com/360/289/ZdAPicture1uQm.png

He certainly looks more orange in this picture, doesn't he? Hmm?:

https://www.osirisnet.net/tombes/pharaons/amenhotep3/photo/amenhotep3_ch_108.jpg

2. And are these negroid features???:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/Colossal_Amenhotep_III_British_Museum.jpg/220px-Colossal_Amenhotep_III_British_Museum.jpg

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/HDX6RF/statue-of-amenhotep-iii-in-the-temple-of-mut-the-great-at-karnak-luxor-HDX6RF.jpg

https://www.myartprints.co.uk/kunst/egyptian/colossal_head_amenhotep_iii_q_hi.jpg

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/sculpture-head-egyptian-king-amenhotep-iii-berlin-germany-sept-stone-ancient-pharaoh-museum-september-collection-neues-61563038.jpg

You know what, I think he might've been Chinese!!!

Stop.Embarrassing.Yourself.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

"I don't have any credentials in that particular field"

Preciously the reason why you should shut up. The DNA results have already established Amhenotop as black. Furthermore, paleoanatomists who examined ancient Egyptian mummies' skeletons and skulls have classified 24% of pre-dynastic skulls and 25% of dynastic skulls as purely Negroid.

Also, German archeologist and Egyptogist Karl Richard Lepsius at the end of the 19th century described them as of Negroid or Negrito physical type too based on his study of their skeletons.”

And yes, he does look black even with your obviously washed- out photo showing him with blue hair. LOL.

BTW, there are no orange people on Earth. Your racism has made you stupid and blind.

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

How about YOU shutting your trap once and for all, because YOU don't have any credentials, YOU didn't do any DNA tests and YOU only linked to ONE DNA test.

I referred to scientists with actual credentials who tested 90 mummies. You referred to ONE DNA test, that did not even claim the Ancient Egyptians were black, by a egyptologist who does not have the best reputation in his field. In no way did you prove that the scientists I referred to were wrong.

You're really using racial classification from the 19th century as an argument??? Get out of here. Maybe you can convince Hitler, but no real scientist would take that seriously. So what about 75% of the skulls? Pure Caucasoid??? Dumbass.

"Forensic artists and physical anthropologists from Egypt, France, and the United States independently created busts of Tutankhamun, using a CT-scan of the skull. Biological anthropologist Susan Anton, the leader of the American team, said the race of the skull was "hard to call". She stated that the shape of the cranial cavity indicated an African, while the nose opening suggested narrow nostrils, which is usually considered to be a European characteristic. The skull was thus concluded to be that of a North African.[40] Other experts have argued that neither skull shapes nor nasal openings are a reliable indication of race.[41]"

Oh, so you did notice the blue hair, but not the fact his eyeliner was still black??? If my photo was washed out, then your photo was darkened. You can't even see the cracks that are visible in my photo. The other photo was actually from the website YOU linked to and he was very orange in that one.

No human has white skin either, you racist psycho. We're talking about freaking paintings. The point is that the Ancient Egyptians portrayed themselves as having orange brown skin, while they portrayed the Nubians as almost black.

My advice to you: Get an education!

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

FOURTH DNA Results re: black ancient Egyptian ancestry!!!!
http://ethiohelix.blogspot.com/2012/12/ramesses-iii-belonged-to-ydna.html

Why ancient Egypt's black origins needed to be hidden?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1987/10/11/the-black-roots-of-egypts-glory/1c3faf74-331c-4cc1-a6a0-3535fa3e098a/

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

That's the same freaking DNA test by Zahi Hawass! Did you even click on the link?
You've provided ONE freaking test on just two mummies. Just stop the insanity!

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

"There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas." (Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians, physical anthropology of," in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York Routledge, 1999) pp 328-332)

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

YOu said you would shut up with proof of ONE DNA result. FOUR were provided therefore you should keep your word and crawl back under your rock.

More black pharaohs:
Pharaoh Sahure (Fifth Dynasty) https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-f58c4eaa23936d0c9cba12d77d4eafc1

Pharaoh Huni (3rd Dynasty) - great-grandfather of Khafre, the man depicted in the face of the Sphynx https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8ae0f1a2a44911ac0262f37a075564e0

And Ramses III himself. https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-982389e52f597565fd6bd9733aba6a2e

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

No, I said YOU should go do a DNA test to prove the scientists I referred to wrong. Because no other DNA test ever done has proved them wrong.

You did NOT provide four. Why do you keep lying? ALL your sources were based on the test done by Hawass.

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

Lovell is an anthropologist who bases her conclusions on LESS than DNA or even skull measurements:

"Indeed, in 1996, Lovell and Prowse published a paper in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology citing evidence for endogamy. They reported the presence of individual rulers buried at Naqada in what was designated as elite, high status tombs, showing them to be related morphologically to populations in Northern Nubia, more so than those in Southern Egypt.[39] While others find this prospect intriguing, however, many scholars are not swayed by the evidence and cite the presence of royal tombs that are contemporary with that of Qustul and just as elaborate, while also addressing what they see as difficulty with the dating techniques.[40]"

You're getting more and more pathetic.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

Obviously, you're too stupid to understand scientific data. It means the ancient Egyptians they studied were black!

Let’s reiterate:

MY PROOF:

1)mummies' examinations 2)ancient Greek historian Herodotus, 3)Aristotle, 4)Four DNA results 5)skeletal and cranial proof, 6)Egyptian sculptures and paintings 7)Greek and Roman art 8)Egyptologists 9)Ancient Egyptians said origins from southern areas Africa (Sudan) 10)archeologists 11) numerous ancient Greek and Roman contemporary scholars like Diodorus Siclus, Apollodorus, Ammianus Marcellinus, Lucian Lycinus, among others during a span of more than 1,000 years 12) Volmy admitting they were black during the Napolean expedition 13) Egypt at that time was a part of black Africa (before invasions) 14) Nubians described as indigenous Egyptians 15) Scholars acknowledging that 25th Dynasty were ruled by Nubians 16) French Count Constantine admits that they were "true Negros" when he saw the Sphinx. 16) Egyptogist Karl Richard Lepsius skeletal results

YOUR PROOF:
1) Panel with black Egyptians 2) DNA scientists admitting that there were black Egyptians that they hadn't tested 3) Stratego admits that the Nubians and Sudan (Egyptians' origin) are black.

Your proof only helps me so it's 19 for me and you have 0. Zero is the story of your life.

You haven't been able to present one piece of credible evidence to prove that the Egyptians are "orange space aliens". I'm assuming that's your argument since there are no orange people on Earth.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

20)
35,000-30,000 B.C. “Oldest human skeleton found in Egypt“. Nazlet Khater man was the earliest modern human skeleton found near Luxor, in 1980. The remains was dated from between 35,000 and 30,000 years ago. The report regarding the racial affinity of this skeleton concludes: “Strong alveolar prognathism combined with fossa praenasalis in an African skull is suggestive of Negroid morphology [form & structure]. The radio-humeral index of Nazlet Khater is practically the same as the mean of Taforalt (76.6). According to Ferembach (1965) this value is near to the Negroid average.” The burial was of a young man of 17-20 years old, whose skeleton lay in a 160cm- long narrow ditch aligned from east to west. A flint tool, which was laid carefully on the bottom of the grave, dates the burial as contemporaneous with a nearby flint quarry.

Thoma A., Morphology and affinities of the Nazlet Khater man, Journal of Human Evolution, vol 13, 1984.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

21)
Dr. S.O.Y. Keita, a well respected and noteable anthropologist did a cranial analysis of his own on various cranias, in his work "Studies of Ancient Crania From Northern Africa." His samples included predynastic Badari, predynastic early Naqqada, Kerma (Bronze Age Nubia), 1st Dynasty royal remains at Abydos, Teita East Africa, Gaboon Central-West Africa, and Romano-Britain. Through his experiments he was able to gain several observations. He found that the Badari predynastic Egyptian crania occupied, "a position closest to the Teita, Gaboon, Nubian, and Nagada series.

Also Badar predynastic Egyptian crania, Keita continues:

"The Badarian crania have a modal metric phenotype that is clearly 'southern'; most classify into the Kerma (Nubian), Gaboon, and Kenyan groups NO Badarian cranium in any analysis classified into the EUROPEAN SERIESs…

Translation: None of predynastic Badarian skulls were European or white.

In the late Naqqada predynastic Egyptian. These crania have been found to more heterogenous in nature. But still, all posses Negroid affinities. Miss Fawcett believes the Naqada crania to be SUFFICIANTLY HOMOGENOUS to justify speaking of a Naqada RACE. By height of the skull, the auricular height, the height and width of the face, the height of the nose, the ceohalic and facial indexes, this race PRESENTS AFFINITIES WITH NEGROES

My proof: 21 Your proof: still 0

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

Where the hell did I or the scientists I referred to say that the Ancient Egyptians were white or European???

The Badarian were a pre-dynastic people in the area, we don't know how they evolved before the dynastic era that we're talking about.

Keita is not without controversy, but
I already explained what the problem is with skull measurements and gave you examples of scientists who disagree with you. Not everybody agrees with Keita either, like Eugen Strouhal:

"By the individual analysis of nasal measurements and indices of the first Badarian series in comparison with the mixed Europoid-Negroid series from Wadi Qitna in Nubia (fourth-fifth century AD), with the Europoid series from Manfalout in Upper Egypt (Ptolemaic period) and with a series of recent Nilotes, I came to the conclusion that the distribution of the Badarian skulls extends from the Europoid to the Negroid range.

Of the total 117 skulls, 15 were found to be markedly Europoid, 9 of these were of the gracile Mediterranean type, 6 were of very robust structure reminiscent of the North African Cromagnon type. Eight skulls were clearly Negroid... We may conclude that the share of both components was nearly the same, with some overweight to the Europoid side."

Also Scott Haddow:

"Dental trait analysis of Badarian fossils found that they were closely related to other Afroasiatic-speaking populations inhabiting Northeast Africa and the Maghreb. Among the ancient populations, the Badarians were nearest to other ancient Egyptians (Naqada, Hierakonpolis, Abydos and Kharga in Upper Egypt; Hawara in Lower Egypt), and C-Groupand Pharaonic era skeletons excavated in Lower Nubia, followed by the A-Group culture bearers of Lower Nubia, the Kerma and Kushpopulations in Upper Nubia, the Meroitic, X-Group and Christian period inhabitants of Lower Nubia, and the Kellis population in the Dakhla Oasis. Among the recent groups, the Badari makers were morphologically closest to the Shawia and Kabyle Berber populations of Algeria as well as Bedouin groups in Morocco, Libya and Tunisia, followed by other Afroasiatic-speaking populations in the Horn of Africa. The Badarian skeletons and these ancient and recent fossils were also phenotypically distinct from those belonging to some other populations in Sub-Saharan Africa."

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

One, you can not count.
Two, I can not take you seriously if you're going to compare prehistoric human species with Ancient Egyptians!

But I'll play along:

"The similarities between NK2 and Upper Paleolithic European samples may indicate a close relationship between this Nile Valley specimen and European Upper Paleolithic modern humans."
https://www.revolvy.com/page/Nazlet-Khater

Even Europeans looked like Africans
back then. We all come from Africa
originally! This says nothing about how the Ancient Egyptians looked.

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

No, freak, it means they assume Southern Ancient Egyptians are closely related to sub-Saharan peoples just based on skeletal measurements. Lovell herself only studies cultural similarities. You understand nothing.
1) Your Mr. Hawass says that based on the appearance of the mummies, the Egyptians were NOT black. I already quoted anthropologist Susan Anton. Also: "A craniofacial study by C. Loring Brace et. al. concluded that the Predynastic of Upper Egypt and the Late Dynastic of Lower Egypt are more closely related to each other than to any other population. As a whole, they show ties with the European Neolithic, North Africa, modern Europe, and, more remotely, India, but not at all with sub-Saharan Africa, eastern Asia, Oceania, or the New World." But I already mentioned the problem scientists have with skull measurements.
2+3. Classical sources are not reliable whatsoever! Aristotle probably never visited Egypt. But how about this: "Ammianus Marcellinus described the Egyptians as lighter than the Moors and Strabo compared the complexion of ancient Egyptians to that of northern Indians."
4. Liar! ONE DNA test and the guy even said they weren't black.
5. Same as point 1
6+7. Go back and look at my paintings and statues. There are many more. Nefertiti black? No way! And full lips does not make one black.
8. Your Egyptologist Mr. Hawass says they are NOT black!
9. Uhm, when did the Ancient Egyptians say that? Never!
10. Same category as Egyptologists.
11. See 2. Not reliable and as I pointed out, not consistent. Ancient Greek historian Arrian: "the southern Indians are rather more like Ethiopians as they are black to look on, and their hair is black; the northern Indians are most like the Egyptians physically."
12. How would he know?! Not a modern, reliable scientist.
13. Don't make up shit
14. Uhm, by whom exactly?!
15. Because the freaking Nubians had invaded! Doesn't make the Ancient Egyptians black.
16. See 12
17. See 12 and 1

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

1. No, orange brown Egyptians
2. They never said such a thing. They simply stated more mummies in southern Egypt should be tested.
3. Yep, the Nubians were black, the Ancient Egyptians were not.

There are no white people on this earth either, what's your point? The Ancient Egyptians portrayed themselves as orange brown, while they portrayed the Nubians as almost black. Clearly they were not the same color.

Again, you idiot, you can not count!

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

You're rambling!

"I came to the conclusion..."

You already admitted that you have no qualifications, therefore any interpretation or other misinformation from you is irrelevant and discounted.

""You do some DNA tests on Ancient Egyptian mummies and come back to me with the results to disprove the actual scientists. Okay?"

Done!!! I standby the 4 DNA results and Egyptian art and artifacts which speak for themselves.

You can continue to believe that the Ancient Egyptians were orange space aliens!!!

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

You freaking idiot! I'm not the one who came to that conclusion. Strouhal did, a scientist with actual qualifications. I was quoting him. If I need to shut up, then you certainly should because you have even less to offer than I have.

You have NOT done DNA tests yourself and only referred to ONE test done by others.

I'm referring to pictures, you fool. And in those the Egyptians CLEARLY look different from the Nubians. And where are all the "white" people on this planet? Or the "black" ones for that matter?

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

4 DNA results outweigh one opinion and your unqualified self.

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

How many times do I need to repeat it was only ONE DNA test by Zahi Hawass?

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

Zahi Hawass quotes:

"The concept of killing women, children, and elderly people ... seems to run in the blood of the Jews of Palestine" and that "the only thing that the Jews have learned from history is methods of tyranny and torment — so much so that they have become artists in this field."

" ...although Jews are few in number, they control the entire world"

Of course, you would support an anti-Semite and racist.

Also discredited, fired and corrupt who faced jail time for theft multiple times. Your kind of person! LOL!

Continue to believe in orange space aliens!

You're very ignorant but you already confessed to be vastly unqualified! That's obvious and one thing we both agree.

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

Uhm, YOU were the one who brought up Hawass and used his DNA test as evidence. I actually said he has been
criticised. Dang, you're dumb.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

I'm not surprised that you discount all DNA results except from your white supremacist and anti-Semite hero.

Continue to believe in your orange space aliens and spew your racist rambling rhetoric.

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

You can not read, can you? YOU are the one that relies on the DNA results by Hawass.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

I already saw Krause's "research" a few days ago and discounted it because it's misleading and faulty. I already told you that I fact check. I know you are desperate, but the research still needs to be objective which this isn't. Even the paragraph you pasted contains some of the problems that I will detail.

"sequencing of the genomes of 90 mummified individuals"
Not true. Only 3 used to determine ethnicity/race:
"...haplogroups of the three individuals for which genome-wide data was obtained"

"Whilst not conclusive, because of the non-exhaustive time frame and restricted location that the mummies represent"

This is the most biased part of the research. In English, it means that the location of the mummies was limited to the north and time frame more recent 776-2 B.C. when Egypt had an influx of white Persians, Greeks, Romans and Arabs. Search my previous comments when I already told you blacks were in the south and the mixed people in the north. Also, I already wrote they "became very multiracial by contact with foreigners." as time passed. Testing around 5,000-1700 b.c. would be more accurate re: Nubians. Their own report confirms this:

"However, we note that all our genetic data were obtained from a single site in Middle Egypt and may not be representative for all of ancient Egypt. It is possible that populations in the south of Egypt were more closely related to those of Nubia and had a higher sub-Saharan genetic component..."

More from their report:
"Throughout Pharaonic history there was intense interaction between Egypt and Nubia, ranging from trade to conquest and colonialism, and there is compelling evidence for ethnic complexity within households with Egyptian men marrying Nubian women and vice versa. Clearly, more genetic studies on ancient human remains from southern Egypt and Sudan are needed before apodictic statements can be made."

The two last two research paragraphs confirm what I've been telling you. Read it!
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694#ref10

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[–] Threadkiller (3075) 6 years ago

Again very thorough information & props to you once more for having such patience. As I'm sure you've noticed racists/white supremacists almost always engage in motivated reasoning.

Whatever historical information you provide will never matter to those types but your willingness to put these facts out there that objectively counter erroneous white supremacist narratives is appreciated.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

I commend you on your accurate portrayal of racist behavior on this site.

He can continue to live in his willful ignorance bubble. Meanwhile, I have a chance to share information.

I believe the tide is finally turning because movies like "Exodus: Gods and Kings" and "Gods of Egypt" were heavily criticized for racism since only Caucasians were chosen to star as Ancient Egyptians.

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

No, the genomes of 93 mummies were sequenced and analized. Don't leave out shit when you quote:

"Here we present 90 mitochondrial genomes as well as genome-wide data sets from three individuals obtained from Egyptian mummies."

Your full quote about the haplogroups is this:

"The affinity to the Middle East finds FURTHER SUPPORT by the Y-chromosome haplogroups of the three individuals for which genome-wide data was obtained"

What this means is that haplogroup analysis of the nuclear samples confirms the haplogroup analysis of the mitochondrial samples. Your quote actually came from the section about the analysis of the 90 mitochondrial genomes :

"To test for genetic differentiation and homogeneity we compared HAPLOGROUP composition, calculated FST-statistics28 and applied a test for population continuity29(Supplementary Table 2, Supplementary Data 3,4) on MITOCHONDRIAL genome data"

And the results in no way showed they were "mixed race". They even had less sub-Saharan genes than modern Egyptians!

How can you complain about the testing site being limited when
all you've provided is ONE
DNA test of just TWO mummies who
are most likely related to
each other. And when the people who tested and analized the DNA even admit that the results don't mean Ancient Egyptians originated from the sub-Sahara. Two mummies from the same place and era against 93 mummies that span around 1,300 years of ancient Egyptian history from the New Kingdom to the Roman Period. I know what's more telling...

Yes, an Ancient Egyptian man and a Nubian woman would have mixed-raced children. Doesn't mean Ancient Egyptians themselves were black.

I love how you keep talking to yourself through a sockpuppet account.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

You're rambling!

"I came to the conclusion..."

You already admitted that you have no qualifications, therefore any interpretation or other misinformation from you is irrelevant and discounted.

"You do some DNA tests on Ancient Egyptian mummies and come back to me with the results to disprove the actual scientists. Okay?"

Done!!! I standby the 4 DNA results and Egyptian art and artifacts which speak for themselves.

You can continue to believe in orange Ancient Egyptians space aliens!!!

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

Stop posting your crap twice.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

Stop rambling!

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

Yes, I can see why
logic would seem like rambling to a mentally ill person like you.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

Mentally ill people ramble so you must be deflecting.

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

Nope, just pointing out the truth. But yes, you're living proof that mentally ill people ramble. You're also proof that they ignore evidence. You only provided ONE DNA test!

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

"You do some DNA tests on Ancient Egyptian mummies and come back to me with the results to disprove the actual scientists. Okay?"

Done!!!

"You only provided ONE DNA test!"

Still Done!!!

Multiplied by FOUR DNA results!!

You're deflecting again!

Interesting how your entire "proof" is from a racist anti-Semite conman like Hawass.

You should spend less time on the internet and more time reading books. Your ignorance is showing.

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

YOU did NOT do any DNA tests. You rely on merely ONE DNA test done by Hawass. Again, you are incredibly dumb. You need to learn how to read. PERIOD.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

Of course, you would follow a racist and anti-Semite! Your hatred and bigotry have fed your ignorance.

I'll let you have the last word since I know crazy people like to ramble.

Ramble away by insisting orange people exist. LOL!

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

It's quite clear right now that you're a troll. Go back to filmboards, you freak!

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[–] R_Kane (15828) 6 years ago

Thank you!

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[–] raymondoz2007 (2098) 6 years ago

Fantasitic Four

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[–] sleepingtiger (712) 7 years ago

What difference does it make? Never heard of this show, but in a show about vampires, why the hell does everyone have to be white all the time? And don't give me that "because the character was originally white in the novel, they should stay white" nonsense. Fictional characters in books get changed ALL the time in the transition from book to screen---with the emphasis on fictional, so who the hell cares what color they are? Geesh! This is the 21st century,people---show some imagination.

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[–] Sandoz (2021) 7 years ago

This isn't about showing "imagination" by making the change...it's about making a change that isn't necessary--or defensible--unless it's being done solely to advance a social agenda. And sorry Mr. Tool (or Ms. Tool, if you happen to be female, who the hell knows on the internet), but yes, I happen to believe that if a character was written a certain way in a novel or story originally, then their character should be transitioned with those same characteristics when the film adaptation is made. If Cronin had written Amy as a black girl originally, then fine, cast her that same way, too. I consider myself a liberal, but I'm also libertarian, and I hate being lectured to or made to conform to any kind of mandate that purports to tell me how I have to act--or what I have to watch--just because it is "good" for me.

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[–] sleepingtiger (712) 7 years ago

Sandoz:
Why is changing the character to a black girl being part of a "social agenda"? What is that supposed to mean? The truth is, some black kids love sci-fi as much as white kids so, so why the hell can't they see somebody who looks like them in a sci-fi show? What the hell is wrong with that? Nothing. It has nothing to do with a "social agenda" and more to do with the fact that the U.S. is more multicultural now, and TV programs (mainly the ones being directed, produced and written by black directors, producers, and writers) are merely casting to reflect that fact,and catering to a multiracial, multicultural audience. That's all that casting choice is about. Nobody is using that to tell you what to do or how to act---I don't know where you're getting all that from. As a black woman, it's nice to see people that look like me for a change, as well as other people of color in TV shows. White people aren't the only folks who watch TV, you know. Black people are real everyday people who like watching sci-fi and supernatural shows, not "social agendas", thank you very much.

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[–] bohemianroxie (2478) 6 years ago

I understand what you're saying but I also get Sandoz..
Perhaps sometimes it is irrelevant and recasting creates a wider appeal to new fans. But sometimes it feels a little manipulative especially if it's an established character in a series of books that someone has envisioned and loved for several years for old fans....
If they manage to stay with with the same theme it shouldn't be too earth shaking..
But this is Network tv..I'm not so hopeful.

It was originally written as a sort of love letter to Justin Cronin's daughter and was suppose to somewhat represent her. That's how it came about in the first place.
Even so, what irritates me most is gender swapping male characters to female (and I'm female)..
Sometimes things just work better as written.

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[–] Reaperscout (605) 6 years ago

Why do black kids need a black actor or black character to root for and stuff while watching a movie or TV show? Same thing for anyone of ANY skin color I'm both Native American and White. When I was a kid, I watched Independence Day almost once a day when I got it on VHS and it competes with Batman 1989 as to what movie I watched the most as a kid. The ONLY reason I watched Independence Day 2 was because of Will Smith. Was a HUGE Will Smith fan back in the day and watched A LOT of Fresh Prince before seeing the movie. And I was slightly bored while watching the movie whenever he wasn't onscreen. It also felt like an eternity waiting for his first scene of the movie. I never really paid attention to skin color either. Will Smith made me laugh and that's all I cared about. Then Independence Day came along and had a movie I could watch him in (I eventually learned about Bad Boys which I also liked). Also, Kenan & Kel was one of my favorite shows as a kid. Both of them are also black. And I tried being both like Kenan & Kel. I could relate more to Kenan so that was simple, and then I started drinking a lot more orange soda like Kel.

It really shouldn't come down to actual skin color for a character to be relatable or root for. It should be the actual character themselves. It should come down to how the character acts, what job they have, what their interests are, if they are popular or not, if they are parent or sibling, and so on. Or maybe it could be someone they would like to be. It shouldn't be about skin color.

Also, gender shouldn't matter either. I'm a guy, but I was there opening day for Wonder Woman and I loved that movie. Plus Wonder Woman was the best part of the Justice League movie. I also watched stuff like Clarissa Explains It All and Clueless and Sabrina The Teenage Witch as a kid, which those three had female leads (two of them had the same actress).

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[–] bohemianroxie (2478) 6 years ago

That's a good point, Reaperscout...I've often related to males or other race characters in books, film or tv shows more than my own (white female).. It depends on the character..I do wonder sometimes if some current gender confusion isn't at times based on this natural phenomenon..

A few years ago on the imdb TWD boards someone called me racist because I said that after getting to know the characters I didn't really notice or think about their race..Evidently that poster thought I should always be thinking about it (identity politics) which to me actually seemed more racist.
And that's another thing..Speaking ones opinion shouldn't automatically be called out as racist if it doesn't jell with what's pc or ones own opinion. There's a huge difference between hate and thoughtful observation.

TWD is a good example of a show that started out showing diversity in a natural way. But in the last several years it has swerved more into checking boxes and being less natural with its choices. And I think there lays the difference today in a lot of projects ..
When diversity is forced hamfisted into a project it can be glaring and can distort the original story...and I'm including sticking females in what originally was a male role or making straight characters gay.
It just doesn't always work and we can see the strings holding everything up when it doesn't.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

You're younger than I am and perhaps have taken the struggle for equality for granted. In answer to your question should ALL movie heroes be depicted as white men? That's the world I grew up in. When I was a kid, ALL newscasters were white men, too. Only after a class action suit against the three main stations, (ABC,NBC and CBS) were the first black and women newscasters allowed to appear on TV which occurred a year later. It left a strong impression on me.

You're complaining about diversity, but not discrimination and racism that were normal in films and TV before the 1960s. You're right that it shouldn't be about skin color, but the reality is we live in a racist and sexist society. People like to see themselves represented in a good light in films and TV especially if they're paying money. And personally, I enjoy seeing diversity.

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[–] DarthJJ (341) 6 years ago

They did the something in the movie, the girl with all the gifts. it was had to tell that she was a zombie in the movie.

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[–] TandyMan (11096) 6 years ago

The marketing for this show is funny too. All the first tv ads I saw were entirely focused on the black girl, but the ads they run during NFL games, it's the white boy show, you wouldn't even know she's in it.

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[–] kuku (3510) 6 years ago

Read the book, dismiss the series. They're doing the same everywhere. Modern TV series have become propaganda.

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[–] TandyMan (11096) 6 years ago

Never even heard of it. But I rarely read anything published in the 21st century. Is that why it has that horrible name? I'm sure that's a fine name for a novel, but you're never gonna have a hit show with some obscure title like The Passage.

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[–] kuku (3510) 6 years ago

It's not some obscure title. It was one of those highly praised horror novels in the last two decades.

I started to read it a few years ago but left it after 50 pages. It was not bad, though. It was just one of those slow burning fat books. Actually, I'm thinking now about giving it another chance.

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[–] TandyMan (11096) 6 years ago

Obscure I say! A tv show's title should infer what the subject matter is. What's Will & Grace? Dunno, but I'm guessing it's about two people, could be a sitcom or a marriage drama. What's Criminal Minds? Dunno, but it's probably about bad guys and people trying to catch them. What's This Is Us? Sounds like an exploration of relationships. Maybe a whack sitcom about some weirdos. What's The Passage? A road trip show? A haunted hallway? I have no idea. That's why the promos made sure to throw around the world VAMPIRES! People like vampires. Why not call the show Not Exactly Vampires. People would watch that!

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[–] bohemianroxie (2478) 6 years ago

The series is based on a best seller published in 2010..It's the first of a trilogy
The Passage,
The Twelve (published 2012)
and The City of Mirrors..(published 2016)

Anyone that reads very much has likely heard of the first book even if it's out of their genre.
Any fan of the books is mostly cringing because Fox network hasn't got what it takes to do justice to the book series. It should have gone to premium cable..The books are lengthy and too complex by network tv standards, have too many characters and are not linear.
But you're right. They should have called it something more literal that explained to people that don't care about books exactly what it's about..
Like Breaking Bad.

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[–] AhmadSumadi (54) 6 years ago

Why’s it propaganda? TV has been extremely white for decades. Was that propaganda? I mean, 90% of TV is still very much white and you’re pissed off at a splash of color? For every black main there are still 5 white mains. But I guess you don’t like those odds.

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[–] janelsenor (2044) 6 years ago

Did people get this upset when Felix Leiter became black in the Bond movies? Just wondering. I don't remember seeing anyone give a shit.

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[–] kuku (3510) 6 years ago

Back then those were isolated cases. It didn't matter that much.

Right now it's a constant, one sided, continuous trickle. And then add that white males are usually depicted as clowns or psychopaths.

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[–] janelsenor (2044) 6 years ago

Terrible. I think white people should riot over this.

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[–] kuku (3510) 6 years ago

Dont' worry, sooner or later that's gonna happen. Civil wars are just a matter of time.

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[–] janelsenor (2044) 6 years ago

Sounds exciting.

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[–] kuku (3510) 6 years ago

Then congrats. Good for you.

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[–] McQualude (4231) 6 years ago

Television is a business and business benefits by appealing to a wide audience. They want black people to watch the show too.

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[–] bohemianroxie (2478) 6 years ago

Was it really necessary to change Babcock into a female though? I see no point in it..and it really worked better to me with his being male...
And no, I'm not being sexist. I'm female myself.

But it's not like there was a shortage of female characters ...It's pointless.

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[–] McQualude (4231) 6 years ago

Broadcast tv has really taken a nosedive the last couple years. I used to record lots of shows but now most of my viewing is streaming.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

Recently, tennis player Naomi Osaka who is half Japanese and half Haitian had her skin changed from brown to white and her features changed to make her look white by a sponsor.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/23/tennis/nissin-naomi-osaka-skin-tone-intl/index.html

Previously, she was drawn as a blond white female while stereotyping Serena Williams in a cartoon.

Anyone today can clearly see Naomi as a woman of color, but what happens when historical figures are whitewashed and most people are not educated about the truth? Compared to the whitewashing of history that people of color contend with normally, the change of one character is minor in comparison.

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[–] kuku (3510) 6 years ago

Recently, tennis player Naomi Osaka who is half Japanese and half Haitian had her skin changed from brown to white and her features changed to make her look white by a sponsor.

Actually, they've drawn her as any standard anime character. Anime characters use to have a pale skin, which is a Japanese thing, not related with western white people. Japanese people don't see anime characters as caucasian, but as Japanese.

Funny thing: this is a half Japanese woman who is depicted as an Anime Japanese character, but someway they manage to blame evil nazi white race, just because.

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[–] Stratego (30496) 6 years ago

In anime you can't really see the difference between white and Asian people because of the animation style. Even Japanese character have blond hair and blue eyes.

Everybody's ignoring that that guy doesn't even look like Nishikori either!

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[–] kuku (3510) 6 years ago

Indeed, if she wasn't drawn the same way the other characters in the advert (which means: standard anime) that would have been called out as racism, saying that she wouldn't be drawn as a common Japanese anime character because she was only half Japanese.

Damn if you do, damn if you don't...

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

1) There are black anime characters:
https://www.ranker.com/list/best-black-anime-characters/ranker-anime

2) Naomi Osaka is a real person, therefore the anime needed to resemble her.
Here's Obama:
https://66.media.tumblr.com/167c4642ae4f6c34e736c4ce756b65b2/tumblr_oeubjsdDxU1r279eno1_500.png

Sasha Obama:
https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/intermediary/f/3c1ccfde-6e5e-4fd4-b916-b742af539010/dbg470g-bff961d4-f97c-4a0a-b190-e052136476f6.jpg/v1/fill/w_786,h_1017,q_70,strp/sasha_obama_anime_character_art_by_jcling_dbg470g-pre.jpg

Michael and Janet Jackson:
http://s2.narvii.com/image/wpeerh4exly4x2coxt3zhrsfd2iqjdrq_hq.jpg

I agree with the Nissan spokesman who admitted a lack of racial sensitivity.

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[–] kuku (3510) 6 years ago

● There are black anime characters

Did you realize that half of the anime characters in that list look white?

● Naomi Osaka is a real person, therefore the anime needed to resemble her.

Yeap. Because you said so. What's the plan if Japanese cartoonists don't obey? Another Hiroshima?

● Michael and Janet Jackson

Look your link. Michael Jackson looks white. Janet Jackson looks similar to some white chick with a tan.

● Sasha Obama

Well, here you got it. She looks black. One little problem, though: that's not a Japanese cartoon, it's an american one.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

"What's the plan if Japanese cartoonists don't obey?"
We saw the result. Controversy, damaged image and an apology.

Obviously, my links show there is something other than a "standard" in anime which they should have done.

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[–] kuku (3510) 6 years ago

In a nutshell:

Some Japanese cartoonists draw a Japanese person in the way Japanese cartoonists draw standard Anime characters that represent Japanese people.

They even drew her without any clear ethnic feature, which means they consider her as Japanese (even when she's only half Japanese).

But that doesn't fit with how some Western White Guys think they should drawn that person. Because, obviously Western White Guys are the ones to decide how Japanese cartoonists should draw Japanese people.

So the company apologize, which is logical since western media and western social networks are controlled by SJWs, and that's a smart choice from a business point of view.

Now, wonder why Asian countries are closing the doors to western people more and more.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

Don't confuse drawing with color. I don't believe the problem is with the drawing which resembles her a little. In the anime, her hair has a wave pattern and her eyes slope downward like they do in real life.

The main problem is using a white skin tone instead of brown.

The advertisers could have easily thought that running an ad with a black woman would represent a problem in homogeneous Japan which would explain why they made her skin color white.

BTW, it goes beyond anime since another drawing showed her with blond hair and white skin.

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[–] kuku (3510) 6 years ago

The main problem is using a white skin tone instead of brown

So Japanese cartoonists have created a style that represent Japanese characters, but here we have a Western White Guy that decides that the color used to represent the skin of a Japanese character in a Japanese genre is not only a problem, but THE main problem.

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[–] Keelai (34857) 6 years ago

You're rehashing the same arguments.

"Japanese characters"
Obviously, Naomi Osaka isn't a "character". She's a living human being.

"Japanese"
Miss Osaka is Haitian-Japanese.

"cartoonists"
You fail to understand the art profession. Cartoonist Takeshi Konomi was hired by Nissin to help sell a product, therefore he was working as a commercial artist. The style he used was anime, but he was still employed in the field of commercial art to make money for his client.

He would have shown the advertising agency and the client (Nissin) his artwork at each step from conception to completion for approval by the client. That means the client saw his roughs and comps through storyboard sketches long before the finished product and the client approved of them or made adjustments.

In other words, the decision to go forward with a racist depiction of Miss Osaka would have been from the client - not from Mr. Konomi.

That is why the apology came from Nissin instead of Mr. Konomi.

Furthermore, you fail to understand that both tennis players, Naomi Osaka and Kei Nishikori were paid money in order to have their likenesses represented in the commercial. It's not possible to achieve that without representing Miss Osaka's skin tone accurately. Again, the final decision in how Miss Osaka was represented came from Nissin - not the cartoonist.

Btw, Mr. Konomi has and does depict brown skin tones in his work. If you knew his work, then you would know that information.

"Western White Guy"
I don't know who this mythical "Western White Guy" is since there's no mention of him in my linked article. I know Miss Osaka complained about her depiction in the ad and asked them to remove it from youtube.

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