Did they deserve it?



The middle class yuppies in their 4x4 had it coming. It wasn't their beach, it was the kids', and the kids had every right to be pi**ed-off with the invaders who thought they could just turn up and demand they turn their music down.

It was the yuppie bloke that started all the trouble by confronting them, when all the kids had done was turn up at their favourite place with their bikes and dogs to hang out.

The kids were the locals, the yuppies were the invaders. The escalation was entirely the result of the yuppie trying to show off to his girlfriend by being macho. The moment he touched the volume control was the moment he declared war - which is always a bad idea if you're a) on someone else's territory and b) outnumbered.

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I am not sure if the OP was really serious in his post. But if the young hoods were asked to defend what they did to the couple, they would have used precisely the same arguments that the OP had made as the justification.

Thus the original post at least helped to explain why Steve and Jenny got into trouble. To answer quickly the question raised in the title, I don’t think anyone “deserved” to be tortured and killed, but Steve had behaved in such an idiotic manner that the tragic outcome was at least partly of his own making.

We see in the film a classic example of class conflict and clash between two cultures (which indeed could occur within the same country). Steve and Jenny were middle-class, educated, and had reasonably good jobs. They undoubtedly felt themselves superior to the people in that neighborhood. They probably had a sheltered life so far. By contrast, the local youths came from relatively poor families and their parents had low levels of education and thus were caught in dead-end jobs. As the OP suggested, Steve and Jenny – just like the developers that were about to come in to build condominiums and thus destroy the natural scenery – were looked upon by the young hoods as “invaders”. Steve’s biggest mistake was in expecting the local youths to think and behave in the same way he did. In fact their standards and values – and especially their concepts of right and wrong – were so different that they inevitably came into conflict. To Steve, the kids were wrong in making excessive noise and disturbing other people in a public place. To the youths, since a “public place” by definition belongs to nobody, they were free to do anything they wanted. When Steve complained about their noise, they regarded it as harassment. When he called Brett a dick and turned off the music himself, it was indeed regarded as a “declaration of war”.

I at least share the OP’s dislike of the Steve character. He was a wimp who tried to act macho. But when the situation began to get out of control, he chickened out and acted like the coward he actually was.

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Agree with your analysis 100% except the last bit. He didn't "chicken out", he was badly outnumbered. You don't really expect he was going to "cut his losses" by letting them keep his car, phone and wallet do you?

My fiancee and I act a little like Steve and Jenny when we go to lower socio-economic areas on cheap holidays, cheeky looks to each other, raised eyebrows that sort of thing, however the last thing I would do is provoke one of the locals, let alone a gang of them.

That being said, say the stereo episode never happened, and skip straight to the car being stolen and go from there. It all falls apart here, because you can't argue he and his girlfriend weren't trust unfairly into a horrible situation with a pack of hoods with no regard for the law, for consequences, and ultimately for human life.

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'....That being said, say the stereo episode never happened, and skip straight to the car being stolen and go from there....'

That's ridiculous - you can't simply strike out the genesis of the problem and pretend it started at a later point! The yuppies started the confrontation, and reaped the whirlwind - end of!

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I totally agree with OP. Just the other day I was walking down one of my streets (I've claimed about 60 in this city) and this guy had the nerve to ask me not to piss on one of my lawns. Not only that, but he had just come out of one of my houses without permission! I almost didn't know how to react to his rudeness. My instincts soon kicked in and I took a running leap at the man, knocking him back into my house. From there I proceeded to beat him with my new golf clubs. Well, the clubs looked new anyway.

What's really messed up is some *beep* from my police station actually arrested me! When I explained that the man was in my house, on my street, trying to tell me what to do, the officer couldn't understand that you don't need to legally own property, merely living near it or simply claiming it to be yours is how we function as a society.

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Oh wow! I hope you're trolling.

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As soon as those jag-off's caused the stabbing and killing of the dog, they deserved it. I would have done the same thing. The dog was Brett's friend and family member. The yuppies were responsible. The youths were showing them whose boss and avenging the dog's death. I would have done the same.

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I hope you're just another IMDB troll. If not, you should be dropped off at the local SPCA and gassed along with the other dumb animals nobody wants.

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"I would have done the same."

No, you wouldn't have.

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No they didn't dersevere it! What kind of stupid question is this? I guess every board gets these morons. Did you watch the movie?

Even if he was a yuppie doesn't mean he deserved to die. I found his approach to them quite respectful. They changed it all by stealing his Jeep and clearly not being willing to give it back.

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His approach was not so "respectful". He told the kids that the noise disturbed his girlfriend, told them "don't be dicks" and even turned off the music himself! Even if they were college students and not young hoods, that would certainly have led to a confrontation.

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@whatsupyo.I love animals and especially dogs but it was a accident.I'm not saying just because Steve didn't mean to kill my dog I wouldn't be upset.However I wouldn't kill him for it.

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I found the boyfriend to be an arrogant dickweed. That type of prick who feels he owns the whole road.

Then he bugs the kids over their music, trying to act like the big man to impress his girlfriend.

He was a jerk, who provoked the whole ugly incident.

I did feel sympathy for the girl.

All the yuppie couple had to do was to move to another area on the beach, away from the kids.

But his pride wouldn't allow that. He had to be the Almighty Alpha Male in front of his girl.






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Spot on - although I have no idea what a dickweed is.


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You all apparently have never been to New York, or been around really arrogant people in general. He was not overtly rude to them. He tried being nice, they didn't respond. He tried reasoning with them on their level, they didn't respond. He could have been smarter about it, yes. His mistakes escalated, but they were just that, mistakes, nothing with malicious intent towards the kids.

The question at hand is whether they deserved it, and you are an IDIOT if you think they deserved it.



Check out my list, always looking for good films and constructive feedback.

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Wow this is the most successful troll thread I've seen in a long time well done Michael you got all these posters to feed you well done.

Give me attention.
Flash.
Give me adoration.
Flash.
Give me a break.
Flash.

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It is certainly true that there are a significant number of posters incapable of appreciating the subtleties of the film maker's art in this instance, and of understanding humans' natural tendency to tribal, territorial behaviour. I'm guessing you fall into this category, as you are unable to spell my name correctly (despite it being written very clearly right in front of you as you typed your response), and your inability to use even the most basic punctuation in constructing your response.

But don't feel too bad; there's a poster earlier in the thread who shares your lack of comprehension (and confuses the OUP with something called the 'Oxford Press') who says he's a product of an Ivy League college - so clearly you're in good company....

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Lol, you guys are getting trolled hard. That first post was obviously intended to get people steamed. Pity the OP has to get his jollies like this. "Look at me, Pay attention to me."

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Really guys? You really side with the kids? No wonder we kicked your a$$ in the revolution. Too easy when you have your heads up your bums chaps. Cheerio.

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I really hope you were joking. No way in hell they deserved any on the things those little *beep* did to them. Scum like those kids should be dragged through the streets and hanged to make examples of. People who think that any body has it coming for ASKING for music to be turned down are why this world is in such bad shape. And the rest of the family was just as bad or worse.

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So someone deserved to be tortured and murdered for asking someone to turn the music down?

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michaeldecker is probably a chav, let him get on with it
'..Well in that case it looks like it tastes great.'

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The couple took a vacation to a lake in the woods, not the ghetto. The only people who think there are "territories" in a legalized society are either adolescents or blue collar trash with low IQs, like the people in this movie.

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Humans are territorial by nature, and we all have territories we are prepared to defend. Yours might be your own bedroom, or it might extend to your front door, or your yard or garden. If you live in a gated community then you collectively defend your neighbourhood from undesired outsiders.

I could give you a hundred more examples, but you get the point (or, more likely, you won't...)

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That's why we have property rights. All of those things that you mentioned are legalized pieces of property. And just because something's "natural" doesn't mean it's right... assuming so is a naturalistic fallacy. Darwin theorized evolution by natural selection, but that didn't justify Social Darwinism in the late 19th century. The adolescents didn't own the lake, in fact they lived pretty far from it. They weren't defending their home, they were resentful because they had crappy lives compared to the couple at the lake and the yuppies moving into the new community. Just because it was their "hang-out spot" growing up didn't mean that they had a right to harass other people who went there. This movie took place in suburban Britain, not some inner city ghetto or post-apocalyptic Australia.

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I was right. Straight over your head.

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Nope, not at all. I explained why human nature isn't a justification for poor behavior, which was the justification for your argument. Your argument sounds like something a middle schooler would say, so it wouldn't be over anyone's head. You only think you're clever because you don't normally talk to well-educated people. I'm inferring from your last reply that you either (a) have nothing left to argue, or (b) didn't actually understand the point I made in my last reply. But maybe you'll prove me wrong by actually having something insightful to say.

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'I explained why human nature isn't a justification for poor behavior, which was the justification for your argument'


You can explain all you want, but you've missed the point - and you're arguing a different issue.

As for your claim to be well-educated? Mmmm..... you've used the word 'justification' twice, rather clumsily, in one sentence. Then you end that sentence with 'your argument' and start the next sentence with the same 'your argument'. Then instead of the correct form 'make an argument' you crudely conjuct 'say' with 'argument', and then you include a redundant 'actually'. All of which makes reading your replies quite tiresome. And, if I may say so, demonstrates a fairly low standard of English.

So you're probably right in claiming that I'm not talking to a well-educated person (I'll ignore your further error in claiming to be 'talking', when in fact our communication has been entirely non-verbal).

And I hope you'll understand that I must excuse myself, as it's Friday night and I have people to go and laugh with and beers to purchase (or it may turn out to be the other way around).

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(1) The use of the word "justification" twice was intentional, to stress that my reply was a direct response to your argument. Redundancy aside, it's grammatically correct, as is using "your argument" and "actually" two sentences in a row. It sounds fine, and I'm not submitting this to the Oxford Press.

(2) I will admit that "your argument... middle schooler would say" is poor grammar. I'll make sure to write a better sentence the next time I insult you.

(3) When I mentioned "talking", I was referring to your conversations outside of any online forums. You also aren't ignoring it if you mention it in your reply.

(4) I'm a medical student who graduated summa cum laude from an Ivy League University, so yeah, I'm fairly well-educated.

(5) Wow, I really thought that you were under 18 after your last response, but I guess not. Unless you have a fake ID or your friends are buying.

(6) You still haven't explained how I've missed the point or how we're arguing two separate issues. The title of this thread is "Did they deserve it?". You said that they did because people are territorial, and I said that that's no justification. It might be a reason, but it's not an excuse.

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[deleted]


You can explain all you want, but you've missed the point - you're arguing with a troll.
FTFY

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It is always funny when some idiot tries to put someone down but only succeeds in puting themself down. Non-verbal? Try again. Everything on this board is verbal communication.

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You make me sick. I would puke on you and then bash your head in because you steal my food.

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"Humans are territorial by nature, and we all have territories we are prepared to defend. Yours might be your own bedroom, or it might extend to your front door, or your yard or garden. If you live in a gated community then you collectively defend your neighbourhood from undesired outsiders."

Territorial by nature? Maybe old geezers around their lawn because they have little to keep them busy or live for. But definitely not high school kids. And if you really are territorial, then you have to lay off the steroids mike. You are sounding like a raging (literally now) lunatic.

So you would fight someone if they told you to quiet down(if you were being beligerantly loud) at your own hang out spot? Are you really that primitive? Humans have morals, inbred morals, humans are domesticized beings, not animals. What you are talking about is animal-like action. Do we still hunt for food, live outside, and .

I'm really wondering if you are just crazy or a flat out narcissistic territorial primitive person.

"More Special!!!"

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Two argumentative fallacies you just used:

Naturalistic Fallacy:

(1) Feeling envy is only natural.
Therefore:
(2) There’s nothing wrong with feeling envy.

Link: http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevance/naturalistic/


Slippery Slope Fallacy:

(1) Protecting a lake
Therefore:
(2) The same concept as protecting a bedroom


http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/slippery-slope/




"Some day you will be old enough to start reading fairy tales again." - C.S.Lewis

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I'd forgotten all about this thread and the lengthy queue of tiresome people who misunderstood the point. And did you type all that lot out on your own, or just copy and paste?

Also - you looked in the wrong bit of Wikipedia; this isn't about how to conduct an argument, it's about social Darwinism. Try arguing against *that* in the context of this film (you'll have to go and do some research first), rather than parroting something you read on the internet.....


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hahaha.... you just copied and pasted:

www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22For+example%2C+assuming+Atheism+is+the+only+alternative+to+Fundamentalism%22

Tch tch.... lazy mind, lazy thinking......


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So they deserved to die because the guy touched his radio? Glad most people don't agree with your logic.

I hate IMDb sometimes! They are never any when you need it.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

I know, somebody reserve IP address this guy and get his ass some psychiatric help.

"More Special!!!"

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