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She's definitely messianic, but when has she indiscriminately slaughtered innocents? This argument that it was well presaged is nonsense.
We could look at Tyrion. Strangled a whore, murdered his father on the toilet, lit conscripts on fire. Varys attempted to poison Dany when she was a child (and later on in this episode). And those are the good guys. There wasn't anything preparing people for this kind of curb-stomp. The bells were ringing, men had dropped their arms.
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The Tarleys tried to kill her and her men. We accept their actions because it was war, and so they were offered an option to avoid their fate. They declined.
The episode with the slaves killing their masters is hazy. From what I recall, she was genuinely concerned for those oppressed. I don't recall if she anticipated the consequences of her actions, but I doubt she celebrated the violence and carnage.
After the episode, the showrunners said maybe she doesn't turn her dragon into a WMD if she's loved in the north, or loved by Jon, and so on. One could always argue for rapid onset madness. We're typically surprised when someone shoots up a school (99.9% of other kids who showed the same signs do not become mass killers).
Martin long ago said one character who was a good guy would turn bad, and she always the number one suspect, so I'm not shocked. But I don't think it was properly set up. Even at the beginning of the episode, Varys says he's not sure how her coin has landed.
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Yeah, and in a boxing match, one combatant should be brought up on charges of initiating violence. The Targaryen children were shuttled off to the easy because of orders to have them killed. Both sides were prepared for that battle; there were even first generation anti-dragon balistas.
Not to get technical, but the arguments in this thread suggesting the signs were all there are retarded. Virtually every character is morally compromised, but that doesn't mean atrocities of this type and on this scale were entirely predictable. In addition to what was mentioned earlier about Tyrion and Varys... The Hound has done his share of killing. Jorah Mormant took slaves (and facilitated the assassination of a child). Jaime pushed a kid out a window and maybe raped his sister (among other things).
Someone earlier said people could make excuses for Daenerys. Absolutely. What excuses can be made now? There's almost no moral ambiguity. The person below who imagines a scenario where Euron kills one of the dragons, which sets Dany off, is far more believable.
That's what is great about the Dany character. There is always excuses for her past violent behavior so it doesn't appear out of the ordinary so she has support.
"But I don't think it was properly set up."
Someone suggested a different setup. Instead of the dragon being killed by the weapons on the ship, she and Jon ride both dragons and take out much of Cersei's defenses. The bells ring for surrender and Dany is satisfied until Euron fires an arrow at Jon's dragon from a hidden place. Dany sees her dragon and Jon die and that propels her attack on the citizens.
She still wants to rule with fear, but her present behavior isn't as jarring.
Lol wtf? That sounds awful. Thank god the show writers didn’t go that route.
sharewell i thought she had morals, the actress sure fooled me
shareThe only thing that held her back was her counselors but once she lost trust in them it was back to slaughtering as she did the Masters.
sharePeople have grown strong personal attachments to their favorite characters and have ran through scenarios, theories, plot lines, in their head so many times, we are now seeing these fans break because things aren't turning out the way they wanted. It's pretty pathetic.
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Imagine thinking Dany's madness came out of nowhere lmao.
shareThere were some bad decisions made in this episode. Jaime and Cersei getting defeated by rocks was the big one. Euron hanging around to have a one on one with Jaime was another. Arya hanging around just to look like she died but oh no she didn't. And somehow crossbows got nerfed after episode 4. And one Drogon is all it takes to take out any army.
But overall I agree. While Dany's turn to the dark side was a bit quick it wasn't completely out of the blue like people are saying. It really needed an extra episode to build it up better though. Or at least have one of the arrows hurt Drogon without injuring it. Or have Dany herself get struck. Anything would've worked. But instead the writers wanted to have their "Surprise! She's the Mad Queen" moment. It worked for me so I can't complain.
It wasn't much of a surprise what she was gonna do, especially after last episode. In this episode they wanted to remove all ambiguity about it. She had a choice and she chose to burn everything. Most likely because that's what it would take for Jon to turn against her.
shareI can agree with that. I think it could have used an extra episode to build it up more but considering some of the other poor decisions in the episode it made it rather enjoyable seeing Dany go full Mad Queen.
shareThey’ve built up her decent for 7 seasons and hit us over the head with it in all of season 8. The North hates her and she resents them for it, she loses everyone close to her. Jorah dead, Miss Sunday dead, Varys turns on her, Tyrion betrays her, Jon rejects her love, she loses her 2 children. You bet your ass that would make someone snap. To say her decent into madness is rushed is absolutely outrageous.
shareIts not rushed because of her character. Its rushed because of the lack of episodes. How long did it take for "Jorah dead, Miss Sunday dead, Varys turns on her, Tyrion betrays her, Jon rejects her love, she loses her 2 children" to happen? It was almost instant.
But thats D&D for ya. Ever since they've had no Martin material to draw from they've had to wing it.
I agree, I have no idea why the episode count has been slashed these last two seasons. Is it the unsustainable cost of each episode?
Good question. I have no idea but they must be extremely expensive at this point. I guess it comes down to however many HBO subscriptions the show is netting for them. Its possible that it isn't sustainable any more but I really don't know.
shareYes. Many of the signs WERE present (see Season 2 when she threatens to burn Qarth to the ground), but it seems like the show has had too much to wrap up and not enough time to do it. I have absolutely no problem with her going Mad Queen, but the way it's been handled has been poor. Maybe if they had done all 10 episodes in Seasons 7-8, it would have been better -- they could have included a little more of her descent. Instead, we get seven seasons of "I'm not my father. I want to be a good person. I want to know how to rule justly" and in one episode, "I'm going to burn you all."
BUT, I'd also like to point out that a lot of what she does that many of the characters fault her for, and we the audience point to her eventually going mad -- burning people alive, not grieving for her brother, sacking cities -- have been done by other characters too. Stannis has his brother-in-law and his daughter burned alive. Tywin watches his grandson die with an almost clinical detachment. Both men sack Kings Landing. Were they mad too?
I will take what is mine with fire and blood.
Was anyone ever really expecting her to be the “good guy”?
I'm glad someone else sees it. Her behavior this season is a logical progression of her own ego and mania and her father's.
shareAlways saw this coming.
shareA lot of people including me have been saying she will end up as the Mad Queen just like her father back in season 4.
shareI don't get them either. She has always seen things in a very black or white way. Her armies are savages as well so she has to show power at all times to keep them on side. Without her dragons or dragon now she would be nothing.
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