I felt that between the torture by Ramsay, helping Sansa escape, and rescuing his sister ... he was already pretty redeemed.
Theon suicidally charging the Night’s King after Bran calls him “a good man” felt more like the writers not knowing how to tie a bow on his story.
I think fighting Euron (who he ran away from in fear) would have been a better way to end it, but I’m assuming his sister will be doing that...
Euron will be minced meat in the the next one or two episodes...Theon went for the NK and we all saw how it ended up
good ending for a fine, always interesting character
That line "Theon. You are a good man. Thank you" broke my heart. He needed that because despite all the awful things he did in the earlier seasons his whole story has always been about seeking the approval of others.
All those who hate on Theon for his mutiny of Winterfell in Season Two forget that as a child he'd been snatched from his family and made Ned Stark's ward/hostage. He was in essence a prisoner of war, and so, even if he had been treated well by the Starks they were not his kin and they were not, at that stage, the people he felt a true affinity to.
I just briefly came across an article from some opinionated, unforgiving dipshit who said that Theon 'will never get redemption' which I find staggering, after he helped rescue Sansa, he rescued his sister, and he defended Bran to his death.
Yes, Theon is redeemed. How the hell can anyone think otherwise?
I enjoyed the Theon character, he had a major storyline but as a royal and well treated hostage he clearly misbehaved...He really did not want for anything in Winterfell, he was afforded all of the perks a royal prisoner would be
Theon screwed up and that's how his tale ended
He was weak
Yes, but he was still a prisoner, estranged from his own family (he didn't even recognise his own sister when he returned to the Iron Islands), and a constant reminder to the Greyjoys of their failed rebellion.
Moreover, when he returned home, he went with honest and relatively noble intentions, that were sadly corrupted by his father, and even his sister, who everyone seems to give a pass.
Theon's family was awful, a bunch of scuttling crabs on a wind tossed rock
Theon was a big dummy for not eating supper in Ned's great hall and drinkng wine every night and behaving himself...acting a proper captive-son
AND defending the place!
Theon was a big dummy
They were his family Shogun, his blood, and he was estranged from them as a child. He had no clue what they were like.
But funny how you say that his family are so awful and yet everyone seems to adore Yara.
He was a fool, c'mon Malko
They gave him a horse and armor in Winterfell, he only had to consult the Maester of Winterfell about how crappy his family was
Yes, he was a fool.
That's why this topic is about his redemption.
If he had always been aces there would be no need to use the word, would there?
His 'redemption' had nothing to do with his hostage lifestyle, that was a reasonable state of affairs in Westeros
He was given into being a hostage to stop a war his landed family started and completely betrayed that agreement
Theon had it his coming
Yara is another matter
She's a baddas
Yara, 'the badass', went along with her shithead father for years. But she's cool... *eyeroll*
And I never said that Theon's redemption (why the inverted commas?) had anything to do with being a hostage, but I am saying that it led to him being made to feel that he'd dishonoured his family, by both Balon and wonderful, perfect, unimpeachable, 'badass' Yara, thus leading to his foolish decision to take Winterfell.
By the way, all the terrible things that ended up happening in Winterfell, save for the deaths of the two farmboys and Rodrik Cassel, would have happened anyway, thanks to the real irredeemable shitheads, the Boltons.
Yara went along with Ironborn culture, she is a born raider, nevermind her crummy dad
A royal hostage has a duty to adhere to the truce...Theon betrayed the agreement and engaged in murder in his host's lands
He was a disgrace, but again, a great character in the story
Why has a royal hostage have a greater duty than anyone else in this deal?
If anything, a royal hostage has more reason to take umbrage at being used as a pawn.
did you forget about the two farm boys?
shareOh FFS.
This is Game of Thrones. Not The Care Bears. Everyone has blood on their hands. Even Jon has executed a child.
You mean the "child" who led him into an ambush and took his turn stabbing him in the chest? Plus I think he was 16 or 17 years old, which would be considered an adult.
shareHe looked no more than 13 to me.
But Jon still had a choice. I understand why he killed Olly, just as I understand why Olly (who joined The Nights Watch specifically to defend The Wall from the very people who killed his family!) 'killed' John.
He was about that age when the show first started, 12 or 13. If I remember correctly he was at Castle Black from such an early age because his whole village was destroyed by wildlings and he was the sole survivor found by the Night's Watch (something along those lines). That's why he hated wildlings so much.
But they didn't kill Jon until the end of season 5. If Olly had reached the age of majority, which is 16, it would be the equivalent of an 18-year-old committing a crime in our culture. They're tried as adults. Jon couldn't have justified sparing him while hanging the others.
Yeah, this is GOT, which makes being a well-treated ward of the Starks a pretty good deal.
I'd rather be that than a dead farm boy killed for such a silly reason.
Look at you, so humane crying over two farmboys who were killed six seasons ago!
Humanity is the ability to forgive and move on, rather than hold a person's worst mistakes agsinst them for the rest of their lives.
And you who write off this little indiscretion of his while defending his mutiny on the basis of broken family ties. Those two boys lost their family ties forever -- for nothing.
shareI'm not defending his actions killing those two boys.* But he's a changed man.
The word 'redemption' wouldn't mean anything if he'd always been an upstanding hero.
* And although this is NOT a defence, I doubt he truly wanted to kill those boys, but felt pressure to do so by the hardass bastards among the Iron Islanders.
I just brought up a damning fact while you were busy making excuses for his mutiny. Yes, redemption from something -- so no need to make those excuses. We can call his mutiny what it is: a betrayal. We can mention that he bailed on his sister once before saving her. We can say he killed two innocent boys for nothing but to save face. If it's redemption, we can look at all the bad and call it bad rather than airbrushing betrayal -- or waving off two farm boy deaths as though they're misdemeanors simply b/c it's GOT world.
shareAlys Karstark was with Theon in the Godswood. She's a minor character but I'm guessing she dies defending Bran? Does she get no points for not killing 2 innocent kids? Theon is redeemed as one can be after commiting some horrific crimes.
shareThey were surrounded by the Night King's soldiers. Theon knew he couldn't actually kill him, but the wights weren't just going to stand aside and let him walk away either. He was screwed. So he chose to go out defiantly, charging the Night King and then staring into his eyes, refusing to yield until he fell. Would've liked to see him fight Euron but (as you said) his sister can handle getting revenge for both of them.
shareOf course he is redeemed.
Everyone else has already tackled the psychology of what made Theon such a despicable character at the start of the show but no other character has suffered so much as a consequence of their actions or tried any harder to set right his past wrongs.
I'm glad that Sansa, Bran and even Jon helped him feel welcome and that he belonged before his final sacrifice .
And, really, there wasn't much choice at the end. He was done no matter what but elected to give it one last college try and keep the NK at a distance. Otherwise they would've surrounded both he and Bran within seconds.
BohemianRoxie said what I wanted to say, and said it much better.
Theon was one of the more fascinating characters on the show, not a one trick pony. His need for approval, esp. from his father, hit very hard and very close to home for many.
No one suffered like him ... both physically and psychologically.
I believe he was redeemed.
Spot on RC (I think I've been saying something similar to you and bohemianroxie, haven't I?)
Like you say, Theon wasn't a two-dimensional character. He had a lot going on.
When we first meet him, he's a smarmy, smug, unlikeable, sycophantic jerk, but season by season he gradually earns our sympathies. Like you say, not only is he one of the characters who undergoes the worst abuses throughout the course of the show, he's also tormented from the start by his desire to win other people's approval, whether it's Robb, his toxic father, Yara, or eventually the people of Winterfell including Sansa, who shows him the compassion he desperately needs, and Bran, who finally validates him as a human-being and thus gives him the 'permission' to die with honour.
Still I think he had some choice. He could have returned to the Iron Islands with Yara, who did show him unconditional love, as his sibling, yet he chose to be part of something bigger and truly redeem himself to the people he'd most greviously betrayed.
I can't redeem anyone that would burn two children alive just to save face. But he came as close as one could I suppose.
share