Wow, It did not ring true to his character. I do not see him pathetically begging like he did. I imagine he would have kept his composure a d gone out refusing to show any weakness. For a man who has had such control over everything, went out in such a weak way, and not a poetic weak like Tywin going out while on the toilet.
shareHe was shocked that Sansa was willing to spill all the secrets, because by telling she implicated herself in so many ways. She did lie to the lords of the Vale, covered up his murder of Lysa, and she's going to have some explaining to do to keep the alliance alive and the Arryn armies around.
Littlefinger did make one major miscalculation. When Sansa accused him of killing Lysa, he admitted it, presumably because he thought that he could control her even then. If he'd denied it and gotten the knights of the Vale to defend him, he might have made it out of Winterfell alive. I presume that's why Sansa had gone back to confiding in him and using him as a sounding board, to give him a false sense of control. She did play it well, she manipulated him AND she was so aggressive that everyone admires her for spilling on all the dirty stuff she was involved in, they're not going to make her pay for any of it. Well played, girl!
I don't see it as out of character at all. We haven't seen Littlefinger display weakness before now, but that's only because he's such a skilled manipulator, he's thus far managed to avoid being caught in a position of weakness. By his own admission, he was ineffectual at direct confrontation -- when he tried to fight for Catelyn Stark as a young man, he lost. So he learned to get what he wants through scheming and manipulation, and it worked for him, since he was smarter than almost everyone else.
But all his schemes are undone, because they all depended on his being able to manipulate people, and that, in turn, depended on his being able to dig up dirt on people, discover secrets, keep secrets, keep people in the dark, etc., use information selectively to manipulate people by controlling what they know and what they think. But that doesn't work anymore if all the secrets are revealed. And Bran has the ability to see almost anything. Once he discovers a thing might have happened, he can go back and observe it, and learn the truth. This enables him to discover everything that is hidden, and reveal it to others, and it takes away all of Littlefinger's power.
So once Littlefinger is robbed of the source of his power, he shows his true weakness and lack of courage, which was part of his nature all along. I don't find it out of character for him at all. Quite the contrary, I think it revealed his true character, the one his intelligence and ruthlessness enabled him to keep hidden up to now.
I completely agree with Darren's analysis.
shareI totally agree with this. We finally got to see the true Lord Baelish...the little, whiny weasel that he is.
shareAnd Bran has the ability to see almost anything. Once he discovers a thing might have happened, he can go back and observe it, and learn the truth. This enables him to discover everything that is hidden, and reveal it to others, and it takes away all of Littlefinger's power.
Bran may have gone back to see Littlefinger's betrayal of Ned right there and then -- he was able to go back and view Rhaegar and Lyanna's secret wedding instantly upon request, after all -- but I rather got the impression that his trial had been set up in advance, and Sansa had already got Bran to go look at Littlefinger holding the knife to Ned's throat before the assembly had ever been called, so that the revelations were all prepared in advance.
shareTrue enough, they would want the case for the prosecution of a slimy little weasel like Littlefinger to be prepared as carefully as possible.
Bran _definitely_ went back and saw Littlefinger's betrayal – he cited the words that Littlefinger used back then ("I did warn you not the trust me.")
And of course he did it before the trial began, otherwise his eyes would’ve gone blank during the trial.
He knew he was screwed, this was completely different behavior from how he acted when he met Sansa again last season and told her she could let Brienne kill him if she wanted.
shareThis.
shareyeah LF would not ever beg for mercy, at least the book version would not. Pretty sure he will go out with his dignity intact if hes ever get outplayed.
shareI agree with Darren on thus. Little finger has no sense of honor, only a sense of how to use others' honor against them. Both book and show Littlefinger lack a sense of vision and foundation to their manipulations, and this starves their character - he knows he wants power and to revenge himself on those who have ridiculed him, but after he would have achieved his goal, what then? What is his vision for the power in his hands, other than to play the people around him?
Dany absorbed a goal (whether she fulfills it is another story). Even Cersei has some kind of ambition for what she wants after consolidating power. They're fighting for the crown because they have a goal. Littlefinger had only the game. So when his moment of truth arrived, there was nothing to hold him up. Compare this with the resurrection of Theon in this episode. Also compare with how Tyrion and Jamie were able to basically dare death in the face, and how death gave them their due.
I took it more to do with the three Starks than littlefinger.
The three of them working together were a pack and littlefinger was their prey.
That's actually a great way of putting it. I think you were channeling GRRM there.
shareYeah because politically and in terms of the game killing him the way they did was the most stupid thing to do.
Sure no one will mess with them again to their faces but even Twyin knew he had to give Tyrion a show trial
Because really what was the evidence Bran's visions? even tho it was all true it may put doubt into the heads of some of the northern houses not to trust what isis going on.
True. It did occur to me at the time that all Littlefinger had to do was ask Bran where he was getting his information, and that would seriously hurt their case.
shareYeah or if Littlefinger actually was trusted by the other houses or even if one of the other houses just wanted to make sure they weren't railroading someone who could be innocent.
It was satisfying but could have easily blown up in Sansa's face.
they did give him a show trial. The main room with all the witnesses was the trial. Sansa asked him how he pleaded. He was given a chance to speak when he asked to. He wasn't interrupted;if he had been innocent, they gave him space to say it. Because he knew they knew he wasn't, he needed a plausible lie. They did not give him time for that. In the end, he basically confessed, saying he acted out of love for Catelyn and Sansa. He had no rejoinder to Sansa's observation that his love led to betrayal. People all around heard him. It was likely recorded and stored in the archives. Sansa gave him a better chance than Tywin and Cersei gave to Tyrion.
shareThat wasn't a trial it was an ambush. Which was very satisfactory to watch I admit. But it was a trap sprung by Sansa on littlefinger. Tyrion knew he was going to trial and what the outcome would be. Also Tyrion's trial at least had the trappings of a real trial - 3 judges and witnesses called.
There was no hope for Tyrion at his trial but from the outside it looked like a trial. When recorded it will look like a show trial but it will be a trial in accordance to the laws of the Red Keep.
For littlefinger without proof outside the 3 Starks who were working as one to offbalance and confuse their victim it looks like Sansa, Bran and Arya were judge, jury, prosecution and executioner. That is not a trial.
Heh. Applying 20th Century Western legal standards to medieval-era fantasy realms?
There are apparently no lawyers anywhere in Westeros, let alone the North. Justice is usually simply a ruling of the local authority. Remember the trial Ned Stark gave to the Night Watch deserter? That would be typical. This actually was much more of a trial than most people would have received, with Baelish allowed to speak freely and address his accusers directly. And he admitted several death penalty offenses.
Littlefinger isn't a deserter from the Night's Watch (though there would be a record for by the way)
We had Tywin go through the motions of getting judges (Oberyn). Cat goes through the motions of taking Tyrion to the Vale to face Lysa. Both times Tyrion was knew what was happening.
As I said it isn't simply about comparing Western legal standards, it is about how easy if the houses felt like it they could turn because they fell their rulers are acting on a whim.
If this isn't the case then Robert's rebellion wouldn't have gotten off the ground as Rickon and Brandon Stark's deaths wouldn't have outraged anyone because as King, Aerys was within his rights to pick wildfire as his champion.
Right, which is why Sansa had a court full of nobles including Vale knights to observe the proceedings. In the North, Sansa is the acting queen and therefore the judge whose authority is supreme, but having the nobles present ensures that there will be no misunderstanding among the clans.
shareWhich if Yohn Royce had asked for some proof before Littlefinger begged then it could have backfired in Sansa's face.
Because the majority of the evidence against Littlefinger was from Bran - Bran who is spaced out most of the time.
If Royce had spoken up for Littlefinger just as a matter of honour then Sansa and the rest of co may have not gone her way as Sansa would have had to say most of the evidence was from Bran.
As for Sansa being Queen and her authority is supreme - Aerys was King, his authority was supreme. Him burning Rickon and strangling Brandon during a trial by combat in front of nobles didn't go well for him.
That wasn't a trial, that was a murder with witnesses who were told why it was about to happen. There was no defense, no witnesses except the Starks themselves, and no actual sentence - Arya cut his throat before Sansa had a chance to officially condemn him to death.
Which is all perfectly legal in Westeros, if not strictly honorable*, and in the Independent Kingdom of the North. And appropriate considering who the victim is, they had to act extremely fast and strike while he was off balance, and deliver the coup de grace before he had a chance to gather his forces. And BTW it was Sansa's show but Arya's role was vital, the problem with someone like Littlefinger is that you never know who he's compromised. If Sansa had asked one of her Bolton-trailed or Vale-raised fighting men to execute the SOB, there might have been a problem, but Arya could definitely be trusted to take him out.
* Brienne was probably sent away because the whole planned legal murder wasn't strictly honorable. From now on we should know that whenever Sansa sends Brienne away, she's planning something nasty.
What is your definition of murder? I'm suspecting that's the problem. You are confusing murder (which is the UNLAWFUL killing of another person with malicious intent) with government-sanction execution. If you admit it's "all perfectly legal," then by definition it's not murder.
It was a trial. Charges were made, it was in open court, and Baelish was permitted to speak in his own defense, and admitted to murder and treason without duress. This is actually more due process than many countries allow, even today! You might think of such countries as backward, but not everyone has a Constitution or Magna Carta, and certainly not in Westeros.
I don't have a definition of "murder" per se, so it's more a question of what is a legal execution and what is not.
On the one hand, Sansa didn't go through all the steps we saw when Ned executed that deserter or Joffrey executed Ned. On the other hand, it's not like she's going to get in trouble for failing to say "Lord Baelish, I sentence you to...".
PS: I wonder who inherits all the SOB's money? But I don't suppose it matters, Cersei will confiscate it all somehow.
<< Brienne was probably sent away because the whole planned legal murder wasn't strictly honorable. From now on we should know that whenever Sansa sends Brienne away, she's planning something nasty. >>
I'd like to see this become a regular thing. Sansa produces a shopping list/scroll and says "I have some things I'd like you to pick up for me in town" and Brienne is like "???"
.
I believe she was sent away for two reasons:
Little finger seemed to be looking to involve Brienne in his machinations, possibly aiming to use her to kill Arya. This would have been an unnecessary and painful conflict for a good, honorable person. If this is true, Sansa sent Brienne away to protect her from this and also to take the tool out of Littlefinger's reach.
She would possibly have wanted and tried to execute Littlefinger in place of Arya. For both (all three?) Starks, it would have mattered that a Stark cut the throat of the man who betrayed their father, killed their aunt, and was the driving force behind their aunt's murder of her husband. Those who pronounce the sentence should deliver the punishment.
That's why Arya was so important to the "trial", Littlefinger could have compromised anyone but Arya or Brienne, and Brienne would have objected to executing someone who hadn't had a chance to defend himself or an official sentence. So off to King's landing with her!
Really, Sansa has played things brilliantly since she got away from Ramsay. She realized Jon was likely to lose the battle for Winterfell, so she brought in allies who had enough military force to actually win. And because of her relationship with Littlefinger, he didn't follow his usual plan of letting his enemies fight each other and then taking out the winner. Then she killed Littlefinger, in a way that kept the alliance with the Vale Knights intact! So now she's got Winterfell, the respect of the Northern Lords and her siblings, and allies with a huge army. If the Vale Knights march against the undead, she'll have done her bit for the war effort without touching a weapon.
All very true, I agree Sansa did extremely well, especially when up against Littlefinger.
I do wonder how reluctant Brienne would have been in Littlefinger's case: one of the reasons she didn't want to go to King's Landing was that she didn't like to leave Sansa alone with Littlefinger. Considering her comment on loyalty to Jamie after the wight display, she may be more pragmatic than we might have thought?
#gurlpower
shareThey don't have time for fancy lad school show trials in the North. He admitted to helping kill Ned Stark and Jon Arryn, to the North and Vale, that is about the same as killing a king. Sansa didn't even need a trial to have him killed, just like Ned didn't need one to execute the deserter in the first episode.
shareBut this is the North. Sansa is the Lady of the North and no trial is necessary. Just like the first episode where Ned doled out the beheading on the dude that abandoned his Night's Watch post.
shareBut there would be proof that the guy Ned beheaded was night's watch.
Think if that scene had gone down but instead of littlefinger it was lord royce. Wouldn't matter if Bran was right or Sansa had a right. Without hard proof there would have been a rebellion. Just like there was when Dany's father burnt killed the Stark's for demanding Lyanna back.
The Stark's got lucky no one liked littlefinger. But it sets precedent that the Stark's are willing to ally as well as enemy on basically Bran's whim
Not only did no one with half a brain trust Littlefinger, but Sansa laid out a whole bunch of accusations (including his murders of both the former Lord and Lady of the Vale) the latter of which he actually admitted to. At that point if Sansa had turned him over to the Knights of the Vale they would have killed him. Then they went through all the other people he murdered or betrayed - including Ned Stark.
His reaction to Bran's comments made it glaringly obvious they were true. By then, anyone in the room would've killed him had he been released. Sansa asked him each time an accusation was added to the list, do you deny it? Only once did he even try and it fell flat. His defense was reduced to begging for mercy. In the context of a medieval royal court this qualifies as a slam dunk case. And there's no long wait for execution, no appeals process, the sentence is carried out immediately.
Exactly.
And it's a fitting end for Littlefinger, who manipulated the system to kill Ned and rise to power. He used false evidence to facilitate Ned's execution, used to traditions of the medieval succession to gain titles, and did so at the expense of the noble houses around him. So it's poetic justice that those same houses used the system to bring about his own execution.
GRRM likes to pretend that he's created a realistic gritty world where there's "no justice unless we make it ourselves" and that evil is free to flourish unchecked... but eventually all the villains actually do come to fitting ends.
Joffrey was poisoned because his future in-laws disapproved of his cruelty, Ramsay was eaten by his own human-eating dogs, Littlefinger was executed (legally murdered) by the children of a man he'd betrayed, Viserys gets a golden surprise, etc. Makes you wonder what's in store for Cersei, Frankenmountain, and Euron and please be a dear and use the spoiler covers if you actually know.
<< Makes you wonder what's in store for Cersei, Frankenmountain, and Euron and please be a dear and use the spoiler covers if you actually know. >>
I posted elsewheres that I would be pleased to see Cersei end up a caged white walker for all eternity, with her face falling off.
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Only part that was annoying was the way he was wasted. Arya should have had more fun with it, and ended by taking his face so she could consolidate his army with Sansa's... but to just kill him like they did they got nothing out of it.
shareI think the knights of the Vale are committed to the North now, with or without Littlefinger. Besides, Arya wouldn't have been able to fool them into believing that a dead man was alive forever.
shareThe Vale has pretty strong ties with the North already, definitely. And much more so now that the Starks have rooted out the murderous usurper who stole their leadership.
shareTobe Hooper is dead. I understand your grief.
shareOh Arya can still take his face, she didn't damage it and the HOBAW people take the face from the corpse anyway.
She could take it and use it to get to Cersei, if that's a priority. But there's another invasion to deal with first, and I do hope Jon and Dany get there in time to take command. Sure, Jon seems to be a real idiot as a strategist but Dany is better, while Sansa and Arya are no generals.
After seven seasons I don't wish for Sansa's death any longer. All her sins are forgiven :D
share"It did not ring true to his character"
Fascinating that you would equate his ability to deceive and manipulate with strength or courage.
Like the courageous way he had Jon Arryn poisoned. Or schemed to execute Ned Stark on false testimony. Or pushed his non-warrior wife out the Moon Door. He was just the picture of bravery, right?
Whimpering for mercy was exactly how such a person would be expected to die.
They rushed the end of his story line. He deserved a better thought out death. Lazy writers.
share