Does no one die anymore? (here be spoilers) - Game of Thrones (2011) Discussion

[–] Fairy_snuff (389) 7 years ago

Olena is a pretty major character, we've lost the whole Tyrell dynasty!

reply

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

I stand corrected! Olena was a big character and also a beloved one. (I did say that my memory might have betrayed me)

reply

[–] Fairy_snuff (389) 7 years ago

Olena was definitely one of my favourite characters!! I didn't expect her to go.

reply

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

I liked her a lot as well. Not my favourite, but always a pleasure to see her on screen.

I wasn't expecting her to go, but also I wouldn't say her death was shocking. She got a nice, dignified sent off, and we had some time to prepare during the conversation with Jaime.

reply

[–] Fairy_snuff (389) 7 years ago

Definitely true.. not a bad death as far as Game of Thrones goes! I bet Jaime wished he killed her in a more gruesome way once he found out that she was the one who killed Joffrey!

reply

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

He still had time to do it. I think the Kingslayer of all people would understand why she killed Joffrey. Also, I never got the impression he was very fond of or connected to his children. Still, it must have hurt him. Not only because Joffrey was his child, Jaime isn't heartless, but also because Tyrion got the blame.

reply

[–] Fairy_snuff (389) 7 years ago

I think he was in shock when she said it which is why he couldn't react, and he knew she was going to die soon anyway.. I don't think he was able to show too much love for his children, but we did see it a bit with Myrcella! I think he would have been more angry about what it did to Cersei and Tyrion though.

reply

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

You have a point. And I agree with you about what it did to Tyrion and Cersei. He may or may not have had deep feeling for his children (Joffrey most of all), but he definitely loves his siblings.

reply

[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

Jamie used to be pretty open about his indifference towards his children, back when Joffrey was alive. That changed a bit when he had that very short bonding experience with Myrcella, but it didn't change much.

A couple of seasons later he was back to telling Edmure Tully that nothing on Earth mattered to him but Cersei, nothing.

reply

[–] Fairy_snuff (389) 7 years ago

I guess not being able to show your emotions would make you turn them off after a while. I've definitely seen another side to Jaime this season though, I always thought he was the strong sibling but he's very easily manipulated by Cersei.

reply

[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

Cersei has had him wrapped around her little finger since the start of the story. He cares much more about her than she cares about him, remember how she was screwing Cousin Lancel and various other guys while he was captive?

His love for her is sick in so many ways, and it's totally kept him from being the great man he might have been. He's surrendered his willpower, his independence, his ethical sense (if any), his birthright, his role as a father, his sexual freedom, and his honor to please her. In return, she sends him out to do dirty work like killing little old ladies.

reply

[–] Fairy_snuff (389) 7 years ago

Definitely... he lives for her but she sees him as her own personal weapon to get what she wants.

reply

[–] bohemianroxie (2478) 7 years ago

You're right, Otter.. The main thing I want to see before Jaime dies is for him to see her for the evil that she is and to redeem himself by fighting against everything that she stands for.
Maybe even to be the one that kills her and put a stop to all her madness..

reply

[–] Cornelia123 (784) 7 years ago

I would have loved it if when Jamie leaves the room, Olenna suddenly takes out an antidote potion and drinks it and then she pulls back a secret door that leads to an escape passage, and then we last see her dressed as an old peasant on the back of a fruit cart biting into a juicy red apple with a cheeky smile oh her face....as the cart makes its way out of Highgarden and out of the reach from the Lannisters.

Olenna deserved to have outlived all of them.

reply

[–] Cookie.L.A. (2117) 7 years ago

THERE SHALL BE BLOOD!!!!!

reply

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Bronn escaping certain death 3 or 4 times in a row was ridiculous.

reply

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

I was preparing myself for him dying the moment that Dothraki started chasing him. I love Bronn, so I'm glad I'll be seeing more of him, but I'm also kind off disappointed in a way.

reply

[–] Fairy_snuff (389) 7 years ago

Yeah, when we saw the Dothraki horde and the dragon, I was expecting both Jaime and Bronn to die but I'm glad they didn't... Its nothing new with characters escaping in this way though, it is a plot device that annoys me though when you're told that someone is a great fighter and then they're only saved by some lucky fluke of fate.

reply

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

Yeah, they didn't that much survive through skill, but through happenstance. I like the characters, so I'm glad they're not gone. But as I said, I've come to expect for big players to die in events like this, so it just feels a big odd.

reply

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

When they showed his bag of gold on the ground, I expected him to plunge to get it back and then get stabbed by the Dothraki. That's probably how GRRM would have written his death had he been a larger character in the books. After all, he's always been in it for the money and nothing else. He's not Tyrion or Jaime's friend.

Because he has become some sort of "Boba Fett" with fans obsessing over him, he'll probably survive the show.

reply

[–] Atarimaster (442) 7 years ago

»After all, he's always been in it for the money and nothing else.«

Yes, he was.
But he also always was protraited as a very experienced fighter, and surely never was dumb.
Going for the gold would’ve been enormously dumb (as you pointed out yourself), and being experienced, he knows that. He looks at the gold, then at the Dorthraki, and runs. While he wants the gold more than anything else, he instantly decides that living without gold is better than dying with gold, or rather: That the chance of survival beats a nearly certain death.

So, in my opinion, grabbing the gold would’ve been totally _out_ of character.

reply

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

I love Bronn and I'll be sad if he dies. But I think that's why the deaths on GoT are so effective, we really care if these people survive (or want them dead with a passion).

Now, I was thinking that he was going to go for the gold as well. And I was thinking to myself "Please don't make Bronn die like this". I was thinking that the whole time he was running actually. For the rest, I agree with Atarimaster.

reply

[–] Volley (3433) 7 years ago

Yeah, Bronn basically had immense plot armor here--just like Cersei. Everything goes their way and when it doesn't, they don't die like Ned, they survive and come back with a vengeance a few episodes later.

If it was Bronn that pushed Jaime out of the way, just another moment of silliness and cliche that is in way too many movies and TV shows. The last minute push-out-of-the-way is easier said than done, and it's unlikely Bronn could have made it to Jaime in time, unless he actually used an unseen horse to get there.

reply

[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

Now, Jaime is still under question

I don't think Jaime will die before he manages to inform Cersei that Olenna was the one who poisoned Joffrey. So, I predict he will be rescued in the next episode, possibly taken prisoner, but won't get killed.

reply

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

I'm leaning more towards him surviving as well. But I still wanted to land on the side of caution on that one, just in case. :)

I really think Jaime can be persuaded to join the fight with the Night King. He's not full on joined the "dark side", I think he's sticking with Cersei out of loyalty. And his military experience would be a huge asset. Now, Dany might have a slight problem with him being the one that killed her father, so he's definitely not out of the woods, even if he doesn't drown. I'm not sure if he'll tell her his motives for killing the Mad King. As far as I remember, Brianne is the only one he's confided in. But if he does, I think she might respect his actions. She'll still be mad though.

Also, I'm not sure he'll tell Cersei Olenna killed Joffrey. But I might be wrong about that one, because of Tyrions involvement. So he might, to clear his brothers name (of that offence at least).

reply

[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

It would be a shame if Cersei never finds out, and this information gets lost. If the show didn't care if Cersei finds out or not, the scene with Olenna and Jaime wouldn't have happened. Jaime would've found Olenna already dead or something similar. They made a big fuss about Olenna informing Jaime that she was the mastermind behind it. That's why I think Cersei will find out, and the only way she can find out is from Jaime. So, I think Jaime is safe for now.

But it will be interesting to see what happens to him next. Tyrion will vouch for him, but he just tried to kill Dany and he killed her father. And Dany doesn't hold Tyrion in high regard at the moment. Maybe this dilemma can be avoided if Bronn grabs Jaime and swims with him far away from Dany's army, and they don't get captured at all?

reply

[–] Fairy_snuff (389) 7 years ago

I think Dany knows what her father was like now, so she might think Jaime did the right thing... although she seems alright with burning people alive at this moment too!

I don't think Jaime will die yet, I think he's still got a role to play and I am expecting a battle where him and Brianne face it off.

reply

[–] Keelai (34858) 7 years ago

Jaime has to confront Tyrian for killing their father.

reply

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

I don't agree that the scene would never have happened, if it wasn't for Cersei to find out. Jaime and Olenna are still pretty substantial characters. It would've been a disservice to Olenna to kill her off screen for one thing. And it might have been purely for Jaime's benefit, because now he knows that his brother didn't kill his son (and maybe to open his eyes a little bit regarding Cersei). Which would make it easier for them to possibly work together in the future. And since characters coming together has been a thing this season, I think they will be captured and the information Olenna gave Jaime would play a role in his and Tyrion's reunion. I might be very wrong about this of course.

reply

[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

You're right that Olenna deserved a memorable last scene, but if I remember correctly, Jamie already believed Tyrion when he told him he didn't poison Joffrey. He just didn't know who actually did it. Now he knows. Cersei on the other hand still thinks that Tyrion did it.

But I think that confirmation of what Jamie already suspected (that Tyrion wasn't the one who poisoned Joffrey) is not essential for reunion of brothers, because there's still one detail that will always tear them apart... the fact that Tyrion killed their father. I'm not sure if Jamie can get over that.

reply

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

I agree with the bit about Tyrion killing their father. That is something that's going be an obstacle during their reunion. Maybe you're right, that it's for Jaime to tell Cersei, but I still think it going to play some part in the brothers reunion as well. Or at least affect Jaime's... actions/motives/reasoning (I can't think of the word) in some way also.

But if Jaime gets captured, how is he going to deliver that information to Cersei? And do you think she's going to mound an offensive to release him, or go meet with Dany? Does she care enough?

reply

[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

I have a feeling that Jaime won't get captured at all. His capture would raise too many problems for himself and Tyrion, and the situation might get too complicated with all those unresolved issues we mentioned. I don't think that the show has time to deal with all that. If Jaime escapes, all those dilemmas become non-existent. (I may be totally wrong though)

But there's one other thing that makes me think Jaime won't get captured. If he does, who will lead Cersei's army? There is no recognizable character left to lead them. Everyone else we are familiar with just got captured by Dany. We know Tarlys, but they were just taken prisoners. Who does Cersei have left? Mountain and maester Qyburn. But neither of them can command soldiers. Did I forget someone? I don't count Euron because he is good only for naval battles.

reply

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

I don't remember anyone else left to lead Cersei's army either. But I don't think that's much of a problem. Jaime being captured would be a big loss and Cersei's reaction would be interesting, because there are so many aspects of it. As you said, he's the only one left to lead her army, he's her brother, and her lover. What will she do?

As for your first paragraph, I don't put it past the writers to gloss over most of those problems. They do need to get those two together at some point (IMO), so this is a good opportunity. Also, we don't have time for Jaime and Bronn to wonder around or have other characters track them down. (But people teleporting from one place to another has been a thing this season, so _I_ might be totally wrong lol)

reply

[–] Atarimaster (442) 7 years ago

Also – Jamie being chained to a wooden post, covered in his own shit, for months… we already had that. Would be kinda repetitive.

reply

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

I'm not too sure they're going to do that this time around. I mean, something different must happen, right? Am I too optimistic lol?

reply

[–] Atarimaster (442) 7 years ago

IF they capture him, they surely can’t let him run free.
Maybe they don’t chain him to a wooden post but to a dragon’s tail. ;-)

reply

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

Haha. But the poor dragon, firth he gets shot, now they tie some random human to his tail...

I agree, they can't let him walk around free. What I want to happen is them to recruit him for the fight with the WW, but that might not happen (yet?). We'll just have to wait for the new episode...

reply

[–] bohemianroxie (2478) 7 years ago

It doesn't bother me because there have been a multitude of shocking deaths throughout the series...maybe too many. Many families are completely wiped out..
But that being said (along with all the other replies) I think it behooves the writers to keep a few characters we love to love and love to hate to give us a reason to even care as we march to the finish line...
There are many incomplete arcs..

And in the end I don't think the question of who will die is the most important. But who will survive.

I'm betting on a very small percentage of the current cast will live up to and through the series finale.
...Most everyone will die next season.

reply

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

Fair points!

It's just that, with the quickened pace, and everyone coming together, and not dying... this season feels a little bit off. But I understand the need for those thing to happen (or not happen).

reply

[–] Benjobuff (406) 7 years ago

I believe it would have set some
Interesting events in motion if Jaime had killed danaerys.

reply

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

Now that would have been shocking! And I agree, the aftermath of that death would've been very interesting.

reply

[–] Benjobuff (406) 7 years ago

Right? Like that would have been the GOT I fell in love with. Wild dragons. A rogue dothraki horde. Jon snow the last targaryan. Missandei in charge of the unsullied. Cersei Lannister back in control. Tyrion caught really in the middle.

Now we just get more of danaerys slowly advancing her army. Blah. I was ready for her to go. She brought the dragons to westeros. That's enough from her

reply

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

You really don't like Daeneris lol (how the f*ck do you even spell that!!!). But yes, that would've been the old GoT, with shocks and twists and "Whaaaat!!!"s. Things are a little different now... (there are still those things, though, but it feels a little different this season for some reason)

I've said this before, I can't wait for all this fighting for the Iron Throne to be over. It never was all that important to me (I think the WW are much more important), and I don't really care who sits on the damn thing. I just want Deaneris to go North and burn some ice zombies. That's what I've been waiting for for 6 seasons. We all know that's what's going to happen eventually, so this season feels a little like just shifting chess pieces around for next season.

reply

[–] Benjobuff (406) 7 years ago

I think danaerys fighting the white walkers is the most predictable thing that could ever happen in television history. Ironic considering thats the opposite of why I started watching the show. I saw the red wedding first and thought. Cool. A show where you don't know who dies. But it looks sadly to be devolving into a happy ending where danaerys and Jon snow fall in love and save the day.

reply

[–] bohemianroxie (2478) 7 years ago

I think it looks like Jon and Danaery will hook up but will not end up together..No happily ever after for these 2..She may end up being a villain herself rather than saving the day...not to mention being Jon's Aunt (which they may not discover until after hooking up) .
The White Walkers may not end up being the "bad guys' in the end anyway. What's so great about so many humans devastating and destroying family after family just so they can control whatever is left? Maybe there shouldn't be an Iron Throne or an empire to rule over.

I'm really hard pressed to imagine who won't die by the end...hmm..maybe Samwell and his family...the robotic 3 eyed Bran...That's all I can predict to survive so far.
I feel certain Littlefinger, Cersei, Jaime, Brienne, Davos, Arya, Greyworm, Melisandre, Theon and either Jon and Danaery (or both) will buy the farm..I'm crossing my fingers for Tyrion and hopefully a few others to live..Someone has to live.

reply

[–] Benjobuff (406) 7 years ago

There is only 9 episodes left. Most of them will live. Unless multiple die each episode. That's what I'm saying. Would have been cool if Jaime killed her. One last twist. Because we know how this thing ends. They all band together to fight the zombies

reply

[–] bohemianroxie (2478) 7 years ago

I think most will die in the last battle..or battle's..
I don't think a lot of the main characters that survive to the end will survive the end.
I do think there will be an attempt to band together...Not sure I think it'll work with everyone (I'm looking at you Cersei)

reply

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

I guess that would be predictable, but I also think they've been building up to it, so it's more expected in my view (are those two that different).

It would be just plain odd if Daeneris and Jon get a happy ending. It's odd _now_ with all the Stark kids coming together (for me at least). And if they find out they're related, the whole love connection thing might not happen (unless they're cool with incest).

But I agree, the unpredictability of who's going die was one of the things that hooked me to the show as well. And so far this season I don't see much of that (for the big players at least /yes, I remember now that Olenna died/).

reply

[–] xenario13 (101) 7 years ago

Bronn and Jamie should have been burnt to a crisp in the last episode.

reply

[–] asdf1234 (57) 7 years ago

What about Sam's dad and brother? Pretty sure they both died in that battle.

reply

[–] komrad (148) 7 years ago

Goners but not during the battle, see next episode for confirmation.

reply

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

I must have missed them dying (or not recognised them, at all). Was it during this last battle?

reply

[–] Benjobuff (406) 7 years ago

The tarlys are Red shirts. GOT is winding down to a happy ending with Jon snow and danaerys. It's unfortunate

reply