The bedroom scene with the neighbors really creeped me out - they were either having consensual relations or they were raping her - but either way it was just gross and disturbing. Like they were attacking this poor girl.
BLeh.
This scene was hard to figure out. It sounds like she's crying but at what is anyone's guess. And how did she get the tape?
I concluded that she was upset during the sexual act, that she wasn't comfortable or possibly she was being coerced into the act. And we have no idea if it was a one time thing or happened on several occasions.
I just think she didn't want to have a threesome with the couple. I think having the wife involved crossed the line.
it was clearly consensual. they were giggling and drinking too i think and he said something like "you two started without me?" or "you two are in here waiting for me, eh?"
shareI agree. I think it was intentionally shot and edited to be ominous. The two shots of her before the "action" starts, Alice appears disoriented and sluggish.
I think they gave her GHB to force her into having sex with them.
The dream that she writes about might not just foreshadow her death. She says that in the dream she feels drugged and that feeling stays with her when she wakes up. That could be the after effects of the Toohey's dosing her.
I think she had the tape because she found it, probably while babysitting. Maybe played and it had no memory of herself doing those things. So she takes it out of shock, not knowing what to do with it.
And the Toohey's move six months after Alice's death not because they had consensual with a minor, but because they are sexual predators. And once they realize they can't get the tape, they flee to parts unknown.
I don't really know the dates of the footage but could it be possible she drowned because they did drug her? Maybe the drowning was accidental because of the drugs and they didn't want to be held responsible or let their dirty secret out
shareIf she had been drugged and that contributed to her drowning I would assume her family would've noticed something wrong with her, and most likely would've showed up in the autopsy. I assume they test for most drugs when a healthy young person drowns.
Fact: 87.3% of IMDB users belong to the secret society of cynics.
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just to reply to your last point. i think porn sites advertise "teens" because there is a feeling of "wrongness" that accompanies it. and that feeling makes it more exciting, i.e. better jerking off material.
shareThere is a MASSIVE amount of projection going on here that I'm not even gonna START to touch on.
But to answer your overall general question of why I think she was raped and that it wasn't consenual?
1. The film stresses over and over how vivacious and full of life she was. Before her death she is moody, distant, and so consumed with thoughts of her impending death that she consults a psychic.
2. The diary entries where she specifically mentions "feeling drugged".
3. Again...when presented, the sex tape is edited and scored ominously. There are two shots of her before the couple comes in. In both she appears disoriented and sluggish.
4. The couple tried to break into the house to retrieve the tape, and then when they couldn't retrieve it...they pack up and haul ass to parts unknown. As far as I know, the age of consent in Australia is 16. So if it were consensual, they would be in no legal trouble. It seems a bit of an overreaction to pack up and move like gypsies just to avoid a little embarrasment.
So no, my mind doesn't just go "Oh...she was clearly raped because she's a teenager."
Not really, screwing your neibour's daughter is always seen as bad & disshonest, which as somebody already mentioned is what makes it so appealing. lol
Not illegal, but something you definitely DON'T want getting around, especially to her mum & (especially) dad. :)
But if she had been drugged and raped then how is it that she got the film to hide in her room? If it were something found with the couple as they were making their escape, I'd agree with you in the case of rape. But she had the tape. She would have had to have known she was being recorded somehow and got her hands on the tape...while being drugged...
share1. The film stresses over and over how vivacious and full of life she was. Before her death she is moody, distant, and so consumed with thoughts of her impending death that she consults a psychic.That change seems to have occurred after the incident at Lake Mungo.
2. The diary entries where she specifically mentions "feeling drugged".I checked the subtitles and what it actually says is:
3. Again...when presented, the sex tape is edited and scored ominously. There are two shots of her before the couple comes in. In both she appears disoriented and sluggish.To me she looks bored and watching TV in the first shot, while the second shot she looks like she is wiping away tears which does support the idea that she's not happy about being there. BUT, then as the 3rd shot cuts away and the guy says the line about starting without him, she laughs pretty deeply like she is happy to be there. So hard to really say if she was totally comfortable with the sex but she doesn't seem drugged.
4. The couple tried to break into the house to retrieve the tape, and then when they couldn't retrieve it...they pack up and haul ass to parts unknown. As far as I know, the age of consent in Australia is 16. So if it were consensual, they would be in no legal trouble. It seems a bit of an overreaction to pack up and move like gypsies just to avoid a little embarrasment.Well, they did wait 6 months - it wasn't super-rushed, and nothing good would have come of it for them no matter how consensual it was, it violated social norms so they would have been ostracized and their kids would have been teased mercilessly.
I mistook this for her realizing what happens after her ultimate fate. Like she's seeing how in the future, when she's dead, that she still lingers around the house.
You all bring up very valid points and I agree that the whole sex thing was really disturbing. That part of the movie complete pissed me off.
You are certainly not to be "trusted", you are missing the HUGEST amount of psychological analysis and research that is extremely relevant to the statements you are making. And the age in the US in NOT 18, its also 16. There is of course an element of societal standards for 'when' someone should get married, lose their virginity, etc, but with regards to intergenerational relationships, there is a fair amount of analysis regarding the negative effects of being with a person decades older than you, AT such a young age (it becomes more irrelevant as you mentally mature into adulthood). There is no doubt that this would have an influence on Alice whether or not it was consensual.
The age of consent is between 16-18, depending on the state you live in; but not just flat out 16.
Each US state has its own age of consent. Currently state laws set the age of consent at 16, 17 or 18. The most common age is 16.[41]
* age of consent 16 (31): Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Georgia, Hawaii, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia
* age of consent 17 (8): Colorado, Illinois, Louisiana, Missouri, Nebraska, New Mexico, New York, Texas
* age of consent 18 (12): Arizona, California, Delaware, Florida, Idaho, North Dakota, Oregon, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, Wisconsin, Wyoming.
That's all irrelevant as this is an Australian movie.
shareI think this theme in the movie was done rather well. I also, remember something in he diary about feeling drugged the next morning or something in the line. If I'm not mistaken they also discuss on suing the neighbors for rape but I think it was the cops that told the parents that in the tape it seems consensual and they couldn't bring them on charges?
shareI watched this movie and it seemed to me that she was wiping tears off her face before they even started the sexual act. Maybe it was just me but that's what it looked like. It did sound like she was crying though and it really creeped me out too.
shareI watched this on a laptop, so I might have missed a few things visual, but, honestly, to me it seemed consentual. Even the dad said afterwards that the tape appeared to show that it was contensual.
She seemed happy sitting on the bed, maybe a little tipsy from drinking--I know a few people who like to drink before having group sex, or sex with new partners because it loosens them up a bit and calms their nerves. And the noises she was making during sex to me sounded like happy noises--which can often be mistaken for crying anyway.
I do think it was left fairly ambiguous though, this is just what I thought.
No, it looked completely consensual (maybe not moral particulary.) She was seen chatting away to both the male and female prior to engaging. If she were raped, why would she keep a tape of it in her bedroom?
Also, don't forget there was the footage shot from the pool party, where she was seen chatting to the neighbour, twirling her hair as if in a flirtatous manner.
SPOILER ALERT
I thought she was wiping away tears, too. I agree that the footage was shot and edited to be ambiguous.
I also got to thinking that when Alice spoke to the psychic about feeling that something bad was going to happen to her, she could be talking about being coerced into sex with older neighbors (who she saw as authority figures, likely, as she babysat for them) or the drowning.
To me, the law regarding age of consent is sort of irrelevant. You can be of age and still be coerced into sex.
And speaking personally, I was curious about sex as a teenager, and felt coerced into an episode of consensual sex. I didn't want to do it at the time but went along with it because I felt that the older man could keep me in the room with him regardless any objection, and felt extraordinary shame for a long time afterward. I can't say I was raped, but I absolutely felt violated.
Bothers me even today, and I'm soon to be 40.
I thought it was entirely ambiguous - parts of the scene appeared to show Alice in distress, and other parts appeared to indicate it was consensual sex. But I have a different perspective on this entirely - I don't think the whole 'sex with the neighbours' thing was even necessary. I didn't find myself speculating on how it had anything to do with her foreboding of her death, at all. Her quietness and withdrawal could all be entirely explained by what she saw at Lake Mungo - the sex subplot could have been left out entirely without affecting the story at all.
shareI agree, it was a pointless derailment that took away from the overall crepiness of the film. Everything else seemed to be well thought out, but this seemed to be completely out of place. I still enjoyed the movie, but this is its biggest flaw.
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