MovieChat Forums > Man of Steel (2013) Discussion > This movie ruined the DCEU

This movie ruined the DCEU

posted 6 years ago by BrunoAntony (1198)
20 replies | jump to latest

... not because it was bad (although it does have flaws in it's script) but because Warner Bros tried so hard to address all the criticism of this film (Superman causes too much damage! Where are the other superheroes? Superman can't be a killer!) in "Batman vs Superman" that they ended up ruining that film due to over interference, which had a knock-on effect on "Suicide Squad" (re-edit for more jokes and lighten the tone!) and "Justice League" (re-edit for more characters and jokes, less destruction!).

It's actually a miracle that "Wonder Woman" (which is ok, not amazing) somehow managed to escape the cycle of course correction that "Man of Steel" triggered.

To be honest, I think "Wonder Woman" and "Man of Steel" are almost on par. They are also the only two DCEU films that haven't been edited to death by Warner Bros before they were released.

[–] Truthtalker (2033) 6 years ago

Yeah, I have noticed the same, each movie has a new set of mistakes

[–] Otter (24464) 6 years ago

The whole DCEU film series has been such a mess from the get-go, that analyzing where they went wrong is MUCH more interesting than watching the actual films*!

My theory is that the original pitch was where they went first wrong, because I suspect that they started with the idea of making a Superman movie similar to the Nolan Batman films, full of darkness and moral compromise, because that's what DC fans like. This approach doesn't work for Superman, because Superman's purpose is to lift people out of darkness and moral compromise, not to get dragged into it! And since they'd started with a bad idea, then yeah - things snowballed into more badness exactly as you described.

It really is a object lesson in how not to make a series of films. It must really kill the DC fans that Marvel is an object lesson in how to do a film franchise right, they just give the audiences what they like and the butts in the seats keep coming back.Sorry, DC fans, you didn't deserve this. Well, most of you didn't.

* "Wonder Woman" excepted, that one was fun.

[–] TandyMan (11352) 6 years ago

The fallout from this film is definitely where it all started. I really wish they had made Man of Steel 2 before pushing forward the DCEU. This is a rather grim & bleak film. But in many ways, it's just the first half of Superman's origin. A properly made sequel that was bright and hopeful and saw a fully realized Superman would have established a much stronger foundation.

I'd release a solo Batman movie that same year, establish him and really pile on the grim and dark over there. Then when you do Batman v Superman, you have fully established characters from two very different worlds colliding, just the way it's supposed to be.

[–] Otter (24464) 6 years ago

You know, if the people that made these films had listened to you instead of Zack Snyder, they wouldn't be in disaster triage mode now.

[–] AP (5295) 6 years ago

DC wrapped up the Dark Knight Trilogy one year prior to that and likely didn't want to hit audiences with another Batman solo film. I'm okay with the next movie being a Batman/Superman movie but it should have been a team-up movie called World's Finest. You could still have the hopeful Superman and the colliding of worlds, but best of all, you'd avoid that silly fight.

[–] actionkamen (23176) 6 years ago

The fight is silly because the studio really desperately wanted Batman to win. It just didn't make any sense. This is no David vs Goliath.

Superman should have won in Bvs, and with the greatest of ease!

That way it would set the tone that Superman's power is way way more serious than people imagined. And it would prove that Batman was right: Superman is dangerous because he is overwhelmingly super powerful.

But the fact that Batman won only portrayed Batman as a jealous jerk. Batman basically don't want anybody to be stronger than him, so when he found one he beat the crap of him (secretly using kryptonite to boot.) That's just being an asshole.

Actually WB tried to correct this in Justice League. I saw that the audience in my theater cheers and felt glad when Superman finally arrives and VERY EASILY kicks Steppenwolf's ass, a being so powerful that gave Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Cyborg and Aquaman ALL TOGETHER a difficult time just a minute before.

People loves Superman being powerful. That's the essence of the character.

[–] AP (5295) 6 years ago

The fight was also silly because there was no reason for it. We see Batman causing all kinds of needless damage in his fights with criminals. Sure, Superman caused more damage in his fight with Zod, but it still comes off as hypocritical. Then you have Superman angry as Batman for branding criminals despite the fact that he employs pretty violent methods himself. Both came off as jerks with no redeeming qualities.

[–] actionkamen (23176) 6 years ago

But Superman dindu nuthin' wrong! Why would you say that he's also a jerk? Batman is. He's a jerk and a bully.

[–] godwulfAZ (43) 5 years ago

The urge to put two (or more) superheroes together who have never met and immediately make them fight is an urge and tendency that's been around pretty much as long as there have been superheroes. When I was a kid I was a big fan of IGC's Magicman and Nemesis, and when they finally met, in Forbidden Worlds #136, the writer HAD to make both of them out of their minds and hostile, instead of having them team-up or just go have lunch or something. Of the two instances I can recall where the Avengers met the Justice League, what happened? Right. Captain American vs. Batman, Wonder Woman vs. Storm, Submariner vs. Aquaman, etc. Essentially it's juvenile.

[–] AP (5295) 5 years ago

Sure, hero vs hero battles are a staple of comicbooks. There's still a right way and wrong way of doing things.

[–] millsey72 (10947) 5 years ago

The problem then after Batman Begins was released in 2005, they should have rebooted Superman instead of doing Superman Returns in 2006. But DC failed to have the vision that Marvel had in 2008 with Iron Man. DC failed big time. The character of Tony Stark is just as well known now as Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent. Thats a huge credit to Marvel.

And when they got up to Batman V superman, there was no need for Doomsday as the villain. Doomsday could have been set up as a nice villain in Justice League instead of the rushed alien invasion angle

[–] MickyMac (3254) 4 years ago

I think MOS 2 and a solo DCEU batman movie needed to be made instead of BVS to create a sufficiently large impression for DCEU Superman and Batman.

If you ask me the mixed to negative receptions of MOS, BVS and JL have killed all hopes of a MOS 2 or solo Batfleck, cause there's no talk, there's no interest or any wheels turning in trying to continue with the DCEU versions of Superman and Batman.

[–] ATG6 (3000) 5 years ago

this movie was fine. Wonder Woman and Aquaman too. Batman v. Superman was great. Justice League was what ruined it.

[–] HarlemEagle42 (18433) 5 years ago

You're not wrong. Sometimes the fans are their own worst enemy and overreact to everything.

[–] Joogle83 (4546) 5 years ago

The Movie is one the best if not the Best Superhero Movie along Superman(1978) this film was great my favorite of 2013 better Than Iron Man 3 & Thor:The Dark World

[–] MickyMac (3254) 4 years ago

It's killed any hopes of another solo movie with Cavill, to this day there's no talk or interest of doing Man of Steel 2.

[–] MickyMac (3254) 4 years ago

It's a problem in trying to start a franchise if the first instalment doesn't make an instant impression they'll either scrap all franchise or start over. And it's a similar problem with TV shows, if you don't have high enough ratings say in the first ten episodes they give it the axe, so there's no time anymore for the show to grow and evolve, it means second chances are at a disadvantage or extremely rare.