MovieChat Forums > Paradise Now (2005) Discussion > A few things about the Israeli-Arab conf...

A few things about the Israeli-Arab conflict


Pardon my English. I'm a 18 years old northern Israeli guy, and English serves as a second language.

I liked the movie, even though it was a bit unrealistic. The watchers get the feeling that all suicide bombers are ordinary people, just a little desperate. I'm afraid the fireworks that we see on our memorial day (for soldiers and civilians who lost their lives), coming from the Arab village nearby + the happy marches the Pal. make, every time a baby is blown up in a bus, or just get shot in a hotel, can tell otherwise. But hey, you don't see that on CNN, right? Because it would upset the Arab world, and Europe would lose its biggest oil source. we wouldn't want that to happen.


Apart from the movie, a few things I want you to know. May or may not be connected directly to this board, but it should be said.

1. The British gave 1\2 of "Palestine" to the Jews. They could have built here a UK2, they could have bomb the whole place, without giving any explanation to the Palestinians, but they chose to give half of it to the Jews. The Arabs, like always, with an impulsive reaction, started the first war, raging about the 50% (that 50% was basically 40% desolate desert and 10% of Jewish cities, built in the previous century) that the Jews "stole" from them, which leads to...

2. 1 million Palestinians were expelled? Nah… Most of them fled the new country because they were afraid from the war they brought upon themselves. They could have stay, we would have treated them like anybody else, but they made a choice. We all got to live with our choices, don't we? We can't cry 24-7, and blame the Zionist, and their "puppets" (USA, and apparently the whole world, according to Palestinians). A lot of power for 750,000 Jews in Israel, no? But wait, what about the million Arabs that did stay in Israel? What happened to them? Were they killed, discriminated against or got pushed to the sea?

3. I have to say no. 1,400,000 Israeli Arabs, enjoying a high living standard, studying in the universities that the Zionist built, visiting our Zionist malls, receiving money from our government when unemployed, etc. I live in a Jewish city, located 2 miles from an Arab one. I see Arabs every day - in a Zionist hospital, in a Zionist library, in a Zionist park, in a Zionist TV broadcasts etc. Never heard a racist comment and never witnessed an act of physical violence. We accept them into our society because they're Israeli. I don't care if they go to a mosque in the morning. Even when some of them arrange terrorist attacks themselves, the Israeli-Arabs are safe and secured in their arab cities.

But wait a minute, the Israeli Arabs are being treated like dirt, with the apartheid and all...

4. There is no apartheid, and the wall doesn't concerns Israeli Arabs. The Palestinians are not part of our country, and we never wish them to be. How can building a wall, on one country's land, count as an apartheid? if the US decides to build a wall on Texas' turf, in order to prevent illegal immigrants from entering the US, would you call that "apartheid"? If Poland, in 1939, build a wall to protect itself from the German army - apartheid? And as for the Israeli Arabs - they are treated like any other citizen. Of course there are Jewish cities and Arab Cities, but that's made by choice, like Belgium, if I'm not mistaken.


surprisingly, the rate of terrorist attack against Israel has drop hundreds percents since 2003. but that's all a strange coincidence. bad Israel, bas Zionists.


The West Bank (Khaled & Said's birth home) and the Gaza Strip is not desired by us, Israelis. It's a burden. We provide the Palestinians with water, electricity and gas, and let's not forget - millions and millions of Dollars, taken from our taxes money, even though it's a proven fact - some of the money is used by Hamas, Fatah and other peace organization. But of course, the Jews (sorry, the ZIONISTS) have a hidden agenda, and they must have invented some special money, that melts in your hands.


5. Poor Palestinians, always the victim. They're poor, living in a constant fear of war, and their love ones occasionally get hurt from the enemy's fire, the children murderer. Guess what? So am I. I'm poor, I lived in shelter during the '06 war, and I lost love ones in a the enemy's attack, and when the lonely, poor Palestinian blew up the coffee shop near my high school, hundreds of children could have died also.

but we Israelis carry on, trying to offer, willing to give up land, Because life means more to us. In 2001 we offered them the whole Gaza Strip and the West Bank, They're ultimate goal (So they say…) They refused (not a shocker). We celebrate life. They, on the other hand, continue to wallow in their grief and anger, while hurting the beautiful land of Israel.

It's not because of 1967
It's not because of Lebanon
The Palestinians want 5,500,000 Jews out. they made that quite clear when they murdered us in the 19th century (uh, but that's because of 1967, right?), the start of the 20th century (the occupation... damn 1967!) and when Mohammad Amin al-Husayni met with Hitler, discussing the extermination of the European Jews (but wait, they weren't Zionist, because they've continued to live in Europe.... uh, what the hell, damn Zionist, it's all because of the occupation).

I'm a left winger, but I would not stand by while ignorant, hateful people all around the world are bashing Israel, and asking us to apologize for being alive. It's a new time, and we have self-esteem, pride and love for our beloved country.

Peace to those who want it.

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As an Indian - non Jew - non Muslim - non Christian - i feel the movie is not completely misleading. It can be an eye opener to both sides to reconcile.

As far as i know - The Israelis just HAVE to continue the occupation forever, because if they give back the land, it will be used by Arabs to lauch missiles within 10 minutes flying time from Tel Aviv. As Khaled argues with Suha - ' would Israel sit in peace if we were not suicide bombers? ' the same argument can be used by Israel 'Would Arabs sit in peace if we gave the land back?' The world has to remember - the main fault Israel has is that IT IS IN THE WAY. It is only absorbing the blows meant for Europe and USA.

However - Isreal has a big fault and a big lie - the settlers and the brutality of the occupation. Sure - Israel should police the land - but settlements should be stopped - even removed. Because that land belongs to the Palestinians. And the world must interfere to see that the land which Israel polices for its own security is treated with dignity - and that Palestinians are given the right to live with the neccesities , comforts and even luxeries that we take for granted.

Such good movies should not be wasted on a 2 character storyline. They must also pass on a message and crate public opinion. This movie should have made mention of the Sunni Arabs and Shia Iranis. Not only do they hate each other but hate every other religion and the primary culprits who are making pawns of the Palestinians for personal gain and vendetta.

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I just love the way you've marginalised the whole issue of the settlers, the wall, the way the waste waters of those settlements are dumped on the Palestinian agricultural lands, the amount of fertile land destroyed during the construction of the wall and the way it zig-zags around the settlements and the Palestinian towns cutting them off from the rest of the world, and also the whole process of colonising their land by building and expansive road network and creating more and more settlements deep into their territory, the fact that 500 Jews supported by the IDF rule the entire city of Hebron and do whatever they want with the locals, kinda says it all you know, just examine the death toll of the Palestinians compared to the Israelis and I think you'll get a pretty accurate picture of the victims in this case. You've got money, power, influence, army, weapons of mass destruction and you still love to play the victim. You can't disagree, you can't make a point that will contradict me, you know I'm right, removing the Palestinians entirely has been a policy of every successive government since 1967, just look at the amount of settlers that moved into those lands, people that shouldn't be there in the first place. I'm happy that there are still sensible campaigners like the ICAHD who try to show the world that there are still decent and caring Israelis who recognise how wrong your army and your government have gone and bring issues that are otherwise unheard of in the Western world. Before saying anything I want you to prove to me that the wall really is for security and explain to me why it zig-zags deep into Palestinian lands and it's not confined to the green line. Why is the line about to be 703 kilometres long when the actual green line is only 315?

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The British had no right to give the land or bomb it as it did no belong to them in the first place. The British can give a part of their own tiny island if they so much care about the jews. But we have to remember their hypocrisy, they never wanted to save the jews even in WW2, they only fought because Hitler attacked them. The only solution is for there to be one secular country of both jews and arabs.

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Oddly enough most Palestinians aren't debating whether Israel should continue to exist. They just want to be allowed to set up a viable state alongside it and end the occupation of the West Bank. It's only the dafter elements of the Western Left (and the odd Iranian president) who still want to debate the question of Israel's right to exist.

However, the more the Israelis do to make the Palestinian state unviable (principally expanding the settlements) the more likely the West Bank/Gaza Palestinians will stop looking for a 2-state solution and start demanding seats in the Knesset. That would be a pretty hard demand for Israel to deny without being openly racist.


I used to want to change the world. Now I just want to leave the room with a little dignity.

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I realize this is a pretty old thread and that Mr. Krustallos may never pick up my response to his comments. But for some reason I feel moved to stick my scrawny neck out and say: The idea that a one state solution would be hard for Israel to deny without being openly racist is inane. Given the demographics, it would be suicidal.

To state otherwise pretty much shreds that dignity you wanted to leave the room with. . .

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Well Mary, I did pick up your comment but it seems you haven't understood mine.

If Israel permanently rules that territory, and doesn't give all the people who live there a say in how they are governed (as Arabs who live in Israel proper have a say), then what you essentially have is apartheid.

If Israel wants the land it has to take the people who live there, that is how nation states work, unless you think ethnic cleansing is acceptable behaviour.

Agreed a one state solution would be suicidal to Israel as a Jewish state, at least in the narrow way that Zionism is now conceived. Which is why a two state solution is the only consistently democratic solution in my view, which is why it's doubly disastrous that Israel constantly seeks to sabotage that solution.



I used to want to change the world. Now I just want to leave the room with a little dignity.

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The fact that you are Israeli already subjects all of your information to strong bias. Your argument would never hold up in a real debate, while myself as an Australian can look on at the conflict with an outsider's eyes, subject to less bias.

Israel has taken Palestinian Arab lands. The Palestinians are defending themselves with the small means that they know how. I don't care about all your little squabbles about who started the war, but the fact is that Israel is heavily armed by the United States and that they use their American technology to expand their country.

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Actually the fact that he is an Israeli does not invalidate his position. He speaks from personal experience, whereas you, as an Aussie, speak only based on the information you receive 2nd or 3rd hand, selectively filtered by those seeking to persuade you one way or the other. The way you characterize the history pretty much shows that you have bought into one dogma and denied any credibility to the other side's position, and such a view only perpetuates the problem and offers no solution.

My 2 cents - religion is the root of the problem on both sides. I say to heck with a one state or two state solution. I am calling for a three state solution! a third state should be established which completely cuts Israel off from both Gaza and the West Bank. In that buffer state, should live all those Israelis and Arabs from the former territories who wish to live a secular existence.

Dream big.

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Thank God, I was scrolling through these posts and every single one had these innocent little statements about how there was no Palestinian state before Israel was established, the Arabs caused all the wars, etc-

Yes Britain gave Israel to the Jews, but it WASN'T their land to give, that land WAS populated by a nation, and even if the colonizers say there was no 'country' that doesn't mean anything, that's the winners re-writing history. Look at the War on Gaza, over 1300 Palestinians killed, many more injured, maimed, children, women, innocents, shot, bombed with illegal weaponry-- what a massacre. You want to say Israel has a right to exist? Then push for it being a country that has an ounce of respect for the rights of those who live within its prisons that are Gaza and the West Bank, with walls and checkpoints that won't allow in even enough food, medicine, gas, etc, for the Palestinians to live (Gaza). Show me an Israeli state that has an ounce of respect for the life of a Palestinian child and I'll say, that state has a right to exist.

One of my best friends in this world is Israeli, but I cannot abide by the atrocities of that country. It is using the US's weapons and unconditional support to create the worst case of apartheid that has possibly ever existed on this earth, and hiding behind an innocence that should by now have been torn down. I am not saying that Jews are bad or even that Israelis are inherently bad-- I'm saying, STOP defending Israel because you think that it must commit these atrocities in order to survive, or because you think that the Arabs have caused or provoked these atrocities. The Holocaust was horrific but it is past, and in saying this you are sanctioning the genocide of another people.

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You are exceptionally ignorant.

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