MovieChat Forums > August Rush (2007) Discussion > i hate to bring people down to earth, bu...

i hate to bring people down to earth, but..


i'm not a particularly cynical or critical reviewer. I routinely forgive films for presenting unrealistic situations for the purpose of drama. I totally forgive the minor elements which other reviewers have been criticising (11 year old August not having been adopted; being able to hitchhike to new york, meet a black minister and enrol at the juilliard with no identification whatsoever without being turned in to the police). However, I have to fundamentally disagree with the the message this film puts forth. Music is not some kind of magical spirit, like the Force, which some of us possess more of, and therefore can instinctively know how to conduct a symphony orchestra after playing the guitar. Musical ability is much like any other skill or craft; it takes dedication, time and practice, which result in the reward of improvement. It is an insult to any musician to suggest that anyone could sail into the juilliard with no effort on their innate 'musical talent'. I know that this has been exaggerated for dramatic purposes in the film, but the premise is nonsense. Musical ability is in my opinion almost totally due to a persons environment (how much they listen to and practice music), and the 'natural talent' which musicians are supposedly born with and which non musicians envy is almost negligible.
Some people have said that this film inspires people to take up music, but i think that it portrays music so fancifully and in such a fairy-tale way that when those people realise that learning a musical instrument takes hard work, they will be more disappointed and disenchanted with music. In a way, it alienates musicians from non musicians by portraying talented musicians as magicians.
Your thoughts (im particularly interested to hear from other musicians)

reply

There are people who just possess musical ability, that has no rhyme or reason, it is just there. I studied piano and guitar as a young person and knew it was just a hobby or interest. I still sing but it is for fun.

But how can we question the fairy tale nature of this plot when we just watched Susan Boyle rise to prominence in the Britain's Got Talent and her debut album "I Dreamed a Dream" has the biggest debut of 2009, beating Eminem's Relapse.

"With more than 700,000 in sales, according to Columbia Records, Dream will not only claim the biggest debut of 2009 in the U.S. when it charts next week — beating out the 608,000 for Eminem's Relapse but will also earn Boyle the highest debut ever for a female solo artist on the Billboard 200 in the SoundScan era."
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1627364/20091202/boyle_susan.jhtml

There are still wonders in this world and I thought that movies were an escape.

Just as in theater the story has to advance and there can be some magical events such as deus ex machina." It is generally considered to be a poor storytelling technique if used improperly."

I have especially liked it use in ancient Greek drama. The story is equated to Oliver Twist by Dickens they said but it has been so long since I read it.

I do not think that the magical quality of the movie diminishes its message.

My elementary school teacher taught us this saying that"music is a universal language" and that has galvanized me to listen and appreciate many diverse music forms and instruments. That is the wonder of the world. In this world I believe anything can happen.

I feel that you could like this movie or dislike it but it is still creative and magical.

I just watched it this morning on cable and would watch it again.

Although it is emotional at times, it is plausible.There are many tales from the Naked City...

It is just unfortunate that the arts - music, drama,and art have been dropped from curriculum because of budgetary cuts. What happens if a music genius is not inspired or allowed to get formal training? We see them all the time at street corners and parks but they are not known except by those that see them by chance.

I enjoyed the music in this movie and theme concerning using the music to find his parents. And one can get pregnant on a one night stand...

Cheerio!





reply

I am a musician but this doesn't have anything to do with my distaste for this movie, mainly for the convoluted story and the total and literal adherence of the writers to the school of "put your main character on a tree and throw stones to him", when the theme and the story didn't seem to need those "he's on the verge to reach his goal, let's get him some hindrance", to the point of creating an unrealistic and ridiculous story...

But, on topic, people here (clearly most are not musicians) seem to mistake genius with omnipotence or/and omniscience, because even the most musically gifted of kids wouldn't be able to write, not a masterpiece mind you, but an easy score without having somebody to explain them the little intricacies of writing music, although only those who read and write music will have a grasp of what I intend to say here.

Of course, people with extraordinary talents and abilities exist, that's not the point; I am not one of them of course, even when I learned to play the guitar at 7 and used to play in churches, while my sister, then 10 y/o, sung hymns.

I have not heard on this thread of a real and gifted musician who thinks it was easy for him to play well an instrument... mediocrity is easy, a good job takes time and effort... any real musician knows this to the core...

reply

[deleted]

I agree, the only thing we're born knowing how to do is cry and crap our pants. Everything else can be learned. Things our parents are good at, perhaps we're more likely to be good at, but only because they probably had us doing it from a young age. My dad loves art and got me into at a young age too, so I've been practicing for 21 years, I'm probably a little better than someone who just picked the hobby up.

reply

yeah... i agree with the whole runaway thing. but i dont think you guys can get it??? this child is a musical prodigy. THERE IS SUCH THING. sure.... any ordinary kid has to take guitar/piano lessons in order to play. but there are rare cases where a child is truly born to naturally excel in it. I suck at music, i have taken piano twice a month for the past year... and i can STILL barely play anything. my friend who just started playing for 3 weeks has already surpassed me.

what i am trying to say is that some people are born gifted. there is such thing where someone can pick up a guitar and start playing by ear. of course, not anyone can be able to do that... but in this case, August ISSS gifted. He ISS a musical prodigy. Thats what makes him special. thats what the minister saw in him. He is Like Mozart, Like Beethoven. Obviously, August doesnt exist. but there are many kids like him.

AND... there are things that you just cant learn. many people i know in my piano class, including my piano teacher, have been playing piano for over 10 years and cant play be ear too well. my teacher can sight read any music sheet at the most difficult level on call, but has never written or composed any music in her life. she just wasnt born to do that. BUT... my friend who just started piano has easly started writing songs and making piano guitar music in all of his spare time. he was born to write music. you really cant be taught stuff like that. sometimes, its instincts.

also, August Rush is not the first film/book that is about a child music prodigy, there are hundreds, and some based on true storys. soo... this movie isnt at all that crazy.

reply

[deleted]

I have no problem accepting the idea of a child prodigy taking to music like a fish in water, having an innate ability to learn instruments and to play music as if channeling something higher. What I couldn't accept was the way August, after seeing a bar staff one time, was able to write western notation. The sounds can come naturally, but music notation is a total abstraction that can't be intuited. It's like writing fluently in a language you've never seen before, pulling the alphabet out of the ether.

"The great act of faith is when a man decides he is not God."
-Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

reply

[deleted]

THANK YOU.

I feel terrible writing bad things about this film because I love music more than anything. I'm happy for those that this movie carried away through music and hate to be a wet blanket. But. (sigh)

But for me, as a musician myself, I guess what I found most offensive here was the (um) "fairy tale" that music does not need to be learned, music is easy, music is a breath on the breeze, which... sometimes melodically, or vocally, in a perfect world, sure -- but not the way the film presented it, not even if I stretched really far and tried desperately to like it.

Music is amazing, wonderful, and yes, transporting. But it is also hard WORK. Even Mozart worked at his musicianship, despite all the popular belief he just wrote sonatas at age 4 because he felt like it. He had been trained from the cradle. He knew how to play a keyboard and violin virtuosically. He knew the language of music notation and theory even at 4 and used that knowledge to write, and evolved rapidly into operas by 8 or 9 -- onward.

No pixie dust. No bashing guitar strings out of the blue (I guess because Freddie Highmore couldn't really be taught to play the guitar?!). No boring-pseudo-triumphant-film-music-compositions (he used traffic noises! how daring is that? NOT!) to end things on a laughable musical note (GOD that final piece.... worse even than the one in Mr. Holland's Opus, and that's saying something.)

Wanna know a secret? Music? Is TOUGH. I'm a trained singer, cellist and composer who began as a scholarship coloratura soprano and cellist from childhood, then pursued composition and lyric-writing in my 20s, about the same time I also took a few years to pick up jazz theory as well as guitar, which I've continued to this day. (this is just to give a general background on me as far as techincal merit -- not because I'm awesome or the best ever, because I'm totally not). I'm competent. But I've known some brilliant folks and this movie is insulting to musicians on a very subliminal yet real level. AND drove me nuts for that reason.

Music is one of the treasures of our world. But it also involves hours and hours of dedication, practice, and training. Music is about interaction and collaboration, about listening, about doing more than just swaying and listening to wind chimes and looking vaguely blissed out. It's about being willing to practice until the muscles know every note by heart so that the real virtuosity can follow. In composition, it's about studying music theory until you know the keys, the tabulature, the chord progressions, the possibilities, to music. Even if you're a rebel. You need the structure to begin, even if you're gonna break that structure or discover new or different instrumentation, even if you want to find a new sound.

What got me about this movie -- where I began to be angry at it, I mean, really really angry watching it -- was the scene when August meets the little girl, and at this point it would have taken less than 60 seconds of vital screen time for us to see her truly introducing him to musical notation, to the piano in the room, in a way that was believable (and this would have gone a long way toward alleviating my hatred of the film -- at least somewhat). Instead, the movie goes out of the way to show us August doesn't need any of that and has somehow divined everything he needed while she was gone for a few hours, so that he now knows and writes in advanced theory and musical notation with no introduction at all to those concepts. It's beyond savantism and into ... aghghghghism. Sorry, it's insulting. It's exactly as insulting as a fictional little scientist inventing his own perfect Table of Elements instead of realistically learning them and building from there (and which would be just as cool or inspiring, and best of all, believable).

In short, the reason perhaps many find this movie laughable and insulting is that -- in addition to the overall terrible writing and the bad, cardboard-cutout character characterizations especially among the meanies -- Daddy, bandmates, Robin Williams, etc. -- it says music isn't really all about any of those things, it's about fairy dust and abandoned babies and wimpy abused girls (and bad, bad actors and actresses). And crappy crappy feel-good endings defying all logic or story or writing ability.

Which, nope.

Not for me, and from reading this board? Not for many others. God, what an awful and upsetting movie. I hated it so much it made me sick.

reply

[deleted]

[deleted]

I haven't had the energy to read all the posts on this thread, but I can tell you that you can be genetically predisposed to many things even music, but the truth is you need both nature and nurture, as with everything, and I read that someone said something about being born with a "magical eardrum" and fetuses and I can tell you that while speech (talking, understanding and hearing) in most people is located on the left side of the brain (not everything but most), music is located on the right...

and not that I want to be acused of ageism but could your age have something to do with the fact that you have a problem with prodegys. and about the realism of the film, almost every film where they deal with talented kids or geniuses exaggerate the hell out of them, take for example a beutiful mind or good will hunting, in movies and tv-series in generall they have a tendancy to say that if you have high IQ you understand everything and that is simply not true, can't it be a similar thing in this movie: exaggeration.

liked the movie, but then again I am an romantic, and I know alot of talented musicians, and while I practised my as off with the horn, I know a guy who heard it played by me 2 times a week for three weeks, then he outplayed me (this was when I had been playing for 5 years, I admit that I'm not a great musical talent, and that he played the Sax, Piano, guitarr and a couple moore, but what the hell would you call him if not a natural born musician???

reply

[deleted]

it made sense to me at least :)

reply

[deleted]

OK, let's say a kid is a genius and he learns to write and read (the alphabet) just the first time some little girl shows him some letters. Ok. That I can believe.

But, do you want me to believe that five minutes later said bright kid would start to producing novels, plays, poetry out of nothing?

Please, don't insult my intelligence. Even a musical geniud kid would take some time learning from books, given they were around as you imply. Believe me, reading about and studying musical notation is something totally different from playing a few notes on a keyboard.

I am willing to accept that some kid can play a guitar
without using proper chords... No, I take that back. I don't believe it.

And I'm not saying this just because it took me years to play well an instrument as well and reading and writing music.

And for your info, reading music is very different of writing it. Being able to read a book doesn't mean one can write one.

Well, it is a matter of opinion, I guess, but I think that those who knows a bit about music have the edge in this debate.

So long.

reply

[deleted]

i thought it was excellent. best movie ive ever seen about music. "once" used to be the best but this movie surpasses it


"jackie treehorn treats objects like women, man."

the dude

reply

Seems to me it's extremely difficult, if not impossible, to uderstand/comprehend the ability(ies) of a genius. No matter what the field.

reply

Do you remember that mozart was 5 years old when he wrote his first symphony. therefore he was most likely semi proficient with the piano at about 3 or 4. and since 1 or 2 year old children dont generally have the motor skills yet to do much, it probably took him about a year to become an amazing pianist.Now taking into account that august was an 11 year old musical genius with a much more developed brain, it isnt that ridiculous. of course this is a movie but it still isnt an insult to musicians because he is a prodigy and of course it will take less time to learn then a normal person would take. Also that is completely not the message of the movie, the movie is about hope and never giving up, his musical talent is part of the plot which is a diffrent skill. But if you beleive that is the message of the movie, then you missed the whole point

reply

I'd just like to add to your point by saying technically children younger than 11 have an even better chance at learning music because it's when your brain is still developing that you learn at the quickest rate. Studies have shown that a brain still developing, like that of a toddler's, learns at a much faster rate than that of a brain that is already developed or mostly developed. Babies and toddlers soak information up like a sponge, really. They may not have the motor skills yet, but they most certainly would have the capacity because a child's brain picks up on key elements an adult's brain misses. What I'm basically saying here is that it is much easier for a child to learn new things than it is for an adult because a child's brain is still developing.

As an adult, it is easy to underestimate a child's ability to learn. That is something I miss about being a child. As I, myself, grew up, I experienced that particular fact firsthand. It can be seen in bilingual and multilingual children, as well. If children are exposed to more than one language at an early age, they have a much better chance of remembering it later in life than if an adult were to learn new languages later in life. Studies have actually been done to prove this.

It's just that some musicians, not all though, just don't believe that a child as young as August was in this film, or younger for that matter, can learn how to read or play music on their own. The musicians who say that playing music the way August did in the film is impossible just don't understand prodigies. It may have taken those musicians years to truly be able to play music the way they do, but the fact that separates them from these young prodigies is that they aren't prodigies. Prodigies literally learn at a pace that would even put the speed of light to shame. What takes me and other average people years to learn and play would take them mere months or even weeks. Their brains work at a capacity the average human couldn't even begin to fathom. Since some, not all, musicians are unable to comprehend how a prodigy's mind works, though, they think what musical prodigies are able to do is impossible, which actually shows only their own arrogance and ego. I apologize, in advance, if I've offended any musicians on these boards who have read this, but it is the truth. You may not believe that children can play like August did in the film, but they can. If you don't believe me, do some research on child prodigies and learn how their brains work. I can personally guarantee that their brains are a lot different from yours, and they are able to perceive what you may miss. Once again, I apologize if I've offended any musicians who don't think real musical prodigies can play like August Rush did in this film. I know, as a fact, they can because I've actually seen some of them and have actually researched about some of them. They are out there if you are just willing to look.

reply

It's just that some musicians, not all though, just don't believe that a child as young as August was in this film, or younger for that matter, can learn how to read or play music on their own. The musicians who say that playing music the way August did in the film is impossible just don't understand prodigies.


No, that's not it at all. You aren't getting it.

My problem with the film isn't that August is a musical prodigy. My problem with the film is that August isn't just some little musical genius who learns to play, then learns to write music at an amazing level. But that he is instead an impossible savant who cannot seem to learn to play an instrument properly (bashing a guitar simply does not work that way, for instance, or result in consistent music, not to mention the fact that it's damaging the instrument), while he is nevertheless capable of magically inventing music theory and musical notation after little to no actual formal exposure to them.

Nobody argues that Mozart was a genius from the cradle. But we still don't assume that Mozart also invented his own musical notation system IMMEDIATELY upon viewing his first piano! No. He used the existing rules and structure of music as it was taught to him. The way ALL formal musicians and composers do on paper.

The analogy of the guy farther upthread was perfect here: "August Rush" tries to sell us the story of a kid who can write a novel without ever being exposed to the alphabet.

And that's what I find insulting. That August's abilities are not only totally improbable, they are literally impossible, they are silly movie magic from lazy writers who didn't evidently know anything about music themselves. Which is really upsetting for those of us who have spent years studying music.

I've known several prodigies in my life--child prodigies as well as grown ones, and have even studied musical savants for special research. But while musical savants might show some of the mimicry skills August does, most of what they do is imitation, not creation, and not one of them in human history certainly ever stared dreamily into space then began to magically write in musical notation.

THAT is what bugs me. And that is what I hate about this sicky-sweet, insulting movie.

reply

First off, I do get it. You are also completely wrong with what you say and your ignorance shows.

Second, if you don't think that how August was playing the guitar isn't a proper way to play it, you obviously don't understand much about the various ways to play the guitar. Look into Kaki King, will you. She plays the guitar the exact same way. Better yet, do some research into Michael Hedges and Preston Reed who played the guitar the same way, as well. Bashing a guitar does work that way. REAL musicians would tell you this because REAL musicians have done so before. As a matter of fact, REAL musicians did so for the soundtrack of the film. You might actually want to look into the FACTS before you ignorantly claim that playing a guitar doesn't work that way because it has worked that way quite a few times in the past and still is working that way today. YouTube is another good source. Look up Kaki King on YouTube. She plays that way all the time, and it is always consistent.

As for knowing musical notation almost immediately. Once again, you show you have done next to no research. Mozart did, in fact, invent his own musical notation. By 6 he was writing his own notation, and not by the existing rules taught to him. He did it on his own. Also, does Jay Greenberg come to mind, at all? He did the same thing at age 3. Soon after playing the cello for the first time, immediately after seeing it I might add, he started inventing his own musical notation at the age of 3. He did so with no previous experience or study in musical notation whatsoever. So much for that literal impossibility. Evidently, the writers knew more about music than you do because you have failed to grasp the understanding of prodigies.

You might want to continue researching both musical savants and prodigies. It's far more than mimicry. They do, in fact, create their own music. Mozart did so at age 5. Jay Greenberg did so at age 3. There is a little girl who is doing so right now at age 8. Once again, your ignorance shows, and you clearly haven't done enough research into the matter. A simple Google search took me to at least a dozen different musical prodigies that do way more than imitate.

Also, saying that 'not one of them in human history certainly ever stared dreamily into space then began to magically write in musical notation' is a complete lie. Mozart did when he was 5, and Greenberg did so at the age of 3. Please, do some more research, kid, because you have obviously not really done any.

For the record, your clear ignorance of musical prodigies is more of an insult to music than August Rush, or any film about music for that matter, could ever be. You clearly don't understand prodigies, or even savants for that matter, at all. That research you supposedly have done apparently wasn't enough. As I said, you still have a lot more research you need to do, son, because you clearly have not done enough.


ALL HAIL THE HIGH QUEEN!!!!!

reply