Come on now a rookie state police right out of the academy thrown under cover in the South Boston mob? no way! They have no training for that! Costigan never even issued a ticket to anybody and he is Donnie Brasco?
It is really something the FBI does anyway but not some kid rookie.
Then we have Sullivan becoming a top guy in his unit. I do not think so.
The weirder part was the Boston mob boss trusting a academy washout.
It's based on real life events.
shareI don't think Whitey Bulger would let young man who cleared police background checks and was in the academy into his circle.
But this was the father figure aspect of the film that defies reason. (Which I liked )
Yes.
I have watched so many documentaries and read so many books on the mob to know that if they are suspicious of somebody they just eliminate them rather than take chances.
Didn't Mr French refer to Costigan as a "cunt cop" when talking with his nephew while Billy was sitting at the bar?
Then not long after Billy is doing collection runs and hits with French.
Exactly, it would take years to trust somebody like that.
Costello said it! He said it would not be out of the question for Queenan to take somebody out of the staties to infiltrate his mob. Bingo!
What would likely happen honestly is they would just kill Costigan just in case. Why take any risk?
he was related to criminals, and Costello sent flowers to his mothers funeral?
the other guy was an ambitious high achiever.
So what he had an uncle and other relatives in the South Boston mob. How does that train him for being undercover?
What kind of training do you think one needs to be undercover? Acting class? Psychology manipulation skills? Microexpression reading? No, seriously, I'm asking here, what kind of training would a veteran undercover cop have?
I think he is perfect for the job. He doesn't need a fake name, doesn't have to come from out of town, he can just be himself. Wouldn't that be better than having to keep track of your made-up background story?
They probably have training, but they probably don't need it necessarily. They'd run through scenarios - which, yeah, probably a lot like acting class - and maybe they'd get some pro tips on how to deal with stress management, how to make drops, set up wires, etc.
That said, they also probably just tell somebody to act like a mob bookie, slap a mic on his chest with strong adhesive tape, and throw him out there.
Costigan was suited to the role, though; they talk about this in the film - about why they want him for the job.
Ok so when the FBI used Joe Pistone to become Donnie Brasco they were stupid. Should have used some rookie state cop who had an uncle in the mob.
shareMaybe? I don't know. I'm honestly asking, what does a veteran undercover cop has that's better than not using any false background or not acting like you're someone else.
shareAfter reading yalls back and forth it got me thinking. Costigan would act and think less like a cop if he has less experience as a cop so its not so hard to hide. He knows those type of people from growing up around them, he had family connected to them, him being washed out of the academy could be hand-waved as saying "see you arent like them you are one of us". Of course the father-figure aspect of Frank helped lull him into wanting to take in Costigan.
To answer the other guys question, sometimes people are placed undercover because they can fit or hide the best. Plenty of regular people are recruited by the police to simply spy or feed information. Now deep undercover you would reckon it would be someone that is a cop. Costigan shown he wanted to be a cop, and he fit all the parameters of being someone who Frank might trust, so Queenan recruited Costigan. Also keep in mind he washed out of the academy which is what they needed! Frank had too many spies in the precinct and the cops knew it so they couldnt use a cop. And any FBI special agent that randomly shows up to try and infiltrate Franks gang would take YEARS and still not be trusted. So Billy Costigan was their best bet to get someone in there.
Dignam and Queenan make it clear why they've picked Costigan for the job: he was already faking "Southie" status while bouncing between his upper-class home and lower-class home with his divorced parents. He has already done what they want him to do.
Pair that with the fact that he probably just aced every single test they gave him in the academy and they have no reason to doubt his skills. Plus his family are moderately connected (his cousin) but not in so deep that anybody knows him.
Finally, Costigan's rookie status *helps* them. See, they suspect that they've got rats in the outfit (good on them) and they can't just grab an elite member of the team. Why? Because, (a) a long-standing cop might be a long-standing mole, and (b) it lends credibility to the prison stint Costigan has to do if he's not an exemplary cop for 15 years and then suddenly is doing time.
I think they covered this detail in the scene where Leo meets Sheen & Wahlberg.
They go through his background. They see that he had a history of faking / role playing (ie - he put on an accent when he visited his dad). They also saw that he had a history of violent behavior (he got kicked out of school or something for fighting), so they figured he was tough enough.
He was a rookie, but they also figured the mob would suspect a veteran policeman as an undercover.
How would the mob know an undercover was a policeman at all? That is the idea! You do not use a known person using their real name..
Joe Pistone was a veteran FBI agent who already worked undercover in a big vehicle theft ring.
"""Because of his ability to drive 18-wheeler trucks and bulldozers, he was eventually given undercover work infiltrating a vehicle theft ring, an assignment that resulted in over 30 arrests and a greater profile for Pistone within law enforcement.[5]"""
A rookie state policeman has no qualifications to go undercover with the mob.
They change the name, but they can’t change the person’s entire past. During the exchange, Martin Sheen says something like, “We can’t hide that you were a statie. But we can conjure a story where you get kicked off. We’re thinking assault and battery.” Wahlberg then says, “considering your history.” Then they explain how he will go to jail and such, which would help convince the mob that he really isn’t a cop anymore.
A veteran police officer would have had a harder time convincing Costello’s folks that he isn’t a cop anymore
You miss the point entirely.
The undercover is not known by the mob to be a former cop or somebody who trained to be one!
Donnie Brasco was a made up person with no known law enforcement background. Not a real person. What are you not understanding here?
In Real life, maybe that’s how it works? I don’t know. And I don’t know anything about Donnie Brasco.
I’m talking about in the world of this film, the departed. The mob in this film recognized Billy as an ex-cop who got kicked out for fighting and did time in jail. Costigan assumed a fictitious name, with a false background. But certain elements couldn’t be concealed, like the fact that he was a statie. So they had to incorporate those elements into his undercover identity
Again missing the point. Costigan would not have been used in that role! Period. His lack of experience and his being known would have been the reason and under no circumstances would anybody with a connection to the police be trusted by the mob.
How can you watch a film like this without knowing about Donnie Brasco?
I went through the academy in 1988 and before we completed our last course of instruction 2 fellows came in and conducted some interviews with a handful of guys. When we returned to class the next day, 2 of our classmates were gone.
About a year later I found out that both cadets were removed from class and had worked undercover for the narcotics unit. We were in a college city so their short hair was not really out of place. I had always wondered how those two were selected and it basically came down to being single, having the gift of gab and basically not looking like a cop....as much as possible.
When those two officers completed their assignment, they were both transferred to patrol for about 6 months at which point they were again transferred to a street level drug interdiction unit.
Many times, drug units or organized crime units don't want someone who is or has been in law enforcement for any length of time because of the habits and characteristics picked up by being in law enforcement. In this case (The Departed) Leo was supposed to be brilliant but I would imagine that it would still be quite the undertaken to be thrown into the South Boston mob
That was a job that required a young under cover who could pass as a college student.
shareNot really, they weren't buying from any college students and I don't believe their cover was being in college at the time. We were located near the I-95 corridor which was and still is a major narcotics pipeline supplying the East Coast with cocaine among other drugs. Our two guys were making controlled buys off of people coming up from the Florida area.
shareThanks for your insight as an actual Cop.
shareI think the problem is not how rookie cops get into these high positions so fast or how Costigan would make Costello trust him in such a short time.
Scorsese may have failed to properly illustrate the passage of time. I always thought the movie was supposed to span over a period of many years, maybe even 10.
Not sure how Costello EVER trusted Costigan no matter who is uncle was.
I believe about the time that Costigan was being asked to go undercover....Barrigan makes a statement at the coffee machine to Sullivan something like...."what you got? Staff Sergeant. 4 years and already a Sergeant" for which Sullivan says "I don't mind doing it alone and if you did too, you would go somewhere"
So at least we know the timeline progressed 4 years.
I thought he said "in no time you made sergeant" - that scene, though, I'm just bracing myself for the "you have any suits at home....." line
shareIn Infernal Affairs, about 9 years pass between the 2 main characters being in the academy together and the story picking up again. Realistically this is time enough for them to rise through the underworld and the ranks of the police respectively.
In The Departed, it's implied that Costello helps Sullivan along by tipping him off about things or setting people up for him - as shown with the whole Jimmy Pappis thing, Branagan even saying to him "no wonder you get ahead". It's also suggested that Sullivan's bosses don't question how he solves the crimes or achieves the arrests he does because, being careerists themselves, the results he gets will also make them look good (see the bit with Alec Baldwin - "que gives a s**t" indeed). Even with all this though, I can't help feeling it should have taken at least a few years for him to make Detective Sergeant - in fact, doesn't he go to SIU straight from the academy? That's kinda crazy.
The film does a much better job in showing how Costigan's family connections, combined with his own chequered history, plus the jail time after getting kicked out of the academy, enable him to infiltrate Costello's gang so quickly.
What's especially good about it is that the only person Billy proactively approaches is his "idiot cop-magnet" cousin. After that, he lets them come to him. To suspect him of being a rat would be to doubt their own judgement because they approached him and brought him in.
I get what the OP is saying about him not having the training or experience to go undercover, but he's not going after a group of strangers in another city - the Costigan name is his "in", and as Quenan (and someone on this thread already) says, they can't conceal that he's joined the police - so, the longer he's a cop, the less likely it is that it'll work.
Of course, the smart move would be to go all White Heat and get someone out of town to do jail time with one of Costello's gang and get in that way, but that film's already been done!
From the script...
INT. CORRIDOR POLICE BUILDING. DAY
COLIN, in his good suit, moves along the hall. He owns the
building. He looks into offices. He is looking at his future.
From one room BARRIGAN (still working in uniform) gives him
the thumbs up. COLIN gets a coffee. He looks at a secretary's
ass. Caught at it, he smiles beautifully. She smiles back.
BARRIGAN
What you got?
(with admiration and envy)
"Staff Sergeant". In four years
you're a sergeant.
COLIN
SIU. What a country.
BARRIGAN
(after a beat)
Perfect.
13.
CONTINUED: (2)
SGT. DIGNAM (CONT'D)
(CONTINUED)
Meaning to some extent "Perfect for a dick like you". This is
how friends come apart. BARRIGAN is unable to continue his
pose of congratulation. COLIN (close on Colin) is on to him.
COLIN
I don't mind going it alone. If you
could go it alone you might get
somewhere yourself.
BARRIGAN
We're cops. This isn't "somewhere".
COLIN
I know you're a worker. I might be
able to do something for you. You
got any suits at home or you like
coming to work looking
For deep cover assignments, they will sometimes grab recruits before they even go through the police academy.
shareGonna be honest: The movie was so awesome that it never even occurred to me to pick it apart like that..
share