MovieChat Forums > Batman Begins (2005) Discussion > I couldn not STAND the Rachel character!

I couldn not STAND the Rachel character!


I loathed her. She was endlessly belittling of Bruce, she condescended to him at all times, she was never a "friend" or good to him.

Frankly, I just don't understand why he chose to have her in his life. She definitely didn't appear to be some lifelong childhood friend or even a possible love interest.

Why did he always want to hang out with someone who acts as if they loathe Bruce and that everything about him and everything he does is beneath her?

Lamar Jackson for Heisman!

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I didn't care for her either. She was just too bland of a character, imo.

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Wish they had a better female presence for Begins and TDK, one highlight of TDKR was it had a better female presence than the first two films.

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exactly. Katie Holmes was decent with Dawson... since then nope.

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She was like a two scene character that became the main love interest for two films.

I can't imagine why they had to write her that, as being cold and unsympathetic.

He looked at her as the life he could've had if not for his life as Batman, but as you said she was never a lifelong friend or possible love interest, it looked like he was afraid of finding love elsewhere, also looked like his ability to move on from his childhood sweetheart is gone by the trauma of his parents' murder.

Wonder if Nolan & Co have any regrets about the characterization of Rachel Dawes.

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Looked like he was afraid of finding happiness elsewhere.

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I didn't mind her, a pretty face to look at, and it was understandable that she'd act that way having had to live in "it's only getting worse" Gotham during her teenager years while Bruce was out somewhere else in the world.

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A pretty face? Are you talking about Katie Holmes? That droopy, crooked-faced thing? She looks like she's had a stroke!

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She had perky boobies

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I agree. I assume the only reason Bruce was interested in her was that she reminded him of the time when his parents were alive.

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He was afraid of moving on.

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She never bothered me like she does virtually everyone else. Her characterization could’ve been a little better, but overall Rachel sincerely cared for Bruce and she represented something good in him. The way she snaps at him after he reveals the gun and the intentions he had was justified. So far as I see it, the only moment where she might’ve been unfair to Bruce, was when she ran into him for the first time in 7 years. She assumed he lived without a care in the world, and in her defense that’s the impression Bruce wanted to give.

All in all, I appreciate her presence in the movie. Katie herself does a good job with the role. The big scene where Bruce is trying to save her and he’s escaping with the bat tumbler, is pretty great and makes his apparent love for her (or simple concern) all worth it. And needless but still necessary to say: she looks so fine in the movie.

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http://citizens.trouble.city/showthread.php?tid=132193&pid=3146148#pid3146148

Well while we're talking about Nolan's Batman movies... While I don't think she completely redeemed her, Maggie Gyllenhaal certainly made the character of Rachel Dawes much more amiable.

As much as I like Begins, I've always seen Dawes as a very problematic character. While she's meant to be Bruce Wayne's moral compass, Katie Holmes plays her like a fickle Prom Queen who leads poor Bruce around by his knob while chastising him for everything he does. While the writing of the character is partly at fault - their closeness is mainly stated but never shown, with Rachel droning on and on at Bruce about his responsibilities while always presenting herself as unattainable until he shapes up - Holmes lacks the range and gravitas to make the character work, simply coming across as smug.

Cue TDK, and a much better actress (Gyllenhaal) and suddenly Dawes becomes a lot more relatable. OK, she's still Catalyst on Legs and... Well let's put this nicely, romantically inconsistent ("I'm marrying Dent! No, I'm shacking up with Wayne! Nope, Dent!") but Gyllenhaal's maturity and charm makes Dawes' much-vaunted nobility a lot easier to buy.

To me, the difference between Holmes and Gyllenhaal is a great example of how the right casting can make even a poorly written character shine, and conversely how the wrong casting can just highlight all their flaws.

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