MovieChat Forums > Ong-Bak (2005) Discussion > OVER_RATED (DETAILS INSIDE)

OVER_RATED (DETAILS INSIDE)

posted 19 years ago by t-owens81
258 replies | jump to latest

First I am going to start this off by saying that I am an active competitor and 3rd degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do and have studied enough to consider myself fairly knowledgeable in the feild of Martial Arts.

This movie is for one, over-rated. Like a psoter in another thread stated, Tony Jaa has no charisma. If you see Jackie Chan or Jet Li fight, they tell a story. They have physcology (sp?) and presence, Jaa has none of that. He does his moves which are ncie indeed, but get repetitive and boring.

On the back of the DVD case this takes a cheap shot on Jackie Chan, I know it is for promototional purposes but please. Jackie Chan and Jet Li are gods of the Martial Arts movie world, and have the experience and charisma to execute well in a film like this. The chase scene was good and Jaa showed amazing agility but hell the barrel scene in SHanghia Knights leaves that in the dust, and that is saying something. Like earlier stated, Li and Chan have physcology, they can make it comedic or show fear etc.

Jaa is skilled at Muy Tae, but his ksills dont overlap into this area. His style is more for real life fighting, not demonstration and coordinated fighting. Three reasons why the fight scenes weren't good...

1)Crappy Partners.
All of the people Jaa fought were bad. Each guy in the bar was horrifically slow and showed no skill, the main henchmen was good but not something better than on a weekly Texas Walker show.

2) Repetition.
Ok we know Jaa can jump and knee someone in the face, or elbow them in head. Ok it is good the first time, but c'mon. He does the same moves over and over and over, showing no diversity in his style. You never see him adapt to knew opponents, he jsut sticks to his basic moves and does them.

3) No storytelling.
They were just fights... that is it.

I will go to admit Jaa has some skill. He can do flips and spin kicks like nothing but he needs to do that rather than his repitive moves. Li and Chan are so great because of there fast hand to hand combat. Do we see any of that? NO.
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Overall not a bad movie, but shouldn't be regarded as something special.

[–] PsychicMonk 19 years ago

This guy is a twit and this movie is fabulous.

I detect jealousy.

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[–] mistorpotatomoto 19 years ago

Your skills in martial arts obviously havn't helped your skills with the english language.

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[–] lotusblossom 19 years ago

Are you sure you saw ONG BOK? I don't recognize it in your post. I disagree with virtually everything you wrote.
What version of ONG BOK do you have? Mine says nothing about Jackie. Seems like some people feel you can have only one martial artist/actor that you admire. There are a lot of excellent MAs and stuntmen in ONG BOK, maybe you should watch it again. Tony has good screen presence and it gets better in TOM-Yum Gooong. He's still adjusting to his new found fame but he's growing into it. I still love to watch Jackie and so many other movies with MA. Tai Chi Master with Jet is amazing. So you can enjoy a wide variety. Someone needs to fill that void that will only grow larger. Jackie and Jet et all can't keep doing MA when they are in their 60s. Not the kind of stuff fans would consider MA films. That void is filled perfectly for Tony Jaa! He does the most amazing moves, sans wires. In a MA movie you don't need much of a plot...just enough to carry the story along. ONG BOK is a good vs. evil movie as most action movies are but what's wrong with that?
Tony has a bright future in store. There was more to the fighting besides knees and elbows strikes. Such as why Tony kicked the Australian in the face. The contrast between fight prepping Tony and the Burmese fighter were doing said a great deal about their charactors. There is more of a plot than you give credit for, it's still not deep but holds your attention. Tony is the best thing to happen in the MA realm in a long time!

[–] tiger-crane 19 years ago

I am also a Kung Fu student in the White Crane and Tiger style. Trust me, belts are for holding you trousers up...that's it.

Belts mean nothing. Anyone can learn a pattern, form and moves. Its putting it into practice that makes the difference.

Tony Ja - Agreed, can be a bit boring and repititous (sp) but he knows his stuff and can fight.

Jet Li - some of his stuff is known in the Kung Fu world as "Flowery Fists", meaning its all for show and looks good but is not effective in a fight situation. Saying that, he also knows his stuff and can hold his own in a fight. He studied WuShu.

Jackie Chan - has vast experience and knowledge of many forms of Kung Fu. I think he even designed and created his own form of Drunken Kung Fu for his film Drunken Master.

[–] damnwolf 19 years ago

kungful, you could not have been any more right about belts. The only reason I have feelings towards mine is beacuse I remember with warmness the blood and sweat I've spilt to gain it. But let me try to make my point here, in regards to certain previous posts.

I am (primarily) a WTF TKD student. My degree is of no matter. I do not believe the martial art is the best there is, nor will I be convinced so of any other one that I have studied or any I might in the future. This thread has evolved to one of the "mine-is-better-than-yours" runts that utterly disgust me. These kind of comparisons are only feasible on a personal, physical level, for good or for worse. Anything beyond that is as pointless and idiotic as misspelling another martial art's name when professing the supremacy of the one you happen to train in (in relation to which, you cannot demand respect to whatever you stand for if you don't show equal to others, and spelling Muay Thai correctly is the minimum).

This movie is highly entertaining, with realistic fighting scenes (and anyway, what's wrong with repetitiveness?? if it works, you'll use it again), and not trying to be something it's not. Having said this, the choreography in Jaa's other movie (the one with the elephants, can't remember the name at the moment) is much more varied than in Ong Bak.

[–] Daelock 19 years ago

It's Jaa's first movie, let's not forget that while Li and Chan might be deities of the martial arts movie (and emphasis on MOVIE as Chan is NOT a real martial artist) their first movies were about the same os Ong-Bak: cookie-cutter plots and some pretty lousy acting but the fight scenes made up for it in spades. I actually think that for a first outing Ong-Bak is astounding.

"It is not heresy. And I will not recant."

[–] rucuk3000 19 years ago

Jet Li - An awesome actor and a god of his many styles and can kick crap when necessary.

Bruce Lee - A powerhouse of many fighters rolled into one and could keep it cool whilst flaying a guy alive also a god

The 2 Dudes from Banlieu 13 - Awesome stuny guys and prolific in their fightign styles of which one invented his own just like Lee did.

Jackie Chan - His ability at his current is is still astounding as it was when he was younger and he has the balls and brains to fight and pull moves that would make other cringe.

Tony Jaa - Up and coming but as we can see from his action there is potential inside this man that once unlocked a fight movie with him in as a good or bad guy would b one to put on your dvd xmas list.

Samo Hung - Much respected fan of jackie and can kick major ass even though you may not think it to look at him.

Chuck Noris - Went up against bruce lee and lost gloriously. Still altough most of his films are popcorn he knows how to place a kick or a punch where it counts.

The bad guy from drunken master (his name escapes me) - Mainly used his legs in this movie and can prove that there are truly many ways to floor someone with legs alone.

of course there are many more...

If reading this you are wondering my point....here we go.

They all have their own skills and are gr8 or masterful at what they do. Niether one is better or worse than the other but in a fight someone always has to go down or a double KO. Each one had different acting ability and punching power. Fighting experience and acting experience come over time and once you have mastered them both then truly you know your stuff.
You cannot expect someone to instantly become a master of both. Fight movies usually don't have a strong plot (but of course there are those that do) and isn't it grad to have the main star to fall back on to dish out the action when the plot is failing to move it along.
If you are going to knitpick their style or condemm their acting you give it a try and see how you fare.

"You're a smeeeeee-hhheeeee!" - Kryten (Red Dwarf)

[–] Daelock 19 years ago

Fantaaaastic point from the above post. And to be honest, I think it all comes down to the fact that I'm not sure a tae-kwon-doe "master" is really the right person to judge someone's muay thai prowess.

"It is not heresy. And I will not recant."

[–] rucuk3000 19 years ago

Thanks very much :0)

I made a lot of slip ups there but i think u got my general point.

"You're a smeeeeee-hhheeeee!" - Kryten (Red Dwarf)

[–] deavenger 19 years ago

Okay. Tony Jaa like everybody agrees, is an awesome martial artist. Tae Kwan Do isn't crappy. It just seems like everybody has a black belt in it because it is popular in the U.S where if you go to other places, it is harder. Jet Li also is pretty good actor. You got to watch movies like the Once upon in China, Hero, and Kiss of the Dragon

[–] rsa95 19 years ago

i see a lot of people put down tae kwon do its a martial art its legitimate but its not as bad as some people make out it differs fair enough but to make it seem like its a waste of time seems harsh i remember hwang jang lee the kickmaster(thunderleg from drunken master who is now known as grandmaster!) was a practitioner of kwon do and he is one of the best martial artists in the world

before he went into movies he was a martial arts instructor for the korean and vietnamese armies and was challnged by a vietnamese knife fighting expert hwang accpeted and killed the guy within 20 seconds (cant remember how long) but the point im making is that tho each individual martial arts may differ in technique but if properly executed they will be unstoppable

[–] Daelock 19 years ago

Tae Kwon Do was originally designed for peasants to fight imperial troops on horseback. It's a martial art that's designed to be extremely long distance, once someone gets close, Tae Kwon Do just can't offer up a lot.

"It is not heresy. And I will not recant."

[–] krenterprise 19 years ago

Don't overlook Steven Segal.

He is not the best actor in the world but is better than Jet Li and plays it far more seriously than Jackie Chan.

He is a very skilled martial artist and some of his Aikido moves are awesome.

Chuck Norris was also another true martial artist (one of the best of all time) and a pretty fair actor.

Jacky Chan just jumps around like a clown most of the time.

[–] jimbobjackdannycrew-1 19 years ago

I understand people admire Jaa, I agree's what's there not to admire!

But it's not fair when people admire Jaa and disrepect others like Chan, Li, Hung and Bruce.

Krentelprise is a idiot, Jacky (it's spelt Jackie, he's obviously someone who knows *beep* about martial art films) doesn't jump around like a clown. He uses his environment with admirable physical and comical effect.
And the very inspiration Jaa got for the Ong Bak market scene.
People say Jaa is the best acrobat in the world, he's good but try Yuen Biao!
If people going to disrepect Jackie using Jaa's acrobatic skills, I'm sorry but Jackie is clearly the better acrobat, being train non stop daily at a young age at opera school.

The fact Jaa "Idolises" Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee and Jet Li, from a young age means Jaa wouldn't be where he is today if it wasn't for them.

And to read post, where people throw cheap shots and Jet Li and Jackie Chan like "He can't act", "He can't fight" or watever is really disrepectful and shows how arrogant over half the pricks on this board are.

Everyone has their own film fighting style, Jaa goes for the realistic approach which I find less entertaining, but that point of view. Jackie and Jet go for the more stylised chareography it doens't mean they can't fight like I see some arrogant punks claim.

And wat's with is disrepect and ignorance about styles, this "style is *beep* that style is better". *beep* children around here! "Mauy Thai is the best" .
Obviously alot of children around here they watch superman and think they can fly, they watch ong bak and think mauy thai's the best style in the world. I'm telling you all, their is no worst or best style, it's all condition the more to train the better. Mauy Thai is lethal on ong bak, all due to the portray of it, through bone breaking scenes.
Just because jackie doesn't break bones doesn't mean he's a pussy. He likes people to think he's a funny guy not a killer, that's why he play clowny characters, it's not cause he's a wimp. If u watch some 70s and 80s jackie film you will see how muscular he is, drunken master, snake fistin eagles shadow. People say Jackie is "not a martial artist but an actor" WRONG!
Jackie has been in street fights as a teen with gangs, once he knocked a guy's tooth out who started a fight with him, he knows how to defend himself, he's trained various styles of kung fu and hapkido (probably from Wong In Sik).

I seen another prick write a post about "chinese martial art films all use wires".
Hello!!!!! No wires weren't used until late 80s. All classic chinese martial arts are real stunts.
Jackie Chan's Police Story the stunts are way more deathdefying that the stunts in ong bak.
Ong Bak half the reviews are from arrogant men's magazine who haven't seen a single martial art film, so half the "best stunts in the world" qoutes on the DVD cases are from narrow minded men's magazines who review nothing but latest films at the multiplex cinemas. They have no knowledge in both film language, cinema style or stunts.

I could go on and on, trying to reason with arrogant idiots on here, but I just going to finish by saying, Jaa is good, but don't disrepect Chan, Li, Hung and all the previous generation martial artist, especially if Jaa himself idolise them. (READ JAA BIOGRAPHY PROOF HE IDOLISES JACKI CHAN, BRUCE LEE AND JET LI!) (strange why martial art giant sammo hung and martial art acrobat Yuen Biao coz they are just as legendary aren't on?)
And try to keep this board about the film's content like the stunts and performances. If ur going spend post after post slagging of martial art styles goes somewhere else, this is a film board not a martial art board.

Ong Bak is good, but nowhere near the best martial arts film.
Jaa is talented, but not the best martial artist in the world. (Hello shoalin monks are incredible every single one of them even Jaa would have a hard time beating one, bruce lee brought martial arts to the west during a time of racial conflict in society)
People must be more open minded, and not just follow the DVD case with the most star ratings on.

[–] sunryze187 19 years ago

tae kwon do sucks ass, they get beaten down by any other martial arts out there.

[–] Dangerous_Lee_Handsome 19 years ago

Damn right! I've seen the tournaments during the Olympic games and it was boring as hell! Screw Tae kwan do!

[–] phillyX 19 years ago

jaa is interesting because most ppl havent seen brutalized fights like these done in such a stylish way as portrayed through ong bak and jaa. we feel the pain but aren't disgusted by it since there's almost no blood or gore or whatever.

jackie and jet li aren't brutal people(until i saw jet li in unleashed that is lol).

he also possesses an amazing acrobatic ability and he, his choreograhper and their stuntmen create some truly unique scenes not seen before. we havent seen old school jackie or jet li for SUCH a long time that this he is a much needed breath of fresh air.

i for one has never seen a man with his legs on fire flying through the air and kneeing a baddie in the chest nor have i seen somebody jump into the air and hold both his legs behind him so his knees are pointing down straight onto an opponent.. bruce lee's famous stomp comes close but even that wasn't shown.

i'm pretty damn sure u havent seen any of these either so as for this crap about repetitiveness that prob comes from u watching TKD matches... now THATS the definition of boredom and repetition.

[–] Daelock 19 years ago

Put 'em up against some folks on horseback, they'll do better.

"It is not heresy. And I will not recant."

[–] 19 years ago

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