MovieChat Forums > Ong-Bak (2005) Discussion > OVER_RATED (DETAILS INSIDE)

OVER_RATED (DETAILS INSIDE)

posted 19 years ago by t-owens81
258 replies | jump to latest

First I am going to start this off by saying that I am an active competitor and 3rd degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do and have studied enough to consider myself fairly knowledgeable in the feild of Martial Arts.

This movie is for one, over-rated. Like a psoter in another thread stated, Tony Jaa has no charisma. If you see Jackie Chan or Jet Li fight, they tell a story. They have physcology (sp?) and presence, Jaa has none of that. He does his moves which are ncie indeed, but get repetitive and boring.

On the back of the DVD case this takes a cheap shot on Jackie Chan, I know it is for promototional purposes but please. Jackie Chan and Jet Li are gods of the Martial Arts movie world, and have the experience and charisma to execute well in a film like this. The chase scene was good and Jaa showed amazing agility but hell the barrel scene in SHanghia Knights leaves that in the dust, and that is saying something. Like earlier stated, Li and Chan have physcology, they can make it comedic or show fear etc.

Jaa is skilled at Muy Tae, but his ksills dont overlap into this area. His style is more for real life fighting, not demonstration and coordinated fighting. Three reasons why the fight scenes weren't good...

1)Crappy Partners.
All of the people Jaa fought were bad. Each guy in the bar was horrifically slow and showed no skill, the main henchmen was good but not something better than on a weekly Texas Walker show.

2) Repetition.
Ok we know Jaa can jump and knee someone in the face, or elbow them in head. Ok it is good the first time, but c'mon. He does the same moves over and over and over, showing no diversity in his style. You never see him adapt to knew opponents, he jsut sticks to his basic moves and does them.

3) No storytelling.
They were just fights... that is it.

I will go to admit Jaa has some skill. He can do flips and spin kicks like nothing but he needs to do that rather than his repitive moves. Li and Chan are so great because of there fast hand to hand combat. Do we see any of that? NO.
-

Overall not a bad movie, but shouldn't be regarded as something special.

[–] Tokyoboy86 19 years ago

T-owen i think your mom is "over_rated"... Ooooooooo!!!!! ask your dad if you don't believe me

[–] tarja02 19 years ago

i disagree. so what if tony hasnt got the acting corisma that jackie or li has. big deal thats not what ong bak is about. at last a film like this has been made and came out. to show muay thai of properly. . now i loved jackie hong kong movies. but this is the kind of film that jackie never made. this ong bak is the kind of martial arts that i love . and its about time that someone made a brutal no holds bar movie like this

[–] 19 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Fearnloath 19 years ago

One of my friends was in Tae-kwon-do for about 3 years, and he got a blackbelt...Sure it gets you in shape and all that, so does Muay Thai...I've only been in it for 5 months, and I've never been in better shape in my life...This movie is Great!! Sure it does get a bit repetitive, but its also Entertaining(the reason that most people watch movies)...so whatever, in my view, This guy might be much better than Jackie chan when he gets a bit older, Hes Only 30...Jackie is 52...how can they be compared??

[–] 19 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 19 years ago

[deleted]

[–] joey_hofs13 19 years ago

T-owens81, i train in Muay Thai, and you gotta remember, Muay Thai isnt Tae Kwon Do. Muay Thai doesnt have much technique( 8 weapons, fists, kicks, knees, and elbows) but its the most effective striking art imo( and boxing for the punches). Ong Bak's one of my favorite movies, and you shouldnt watch this movie for the story its all about great action( best action imo).

[–] rugal 19 years ago

@t-owens81

sorry to tell you, but your post is one of the most ignorant i ever read on the board, and my conclusion is either your one die-hard jackie chan fan or jet-li-fan who is just pissed off, because they are getting more or less in the background or getting serious competition because of Tony Jaa. You`re complaints are insane. Tony just made 2 movies till know and youre now calling it repetitous?!?!

Ok to your points:

1)Crappy Partners.
All of the people Jaa fought were bad. Each guy in the bar was horrifically slow and showed no skill, the main henchmen was good but not something better than on a weekly Texas Walker show.

So Sa-Ming the Burmese-Fighter was just so slow and not better than on a weekly "Texay Walker" Show? Just wait a moment I have to laugh *muahahahahhaha*.;-)

Ok take a comparison: in every Chan and Li Movie there are ONLY 1 to 2 other Martial Artists that are on a par with them! The others are ALL "average" or just like you said "crappy", wanna know why? Because to show the superiority of them!

Nothing other than Ong-Bak!

And btw. have you seen Tom Yum Goong? In this movie Tony Jaa fights more than one real skilled Martial Artist!

2) Repetition.
Ok we know Jaa can jump and knee someone in the face, or elbow them in head. Ok it is good the first time, but c'mon. He does the same moves over and over and over, showing no diversity in his style. You never see him adapt to knew opponents, he jsut sticks to his basic moves and does them.

So he does only two movies and you call it Repetition? I just take this phrase of you serious when he made more than a dozen movies and he always do the same stuff. Take Jean Claude Van Damme! HE is repetitious! Always the splits and helicopter kicks, always the same moves.

And Tony Jaa INDEED can adapt to his opponent! Watch Tom Yum Goong where he fights the Capoeira-Guy. Tony fights with more acrobatic than before! And the bonebreacker-mass-scene is unrealistic but marvellous, very well adapted for a scene where he has to disable more than a dozen opponents!

3) No storytelling.
They were just fights... that is it.

...same for point 2! Just can`t take it serious, because he only made 2-3 movies (with his cameo in "The Bodyguard"). And btw. just take more than a half of Jackie Chans and Jet Lis Movies and search for a "serious" plot! You won`t find one! These are Martial Arts movies and the storytelling is "secondarily".

And last but not least, the most "ridiculously" point:

Tony Jaa has no charisma. If you see Jackie Chan or Jet Li fight, they tell a story. They have physcology (sp?) and presence, Jaa has none of that.

He indeed HAS charisma, when he executes his moves with full power on his opponents, just watch him! It`s pure Power and i have only seen such a charisma before from Bruce Lee, but not from Jackie Chan or Jet Li! And he indeed has a philosophy (not physcology) in his movies: both Ong Bak and Tom Yum Goong has got messages of traditonal buddhism and trademarks of Thailand (elefant).

[–] lemon_magic 19 years ago

I agree that Jaa is NOT an actor...Jaa doesn't have the charm and humor of Jackie Chan, or the stoic humility of Li. He doesn't even have as much range as Van Damme. The only quality he seems able to display convincingly is, well, "intensity". The movie compensates for that by having the actor playing "George" supply most of the actual human frailty and emotion for the film. Without George/Hum Lae, you really wouldn't be able to watch "Ong-Bak" as anything other than "porn fu".

The fight choreography...well, it's kickboxing, Muay Thai style. I expected to see a lot of elbows and knees, some sweeps to the ankles and some spectacular leaping and lunging kicks to the head and ribs, and that's what I got. It did get repetitive at times, and there were a few obvious setups where Jaa's opponents just stood there and let themselves get smeared with a strike that started from clear across the arena. But for the most part, the fights were still waaaay more visceral and convincing than anything Van Damme (or his imitators) did in "Kickboxer" and its many clones and ripoffs. I'm a Hsing I enthusiast, and I chuckle at most high kicking karate antics on film, but Jaa certainly has the physicality and the skills to make this stuff look GOOD.

The stunts were fun - my favorite one was the running hurdle/leap through the loop of razorwire - I don't think even Jackie Chan in his prime could have pulled that one off with such seeming ease. And I didn't think the copy on the back ("stunts that would send Jackie Chan to the chiropractor") were especially insulting - it's ad copy, folks, it's meant to hype the product and compare the new guy on a level with the legend.

Not a great movie - the screenplay was tissue thin - but I enjoyed the 'retro' feel and am glad I got a chance to see it. It'll be interesting to see if Jaa's next project is in the same vein, or if they try to make it more mainstream.

[–] bondjamesbondppk 19 years ago

what many seem to fail to take into account is that tony jaa started off as a stuntman with no sort of acting expeirence. he had studied MUAY THAI since he was young and had only done stuntwork in films. "ONG BAK" was the first movie he had a chance to star in and in my humble opinion excelled. i saw no real repetition to the fights, while throwing elbows may look similar, the combinations he used were very intense, origonal and practical. because of this movie i myself began learning muay boran. i hope to someday be able to perform half the acrobatic wonders that tony does with ease. (and without wirework or cgi effects, which makes it that much more unbelieveable)

be sure to see "TOM YUM GOONG" when it is released later this year if you want to see jaa expand his acting wings (as well as marvel you with stunts that leave ONG BAK wanting)

[–] fireyhope 19 years ago

[–] 19 years ago

[deleted]

[–] lemon_magic 19 years ago

That was well argued. I do want to see "Tom Yum Goong" someday soon.

[–] 19 years ago

[deleted]

[–] phirun_sam 19 years ago

For real son! your out of your league whats up with the hateing. I myself hold a 4th degree in Open Form (XMA) 3rd in Taekwondo with backgroud in groud fighting and Muy Thia for going on 6 years, i've been in the Martial arts sence the age of 4 i'm 26 now and still teaching i've competed within the NASKA and King Of the Cage set. So with that said i am here to back up my Friend Tony Jaa by saying this is real stuff. the stunts, kicks, punches and moves were all real. True no one will be useing 540s and 720 hook kick in a real fight but needless to say you get hit with his or my knees and i KNOW you'll get knocked out!!! yes jet li and jackie is off the hook, but give tony a brake i remeber jet and jackie's frist movies came out they too had less charisma then what they have now! On the real my mann Bruce Lee is the god of the martial arts movies to show some respect! for real, calling yourself a student of the ART and dissing someone i know will be more then willing to teach and passon the 4000 year old lifeline we know as Martial Arts!

[–] IEatPandaMeat 19 years ago

you do tae kwon do? then how the hell did you miss that tony does tae kwon do in the film? thats one of his best style. plus im thai and trust me as far as thai films go its weak on story but still awesome, and the moves get repeated because thai boxing is super structured plus, the fights are real. i mean not everyone you fight is going to be black belt or boxer.

[–] fu2_880 19 years ago

Jaa is the most realistic fighter since Bruce Lee thats that

To man that does Taekwondo:

Jaa has more skill in one leg than you do in your whole body

[–] trobot 19 years ago

...come on, this movie is all about show, n they do it good too... honestly, tony brought something new to the scene and im sure that he will not be "the king of martial arts" for to long, someone with more musclecontrol and even stupid(ier) stuntmans will soon appear onscreen =)

and i cant wait, let the chase begin ~=)

[–] tomroman 19 years ago

i have to say, to the original poster in this thread (t-owens), that tae kwon do is THE most useless and overrated fighting style in existence - muay thai on the other hand, is the most deadly and effective.

in k1 - the premier mixed fighting competition in the world - about 12 of the previous 15 world champions have muay thai as their style.

why would he therefor have to 'adapt' his style to fight people when his style is already THE most effective around?

i absolutely despise what jackie chan has done to martial arts cinema - turning the genre into nothing more than comedy - and claiming that he is a better ACTOR than jaa is laughable, seeing as they are both awful.

jet lee has made some shocking movies too, relying too much on strings and cgi.

i would bet anything that tony jaa would wipe the floor with either chan or lee in a fight.

the film is not about poking somone in the chest and having them die either - its about hitting power and speed - showing some of the most brutal and entertaining fighting ever, where tony jaa seriously has to beat down an opponent to win the fight.

its alot grittier and harder than any of chan/lee's films and is what martial arts is about - so dont critisize it for not being 'comedic', or his fights 'not telling a story'???????.

anyway - ong bak is amazing

[–] fireyhope 19 years ago

Tony Jaa's peek of acting is Tom Yum Goong
Jackie Chan's is most possibly the myth or Rumble in the Bronx

they both are pretty good actors

And Jackie Chan is getting old reallly old not, if anything Alot of people owe a debt to Jackie Chan he revitalised the HK movie Industry with his Stunts and helped alot of other people with there stunts.

And Technically alot of Chinese Martial Arts movies were cheesy back in the day not only Jacky Chan's

[–] patriciahanahan 19 years ago

Well... I just watched Ong Bak and I came to this site to say how much I loved it. I thought Tony Jaa was wonderful. He was like poetry in motion. So come to this site and I find this SUPPER LONG thread... and I end up reading every entry!

I have to say, the discussion about the various martial arts has been facinating. I didn't realized Tae Kwon Do was so controversial. Now I know nothing about Tae Kwon Do. I have taken a brief course in Mu Duk Kwon (sp?)(a Korean martial art similar to Tae Kwon Do, it may even be a type of TKD, I don't know) from my local Y. I'm here to tell you I would hate to be the one who crosses the cement breaking, supper strong, supper fast instructor that taught the course or for that matter his couple of red belt students who helped him teach it.

About belts... I think my instructor was a second degree black belt and he told me his "degree" was not high enough to grant his best student a black belt. He had to present her to some kind of assembly where she was tested and they granted her the belt. I saw her once and she was truely an amazing speciticle in action.

Well that's just my two cents.

Back to Tony Jaa... His body machanics are just amazing. He was fluid and supple. I didn't have any problem with any of the stunts. I would rather watch actual fight scenes myself than watch a bunch of car/bike/chopper stunts. I don't every remember another film where thai fighting was that enjoyable to watch.

[–] Wolfman316 19 years ago

I'd like to add myself into this discussion.

To the writer of the original post, I cringed when you mentioned Tae Kwon Do.

It further proves my point that the majority of Tae Kwon Do competitors are big-headed and arrogant to the ways of the Arts.

Now, to the Tae Kwon Do is more effective than Muay Thai arguement, have you ever heard of the documentated story when a Kung Fu, Karate and Tae Kwon Do expert went to Thailand to find out what makes Muay Thai so good, or better then Tae Kwon Do, Karate and Kung Fu? They know how to take and give out pain. Plus, they don't spend their time mucking around with fancy techniques. Muay Thai is a FIGHTING ART. It isn't there to look cool and to attract more people, and this is saying something since I study Shotokan Karate (The master of wich, Funakoshi, helped CREATE Tae Kwon Do). So, the Tae Kwon Do guy went to fight a May Thai veteran, and lsot in a matter of 30 seconds. How? The Muay Thai broke the TKD's competitor over his leg, blocking a leaping spin kick. Look it up, it's a true story.

Now, onto the reptitiveness. "WHY FIX SOMETHING IF IT AIN'T BROKEN?" If I knew I could kill people with my elbows and knees, why change my attacks?

[–] kaxmy 19 years ago

I'm here just to share my idea about the current situation of Muay Thai. I come from Thailand and my father practiced Muay Thai when he was young. He's proud of our national martial art (despite the fact that he's a Chinese descend). He tells me all the time that Muay Thai is the world's deadliest. It's only a shame that today Muay Thai in Thailand is primarily aimed for gambling. It's close to impossible to find a great fighter like Tony Jaa in real life. Frankly speaking, according to my opinion, current fighters have lost the real "art and spirit" of Muay Thai (and they don't even care!) All they need is only some basic boxing skills which lack of dignity, aesthetics, and most importantly, fatalness. They all fight for money only. I always feel embarassed when seeing foreigners who are interested in Muay Thai sitting ringside of the stage and watch the fights. If this situation continues, I can foresee that in the future, the art of Muay Thai (I mean the traditional one) will exist from this country because it's almost impossible to find successors who truly value this treasure. I feel sad to tell you that you might have to go outside Thailand to find those who seriously study Muay Thai.

[–] ezelotaku 19 years ago

First of all, Tony Jaa studied several martial arts in a sort of "stunt man university" or something like that. His training included Taekwondo and probably a bit of every martial art seen in movies.

Second, Tae Kwon Do is not the worst style, it's just too spread and there are so many instructors that a real good one is hard to find. Where I come from (Argentina) there are a couple of styles that were invented by locals based on asian martial arts (some even claim they're real ancient and secret styles) and those styles suck the most.

Third, you can't really talk about kung fu or karate in general. Kung Fu is just a term to refer to all chinese styles, and in Karate there are lots of Ryus (schools).

Fourth, I believe a good fighter knows a bit about everything (hands, kicks, elbows, grappling, etc.). He knows somethings better and somethings he knows how to dodge or escape from or whatchamacallit.

Fifth, and last, I personally believe that it's more about the practitioner of the style being good and less about the style being good. If the style, traditional or modern, truly teaches self defense it's up to the student to train to be able to use it.

About the movie, I saw it three times I liked it a lot. Not the BEST martial arts movie ever but a very very good one non the less.

[–] Guinness4h2o 19 years ago

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5585460401345378983&q=muay+thai

...is it just me, or does the Japanese guy get his s--t ruined?

i don't know anything about martial arts, but i know an ass kicking when i see one...i'm irish :-P

[–] 19 years ago

[deleted]

[–] hari_krhs 19 years ago

don't say about jackie's earlier performance cause he was the best in the earlier time. this is not because i like him but i can't stand this overrating an actor because he did something in his debut...atleast try not to compare his performance with legendry stars.....