The Dad wasn't that bad


I've seen quite a bit of discussion on this board and in other places and most people seem to think the Dad is basically evil.

Which I found quite surprising really. I've noticed in real life that in most divorces fathers are often disliked by children, so maybe people are just carrying over their own feelings?

I think some of the qualities of the Dad appear a bit obnoxious but when you think about it they aren't so bad. So he's arrogant, elitist and very cheap.

But he's a well respected writer and professor of literature. His life is discussing and creating art. He is clearly quite a bit of a jerk about it, but that is his passion and his life. If he were a famous athlete and he called none athletic people lazy or amateurs I don't think most people would call him arrogant. Yet calling uncultured people philistines makes him evil? And a lot of his criticisms are either pretty much general consensus. Sure he is a bit rude but he's not that bad.

When he accepts money from the girlfriend and is accused of doing joint custody to save money that seems cheap but it is also made pretty clear that he is struggling with money. No one even seems to care that the mother gets the really nice house and the father has to start out all over again.

It's clear that he is being a jerk when he tells his sons about the mother cheating. And there's no real excuse because it is very petty. But he clearly had a liberal relationship with his son and his son asked. On top of that he had no one to talk to and it had been eating him up for four years. He hadn't gone out and cheated and he didn't have another person like his wife did. And even though the mother brought around the guys she was *beep* to meet the kids, the Dad is still the jerk.

Then I guess one other big point is that he wasn't around so much when the boys were young. But a lot of fathers do this and it's not because they are jerks. Men just often can't connect with children until they get a bit older.

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"If he were a famous athlete and he called none athletic people lazy or amateurs I don't think most people would call him arrogant."

You serious? If I heard Michael Phelps call people lazy or amateurs I would lose all respect for him. Same goes for all pro athletes. It's about bigotry which is just unforgiving.

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I agree wholeheartedly with you. I actually thought he was kind of a cool dad. I liked both parents, really. Then I started reading reviews and comments and everyone seemed to hate the parents and especially Bernard, and I wondered if I was watching it wrong. But actually, Baumbach has said that he intended it to be a multifaceted portrayal of people modelled after his parents, that have both good and bad characteristics. He was surprised and pained to find so many people seeing the portrayal as mostly negative.

And yeah: I don't know why people say the dad was "cheap" when maybe he's just really short of money. I wondered why the mom got the nice house. Was she independently wealthy or something?

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Maybe you have to have had more than a brief encounter with someone who has Narcissistic Personality Disorder to realize how evil, the very definition of evil i.e. someone who cannot feel empathy for another human being, they are. These are the pool of people, along with people along the Sociopathic Personality Disorder spectrum, that serial killers are drawn from FFS. I'm not overstating the case one iota. Anyone who has had a relationship with someone that has this would recognize it in the character immediately, Jeff Daniels absolutely nailed it. If you haven't, it's harder to spot, just as in real life, which is part of why these creatures can prey on others fairly easily for quite awhile.

With how epidemic NPD is in our society, clinicians say it is skyrocketing, I guarantee you have come across at least a couple of these people in your life, but you obviously haven't been close enough to them to feel the full brunt of the insanity of their condition. It can literally drive you crazy yourself. Count yourself among the blessed.

The wife left evidence of her infidelity because she was wanted to force his hand and have him make the decision to end the marriage. That is the reason she was unfaithful, she wanted to escape. If it was his decision, the divorce, custody, etc., would have gone much more smoothly. If it was hers, the affront to his deficient and easily shattered ego would all but guarantee that he would make her life as hellish as possible in regards to the arrangements. Which he ended up doing.

The more I read of the comments on here, the more I'm realizing that you need to understand some of the basics of Narcissistic Personality Disorder to understand the film, maybe akin to Autism for understanding a movie like Rain Man.

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Jesus, Turkey, don't be difficult.

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I would not say the father was "evil," however he was a severely flawed human who did not understand his faults. I witnessed numerous divorces of parent's of childhood friends that were very similar to what played out in this film.

The father thought he was going to write the next great novel and was frustrated. Rather than be grateful for his wife's success he resented it and it hurt him. I have seen many men not be able to deal with their wife being more successful.

He also really believed he did nothing wrong to cause the pending divorce that he never soul searched and asked himself "what did I do wrong?" So many people make that mistake that there next marriage(s) also fail.

He also was giving his eldest son some very bad relationship advice. An important thing divorced parents need to do is tell their kids that although their marriage did not work out that they care for their former husband or wife and have no regrets.

While not being "evil" the father had many issues and his choices post the divorce were hurting his kids. He needed to make sure his kids were OK and was more focused on his own suffering.

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He was a real dick.

Schrodinger's cat walks into a bar, and / or doesn't.

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