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Explanation of a Masterpiece - All Your Questions Answered (3rd edition)


(I’m reposting this as a new thread, because my first one had nearly 450 posts and the second one had 298, making it take too long to load and IMDB now limits threads to 300 posts).

This film is a brilliant masterpiece. While most viewers are confused after the first viewing, as was I, when viewed again, the pieces start coming together, moving immediately from a confusing set of jumbled up scenes, to an absolutely brilliant work of art. I will assure you, if you take the time to read this post, your questions will be answered, and your confusion will turn to awe. Furthermore, I will say that every scene, every action in the film has significance.. If anything is left unanswered here, please feel free to post your question. I've seen this film at least 15 times now; I love it, understand it, and believe I can offer a credible explanation to most any question. (such as, what the hec was the seizure scene about?, Why does Su-mi look oddly at the duplicate journal on the desk and dresses in the closet? What's up with the bloody fish in the fridge?, and What really happened to the Step-mom in the end?, to name a few)

(Major Spoilers Ahead)


To begin with, one must first understand, that from the opening scene, until the scene near the end where Eun-joo, (the step-mother), arrives at the house in a gray suit, the only people in the house were Su-mi, and her father. (Excepting a brief dinner visit by the couple). Su-mi’s sister Su-yeon, and her step-mother Eun-joo were existent only in Su-mi's mind. However, there are a few scenes where we see the ghosts of Su-yeon and her mother.

The next thing one must understand is that this film, while being a horror film, is more so a psychological thriller and a drama. It is a story of incredible regret, and the inability to cope with guilt and remorse. When the viewer realizes for the first time what is really going on, their heart has no choice but to break for Su-mi.

Through later flashbacks, we are led to believe that the girls' mother suffered some illness or depression, requiring the presence in the home of Eun-joo, who seems to be a nurse of some sort (further evidenced by some of the pictures). It is rather subjective here, but either she was having an affair with the father, or perhaps Su-mi just believed that she was. In either case, the flashbacks, which I believe to be factual and reality, indicate a great deal of animosity and bitterness between Eun-joo and Su-mi. The mother commits suicide, and Su-yeon, finding her, panics, pulling the wardrobe over and is crushed. Su-mi, hearing this, begins to investigate but allows her bitter feelings for Eun-joo to override her concern for what she heard. Eun-joo, realizing this, drops a line telling her that she will regret it, knowing full well how deep this will cut later, as she knows Su-yeon is dying at that very moment. Upon realizing what has happened, Su-mi has a mental and emotional collapse. She is committed to a mental hospital for a period of time, and upon being released, we find ourselves at the movie's beginning.

Su-yeon was everything to Su-mi, yet she wasn't there for her when she needed her the most. And what's worse, she wasn't there because she chose to embrace her hatred for Eun-joo instead. Finding that, in the real world, she was incapable of coping with the tremendous degree of regret and guilt, Su-mi subconsciously looks for a way to escape the pain. One could say that she tries a form of self-induced psychological therapy. First she creates Su-yeon, so she can have her back and "be there for her". Of course, this required that she have someone to protect her from, therefore, she also creates Eun-joo. It is also interesting to note that she can play out the part of any of the three, while imagining the other two. Su-mi starts her therapy by creating situations where she can "Be there" for here sister. She comforts her when things go bump in the night. She helps her with her first period. (slight give-a-way when all 3 have their period at the same time). And when the girls leave the table after the confrontation with Eun-joo, Su-mi reassures Su-yeon that she will be there for her. All situations that take place in Su-mi's mind, created to give her a second chance.

Finding herself still under the weight of guilt and remorse, Su-mi increases the therapy. She creates situations of a more serious nature. She imagines Su-yeon having bruised arms, and being locked in the wardrobe. This gives her opportunities to be there for her sister in situations that are far more desperate. Unfortunately, the therapy's effectiveness is slipping, as indicated by the fact that while she did rescue Su-yeon from the wardrobe, it was not in a timely manner. She actually repeats this scene numerous times, as indicated when she told her father, "She KEEPS locking Su-yeon in the closet". At this point, Daddy drops the bomb, reminding Su-mi that Su-yeon is dead.

Her therapy threatened, Su-mi panics, as she can't bare to return to reality, for it is far to painful. Making one last frantic attempt, she turns the level of self-induced therapy all the way up. Now she creates extreme situations, ones of life and death; situations requiring Su-mi to "be there for her sister when she needed her the most". She imagines Su-yeon in a bag, bloody, beaten nearly to death. The guilt and remorse, however, are greater than the therapy. This is exemplified by the fact that, while Su-yeon is apparently still moving, she is all but dead, and Su-mi is all but too late. Su-mi is totally falling apart now. She becomes desperate, even injuring herself. Guilt and remorse are closing in for the kill. Next we find Su-mi in the scene that really broke me. She's lying on her back, with Eun-joo hovering above (now the symbol of the guilt and remorse that so relentlessly chases her). Realizing the futility of her actions, Su-mi says "Do you know what's really scary? You want to forget something. Totally wipe it off your mind. But you never can. It can't go away, you see. And... and it follows you around like a ghost." It is at this point that Su-mi realizes that she has only one cure, only one way to escape this pain....death. For the first time since early on in the film, we see peace and even a slight smile on her face, as she fully expects to die, thus not hurt any more.

Not so, as the father now arrives home, bringing the real Eun-joo with him...another shocking revelation to Su-mi, who at this point was back in "Eun-joo mode" and sitting on the couch. Su-mi returns to the hospital, while Eun-joo gets to meet the ghost of Su-yeon…or does she?

Now find below some common questions.

1. WHAT'S WITH THE SEIZURE BY THE DINNER GUEST THAT SEEMED SO OUT OF PLACE? It is not, I repeat NOT, a seizure, such as an epileptic would have. First of all, if she were in fact epileptic, her husband would have known this, but he didn't. This is obvious by the look on his face, and the fact that they tried to give her medication. Web MD states that you never give anything by mouth to someone having a seizure, just help him or her to the floor, and move objects away. So, what was it? What was taking place was a supernatural manifestation of Su-yeon's ghost, reenacting Su-yeon's death. Notice the similarities. First, the camera deliberately focuses on the hand trimmers here, and in the scene where Su-yeon is crushed, obviously pointing the two incidents to each other. Also she doesn't just fall over, but slams to the floor, as if being thrown down, as Su-yeon was by the wardrobe. And, she panics, gasps for air, and throws up, all things Su-yeon was likely to have done when she was crushed. This explanation is also supported by the fact that Su-yeon's ghost is present at the scene, under the sink.

2. WHAT'S UP WITH THE BLOODY FISH IN THE FRIDGE? As stated earlier, this is a story of incredible guilt and remorse. Su-mi feels that it is her fault her sister died, because she wasn't there for her. She feels like she has Su-yeon's blood on her hands. Notice how many times this is reflected upon. At the beginning, we find a psychiatrist, intently washing his hands before an interview?? This was a hint as to what the story was going to be about...ridding one's self of feelings of guilt, similar to Pilot washing his hands after he gave Jesus over to be crucified. Handling the fish seems strange; however it causes Su-mi to have blood on her hands. Likewise, when she rose from bed prior to the scene concerning the menstrual periods, she again had blood on her hands. During Su-mi's dream, the camera tightly focuses on her bloody hand twice. Remember that these were not real scenes, but ones taking place in Su-mi's mind. Her mind refuses to let her off the hook, constantly reminding her that she is to blame for her sister's death, relentlessly telling her that Su-yeon's blood is on her hands. Even when she imagined being in a fierce fight with Eun-joo, she stabs herself, of all places, in the hand, once again placing "blood on her hands". Finally, when her father puts her on the couch, again the camera deliberately focuses on their hands. As he pulls his hand away, not only does Su-mi have blood on her hand, but so does he. How fitting.

3. WHEN SU-MI FIRST ENTERS THE ROOM IN THE BEGINNING, WHY DOES SHE LOOK SO BEWILDERED AT THE JOURNAL AND THE DRESSES IN HER CLOSET? (All of which were alike, either of only two colors). Su-mi is obviously a very troubled and confused girl. She is taking on quite a task trying to remove her guilt by creating this illusionary world. And, she doesn't just do the scenes once. It's a repeated thing, as she tries to find a way to escape the pain. As discussed before, the scenario of Su-yeon being locked in the closet happened several times. It is reasonable to assume that she repeated most if not all the scenarios, until they no longer worked, whereby she moved to the next stage. Being confused, she would forget that she had been here before, that she had acted out this scene several times, but her mind would remember bits and pieces, such as she had already brought the journal into the room on a previous enactment. Likewise, the dresses symbolize the same thing; she has been here many times before.

4. WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE TARP COVERED MOUND IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD. Quite frankly, nothing. It's a matter of culture. This is a common site in rural farming areas of South Korea, during harvest. I certainly didn't know this myself, and actually checked it out, frame by frame, trying to figure it out. Then I read somewhere, an explanation by someone originally from South Korea, who stated that this was the case. It would be kind of like someone from another country watching an American film and seeing for example, two wooden crosses on the side of the road. Not understanding our culture or customs, they may think it’s pertinent to the film, when in truth, it represents a fatal accident in real life, having nothing to do with the movie.

5. WHAT IS THE CONFUSING DINNER CONVERSATION ABOUT, WHERE THE MALE GUEST BECOMES IRRIATED WITH EUN-JOO? The male guest is Eun-joo's brother. However, the Eun-joo at the dinner table is actually Su-mi acting out her "Eun-joo" personality. For the personality to work, she must know her brother, and have memories of their childhood, therefore she starts telling childhood stories of when they were growing up. Since, in reality, this is Su-mi, the memories are fictitious. Instead of seeing it from Su-mi's (in Eun-joo mode) perspective, which is what is shown in this scene, look at it from the young man's perspective. He sees Su-mi, not Eun-joo, who is telling stories of their childhood, as if she is his sister; memories of events that never took place. He is thinking, "Girl, you are totally messed up".

6. WHAT'S DOES THE FIRST BEDROOM HORROR SCENE MEAN? The first dream is just a dream brought on by all the mixed up thoughts of Su-mi. The subsequent one, while appearing to be a dream, is not just a simple dream, but one brought on by the ghost of her mother. But why would she haunt Su-mi? Well, she is very displeased with the thought of her daughter pretending to be this "other woman" that destroyed their home, and perhaps forced her to suicide, and allowed her daughter to die. Standing over Su-mi, she has blood running down her leg, then a hand. In a creepy way, she is symbolizing childbirth, but hey, she is a ghost. The purpose is to say, "What do you think you're doing, How could you presume to be this other woman that I hate. You're my daughter, my flesh and blood, I GAVE BIRTH TO YOU! Snap out of it".

7. WHEN EUN-JOO'S SISTER-IN-LAW WAS ON THE FLOOR HAVING HER LITTLE SU-YEON EXPERIENCE, WAS THERE ANY SPECIFIC REASON WHY THE GHOST OF SU-YEON WAS UNDER THE SINK LOOKING DECOMPOSED OR BURNT? Actually, being a two-part question, I'll address as such. First, concerning the significance of the placement in this scene, it would seem kind of strange at first, but consider this. As stated above, Su-yeon in causing a supernatural manifestation of herself and her death to take place here through Mi-hee, (the sister-in-law). I don't believe that it is arbitrary, or haphazard that she is under the sink. This is an extremely cramped, confined space, where physically she really couldn't fit, much the same as the extremely cramped confined space she died in, and at that very moment, is re-enacting through Mi-hee.. Now, as for her appearance, this is dried blood, rather than burnt flesh, as there is no other reference that would point to burning. She is shown this way for two reasons. The first was for shock effect. Let's face it, can anyone imagine a more innocent, humble face that Su-yeon? I can't. However, this sweet face would hardly serve the purpose in this scene, therefore, they show her bloody, or decayed for the shock effect. The second reason for her appearance is to disguises her identity, as we are not to know yet that Su-yeon is dead.

8. WHY DO THE BROTHER AND MI-HEE COME OVER FOR DINNER WITHOUT STEPMUM BEING THERE? Well, as shown from the flashbacks, there is quite a bit of animosity between Su-mi and Eun-joo, and the father knows this. (Even if the affair was in Su-mi's mind, Su-mi still hates Eun-joo) Because of this, during the phone call the father told the real Eun-joo that it wouldn't be good for her to come up right now. However, he felt that Su-mi could benefit from some social interaction

9. DOES THE STEPMOM DIE AFTER SU-YEON’S GHOST COMES OUT OF THE WARDROBE? While experiencing this incredible film, the viewer is mercilessly led into the troubled mind of this young girl, while simultaneously being lead through the dark heart of this haunted house. Subsequently, they find themselves in a delightfully frustrating situation. Was a particular scene real, or was it not? Was it psychological or supernatural?
In short, no, Eun-joo doesn't die. This whole scene is once again in Su-mi's mind. Su-mi was robbed of her fantasy therapy of imagining herself as Su-yeon when her dad drops the reality bomb on her. She panics and starts imagining really drastic events, even to the point of stabbing herself. Next she is robbed of imagining she is Eun-joo, when the real Eun-joo shows up, and off she goes back to the psych ward. Now, not only does she not have her means of self-induced therapy, and thus her means of coping with her pain, she also feels totally defeated by this woman whom she absolutely hates, and knows allowed her sister to die. She wants vengeance against Eun-joo, but the only way to get it is to return to her imagination. She has to accept Su-yeon as dead, at least for the time being. Therefore, she envisions in her head, (and I'm sure it's very real to her), the death of Eun-joo at the hands of Su-yeon's ghost. We know this to be true for several reasons.
(A) The blood seeping up from the floor is obviously reflecting on the blood seen earlier from the bloody bag. However, the bloody trail and bloody bag were in Su-mi's mind, therefore, if we are seeing evidence of the blood trail again, we must be once again in Su-mi's mind.
(B) The wardrobe. Notice in this scene that the wardrobe is in Su-yeon's room. It shouldn't be there. It is downstairs now in the same room as the medicine cabinet. It really is downstairs, as the father is seen viewing it after Su-mi's stabs her hand. He must have moved it from her room after the accident.
(C) The pictures. There were pictures in the frames just the day before, when the father walked into Su-yeon's bedroom and confronted Su-mi, then dropped the bomb about Su-yeon being dead. Now, in this scene, the frames are empty. Seems Su-mi finally accepts her sister as dead and gone, (for the time being anyway), thus subconsciously she imagines the picture frames barren, just as she feels.
(D) Su-mi, at the hospital, turns and says "Su-yeon". She's at the hospital when she says this. The next scene, we see Eun-joo in the house, alone. Then we go back and forth from this scene, to Su-mi's flashbacks. When the "fate" scene is over, then we see Su-mi laying in the hospital, with a tear down her face. Point is, we were in her mind during all of this; the flashbacks she was remembering, and the vengeance she was desiring, all jumbled up together in this poor girls head. Dang, I hurt for her still, and I've seen this film nearly 20 times.
(E) The running that Eun-joo hears. Early in the film, Su-mi imagines running in the hall as a method of awaking Su-yeon, and also herself so she can go to her own bed, in order to be there for her imaginary Su-yeon when she arrives frightened by the running, and the door creaking and slamming. All of course as a method of Su-mi's self therapy.
(F) While there were hauntings, namely the bedroom scene, and the kitchen scene, the primary premise of the film up to this point has been that Su-mi lives in a delusional world where she imaginations what she needs to serve her purpose. Throughout the film, she imagines increasingly serious situations where she can “be there” for her sister, in order for her to cope with the guilt and remorse of not being there when she needed to be. This is how she has come to deal with her trauma. Now, in the hospital once again, she’s faced with a new challenge; “How can I enact revenge, (justice), on this woman who now holds my arm and pretends she cares, as father stands watching” She faces this challenge the same way she faced the other; she imagines what she desires.
(G) As “yurichar” points out on another post, this “fate” scene takes place at night, however, when over, we immediately see Su-mi in hospital, but it’s daytime. This strongly indicates that Su-mi was imagining, (wishing), Eun-joo’s ghostly death.
Personally for me, while subjectivity is certainly permissible here, the notion of this poor girl, stuck in the hospital, still living in a delusional world, and still trying to imagine her way out of her problems, is so sad. It gives the film a much deeper sense of feeling than just knowing that Eun-joo got what was coming to her.

(Due to length, questions continued on next post)


"Do you know what's really scary? You want to forget something. Totally wipe it off your mind. But you never can. It can't go away, you see. And... and it follows you around like a ghost."

reply

(Continued)

10. KNOWING THAT IN THE KITCHEN SCENE SU-YEON IS A GHOST, AND IN THE “EUN-JOO FATE” SCENE SHE IS IN SU-MI’S MIND, WHAT ABOUT THE REST OF THE TIME? During the remainder of the film Su-yeon is shown as a sweet innocent young girl. Now during the flashbacks, she is obviously real, not a ghost or hallucination; it is a flashback. As for the rest of the time, some viewers have tried to assert that she is a ghost that follows Su-mi around. This is not so, for many reasons, the first being that the whole premise of the film is centered on Su-mi’s hallucinations as an attempt to relieve her pain and remorse. As stated in the opening above, Su-mi creates Su-yeon to have her back to protect. Then she creates Eun-joo to provide at threat to protect her from. There are many proofs to Su-yeon being a hallucination, but one of the best single proofs comes from my good friend “chris-childress-1” who points out that Su-mi’s Eun-joo personality locks Su-yeon in the closet. Now if Su-yeon is a hallucination, then this of course is entirely possible, and in fact logical, as Su-mi creates a situation to rescue her sister from.. However, if Su-yeon is a ghost, how could a hallucination of Su-mi possibly control or abuse a ghost?

11. WHO WAS THE GHOST IN THE GREEN DRESS SITTING AT THE TABLE DURING THE "UNDER THE SINK" SCENE? She was wearing the same dress as Su-yeon was under the sink. We know this was Su-yeon's dress because not only does she wear it under the sink, but it can be seen in the wardrobe, prior to when Su-yeon pulls it over on herself. Some viewers believe the ghost a the table was the mother because she had long hair. Su-yeon never had long hair, even in the earlier photographs, while the mother did. However, the girl at the table in the green dress, and standing in front of the sink, and under the sink are all Su-yeon. Notice we never see them at the same time. Also notice that all three had on the green dress. The mother wouldn’t fit in Su-yeon’s dress. Su-yeon never had long hair, as the girl at the table, but they might be going on the myth that hair grows after death. More importantly, keeping with Asian tradition, female ghosts are usually portrayed as long haired and vengeful.


12. DURING THE FLASHBACK, WHEN THE GIRL’S REAL MOTHER IS SEEN IN HER BEDROOM, AND THEN IN THE WARDROBE, WAS THIS REAL? Once again we find ourselves in one of those subjective areas, where the director encourages us to exercise our minds, while simultaneously granting us flexibility. The mother obviously had some psychological issues going on herself, depression at the least. When she died, not only was she depicted as having hung herself in the closet, but pills were shown also, implying an overdose. The mother took her life. Now this opens up another thought, which can be taken either of two directions. Did she really die in the wardrobe? The scenes imply that she did. However, would she kill herself in a place where she knew Su-yeon of all people would find her? Could she actually hang herself in such a small place? Maybe… however, there isn’t any “drop” to generate the force needed to break her neck.
This might lead us to think she killed herself elsewhere, perhaps in the woods.
We know the mother has some psychological issues going on. Su-mi’s obviously has some of her own, as she simply imagines what she needs to solve her problems. This propensity for psychological conditions apparently hereditary, what if Su-yeon shared the trait? During the flashback, the mother wasn't there when Su-yeon fell onto the bed crying, yet Su-yeon really needed her comfort. Conveniently enough, we then see Mom comforting her. Furthermore, being subconsciously directed, Su-mi didn't have full control over what her mind created. If Su-yeon were in fact like her sister, she wouldn’t have full control either, thus the wardrobe suicide scene. The details of where and how the mother died would probably have been withheld from Su-yeon, being young as she was. Therefore, she might have coupled the mystery of how and where her mother died with a childhood fear of the closet, creating the of her mother in the wardrobe..
I leave this previous paragraph in place to give the reader food for thought, however, after much discussion with some other viewers, now friends, on a sister post, I find myself preferring a different view. The mother did in fact kill herself in the wardrobe, via an overdose, the day Su-yeon found her. The sheet around her neck was used to keep her in place. The mother’s body can be seen in the fallen wardrobe as Eun-joo enters the room, strongly suggesting that it was truly there. The mother comforting Su-yoen on the bed was actually the mother’s ghost, unbeknownst to Su-yeon. The fact that the mother knew she would never be there for her daughter again is the source of her own tears. This same realization may have even led to the mother, as a ghost, to open the wardrobe doors a bit, knowing Su-yeon would investigate, and as a result die. She would rather have her daughter with her, than for her to be left in this miserable setting without her.

13. WAS STEMMUM JUST A COLLEAGUE OF DAD'S TENDING TO A SICK MOTHER? OR, WAS SHE IN FACT HAVING AN AFFAIR WITH THE FATHER? She was definitely a colleague, as shown in the pictures. From the flashbacks, and the pictures, we can see she was in the home regularly also. I actually looked back, in slow motion, at the photographs, especially when the FATHER looked at them. I almost expected Eun-joo not to be BESIDE the father in the family pictures when HE viewed them, which would strongly imply that the whole affair thing was in Su-mi's head. However that was not the case. The reality of the affair may be somewhat subjective, however I believe that it happened.. Here are a couple reasons why. To me, for the most part flashbacks are represented as factual. In those, the uncle and Mi-hee were there for dinner. This wouldn't likely have happened if Eun-joo was just the house nurse. Also Eun-joo wouldn't have shown such animosity, much less allow Su-yeon to die, if she were simply the house nurse.

14. IN SU-MI'S DREAM WITH THE WOODS BEHIND THE HOUSE, THERE IS A GLIMPSE OF A GIRL WITH LONG HAIR (LOOKING AT HER HANDS). WHO IS SHE? This is Su-yeon, at an earlier time. Credit given to Chris-Childres for discovering that Su-mi, while dreaming, was calling Su-yoen’s name. This isn’t shown in the Tartan subtitles, but I checked a Thai.version that I also own, and it is subtitled there. Su-mi says “Su-yeon, go away” Through discussion with Chris, some other viewer friends, and myself on a sister post here, I believe we have a good interpretation of the dream’s meaning. The situation is urgent; Su-yeon is running, obviously in a hurry to reach something. Su-mi, lying in bed, is trying to tell her to stay away. We see next the mother, and as Su-yoen grabs her arm, she gets bloody. The meaning? Reflect now on Su-yeon’s death. Finding her mother’s body, Su-yeon desperately and hopelessly tries to save her, resulting in her own death. In the dream, Su-mi is trying to tell her sister to stay away from her mother, knowing the resultant contact will bring her death. Just as Su-yeon was desperate at the wardrobe, she is desperate in the dream, (running), to save her mother. And, just as contact with her mother’s body at the wardrobe brought her death, Su-yeon’s contact with her mother’s arm draws back blood, symbolic of her death.

15. WAS EUN-JOO REALLY CRUEL ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY LET SU-YEON DIE? Eun-joo supposedly has moved in and set up camp, breaking up this family. She would rather be accepted by the daughters, as it would make her little stolen life peachy. However, the girls won't have it, and won't accept her. This throws a wrench into her plans. Su-mi especially despises her. When Eun-joo enters Su-yeon's bedroom, she considers this accident as an opportunity to rid herself of half, (or probably 1/3) of her problem. She leaves with this thought in mind, but she just is not quite that cold, therefore, she reconsiders. As she starts to return to the bedroom, the other 2/3's of her problem comes out of her room. The bitter words from Su-mi are enough to cause her to reconsider again. Eun-joo justifies it to herself by thinking, “O.K., fine, you asked for it”. She is fed up with Su-mi, and despises her so much for not accepting her into their home and lives. This could spoil her happy plans. She hates Su-mi so much by this time that she is willing to let Su-yeon die, just to create the emotionally fatal blow that she knows Su-mi will receive. She even spices it up by telling her that she will regret this moment. She knows that this will destroy Su-mi, and it does.

16. WHAT WAS THE ITEM ON THE FLOOR IN FRONT OF THE SINK THAT EUN-JOO ATTEMPTED TO PICK UP? The item on the floor is Su-yeon's hairpin. She can be seen wearing it in the flashback scene as she empties her rice bowl into the sink. This further proves that it is in fact Su-yeon under the sink. (As to why she's under the sink, refer to question #7).

17. THE FATHER WAS SHOWN IN BED WITH HIS DAUGHTER; WAS THERE ANYTHING INAPPROPRIAT GOING ON BETWEEN THEM? The father lies down with what appears at first to be Eun-joo. However, we see later that it is in fact Su-mi, and of course the father knows this. Being inappropriate, he goes downstairs after a while to sleep on the couch. But only after lying there a moment, clothed, respectfully reminiscing of something that he knows he has lost-an affectionate father/daughter relationship. (Again, I mean this in a respectful way) Knowing that it would be inappropriate to sleep there with her, he soon gets up to sleep downstairs.

18. IN THE FINAL SCENE, AS SU-MI WALKS AWAY FROM THE HOUSE, SHE TURNS AROUND. WHY? The fact that she hesitates shows that Su-mi knows she SHOULD be concerned for her sister. This is why she goes through so much trauma, beating herself up with guilt. She willingly chose to indulge in her bitter feelings towards Eun-joo rather than to be concerned for her sister, and she knows this. The noise she heard from Su-yeon's room is quickly forgotten during the argument. She remembers this noise again outside. Concerned, she hesitates, considering returning. However, she decides that returning isn't worth dealing with Eun-joo again. Furthermore, she took so much pride in telling Eun-joo that “Anywhere would be better than being here with you”. To return would nullify Su-mi’s cutting statement to Eun-joo. This decision will never leave her. Su-mi doesn't know if Su-yeon died before she came out of her room, or while she was on the stairs arguing, or after she left the house. All she knows is that she heard the noise in Su-yeon's room, that the noise was in fact the wardrobe falling on Su-yeon, and because of her bitterness toward Eun-joo, she chose not to investigate, causing her to not be there for her sister when her sister needed her the most. Thus she feels like it is her fault that Su-yeon died.

19. IF SU-YEON WAS IN SU-MI’S HEAD, HOW DID SHE GET THE CHANT “TERRI TAKOOM, TERRI TAKOOM? I struggle with this one. Every explanation or interpretation I';ve given so far, I fully believe is accurate. Even if it isn't necessarily the intention of the director, I believe they work perfectly. I can't say that of this response. I love the eerie feeling given when Su-yeon says "Terri Takoom, Terri Takoom" (not sure if spelled right). However, I can't give an explanation without sounding like I'm trying to make it fit. One could say, well the mom's ghost had someway contacted Su-yeon, but this isn't Su-yeon, its Su-mi's created personality of Su-yeon. My only attempt at an explanation is this. The ways in which the ghosts of Su-yeon and the mother reacted with Su-mi depended on which personality Su-mi was in.. In Su-mi's bed, the mother demonstrates frustration at Su-mi for pretending at times to be Eun-joo. (Read question #6 of this post). Su-yeon haunted Su-mi's Eun-joo personality in the kitchen because, even thought it was really Su-mi, she was in Eun-joo mode.. It is possible the mom also interacted with Su-mi's Su-yeon personality at some point. With no reason to be angry with Su-yeon, she instead gives her this chant to call upon her. She certainly wouldn't have had a reason to haunt the Su-yeon personality, as she did the other two personalities. This is the only interpretation I can come up with to explain Su-yeon's actions in this scene.

20.WHY DID SU-MI CHANGE THE CLOCK IN HER BEDROOM? I believe this had to do with the fact that she relived theses events in her mind several times. For instance, she told her father that Eun-joo “keeps locking Su-yeon in the closet”. Also the multiple identical dresses and diaries are in her mind, a result of being confused. She’s been here and done this before, but only bits and pieces are remembered, showing up in the replay to confuse her. When she originally came home from the hospital, it was at a specific time. However, her replay of the event might happen at a different time of day. Seeing a different time of day on the clock than it was supposed to be for the time of her return might be what bothered her.

21. WHEN THE FATHER IS SHAVING, WHAT WAS IT THAT SU-MI SAID TO EUN-JOO, CAUSING HER TO RESPOND “WHAT? I CAN’T BELIEVE YOU’RE SAYIN G THAT AGAIN” Eun-joo is referring to a very specific conversation; a very pivotal point in Su-mi's life. During the flashback, while Su-yeon is dying, Su-mi and Eun-joo have their confrontation by the stairs. (This is the real Eun-joo and a real confrontation of coarse). Eun-joo tells Su-mi that she will regret this, and Su-mi tells her that “Anywhere is better than being there with her”. This is the moment in time that haunts Su-mi , and this is what causes her to loose touch with reality, and become "sick". She finds out later that she does regret it, more than she can bear. Her own actions and words seal her fate. Su-yeon's death itself was probably more than she could have coped with, but her words here, and the subsequent reaction to them, (her leaving without investigating the noise), are what plunge her into relentless guilt, regret and remorse. Su-mi's words here by the stairs will haunt her forever
Now, this is where her subconscious, psychological therapy gets really interesting. As stated above, Su-mi creates the Eun-joo personality to provide a threat to Su-yeon, giving Su-mi the opportunity to "be there" for Su-yeon. Her purpose is to escape the incredible regret and remorse of letting her sister die, regret brought on by her fateful words, which called for her to leave the scene. However, her guilt is RELENTLESS, and it causes her psychological therapy to backfire. Su-mi meant for the Eun-joo personality to help her, but instead, her guilt uses it to remind her of her words and actions. Guilt says "I'm not going to let you forget what you said", so Su-mi subconsciously creates a situation where she says them again, or something to the same effect. When Su-mi says “Anywhere’s better than being here with you” the Eun-joo personality basically says "What? You're saying these things again. This is why you got sick before, This is why you're sick now, didn't you learn anything. Let me remind you. It's your fault Su-yeon died". Relentless.

(Due to length, questions continued about 9 post lower)


"Do you know what's really scary? You want to forget something. Totally wipe it off your mind. But you never can. It can't go away, you see. And... and it follows you around like a ghost."

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Thanks for this. I understood a good part of the plot but your answers made me appreciate this movie even more.

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What a fantastic film, my experience was made even better by this excellent post. I will be definately be watching again after what I have read here tonight. (I quite like opiemars idea of the first viewing being horror, the second being a thriller and the third being drama/tradgedy)

I completely agree that much of ATOTS is subjective and open to interpretation so I'd just like put across a couple of things that I personally took away from the film.

1.) A few people here have been discussing whether Eun-joo was killed by Su-yeons ghost or if it was a further construct of Su-mis imagination. I came away with the idea that Su-mis return and subsequent breakdown stirred memories of what occured in Eun-joo. These memories (espescially of ignorng Su-yeons death)pushed Eun-joo over the edge and triggered a psychotic episode of her own (which is when we hear the scream - both fear and remorse). This could explain the strange goo coming from the cupboard as it could be seen as Eun-joos mind unravelling through the strain of what she knows.

2.) The snowstorm on the T.V. I thought that this was a way of showing that the father was worried about Su-mi and couldn't sleep straight away but fell asleep whilst watching T.V.

As I have only watched ATOTS once I will no doubt realise that I missed something that disproves both of the above ideas whilst re-watching it tomorrow!

Something that has confused me is the location of the cupboard. Originally it is in Su-yeons room but Su-mi asks her father to move it. It is then later seen downstairs (moved by the father?) However when Eun-joo sees it it is upstairs again. Could this have any significance (again this could be me missing something)

Again, many thanks for an amazing post.

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Something that has confused me is the location of the cupboard. Originally it is in Su-yeons room but Su-mi asks her father to move it. It is then later seen downstairs (moved by the father?) However when Eun-joo sees it it is upstairs again. Could this have any significance
Yes. Unfortunately, it is one of the clues that let you know that Eun-joo doesn't really die, that the "fate" scene in simply in Su-mi's head. The cupboard, or closet, was moved downstairs after the accident. It is seen there just prior to Su-mi having to return to the hospital, (after she stabs herself). The fact that it was all of a sudden back in Su-yeon's room indicates that the scene isn't real. For more on this, read question and answer #9 in the original post of this thread.

"Do you know what's really scary? You want to forget something. Totally wipe it off your mind. But you never can. It can't go away, you see. And... and it follows you around like a ghost."

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That does make sense, it also makes me agree with your take on Eun-joo encountering Su-yeons ghost (that it was in Su-mis mind).

Call me sad but I've spent nearly four and a half hours reading this post and other people comments - testament to an excellent post and also an excellent film (not many films can fuel such discussion!)

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Certainly can't call you sad. You wouldn't believe how many hours I've devoted to this board over the past 4 years. This thread alone has been restarted twice. The first two exceeded 500 responses thus were locked out by IMDB mods. But I have also been involved in most of the other threads for this film as well. I would be embarrassed to tell you how many times I've seen the film. As you stated, it is a truly excellent film. I'm glad you've discovered it. Be careful, it grows on you.

"Do you know what's really scary? You want to forget something. Totally wipe it off your mind. But you never can. It can't go away, you see. And... and it follows you around like a ghost."

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What do you think of this, knowing that the stepmom didn't help su-yeon, Su-mi makes it such that her hallucination of the stepmom is being haunted by Su-yeon or her mother...

Imagine having a hallucination and then having that hallucinaiton be haunted by another hallucination... goddamn!

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Remember though, that the sister-in-law who has the seizure also saw the ghost of Su-yeon under the sink. She mentions this to her husband on the drive home after dinner that night.

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Of course you've spent much of your time compiling this and checking the feed but one must admit that much of your explanation is inference rather than fact.

Now i say this knowing it is my personal opinion as you know saying atots is the best movie ever is yours, but i don't believe the best movie of all time would be one in which nothing happens - 89% of the film takes place in the messed up delusions of a traumatized girl and then another 10% is the movie backtracking with flashbacks in order to make any sense of it all. Only is there 1% of the movie in real time - in which nothing happens. It's hard to pick this movie out from all the rest - although i don't dislike it, i just don't believe it to be the strongest candidate for Best - when it wouldn't be anywhere near as interesting if we didn't have to scramble to make sense of it all. and i say scramble meaning "make sense of the entire movie in the last 20 minutes rather than the entire movie preceding it."

Some movies Do do this, but the first two acts of the movie are entertaining rather than mind-bogglingly confusing. There were some good scares and i'm not against the cinematography or anything. I'm only stating this to point out the Other side of the debate for those who come down from reading your analysis and need to take a week off from work due to exhaustion.

This movie deserves credit, but there's much better out there than watching a girl traumatized by deaths in the family and then going on to lose control of any direction for a long time and recap the whole thing with flashbacks we could have done well with much earlier on.

AToTS expects the audience to take in countless facts and details, retain them for the simple and somewhat predictable payoff near the end of the film, and then reconnect all those minute details that at times are only connected by inference and not truth - a job that would only be accomplished by someone spending four Years on the movie. not 1 watch, nor 3...

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Ya, like the the show "Lost", I love it, but a lot
of it is flashbacks, flash sides, flashforwards,
and just weirdness, and the rest of it is in realtime,
but it is still a great show, although it makes many
people hate it.



http://www.facebook.com/mike.d.keith?ref=profile

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Ju on does that as well.

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''AToTS expects ..''
Ju on does that as well.

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Can you explain who's outside sweeping the walkway at night in the very beginning, as the "family" sits down for dinner?

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I just watched ATOTS last nite and cannot get it out of mind! thanks so much for this great explanation.

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I am still unsure on Eun-joo's character. I have read your response on #15, but to me she is still down right cruel and cold.

First of all, she is a nurse. This a profession in which you heal and save peoples life. I would think, working in this field, if ANYONE was in need of help, their first instinct is to help this person, even if it was an enemy or a criminal; they are still people. To add to that, this is a CHILD. Did she really stand there to contemplate if she would let this kid die, regardless of Su-yeon not liking her?

Another thing mentioned is that both girls hate her, Su-mi much more. As we can see from the movie, Su-yeon is very passive and innocent. She most likely never said anything to Eun-joo that would piss her off as Su-mi would do. Anyways, if she wanted to get "rid of her problems", wouldn't it be guilt-less if she did save Su-yeon? That could also help her reputation that she saved the life of Su-yeon, and maybe she wouldn't be as hated. Oh, not to mention these are the daughters of the father, who she is presumably in love with. And she would rather see him deal with two deaths from this tragedy too?

The cruelest thing I saw from her is her last decision of saying what she said, about regretting this moment. Ok, so she'll let the girl die, but she wants to make sure all blame will go on Su-mi; everything. And all this while she lets Su-yeon die. This to me show she is pretty much heartless. I can understand what Su-mi said to her was pretty nasty too, but right here is between an adult and a child. Eun-joo took the childish route to get back at Su-mi for crossing paths and in the worst way possible. I cant see how Eun-joo becomes sympathetic after the incident.

So do others feel that Eun-joo was this heartless? Or was it just me?

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As far as Eun-Joo's being a nurse and therefore should be more compassionate, I'd like to add that nurses are human beings first. I've known some real wingdings; a lot of them just like the control they can have over other people. They get in the profession for various reasons and are not all Florence Nightingales.

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Firstly, really commendable work and thoroughly impressive. It was insightful and enriching. Many new things to learn from your post. BUT I beg to differ on the main scene of the film. Firstly, keep patience and I am willing to converse on the same if you have better points with the same.
Here is what I think:
Sumi was the one who went upstairs and saw her sister die, Not Eunjoo which I eventually mean to state that Sumi was psychotic even before the situation occured.

Now for the explanation till I have enough patience;

1. Your point about Su mi trying to be there for Su yeon is accurate, but it is not because she fought with Eun joo but rather coz she did not help her dying sister.

2. The tagline for movie speaks about conceiving your sorrows even before your birth which might imply that she was mentally unstable by birth.

3. Eun joo is not created for giving Su Mi satisfaction of protecting her sister but rather to push the blame of what she has done on some person with an attempt to get over her own guilt.

4. Major: Su Mi hears a noise and her mother and sister are clearly both not within her eyesight. We know her mother is sick and there was a loud noise of some sort. Next thing we know when Eun Joo comes out of the room, we see Su Mi coming out of hers. WHY do you think she will come up and go to her room even when she has heard something without even once checking on it although she has come upstairs.

5. To keep it simple as possible, Eun joo cant be as inhuman as to see a kid die for whatever reason. We meet bad people everyday, but this is pure devilry.

6. Eun joo says to Su Mi that she will regret this one day. Well imagine Su Mi talking to herself.

7. Su Mi says to Eun joo that she doesnt want to be anywhere near her. Well I think that there is a lot more to this than what is shown. I feel Eun joo might be a very NEGATIVE alter ego of Su Mi who can do as I said "devilish" things which may I say includes, watching her sister die. We both agree that Eun Joo is an alter ego of Su Mi in almost all of the scenes. What if she was here too???

8. Another Major: According to common belief, Eun joo goes to check on the noise, Su Mi sees Eun Joo coming from that room. Su Mi obviously would have told her father about it. And do you think the father would still be ok with Eun joo as to summon her even in the last scene or converse with her on phone when he knows about what Eun Joo has not told?? Thats impossible! Every thing is dug and dug in such situations and clearly this thing wouldn't have been missed by her father. Except the explanation that Su Mi had gone to check instead of Eun Joo and walked out of the house immediately after she had come down.

9. Eun joo is not shown to have maice whatsoever in the last scene, neither any intention of getting in "the father's" life EVER in the movie, then why suddenly the talk about she wanting to get one person out of the way.Only scene where wwe see her angry is when Su yeon throws her soup in the sink. Come on! Anyone will get angry by such behaviour.

10. The director has taken a shot where Su yeon while dying sees slippers of some person. I rewatched the whole movie for the sake of observing just the SLIPPERS. They are not shown anywhere. BUT the home slippers that Eun Joo uses are shown. The outdoor slippers for both Eun joo and Su Mi are shown. that leaves us with one option: home slippers of Su Mi are what is seen by Su yeon.
And thats the reason why while dying, she keeps calling "Su Mi, help"


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"1. Your point about Su mi trying to be there for Su yeon is accurate, but it is not because she fought with Eun joo but rather coz she did not help her dying sister." - aj_coolest


I agree with this.

"2. The tagline for movie speaks about conceiving your sorrows even before your birth which might imply that she was mentally unstable by birth." - aj_coolest


Or it could be a reference to fate?

"3. Eun joo is not created for giving Su Mi satisfaction of protecting her sister but rather to push the blame of what she has done on some person with an attempt to get over her own guilt." - aj_coolest


I see it as being closer to your first point, it is to push the blame/guilt of what she failed to do onto someone else.

"4. Major: Su Mi hears a noise and her mother and sister are clearly both not within her eyesight. We know her mother is sick and there was a loud noise of some sort. Next thing we know when Eun Joo comes out of the room, we see Su Mi coming out of hers. WHY do you think she will come up and go to her room even when she has heard something without even once checking on it although she has come upstairs." - aj_coolest


Su-Mi didn't go upstairs after hearing the noise, we see that Su-Mi was already upstairs in her room when the noise happened (@ 1:43:18 http://imageshack.us/a/img33/2796/vlcsnap2012091923h09m34.png)

"5. To keep it simple as possible, Eun joo cant be as inhuman as to see a kid die for whatever reason. We meet bad people everyday, but this is pure devilry." - aj_coolest


But people actually do much worse every day. What Eun-Joo was guilty of was inaction, which is much easier to do than to actually physically kill someone.

"6. Eun joo says to Su Mi that she will regret this one day. Well imagine Su Mi talking to herself. " - aj_coolest


The possibilty that Su-Mi talks to herself doesn't mean that is what happened, only that it isn't impossible.

"7. Su Mi says to Eun joo that she doesnt want to be anywhere near her. Well I think that there is a lot more to this than what is shown. I feel Eun joo might be a very NEGATIVE alter ego of Su Mi who can do as I said "devilish" things which may I say includes, watching her sister die. We both agree that Eun Joo is an alter ego of Su Mi in almost all of the scenes. What if she was here too???" - aj_coolest


I can't see that. For that to be true, Su-Mi would have had to have been downstairs when everyone heard the noise, in order for her to go upstairs. But we see Su-Mi upstairs when the noise is heard.

"8. Another Major: According to common belief, Eun joo goes to check on the noise, Su Mi sees Eun Joo coming from that room. Su Mi obviously would have told her father about it. And do you think the father would still be ok with Eun joo as to summon her even in the last scene or converse with her on phone when he knows about what Eun Joo has not told?? Thats impossible! Every thing is dug and dug in such situations and clearly this thing wouldn't have been missed by her father. Except the explanation that Su Mi had gone to check instead of Eun Joo and walked out of the house immediately after she had come down. " - aj_coolest


Su-Mi didn't see Eun-Joo coming out of Su-Yeon's room, she saw Eun-Joo after she had left the room and turned to go back. What Su-Mi saw was Eun-Joo going towards Su-Yeon's room.

"9. Eun joo is not shown to have maice whatsoever in the last scene, neither any intention of getting in "the father's" life EVER in the movie, then why suddenly the talk about she wanting to get one person out of the way.Only scene where wwe see her angry is when Su yeon throws her soup in the sink. Come on! Anyone will get angry by such behaviour. " - aj_coolest


Su-Yeon didn't throw her soup into the sink, she poured it in and then dropped the bowl a couple of inches, but this was in response to Eun-joo, already angry at Su-Mi, snatching her spoon away as a signal that she wasn't allowed to eat any more soup. Eun-Joo was already angry.

"10. The director has taken a shot where Su yeon while dying sees slippers of some person. I rewatched the whole movie for the sake of observing just the SLIPPERS. They are not shown anywhere. BUT the home slippers that Eun Joo uses are shown. The outdoor slippers for both Eun joo and Su Mi are shown. that leaves us with one option: home slippers of Su Mi are what is seen by Su yeon.
And thats the reason why while dying, she keeps calling "Su Mi, help" " - aj_coolest


Actually, the slippers are shown again. Here are the slippers that Su-Yeon saw...
http://imageshack.us/a/img13/636/vlcsnap2012092000h06m42.png, and http://imageshack.us/a/img255/6784/vlcsnap2012092000h04m05.png

Here is where we see them again...
http://imageshack.us/a/img692/1271/vlcsnap2012092000h02m54o.png, and
http://imageshack.us/a/img191/5065/vlcsnap2012092000h02m15.png

The two girls never wear house slippers and prefer to go barefoot, the slippers we see Eun-Joo and Mi-Hee wearing are the house slippers that are kept for guests. Eun-Joo wore them when we see her discovering Su-Yeon trapped beneath the wardrobe, Mi-Hee wore them in the dinner scene, because they were both guests at the time.

.

- - - - - - - - - - -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

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aj_coolest so let me get this straight: you think the character of Eunjoo doesn't exist at all but only exists in Sumi's mind? That can't be true, both girls in the flashback scene see her arriving at the house, the depressed mother looks distraught because she knows Eunjoo is entering her house, the uncle and aunt see her in the kitchen, and earlier in the film the father is talking to her on the phone before the dinner guests arrive at the dinner scene, and on and on....

We also have the bird that is the pet of Eunjoo's that she loves: the disturbed Sumi kills Eunjoo's bird. Sumi wouldn't kill her OWN bird.

Sumi blames herself for Suyeon's death but she also blames Eunjoo, as well she should. The director in the commentary says he meant to give the audience a ray of hope for Sumi's future when he had that scene at the hospital between Sumi and Eunjoo where Sumi grabs Eunjoo's wrist and won't let go, a smile on her lips that shows part of her mind is still strong and cognizant in some respects as to how evil Eunjoo is.

A person can still be evil even if they are as beautiful as Eunjoo, even if they are a medical professional, even if they are hesitant before deciding to commit an evil act.

Eunjoo is the most guilty one and eventually her comeuppance will occur. That's why I've always said I'd LOVE to see a sequel to AToTS. I feel deprived that I didn't get to see Eunjoo receive justice.

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Well looking back, now I feel that what I wrote could be called a good theory but not the most legit one I agree myself. But I must clarify, I did not mean Eun Joo was imaginery. I meant she only existed for real in two scenes, the one where she comes to their house(but according to my theory above that I myself do not affirm to much now :/) and in the last hospital scene. And the photographs ofcourse. And what I meant was that she was present in the house on that particular day but never went upstairs. Rather it might have been Su Mi''s projection.

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But then the whole critical conversation between Sumi and Eunjoo at the top of the stairs never happened and that doesn't make sense. We are seeing a flashback scene when Sumi is still normal - she doesn't yet know Mom and Sister are dead / dying. So she has an animated conversation which caused Sumi to abruptly leave the house and not be able to save Suyeon, which in turn exacerbates her breakdown and guilt later. If that confrontation had never been real the whole movie loses its punch.

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Atleast don't hype this movie as a horror everywhere!

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Su-mi says "Do you know what's really scary? You want to forget something. Totally wipe it off your mind. But you never can. It can't go away, you see. And... and it follows you around like a ghost."
It is scary for her not for us though. Weak attempt at horror. There is an Indian movie Chandramukhi which is psychological horror drama but it never stopped being horror. That is how it needs to be done.

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My take is that all the strange occurrences are subjective visions by people with mental trauma or illness. When the sister-in-law convulses on the floor and sees a ghostly being under the kitchen sink, she is likely suffering from mental trauma because she, too, was a witness to the tragedy on that fateful day. When the stepmother is supposedly attacked by Su-yeon's ghost, she is having a mental breakdown as well; she is likely feeling the same guilt as Su-Mi. Both the sister-in-law and the stepmother probably have less severe illness than Su-Mi, as they sometimes see visions and sometimes don't. The only sane person is the father, who never sees any strange visions. Of course, Su-Mi is the sickest person as she sees things practically all the time. One would think the father should be the one feeling the greatest sorrow and guilt. But I guess, as in real life, some people are less affected by traumas than others.

The Shining has a similar feel, in that basically the whole family is able to shine, since all 3 people (Jack, Wendy, and Danny) see ghosts as some point. I see The Shining being also about a troubled family's mental turmoil manifesting as strange visions.

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(Continued from previous post)

22. WHAT WAS THE BAG BEATING THING ALL ABOUT. Once Su-mi was forced by her father to realize Su-yeon was dead, she panicked. Her delusional world of self-help therapy was severely threatened. This is when she decided to turn the therapy level up to the max, and created a ridiculously extreme scenario of Su-yeon needing her. The whole scene of Eun-joo beating the bag did take place, it was just Su-mi doing it, believing at that moment that she was Eun-joo, and thus creating the threat. Later, she is out of Eun-joo mode, and back in Su-mi mode, discovering the bag and attempting to "be there" to rescue Su-yeon. When she has her brief flashback, her mixed up mind is starting to realize that it was actually her who was beating the bag. I believe that not only consciously, but also SUBCONCIOUSLY, Sumi really begins to panic now, because if she looses the ability to continue her therapeutic delusions, she will loose any hope of ridding herself of the pain. That is why the rest to the scene turns so violent. In fact, in the latter part of this scene, she finally realizes there's no way out anyway, other than death. The peaceful look on her face while on the floor awaiting her delusional death, her slight smile, is such a powerful scene.

23. WHAT HAPPENS WHEN EUN-JOO RETURNS FROM UPSTAIRS AFTER THE ACCIDENT? HOW COULD SHE EXPLAIN HER EXTENDED ABSENCE ONCE EVERONE RELIZED THE SOURCE OF THE NOISE?(LATER)?
This creates a rather awkward situation for Eun-joo. I could only guess she would claim the excuse that only Su-mi could legitimately claim; that she did fight with Su-mi, and in the course of the argument, forgot about the noise. What could Su-mi say...To argue that it's a lame excuse would be to argue against herself. As far as the comment Eun-joo made about Su-mi "regretting this moment", she could brush this off as meaning Su-mi would regret having such a bitter fight with her, since they would be living together. Kind of weak, yes, but what else could she say, and the father really wouldn't have any reason not to believe her. He was well aware of the animosity Su-mi had towards both him and Eun-joo.

24. WHEN SU-MI WAS WALKING IN THE WOODS, WHY DID SHE LOOK BACK? She was whistling her mother’s lullaby, however, she heard, at least in her mind, whistling other than herself.

25. WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE MOVIE’S TAGLINE- “OUR SORROW WAS CONCIEVED LONG BEFORE OUR BIRTH”? This question was best answered by a fellow viewer / poster / friend, Maeling. In response, I will just quote Maeling.
“If you study the concept of the word "conceived", it makes you think of seeds sown, doesn't it? So the roots of the tragedy lie deep in the past, probably as a hereditary burden of having a fragile mind. But this doesn't refer to fate in the sense that every future event has already been carved in stone. Like seeds need a specific soil to sprout and grow, the mind requires certain circumstances and conditions to break. If you hold a glass marble in one hand and a rubber ball in the other, they are equally round while solid, aren't they. But in case of a fall, which one is more likely to break? While most people have a mind capable of dealing with life's general ups and downs, these women (the mother and Su-Mi) unfortunaly carried within themselves a hereditary "mind of glass". Not doomed from the beginning, but definetely less likely to survive whatever heartaches might come their way. This is the sorrow conceived long before birth.”

26. WHY DID SU-MI STARE AT SU-YEON'S HAND WHEN THEY WERE ON THE DOCK AT THE LAKE? Su-mi had subconsciously created Su-yeon so she could protect her and be there for her since she wasn't before. While Su-yeon is very real to her, at the same time, there is still part of Su-mi's mind that knows she died. These two combine to cause a constant fear that this imaginary Su-yeon will die. Su-mi is looking at her lifeline, which is either not there, indicating that Su-yeon is really dead, or it is short, indicating that this imaginary Su-yeon will soon die.



If this post has been a help, please post a response saying so, which will in turn keep it active. At the same time, I would like to state that the intention of this post is to grant insight into a very difficult to understand movie, in hopes that the viewer, upon understanding, discovers a masterpiece. It is not to invite debate as to whether or not my understanding is correct. I realize that this film is somewhat subjective, leaving room for different interpretations of some scenes. I'm not presuming to have the definitive answer to all the aspects of this film, as that would be vain. However, I do believe the interpretations I give are very workable, each being consistent with the other, and the film as a whole.

Again, if there are any other questions concerning this film, please feel free to ask. I will add them to the above list, along with a response.


"Do you know what's really scary? You want to forget something. Totally wipe it off your mind. But you never can. It can't go away, you see. And... and it follows you around like a ghost."

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This is an incredible work, opiemar.

I read the first edition long time ago, but I noticed it got even better since then. Kudos to your excellent annotation. As a Korean I agree with you on almost all points discussed here.

p.s. I think I was the one who explained the haystack on the roadside. :)

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Oh, cool, good to hear from you again. Glad you liked the thread. Thanks for the comments.

"Do you know what's really scary? You want to forget something. Totally wipe it off your mind. But you never can. It can't go away, you see. And... and it follows you around like a ghost."

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Awesome post, opiemar. I just have one additional question. What was written on the note that Soo-Mi found under her door? I didn't catch it when I saw the film. Sorry if you posted this above, but I couldn't find anything about it. Thanks.

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It's a note to Su-mi from her dad telling her he went out and would be back shortly.


"Do you know what's really scary? You want to forget something. Totally wipe it off your mind. But you never can. It can't go away, you see. And... and it follows you around like a ghost."

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Thanks for all the answers. I am from Quebec, and just found the movie and watched it with subtitles and even though I understood most of the plot, it still felt confusing. Reading your post helped me apreciate this movie even more. Thx

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Just saw this film for the first time ... loved it, but found it a bit confusing ... your excellent post really helped ... one question, why did the father apparently go along with his daughter's delusions until the scene where he forced her to confront her sister's death, or was this another figment of her imagination?

The visual aspects of the film were extraordinary ... the busy floral motifs on every fabric and wall created a very disturbing visual surface to the film ... as Oscar Wilde said as he lay dying, " ... the wallpaper is killing me, either it or i will have to go".

But you ARE Blanche ... and I AM.

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hey opeimar, great post,,thank you.

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Just an FYI: Hair and fingernails do not continue to grow after death. They appear to grow slightly because the surrounding soft tissue dessicates, exposing slightly more hair or nail material. That aside, thanks for all the work you put into this explanation. I'm sure it's helped a number of people, including myself.

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Very interesting interpretation, I must say. Must be lots of work behind it. You certainly have a sharp brain. Though there is one thing I'm a bit confused about.

I really can't see why the ghost of Su-mi's mother would "harm" Su-mi because she's pretending to be Eun-joo. If the mother knows and is capable to see that Su-mi is pretending to be Eun-joo, then the mother would be capable of understanding that Su-mi is doing this because of the guilt, sorrow and regret she bears inside of her. This guilt _is_ because of the mother. Instead of harming her daughter again, she should act like a good mother, and show Su-mi that she loves her.

I would say that the dream where the mother somehow hurt Su-mi, is Su-mi's imagination and view of the mother after the incident where Su-yeon died.

Su-mi should be much more angry with her mother than she is. Instead she creates another person to blame things on. I do understand that. Mother and daughter, the same flesh and blood, there is always this special bond between mother and daughter. I believe the symbolism of the sceen where the mother gives birth explains this somehow mixed up feelings Su-mi has about her mother. But in the end, the bond between mother and daughter is too strong, and Su-mi cannot let mother play the evil role in this therapy.

The mother play's a much larger part in this story than the film shows. But suddenly now I understand the film's tagline even better. The mother could not help that she was born with some genes that made her mind unstable. Neither could Su-mi.

Sorry if I make you confused, I'm having a hard time expressing my self, both in Swedish and english, I'm trying my best.

After your explanation I understand what a masterwork this film is. I love it, and I'm surprised it hasn't got better ratings.

My God, it's full of stars!
-Dave Bowman

.Lisa.

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Thanks for the comments. And the tagline is really interesting. It was only recently that I understood what the tagline was referring to, after another viewer made some comments concerning it.

Concerning the mother hurting Su-mi, she never did. She was angry with her for impersonating this "other woman" but she did nothing to hurt her at all, just scare her, much the same way as Su-yeon did from under the sink.


"Do you know what's really scary? You want to forget something. Totally wipe it off your mind. But you never can. It can't go away, you see. And... and it follows you around like a ghost."

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hi camicazei,

the ghost of mother may appear to be 'harming' sumi with her scary presence, but we have to remember we are interpreting the ghost of mother from sumi's perspective. we, in almost entire movie, are seeing things from sumi's point of view, and in that particular scene we are as much scared and confused as sumi is, and at that time can't understand the purpose behind the sudden appearance of her mother's ghost.

whatever way the ghost might have presented itself, it would not have helped much in sumi's chaotic state-of-mind.

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Hey.

I watched the movie and pretty much understood all of it, but I wanted to say that your explanations were great.

But, I too was wondering if you knew (or if anyone else knew), what was written on the note that Su-mi found??

It wasn't on the translation I had.

Thanks!

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I believe this was answered on one of the older threads. Apparently the note was just the dad telling Su Mi that he was going to town.

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Shadow-Scorpion's right, the subtitles translate the note as "Su-mi, I'm going out. Will be back in the afternoon. Make sure you lock up."

I just checked that scene on my DVD and I couldn't stop watching, that ending kills me every time, especially Geun-Young Moon's performance when she finds her mother. I think that's one of the reasons why I haven't seen this film in a while, from the moment they step out of the car I always have that final scene in my head.

El Zilcho. Hey, is it too late to change my IMDb name?

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Wow, that's interesting. So it's definitely a ghost at the end, wow!

Did he say anything about the Stepmom issue? I got the impression she never married the father, and they broke up again, if they were ever together. They don't seem to be together during the movie. He has to call her to come over.... I just didn't sense that they were still an item.

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Excellent post here! Thanks very much for clearing up a lot of the questions i had!
I have one point to make concerning question 17 though, which is to do with the father in bed with su-mi. If you observe what su-mi (acting as eun-joo) is doing before her father enters the room, it is clear she is trying to make things perfect for her father, she also tries to please her father with the elaborate dinner that she makes for him earlier in the evening. She is trying to be a good housewife. I think the reason the father gets into bed with su-mi is to entertain su-mi's hallucination. He wants to comfort her by playing along with the act and he leaves the room when su-mi has fallen asleep. Maybe the father doesnt mind playing along with the act for this brief time because he sees it as a rare moment to get close to his only daughter, who constantly shoves him away when she is not acting as eun-joo.

"Happy the man, and happy he alone, he who can call today his own."

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I think the reason the father gets in bed with Su-Mi is very simple and innocent. People want to find something sexual even when there is nothing. As a caring parent -- and realize that Su-Mi has just come home from the mental hospital -- I think all he wanted to do was be there so she could go to sleep.

I'm sure any of us who are parents can remember times when our little kids said, "Mom (or Dad), please stay here with me until I fall asleep," and we agreed. I have heard that adult children who go through something traumatic will sometimes revert to this behavior. I knew a guy who, although a young adult, had a terrible experience (wild animal attack) and slept in his parents' room for a few nights afterwards just because the memories were so bad and he couldn't sleep.

Anyway, I think that's all that scene meant, since obviously the father remained fully dressed and later got up and slept in another room.

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I'm with you. I'm 28, and in the last year I have slept in the same bed with my mom, because there were not enough beds for everyone when I came home to visit.

I also thought it looked awkward that the father is still wearing all of his clothes in that scene -- an oxford shirt and an undershirt -- and I couldn't figure out why until the end.

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You Responded to the Wrong Post.

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It's called regression. You regress into a previous mental state.

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amazing post....answered everything for me!thanks a lot!and yes its an amazing movie too!:)

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Great work! I've been a fan of the film for a little while, but I've hadn't previously appreciated it on so many levels.

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Why did Soo-mi stared at Soo-Yeon's hand at the lake?

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If Su-mi knew, why would she blame herself so much and not Eun-joo, since Eun-joo was the one who actually let Su-yeon die?


Su-mi let her hatred of Eun-joo get the better of her, she was going to check on the noise coming from her sister's bedroom but chose to walk away from Eun-joo. She loved her sister more than anything in the world, she feels guilty because even as she's walking away from the house she turns back, her gut telling her something was wrong. The guilt within her is so great I'd say she blames herself more than anyone but I'm sure she holds Eun-joo responsible (her father too, to a certain degree) as the film is full of references of her harming Su-yeon, all from Su-mi's damaged imagination.

She even takes revenge on Eun-joo at the end of the film (when she can no longer delude herself about her sister's fate) in the form of Su-yeon's vengeful spirit (if you believe that it's all in her head).



Why did Soo-mi stared at Soo-Yeon's hand at the lake?


I think Su-mi is reading her palm, just sisters playing about, until she notices her life line. I assume Su-yeon either has a short life line or no line at all, a chilling message to Su-mi about the fate of her little sister.

El Zilcho. Hey, is it too late to change my IMDb name?

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Hey peterk, great film isn't it! As to your question:

Why did Soo-mi stared at Soo-Yeon's hand at the lake?

It’s hard to know for sure but I have an pretty reasonable idea. Su-mi had subconsciously created Su-yeon so she could protect her; be there for her since she wasn't before. While Su-yeon is very real to her, at the same time, there is still part of Su-mi's mind that knows she died. These two combine to cause a constant fear that this imaginary Su-yeon will die. Su-mi is looking at her lifeline, which is either not there, indicating that Su-yeon is really dead, or it is short, indicating that this imaginary Su-yeon will soon die.

I decided to add this to the list of questions on the original post as well. It will be question #26

"Do you know what's really scary? You want to forget something. Totally wipe it off your mind. But you never can. It can't go away, you see. And... and it follows you around like a ghost."

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I haven't noticed if anyone mentioned it before so i thought i might clear one thing up.I believe the chant is not "Terri Takoom, Terri Takoom" but "Talitha kum". "Talitha kum" is in arameic and literally it means "Little girl, I say to you, arise!" It comes from the tale of a dead daughter from gospel of Mark (Mark 5:35-43):

While He was still speaking, they came from the house of the synagogue official, saying, "Your daughter has died; why trouble the Teacher anymore?" But Jesus, overhearing what was being spoken, said to the synagogue official, "Do not be afraid, only believe." And He allowed no one to follow with Him, except Peter and James and John the brother of James. (5:35-37)
And they came to the house of the synagogue official; and He beheld a commotion, and people loudly weeping and wailing. And entering in, He said to them, "Why make a commotion and weep? The child has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him. But putting them all out, He took along the child's father and mother and His own companions, and entered the room where the child was. And taking the child by the hand, He said to her, "Talitha kum!". And immediately the girl rose and began to walk; for she was twelve years old. And immediately they were completely astounded. And He gave them strict orders that no one should know about this; and He said that something should be given her to eat. (5:38-43)

Well, I suppose it matches the plot more now :)

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But why would they copy this into a Southern Korean movie? A lot of people aren't Christians there, or would even know such an obscure reference.

Also, what translation of the Bible were you using for this verse? I sure hope it wasn't King James' version.

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You've GOT to be kidding me. South Korea is HEAVILY Christianized to the point of almost cultish devotion. Maybe this isn't largely known outside of Asia, but South Korea has a highly devout evangelical christian community with a sort of strict, authoritarian bent adopted from cultural influences. Literate Americans are surely familiar with the right wing christian Unification Church, a church some would call a christian cult, and its founder and extremely wealthy leader Sun Myung Moon based in South Korea and his ownership of the hard right wing Washington Times newspaper based out of Washington DC that he uses to cultivate close relationships with the American conservative elite.

Christianity definitely is the most dominant religion there and still rapidly growing. Unfortunately (and generally speaking), their zeal and authoritarian bent lends a particular strain of conspicuous intolerance to them that's not apparent among christian communities in other Asian countries, as even the international media has picked up on stories of coordinated violence against Buddhists and destruction of their property by South Korean christian zealots.

No, the translation is NOT the King James version because it's not a translation at all. The original bible was written in Aramaic, the same language spoken by the authors and individuals of the period and peoples including the disciples in the movie passion of christ.

Some fellows get credit for being conservative when they are only stupid.
- Kin Hubbard

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eYeDEF wrote:

The original bible was written in Aramaic, the same language spoken by the authors and individuals of the period and peoples including the disciples in the movie passion of christ.
Just for the sake of correctness, the New Testament was written in Greek. It was not written for people who spoke Aramaic, and it only contains a few words of that language.

_______________
For easy markup see http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/42255

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If everyone heard the noise how come no one else goes up to investigate or even ask "hey, what was that noise?"?

Sorry if you've addressed this in question in this post, but I just read the other one and I cant scan though this one to see if it's been addressed already cause I got blurry comp eyes now.

(^_~) angelondarun

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Great help here! Thank you!

I just got a little confused reading through so maybe you could clear this up.
Once Su-mi "realizes" everything is but in her mind she must "kill" them. As you stated, the scene wehere stepmum is "killed" is probably in her mind. So is the scene where she is beating the bag with Su-yeon in it serving the same purpose?(her having to face her mind's characters aren't real, and they must be "rid" of?)

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When Su-mi is beating the bag she's playing the role of the stepmother again, attacking Su-yeon (as Su-mi's mental state deteriorates so does Eun-joo's treatment of Su-yeon) so that when she reverts back to her own persona she can rescue and protect her little sister.

It's only when Su-mi's returned to the hospital that she's forced to accept the reality that her sister's gone and unable to forgive Eun-joo she takes revenge the only way she can, in her damaged mind.

El Zilcho. Hey, is it too late to change my IMDb name?

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Brilliant thread!!!! I wish I'd been watching this with you!
This seems like the perfect movie to watch and then discuss over dinner!




-Lisa

"Lighten up Francis!"

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Excellent post. Although I understood the film I found this very interesting to read. One has to keep in mind that a film like this which leave some questions unanswered is meant to make you think for yourself, thus making all interpretations subjective. However everything you write, opiemar, makes perfect sense. Good thinking!

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Thank you so much for explaining this! I just watched this movie for the first time today, and I ended up so confused and lost by the end. This helps clear things up a bit, and I think I'll watch the movie again tomorrow.... :)

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Brilliant analysis of the movie. Answered all my questions and even ones I didn't know I had,

Thanks for your time,
Evan

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crap. you r good. ty!!!!!!!

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Thank you so much for these explanations and ensuing discussions. I watched the film last night and enjoyed it, but had not understood it fully. I cannot wait to watch it again with the knowledge learned from this thread.

FYI, the link that you have posted for the original folk tale is no longer active.

Thanks!

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Hi cranky, glad the thread was a benefit. And thanks for pointing out about the link. It hadn't been posted on in a while, so I guess IMDB deleted it. I'll repost the folktale, and correct the link you referred to. Thanks again.



"Do you know what's really scary? You want to forget something. Totally wipe it off your mind. But you never can. It can't go away, you see. And... and it follows you around like a ghost."

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Wow, first off I love this film and have also seen it numerous times, and even more so I love your explanations of it, even though after countless viewings you pick up on a lot of it yourself. Umm some questions and comments follow.

First off, I like to be believe that the final scene involving Eun-joo actually did happen. Not because I wish for this film to be a typical revenge thriller, and yes your explanation makes the most sense, but because for me it makes things much more creepy. I just like that there could be more forces at work here, and in the house, than just Su-mi's fantasy world. Plus in terms of the final room being radically different than it's real world counterpart, I've seen other films where spirits/demons/ghosts are able to change our perception of reality and even time and space around them. Also, I'd like to think that Su-mi might have some 'above and beyond' sisterly connection with Su-yeung, and her smile at the end with her eyes closed might mean that she can see/hear what is happening to Eun-joo. Again, your explanation makes the most sense, but in my wild imagination that's how I like to view it.

Questions;

1. What is the song at the end? Hot damn is it ever beautiful and haunting, I must find it.
2. I was wondering if you know the cultural (if there is one) significance of the 'shrouded in black, long haired, pasty faced, weird moving ghost' that appears in so many Asian horror films. What was the first film to use it? And sure it's scary, but there must be some sort of mythical/religious reason to them. Otherwise why would they be so widely used.

I guess that's really all. Oh, the scene where Su-yeung is trapped under the cabinet, and says 'help me Su-mi' as a tear rolls down her face and she dies, gives me goosebumps every time and I have to hold back tears. The film is one of the most haunting portrayals of human nature I have ever seen, and I find those thoughts and moments stay with you long after the scares have worn away.

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Hey Headmonkeys, looks like you found a great film here. I’ll try to address your comments / questions:

First off, I like to be believe that the final scene involving Eun-joo actually did happen

No problem here. This scene is subjective, and either way one chooses to view it, it’s still an amazing film. It is just a matter of viewer preference. I prefer to view the scene as taking place once again in Su-yeon’s head, for the reasons listed. However, I completely understand the viewer who chooses to interpret the scene as supernatural rather than psychological, and have no argument against that. Both ways work incredibly well for different reasons, and thus for different viewers.

What is the song at the end? Hot damn is it ever beautiful and haunting, I must find it.

Need other viewer help here. I had the cd, but lost it when I moved. I’m pretty sure the soundtrack was created solely for the purpose of the film, and not pre-existing music.

I was wondering if you know the cultural (if there is one) significance of the 'shrouded in black, long haired, pasty faced, weird moving ghost' that appears in so many Asian horror films.

Ahhh…. The long haired vengeful female ghost; Yes, there is significance. She has actually been around quite a while, long before film. I’ve heard some viewers complain about Asian films copying the long haired ghost girl from Ringu or Ju-on. This is an unfair assessment, as she is a product of Asian folk tales. In Asian culture, she is the counterpart to say, vampires, in Western culture. We never watch a vampire film and say “ Hey, that's a copycat off of Dracula!”. In fact, I just watched “30 Days of Night” and I assure you no one left the film complaining about the director copying past vampire films. The vengeful longhaired female ghost is just as much a part of their horror culture as the vampire is part of ours.

One of the most famous one’s was Okiku, who started as a traditional legend, and later became a kabuki play and also the subject for many artists. Briefly, she was the beautiful servant of a samurai who decided he wanted to have her to himself. She refused him again and again, so he tricked her into believing she had lost one of ten very valuable family plates. No matter how many times she counted them, she could only come up with nine. The samurai offered to overlook her carelessness if she would become his lover. She still refused and he threw her down a well to her death. She came back as a vengeful long haired ghost who tormented her murderer by counting to nine and letting out a loud shriek for the missing plate.

Here’s a link to an old and famous depiction of Okiku. Notice the hair:

http://www.tbm-japan.co.jp/japanese1.ghost.large.jpg

Another tale is of Oiwa, who’s husband, upon lusting for his neighbor’s beautiful granddaughter, gives his wife a poison that disfigures before it kills. Oiwa’s is left with a bald spot, one eye completely shut, and the other looking hideously upward. (Hence the similarity to Sadako in Ringu, and the disfigured faces of her victims as well.) Anyway, she dies, and her husband goes on to marry the neighbor girl, but when he lifts her veil to see his beautiful bride, he sees Oiwa’s disfigured face. He freaks and goes nuts with a sword and cuts his brides head off. The story goes on and he is tormented by seeing her face or body in many places, even in a burning paper lantern. The story goes on, but you get the picture. Speaking of pictures, here’s some old artwork of Oiwa in the lantern:

http://www.lasieexotique.com/mag_illuminations/mag8-14.JPG


Weill, I hoped this was what you were looking for and not too boring.

"Do you know what's really scary? You want to forget something. Totally wipe it off your mind. But you never can. It can't go away, you see. And... and it follows you around like a ghost."



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Wow, that was not boring in the least. a) I love history, and b) I love horror films, so a mixture of the two is perfect. I'll definitely do some more research into both those stories since they're very interesting. Thanks a lot for your reply, and I'll see if I can track down the soundtrack somewhere. It might be hard since it's a 'foreign' film, but at least it's also relatively recent.

As a side note, this weekend I'll be showing this film to both my brother and a good friend who's never seen it. I can't wait to watch them freak out!

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The song is titled "Epilogue" and it is on the OST.

I actually have the song, so if anyone wants it I don't mind uploading it.

------------
"You call that begging?....You can beg better than that" - Gogo Yubari

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opiemar: Just wanted to chime in and thank you for this thread. Another favorite movie of mine that is oft misunderstood is Brazil, and after discovering the Brazil FAQ on the internet, I found myself watching it all over again and appreciating it more, armed with lots of new information/explanation. With your thorough post, I'm similarly ready to dive right back into my DVD of ATOTS to mine its mysteries some more :)...

BTW, since you mention that you are currently without your soundtrack CD, here it is in MP3 form:

rapidshare.com/files/115009461/A_Ta_Of_Tw_Si_-_So_-_2004.rar

I recommend it highly to anyone who enjoyed the music in the movie...

The next time that I watch the movie, the biggest puzzle I'll be trying to figure out is if there are literal ghosts or just guilt-driven figments of people's imaginations (like the director of the movie suggests)...

Thanks again!

Corey

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2. I was wondering if you know the cultural (if there is one) significance of the 'shrouded in black, long haired, pasty faced, weird moving ghost' that appears in so many Asian horror films. What was the first film to use it? And sure it's scary, but there must be some sort of mythical/religious reason to them. Otherwise why would they be so widely used.


Old Asian folktales. It's a vengeful ghost, often depicted as a woman who died for various reasons and cannot get any piece until the reason for the unrest is solved. As was said below, it's also a common feature in takibu.

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Excellent!
Must watch again.

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This explanation was FANTASTIC! I LOVED this movie the first time I saw it, and I understood the major premise of the movie, and wasn't really confused at all when it was over, but when I checked out your point-by-point breakdown, I remembered all the weird little things (the fish in the fridge, etc.) and you satisfactorily explained every single one of them! This has definitely taken the #1 slot on my list of favorite foreign horror/thrillers!
Thanks so much!

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opiemar, you've done a lot of work here, and its surely appreciated by a whole lot of confused viewers, including me. Unfortunately, you couldnt give me the one thing I was hoping for, because it quite simply wasnt in this film. I absolutely lovet the first 3/4 of the movie. Everything was perfect, and it is quite clear that we are in the hands of a talented team of filmmakers. By the end, however, I was quite unsatisfied (as I'm sure many were). That's not to say I gave up hope. To the contrary, my friends and I stayed up for two hours trying to make some sense of this incredibly complicated plot. We came up with a lot of the same interpretations as you, and your post expanded dramatically upon our reading.

My problem, though, is this (and I'd really like to hear your response, as you clearly have a very deep understanding of the movie). You account for all the crazy goings-on with hallucinations (or delusions, or however we'd classify the machinations of Su-Mi's mind), actual ghosts, and dreams. I am quite convinced by your interpretation, and think that you have actually found what the director intended. To me, though, this combination simply breaks the "rules" of storytelling. (I am hesitant to refer to rules in art, but I think you'll see my point, even if you dont agree with it). Telling a story is not an easy task, as anyone who's tried their hand at writing can attest. Being able to tell a coherent, interesting story is a bare minimum prerequisite for creating a fine novel or film. The story is the basis upon which the actual artistic flourishes and such (the things that set masterpieces apart from the rest) are built. Our director here has some wonderful talent in aesthetics and symbolism and understanding emotion, etc. On the story, however, he has "cheated.' Quite simply, in a story where the viewer is watching a combination of dreams, hallucinations, and the supernatural, absolutely anything goes. All responsibility to coherence and tying up loose ends is absolutely lost. The director can throw in anything he wants, without even having a certain explanation in his head, and then in retrospect, we can say "oh that one was a dream" " this one's a real ghost," etc. This, to me, disqualifies an otherwise gorgeous film from being even above average, nevermind a masterpiece. No matter how perfect some of the symbols and allusions may appear, they are "easy" if we start from a premise in which we have no accountability to reality.

I hope I've explained clearly. If not, feel free to constructively criticize or ask questions. Again, opiemar, thanks for your analysis. Even if I dont walk away liking this film, I can at least rest easy knowing that I understand it (as much as one can).

there's no place you can be that isn't where you're meant to be.

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Opiemar, this was exactly was I was looking for. I saw the film today. It must have taken you a long time to write this post...

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Rsheppard-1,

For a response to this post, follow this link to another thread where you are in a similar conversation. I didn't want to post the same response in both locations.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0365376/board/nest/99538641?d=latest&t=200 80312081911#latest

"Do you know what's really scary? You want to forget something. Totally wipe it off your mind. But you never can. It can't go away, you see. And... and it follows you around like a ghost."

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I would recommend keeping this active. It's an excellent analysis. You answered one or two questions that I had. Now it all seems really obvious! Good work.

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Thanks for the comment. I fully intend to. Actually this is the 3rd edition. I wrote the first one about 3 1/2 years ago. The first two exceeded the IMD posting limits and they made me start new ones. (I think the limit was 300 or 500 posts) When they get that long, it takes to long to load if a viewer doesn't have a broadband connection. Anyway, I've kept it going all this time because I believe the film is exceptional and worth being understood. Viewers tend to fall in love with the film as long as they understand it. Thanks again for the post.

"Do you know what's really scary? You want to forget something. Totally wipe it off your mind. But you never can. It can't go away, you see. And... and it follows you around like a ghost."

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Great detail and shows not only the depth of your explanation but your love for the film (which I share)

Thank you very much indeed! :)

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I just finished watching A Tale of Two Sisters not half an hour ago, and I want to thank you kindly for your help. It is VERY rare that I am so confused by a film. I thought it was very well done, but I didn't fully understand it. You made everything very clear, and now I have no questions at all. I'm really impressed by your explanations, and by this film. I'm going to watch it again right now. Thank you SO much.

~Laugh, and the world laughs with you. Weep, and you weep alone.~

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I love this movie, thanks

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Excellent thread, very comprehensive. Thanks!

The only thing I find really unfortunate about this otherwise marvellous film is that in the end it still has ghosts. As if Su-Mi's psychosis isn't enough to explain her hallucinations and the twisted world she imagines for herself.

By the way, what does the original Korean title mean? I understand it has to do with a classic Korean folk tale, so are they the names of the characters or something?

EDIT: stupid me finally read the trivia section, question answered, moving on...

________________
"I'm weak, and useless, but I'll stay by your side. I'll protect you."

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I watched this movie 4 years ago, about 4 times, understood it and loved it.
Now, I bought it, and saw it again today. Loved it even more.
Your post is great.

But still, I can't understand the father's coldness, detachment. Why doesn't he protect her, why isn't he more affectionate. He leaves her alone, doesn't talk to her. His character is completely plain, and useless. Ok, perhaphs he's tired, and has been through a lot, but love for a daughter is neverending.
I don't get him. He seems the enemy.

Carolina (Argentina)

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...but love for a daughter is neverending.

I don't know if you are a hunter, or know anyone who does, but consider the male deer, or buck. Normally, they are among the keenest and most cautious animals alive, and it's a rarity to ever see one. However when rut comes in, all he thinks about are the does, everything else fades to a blur. This is when the majority get taken by hunters. When rut is over, they go back to normal, and are rarely seen.

For you, me, and most fathers, your statement above is certainly true. However, I can think of many situations in which the father acts like the buck. They may or may not have appeared to be a descent father for most of the child’s life. But then a new woman comes along, all that matters is the new fling. Sounds cold, but it definitely happens. I've seen father's literally lose their relationships with their daughters because they choose to have an affair and destroy the family. They know the destruction that's taking place; they know they are losing their relationship with their daughter, and even may be sad or regretful about it. However, the pull is too strong for them to resist.

"Do you know what's really scary? You want to forget something. Totally wipe it off your mind. But you never can. It can't go away, you see. And... and it follows you around like a ghost."

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Your explanation was phenomenal and answered every single question I had and then some.

Now could you explain Revolver to me? ;)

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Good interpretation! It's nice, I like!

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amazing explanation thx

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hey opiemar,

thanks for your analysis, it helped me understand the movie better.

i was wondering if there is any significance with the colors that were repeatedly used throughout the movie (red, blue, and green).

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I’ve never been able to put together a correlation between the colors and the films storyline, nor have I ever seen anyone speculate on it on IMDB over the years, so I suppose not. I assume it’s just Ji-woon Kim’s style for the film. I certainly worked well, which is a tribute to his genius.


"Do you know what's really scary? You want to forget something. Totally wipe it off your mind. But you never can. It can't go away, you see. And... and it follows you around like a ghost."

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Colors mean many things. I could always give it a go if you want. Also, it should probably be tied to the interior design style, whatever it's called again. I currently forgot the name.

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[deleted]

Su-Mi didn't go upstairs so she doesn't know for certain what happened
I don't understand this statement. Su-mi WAS upstairs. She came out of her room and ran into Eun-joo just as she, (Eun-joo) had reconsidered and was returning to the bedroom. All Eun-joo had to say was that they argued intensely, and in the process she forgot about the noise. Or, more likely, postponed investigating it, due to the stress of the argument. After she watched Su-mi walk away in the field, she returned to the room to find Su-yeon dead and then went downstairs. We are not shown exactly what transpired. Nevertheless, any of many scenarios are possible. Please elaborate on your question.

"Do you know what's really scary? You want to forget something. Totally wipe it off your mind. But you never can. It can't go away, you see. And... and it follows you around like a ghost."

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[deleted]

Thank you so much for this thread and helping me understand this amazing masterpiece!!

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25. WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE MOVIE’S TAGLINE- “OUR SORROW WAS CONCIEVED LONG BEFORE OUR BIRTH”?

Another explanation of this tagline may be, that the hallucinations of stepmother and dead sister were born after the sorrow.

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25. WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE MOVIE’S TAGLINE- “OUR SORROW WAS CONCIEVED LONG BEFORE OUR BIRTH”?

Another explanation of this tagline may be, that the hallucinations of stepmother and dead sister were born after the sorrow.

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I thank you, and thank you for putting so much of your time into writing out all these explanations, and all the time you took to see the film repeatly. I just watched this film yesterday and was so impressed and couldn't wait to check out this board. I'm glad that on most parts my husband and I have understood the whole thing correctly, but we did miss many of the symbolic things that showed in the film. Most of them we were confused at the time but let them go as we figured they would become clear in the end, but some of them didn't become clear nor did we remember afterwards until I read them on your post again. It's such a beautiful film, and so carefully constructed so that everything had a reason to appear as they did. I pity some people who couldn't fathom the ideas or just gave up too quickly and missed out all the goodness that is so rare in the films made these days. I definitely want to rewatch this film in the near future, and if any question arises on my second viewing, I'll sure let you know.

Thanks again.

Please don't compare me with the hormonal teenagers. Youth is not one of my strong traits.

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I just saw AToTS for the second time, and I still have very mixed feelings about it. I'm not sure I agree with all of your interpretations, but I do appreciate all the thought and work you put into these posts. Good work, and thanks!

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You are a genius. Thank you so much.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=21103497

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Brilliant.
Thanks for dedicating the time for our benefit.
I was hypnotized by this movie the instant I started watching it.

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Thanks for a great post. Agreed with everything.

The two of you killed everything I ever loved. **** you both.

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This is not that difficult to understand movie or masterpiece compared to Ju on. The cinematography, horror and thriller also are not that impactful.

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I watched this movie a few years ago and was deeply confused afterward. The confusion and the disturbing horror scenes in this movie definately did not allow me to sleep for the next couple nights. A nasty combination indeed, it was my first time watching a movie that combined these 2 heavy elements to cause a severe insomnia. Whats weird was that on the 2nd night of not sleeping, I declared this movie as my favorite (psychological) horror of all time with Ju-on right behind it. :p A movie that can cause this much damage truely deserves this rank.

Then I stumbled upon your 1st Edition Explanation Opiemar. I thank you for clearing up all of my questions and allowed me peaceful sleep. Your 3rd Edition is truely top notch and goes further into detail compare to the previous editions. Thanks for all your hard work on this board man. Especially dealing with the trolls in some posts.

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good to see new edition. just like the movie the 'explanation posts' were masterpieces themselves. opiemar's effort really inspired everyone else to chip in, and make movie's board rich with many interesting threads.

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great explanation - i caught most of it the first time around- but after reading this, I definitely wanna watch it again

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[deleted]

[deleted]

About the dinner guest, please see #1 in the explanation. The visiting couple at dinner were real and she DID see a ghost, so it was not a projected fantasy.

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[deleted]

I just read this after I replied to your first post directly below. And, while much of this film is subjective, I believe that one CAN objectively answer about the fate of the step-mother. Refer to question #9. It gives several convincing arguments as to why this scene WAS in Su-mi's mind. I haven't watched the director's comments in full, and only watched a small part of them last year, as I wanted to form an unbiased viewpoint. I understand some have said that the director implies the scene to be real, while others say he avoids a direct answer. It really doesn't matter to me at all. The end product of the film projects itself and stands alone. Whether or not the director intended the scene to be real or imaginary, the direction of the film, the plot, the facts, and the scenes surrounding this one ALL solidly point to the "Step mom fate" scene as being in Su-mi's head. Again, read the analysis given in question #9.


"Do you know what's really scary? You want to forget something. Totally wipe it off your mind. But you never can. It can't go away, you see. And... and it follows you around like a ghost."

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(I'm re-posting my question from March 18th since no one answered)

A friend of mine insisted for several weeks that I watch this movie.

I did watch it, three times - plus watched all the extras on the dvd - (and joined this ImDb site because he told me I might find some info here) and I am still confused about one thing, please:

If the ghost of the younger sister wasn't really there (when she haunts the stepmother at the end of the movie), then why does the director say, in the commentary, that she was?

I don't get it!!

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Read my post directly above yours for my answer

"Do you know what's really scary? You want to forget something. Totally wipe it off your mind. But you never can. It can't go away, you see. And... and it follows you around like a ghost."

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If I understand you correctly, you need to go back and re-read the post. I maintain that there IS a supernatural element, and that the girl under the sink IS a ghost, specifically Su-yeon's ghost. This is proven to be real by the fact that Mee-hee says it herself. The film is a psychological thriller and a drama, but it is also a horror. The presence of Su-yeon's ghost under the sink is the only case that is positively supernatural. The bedroom nightmare scene is subjective. The final scene where Eun-joo meets her fate is in Su-mi's head. This is discussed in detail in question #9.

"Do you know what's really scary? You want to forget something. Totally wipe it off your mind. But you never can. It can't go away, you see. And... and it follows you around like a ghost."

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[deleted]

Im really confused
Did Su-mi come out of the bedroom when the wardrobe fell on Su-yeon?
if so she must have known that su- yeon was hurt so your saying that because she really hated Eun-joo, (the step-mother) she decided to argue with Eun-Joo and in doing so she forgot about her sister being traped under the wardrobe.
then i thought that Eun-joo opened the bedroom door then walk away but to return back to the bedroom door please help

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In the flashback scene, the wardrobe fell on Su-yeon in her (Su-yeon's) bedroom. Su-Mi was shown coming out of another room, her own bedroom, I presume. Remember, their bedrooms were down the hall from each other. So Su-Mi did not know at all at this point about the wardrobe falling on her younger sister.

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Thank you for clearing that up for me i couldnt sleep last night thinking about that question thanks again stadler-3

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Excellent original post. It verbalized a lot of thoughts that were swirling in my head, and pointed out many others I hadn't thought of. Thanks very much.

BUT...ha ha...sorry, I just gotta say that I don't think it's true that hair keeps growing after you're dead.

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You are right, it doesn't. I learned that it is just an illusion, created by the shrinking of the skin as the body decomposes.

"Do you know what's really scary? You want to forget something. Totally wipe it off your mind. But you never can. It can't go away, you see. And... and it follows you around like a ghost."

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Thanks for the work on your post. It was excellent, and so much better then the usual juvenile flaming that goes on with these boards. It cleared up some issues that I had wrong or had trouble with, like the explanation for the women’s “seizure” in the kitchen, and the final appearance of the ghost with the stepmother.
I agree with almost all of your conclusions. The only thing I would differ on would be the reasoning for the mother’s ghost coming back to Su-mi. I don’t believe there was any animosity there. I believe it was kind of symbolic of the fact that the problem originated with the mother and her mental illness, that the daughters were “haunted” by this “curse” that had been passed down to them. This I think is shown by the “birth” effect when she’s standing over her, and also is the idea behind the tagline, “OUR SORROW WAS CONCIEVED LONG BEFORE OUR BIRTH”. Of course, this is just my opinion and it’s wide open for interpretation:) Again, great job.

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I originally started reading this thread because I didnt think I had seen this movie, and I thought I might want to watch it. After reading it, I realize I have seen it! I watched it late one night and had no idea what was going on. I had missed the very beginning but I seen the rest of it and I thought it was extremely scary although I didnt quite get who was who and what was real. After reading this thread, I understand it, and cant wait to see it again. When she bent down and seen her sister in that kitchen cabinet, I thought I would jump right out of my skin.

Great Thread!

Don't bother the pigeons and they won't bother you.

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You missed the beginning. Lucky you. It isn't that scary compared to Ju on or even the Ring.

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This post is pretty useful!
Thanks for all the informations.
It certainly answered most of my questions and confusions.

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What a great post! Thanks for that. I'm so glad someone was bothered to write all of it down, I know I'd be too lazy to...

A true fan you are!

Do you think it's possible that the tagline "Our sorrow was concieved before our birth" could be referring to the "birth" of Su-mi's imaginary Su-yeon and Eun-joo? That the tagline is referencing the sorrow concieved, that grew and grew until Su-mi couldn't handle it, on the day that the mother and Su-yeon died? And 'our birth' is the birth of Su-mi's multiple personalities, that have to live on with the consequences of that sorrow?

Just a thought

Again, thank you so much! If Hollywood remakes this movie....grrrrr. There is no need. It is one of the most perfect and sublime films I have ever seen.

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oh, and also a question -

what do you think that goop is that spills out of the closet when Su-yeon's ghost comes after Eun-joo (in Su-mi's hallucination)?

thanks.

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Excellent explanation.
That really cleared some things up for me.

One thing though.
Didn't the director say that the reason Su-mi had two matching notebooks in her desk already, was that her personalities were flawed and were doing the same things as each other? Kind of like, she was repeating her actions, once as Eun-joo and then as Su-mi.
I can't remember really, but I'm sure he says something about it during the commentary.

Also, the dream in which Su-mi sees her mother: I always thought that it had nothing to do with ghosts. Her mother wasn't visiting her in her dreams, this was just Su-mi's mind trying to reveal the truth about what really happened. The mother bleeding and the hand on her leg are all symbolic of the fact that Su-yeon and her mother both died. Mother and child. Everything's just jumbled up in Su-mi's mind (you know how dreams can be...)

Anyway, hope that made sense.
Thanks for the explanations.
Really helped.

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Hi Fearthe#'s, great film isn't it! Glad you ran across it. As to your comments:


Didn't the director say that the reason Su-mi had two matching notebooks in her desk already, was that her personalities were flawed and were doing the same things as each other? Kind of like, she was repeating her actions, once as Eun-joo and then as Su-mi.


Although I have watched the interviews with the three actresses, I have only heard a few of the statements from the commentary, from other viewers. I preferred to interpret Kim’s work through his finished product and intentionally avoided the commentary.


I always thought that it had nothing to do with ghosts. Her mother wasn't visiting her in her dreams, this was just Su-mi's mind trying to reveal the truth about what really happened.


Certainly this is a subjective scene. I discussed this in detail somewhere in the second thread of “Explanation”, but that has expired after reaching 400+ post, IMDB max. Basically, this scene has to be left up to interpretation, as there is no possible way to know for sure exactly what was happening. Either Su-mi’s dream was supernaturally induced by the haunting of her mother, as discussed in question #6, or as you stated, Sumi was wrestling in her own mind with the events that had unfolded, and her own guilt. This is certainly a good viable interpretation, and either one works equally well. That’s where the subjectivity and viewer preference comes in. The film is a psychological thriller, a horror, and a drama. However, the only unquestionable supernatural event was in the kitchen. The majority of the other scenes are in Su-mi’s mind. Having the option here, I preferred to consider the first dream as psychological, and the second as supernatural.

Good input, thanks

"Do you know what's really scary? You want to forget something. Totally wipe it off your mind. But you never can. It can't go away, you see. And... and it follows you around like a ghost."

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Opiemar, remember me?

lol, I USED to go under the name (FightClubMember7-1).

I remember Explanation Of A Masterpiece BEFORE it was even written. A few of us on these boards had been scrapping together ideas (me and you were one of the main ones) to try and completely understand everything from this film. That was like over 2 YEARS ago.

And I have to say, you've done a great job. I'm amazed at the committment you've given the to the damn thing. My passion for this film is still in me but never could I covered EVERY DAMN THING like you have done. The simple cop-out for me was that a film SHOULD'NT make your head think like this, but thats wrong.

For my money, A Tale of Two Sisters is a film WAY ahead of its time. It deserves to be preserved, viewed, and studied amongst future audiences. And your, yes YOUR explanation is pretty much the ULTIMATE go-to guide for the film. Eh, how about that?

Good job, man.

But I'm still gonna read it over again just to see if you've slipped up somewhere(ha!). Just kidding, I think me and you both know the juiciest explanations for this movie are left for interpretation (ala Shakespeare).

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Hi there. Does anyone know the the title for that piece of classical music played near the ending? when the older sister stormed out of the house with her father calling her, if i'm not mistaken. Thanks!

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Yeah I love that music.
I'll have a look for it.

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Way ahead of it's time? Not true! There are far better films made in India in 90's itself that beats this like Manichitra thazhu. Even Ju on does.

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Thanks for the great explanation!! I was so confused after watching this movie, and your post helped a lot.

But I still have a few questions...did anyone know that Eun-joo had let Su-yeon die? If Su-mi knew, why would she blame herself so much and not Eun-joo, since Eun-joo was the one who actually let Su-yeon die? Su-mi just didn't go investigate what that noise was, but Eun-joo actually went and saw and didn't do anything! How come she's not guilty?

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Hi qayamat, glad the expalnation was of binefit. I'll try to answer your questions here.

did anyone know that Eun-joo had let Su-yeon die?

Only Eun-joo and Su-mi knew that Eun-joo let her die. And, Su-mi knew that one, she couldn't prove it, and two, Eun-joo could simply deny it. The father knew that Su-mi resented Eun-joo, and he would consider any accusation as a malicious false attack on the step-mom.

why would she blame herself so much and not Eun-joo, since Eun-joo was the one who actually let Su-yeon die?

As for Su-mi's guilt, while she didn't knowingly nor intentionally let Su-yeon die, she felt she was still to blame. She was so wrapped up in her hatred for Eun-joo that she forgot about hearing the noise in Su-yeon's room. Furthermore, as Su-mi was walking away outside in the field, she did finally remember the noise. However, after turning around and seeing Eun-joo, she consciously chose to embrace her resentment rather than her concern for her sister. Even though she felt there might be a problem, she wasn’t about to return and face that woman. When she later realized that Su-yeon was dying perhaps at that very moment, Su-mi came under tremendous guilt. And to compound the guilt, she was haunted by Eun-joo’s comment on the stairs where she told Su-mi that she would regret this moment. Finally realizing what Eun-joo meant, she is forced to acknowledge that Su-yeon was dying while she was choosing arguing with Eun-joo.

"Do you know what's really scary? You want to forget something. Totally wipe it off your mind. But you never can. It can't go away, you see. And... and it follows you around like a ghost."

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[deleted]

>>Only Eun-joo and Su-mi knew that Eun-joo let her die.

I'm really not convinced Eun-joo knew that Su-yeon was under the closet. It's possible all she could see was the dead mother. Her "you will regret it" lines to Sumi a few moments later could simply refer to the fact that Eun-joo knew that Sumi would regret the death of her mother and not being able to prevent it, and that once the mother was out of the way Eun-joo could make a play for the Dad and then cause Sumi's life pain as her stepmother.

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True. Who Eun-joo actually saw under the wardrobe is subjective, and we have no way of knowing for sure if she thought it was the mother or Su-yeon, and the line would have been appropriate either way. Also, in either case, Suu-mi still knows that her sister died while she just walked away.

"Do you know what's really scary? You want to forget something. Totally wipe it off your mind. But you never can. It can't go away, you see. And... and it follows you around like a ghost."

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Plus, Eun-joo was in the medical field so if she saw someone in distress and at risk for dying it would have been her moral obligation to help that person. She would know she could be prosecuted for failing to act to help a child in distress under a closet. I really lean on the side of Eun-joo not knowing, but only seeing the dead mother. That would have shocked her enough so that she would quickly leave the room, and that's when she met Sumi in the hallway. There are plenty of people in the world who commit adultery or who have the intent to commit adultery but who would never accept allowing a child to die without going to their aid.

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Awsome.

I have to say though, I think I mmight disagree with one thing...

Generally your interpretation of Su-Yeon's ghost in the kitchen, and the ending scene-type situations. Bascially I think it's open to interpretation. I think that Su-Yeon and her mother kind of acted as one ghost, but rather than a "ghost" it was more of an emotion trapped in the house, kind of like The Grudge...

Su Yeon is her mother's daughter, and they died "together". Su Yeon was right undernearth her dead mother (poor thing....) and died. Su Mi's "dream" was of her mother and the "baby" crawling down underneath her dress, like the two spirits of her sister and mother together and in anguish type thing. Also in the kitchen, this "ghostly entity" was therefore portraying both the sister and the mother. Also, in the ending of the movie, the girl who "comes out of the closet" (where the mother died) comes out as if she's a child being born (notice all the liquidy stuff that kind of implies it)

I think the ending of the completely subjective in one of three ways. Yes, there was paranormal activity in the film, so
a) Eun Joo could have actualy been "killed" finally by the ghost/entity she had a part in manifesting
b) Eun Joo, judging by her general stress level sitting at the table, could have been overcome by her own guilt and become mentally ill (after carrying the burden for so long perhaps she finally felt bad about what she had done)
c) It's all in Su Mi's head

Also....perhaps maybe as sort of happy ending...you could go so far as to think maybe after facing everything and Su Mi crying at the end saying "Su Yeon..." she was finally on the road to getting better, and the fact that the doctor in the beginning was washing his hands clean and this would be the "latest" point in the series of events we see throughout the entire movie might hint that Su Mi is on the way to cleansing herself of her guilt. After all, she again thinks back to the events of that day but in more of a clear way, and from what little we see isn't acting out any crazy personalities.

A stretch....but a happy one :)

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