I watched this stinker of a film earlier today, and despite it not being particularly scary/violent/good, I noticed one thing that has been hard to shake, which is that actually this is one of the most homophobic films I think I've ever seen. The singular motivation behind this girl's killings is that she's in love with her female best friend and can't bring herself to say it, so she imagines herself as a serial killer to accept it. Or something. Truth be told the plot, to me, was dross. But this homophobic undercurrent stood out to me. To make it her only motivation is not only lazy... But pretty intolerable.
Aye but to put her murders down to the simple fact that she was a lesbian is homophobic and insensitive. If she was straight and this was because she loved a guy, then she would be considered to be *beep* insane and have no idea what love is, as well as not be taken seriously and give the film less credence.
Where do you come up with this *beep* This movie is not homophobic what so ever. I swear to *beep* god people with make up anything to let themselves feel like other people are trying to be insensitive or some *beep*
She doesn't tell her friend that she likes her because it's completely *beep* obvious that she is not gay at all. They show all kinds of things to make it pretty *beep* clear that she likes Alexis, if anything it's the opposite of homophobic.
The fact that she snaps has *beep* not one single thing to do with her liking another women. I honestly can't even believe how stupid you are.
I watched this film, and the fact that the only justification for her killing all those people was her homosexuality, is, to my mind, homophobic. If it was because she loved a man, and Alexis' character was replaced by a man, the whole film would be considered laughable. With this gay element, it was homophobic and laughable (tbh the whole film was a shambles, but anyhoo). You say that her snapping wasn't to do with her liking women? Well please elaborate, because outside of this no other explanation was given. And I did not want to make the director seem insensitive, so I have no idea where you got that from, and the fact that they go to great lengths to show how much she likes Alexis merely reinforces the homophobic element, if you ask me.
I think, anyway, that you've simply misunderstood me. I found the treatment, and subsequent justification, for the theme unnecessary, as it was a poor excuse to cover up what is the plot equivalent of plywood. I felt it had been put in there for no other reason than to simply flesh out the terrible story, and the way it was the ONLY justification was quite simply insensitive. But you know how the saying goes. You can't polish a *beep*.
"I watched this film, and the fact that the only justification for her killing all those people was her homosexuality, is, to my mind, homophobic."
She was insane and was a lesbian. Her mind made up elaborate fantasies when she saw a woman tha she was attracted to enabling her to see herself as the hero that saves from from the monster.
That's essentially what the story was saying, I don't see how this paints gay people as being generally like this or in any way bashes anyone for being gay.
This particular gay woman happened to be insane.
John "Jigsaw" Kramer is an insane cancer patient, doesn't mean the SAW franchise is insisting he is an accurate representation of how people with cancer think.
Yeah, I think the problem with this film... The unshakeable issue, which is a real pity... is that the twist is lame.
And absolutely, part of what makes the twist lame is that we are supposed to believe that a lesbian crush led a girl to become a mass murderer.
The whole violent killing spree is too obviously pre-meditated to just be a random psychotic break. There's a clear motivation and it's her lesbian lust for her friend. And that's why it doesn't work as a twist at all. - Unless perhaps you think that's a realistic motivation for a mass killing?
Heck, I can't think of any film where a male character has murdered a woman's family because he wants to be in a relationship with her. There's simply no straight equivalent. It's bizarre that Aja ever decided to include the twist, since prior to the point where the twist is revealed I thought this movie was kinda awesome.
See, this is called the "minority free card". You can't depict ANY member of a minority group as negative, because in the likely scenario that he/she is the only representative of that group, it means that 100% of that group are portrayed as negative. The lobby groups will immediately scream racism/antisemitism/homophobia, etc., so instead we get the ubiquitous positive minority character, and 0% negative portrayal of minorities. Only white people are evil.
Except that there've been so many films about heterosexual couples. Sometimes pretty twisted ones. And yet I've never heard such a stupid plotline as that the male figure murders the female figure's family so that he can be with her. Perhaps I'm just blanking and there's an obvious example, but I cannot think of any. And why? Because it makes no damn sense, no matter what sexuality you are!
No, I watched the film and these were my thoughts. I consolidated it with my friends and they felt a shade of the same way, so I thought it constituted a post on here to see who else felt the same way. Clearly, not that many.
I just watched this film, and I had to come to the message boards specifically to find out how people felt about its treatment of homosexuality. I am surprised and disappointed that so few people have a problem with it.
Marie's secret, same-sex crush on Alexia was intriguing. At first it promised a complex, deep, and fresh take on the old horror trope, the virginal "survivor girl/last girl." I could go on and on about how the first half of this movie does a great job of building internal sexual tension and fleshing out its characters through dialogue and plot, even using its sexuality to contrast and segue into disturbing, shocking, and gory violence. However, I am left uneasy with the film's overall treatment of a lesbian character.
SPOILER'S AHEAD!!!!
The overall message this movie left me was 'this psychotic lesbian is dangerous.' Granted, any person with any sexual identity and any sexual preferences should be treated equal with respect to potential for mental illness and violence. However, if the slasher was the only heterosexual black man in the movie or the only portrayed homosexual in the movie is a murderer motivated by her sexual frustration, lines get blurred, and people can easily get offended.
Furthermore, the scene with Alexia's father's initial measuring, judging stares and probing questions about how they met on vacation in Spain subtly own a tone of suspicion. In retrospect, Marie's major psychotic episode apparently started due to masturbation. Finally, I dislike the parallel assumed between a lesbian's sexual desires and the desires of a psychotic, male, red-neck slasher.
For me, the film makes too strong a rationalization and causal link between a psycho killer's behavior and her homosexual identity. I agree with Cochran, and I consider this movie subtly homophobic, whether it was intentional or not.
(And if it was made where the only black character that was the killer, I would consider it racist, whether intentional or not.)
Unfortunately, social, economic, or political minority group characters and their stories must be written a bit more carefully than their majority group counterparts, since their vilification is naturally amplified.
Ok, a couple of things here right off the bat....you have a problem identifying a lesbian with a serial killer due to her desires, but you have no problem at all with the fact that a "red-neck" is commonly used as a slasher character. Do you not understand that the term redneck in itself is offensive?
Second, I think that the reason for the writers to use a lesbian character for their protagonist and antagonist was specifically because no one would suspect her to be the killer therefore allowing most of the audience to remain in the dark until the ending. Simply the fact that she was the last person that you are expected to suspect makes me believe that the directors aren't homophobic, but simply trying to put a new spin on an old story:TCM, Last House on the Left, I Spit on Your Grave, etc.
Third, going back to the original post, I know plenty of male serial killer movies where a man's lust drives him to murder...in fact the genre is filled with them....Norman Bates is a prime example. And, your argument that she was not insane, but only driven insane by her lesbian lust breaks down when we look at how the murders are committed....SHE HAS A SPLIT PERSONALITY. So, obviously her lust may have been the pressure to push her over the edge, but not the sole factor here.
Anyway, bottom line her is that this is a gritty, suspenseful piece of cinema that reuses an old, worn out story line and our expectations that go along with that story to make something fresh and entertaining. It gets a thumbs up in my book....homophobic or not lol
The only reason I'm not that concerned about the homophobia, is that I don't think the twist makes sense whatever the sexuality. It is rather concerning that they decided that it made sense in a lesbian context, but I'm going to accept Hanlon's Razor here. ("Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.") I'm prepared to accept that they could have done this with a heterosexual couple. I think the problem is mainly that the twist is stupid.
Lesbians are shown as psychotic killers in almost all movies,while gay men are almost never, yet hardly anyone complains. If anything Its not generally homophobia, but lesbophobia. Just try to immagine how much topics like this would be If this movie was about two men.
Otherwise it could be said that the movies message is that what happened is partly societys fault. If lesbianism was acceptable, it would have been much easier for Marie and maybe she would not have done it.
well not sure about the male homosexuals on movies, i have seen lots of movie characters that are homosexual and male, some that come to my mind are: Jame Gumb from The Silence of the Lambs,silva from skyfall,xerxes from 300 some may not be slasher type serial killers but overall evil bastards that odered or commited tons of murders and gay...not to mention the standard profile to a serial killer usually involves being a mild class homosexual sociapath intelligent male on their 40's(yeah that sounded homophobe but its what internet and hollywood show all the time wrong or not)
imo the fact the lead character its gay makes her a lil more credible...as u dont seen many chaeracters like that on horror movies...gay ppl shouldnt be offended by that they are equal than everyone and have the same chances of a straight male or female to end like a wacko on a movie...variety thats all
infact gay ppl should feel used or having the homosexuality of the character "used" to get the attention of viewers but not to insult the homosexual comunity imho
im not native enlish speacker and my spelling sucks sorry for that
don't you see the hypocrisy in what you're saying? "if alex was replaced by a man and marie went nuts and killed everyone it would be because she's crazy." but since alex isn't a man, to you, that means the reason she killed everyone isn't because she's crazy, it's because she's..gay? um..what?
Once more... It was the FACT THAT SHE WAS A LESBIAN THAT WAS THE REASON FOR HER BEING THE KILLER. THAT WAS THE HOMOPHOBIC BIT. HER LESBIAN-NESS WAS WHAT MADE HER A KILLER. WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A FILM WHERE THE KILLER WENT OUT AND KILLED BECAUSE HE WAS STRAIGHT? WITHOUT THEM BEING PORTRAYED AS SOMEONE WHO WAS SLIGHTLY COMIC OR COMPLETELY DERANGED OUTSIDE OF THEIR SEXUALITY? NO I DIDN'T THINK YOU HAD. IT DIDN'T STOP SWITCHBLADE ROMANCE THOUGH. WHICH SHOWED HER TO BE THE KILLER... BECAUSE SHE WAS A LESBIAN.
Christ alive, did you people even read what I said?
She killed Alex's family because she was a lesbian this much is true. However she didn't kill because she was a lesbian. She killed due to her insanity. The only thing her sexuality changed was the gender of her target. And yes, I've seen MANY movies where the killer kills due to being straight. They see a woman, lust after her, and all hell breaks loose.
Ask yourself this. If the exact same story took place but Marie was a man whom Alex had no interest in, would it be acceptable? If so then it would have been his heterosexuality that caused him to kill.
Isn't the whole slasher genre founded on not being taken seriously? And I think you're referring to the whole mentally unstable man side-branch of this genre. A genre that, oh let me check... Has been left unturned for many years, and was little more than a fad? A genre that is regarded as probably the worst there's ever been? That's what I was getting at here. I can't be bothered to reword what I've said at least 5 times now.
I actually haven't seen the film in years, but was just thinking about it and came to IMDB specifically to see if anyone would write about this! So, I certainly back you up on your observation. It holds true to the horror film stereotypes such as the black character will be killed -- just as bad.
Many people don't like to accept this, but even these subtle parts of a story are certainly done on purpose. I'm also a writer with a BA in English as well as Gender and Sexuality Studies. Both of those subjects explore this very notion of who is chosen for what role in literature, film, etc. and why. Choosing a lesbian in a society like ours to be a killer is quite deliberate. There's no way around it. A killer by itself with no stated sexual orientation would have caused no reason to bring this up, but this is just too specific.
Another classic concept in horror is the sin factor. Sexuality in a horror film always leads to someone or both partners dying. Wrap it up with the mentally insane lesbian and you have yourself enough evidence to say this was on purpose.
Of course, anyone who actually believes any of this is cause to be homophobic are the real wackos, but then again even the fairy-tales we are raised with promote heterosexuality, virginity, the belief in true love, etc.
Thank you very much for your erudite observation. You're very true, and you've touched on something I perhaps didn't stress; it was a conscious decision on the part of the film-makers, and could not have been any other. This is probably what I was getting at. They went out of their way to put this in their film, and that makes it morally reprehensible. Not that it matters, I guess, the film was pretty pants, just a more gory update of those rubbish films from the 70's that, as you mention, had some offensive tropes of their own (the black guy getting offed, etc). Thank you very much!
You're most welcome. I also had a thought -- probably the writer in me -- I don't know anything about the writers, but it could be argued that it's meant to be offensive to say something about the way society views homosexuality. I'd have to research any interviews with the writers as to if the question of homophobia was brought up, but if they aren't homophobic themselves this 'could' be a statement about homophobia. The belief that homosexuals will "take over." It could go either way. Of course this doesn't prevent it from being homophobic nonetheless.
I think you're reading a little too much into her sexual preference. You keep saying over and over again in this thread that she became a killer because she was a lesbian. She didn't become a killer because she's a lesbian. She became a killer because she is insane and became obsessed with someone she can't have. What does her gender or sexual preference have to do with it? If she were a straight man instead, would he be a killer just because he had straight sexual urges? No, he'd be a killer because he was a psycho. Same as the actual character. The film isn't about being against homosexuality or that it's evil, it just happens to have a character that is a lesbian which is a totally different thing.
It just seems silly to call it a homophobic film. Why would it be okay for a straight person to portray a psychotic person, but not a lesbian? If we're going to call this movie homophobic, then we have to call every single film that portrays a straight person in a bad light as heterophobic (which would be pretty damned silly). Can homosexuals only be portrayed as these good and holy people who never do any wrong and never suffer from mental illness or psychotic breaks? Your assessment of the film just doesn't make any sense and it seems to me like you're trying to see things that just are not there.
you are hitting the nail NeoRisingPhoenix but don't worry 'cause the OP (being a troll or not) will never concede his campiness about being "offended" by the homophobia of the the film lol