This movie is more relevant than ever
Things have gotten a lot worse with gun violence and mass shootings since it was first made.
MM should do an update.
The message of this movie, for those paying attention, is that there is something wrong with the American psyche. This week's spotlighted shooting (never mind the shootings taking place in our illustrious cities every single day and night) is a great example of this. Mental illness, improperly treated, has led to tragedy.
shareIt also shows the easy access to guns such as when there was a gun giveaway from a bank.
The two add up to a deadly combination.
Actually, the bank gun scene was edited and staged. The bank did interviews with other filmmakers showing that it was nothing like what the film suggested. Same goes for most of Moore's movies. This is why people stopped taking him seriously.
https://youtu.be/ek0taJKn6ao
As for things being worse, that's factually incorrect.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/myths-and-realities-understanding-recent-trends-violent-crime
What we do see is that crime is reported more, so people assume things are worse. It's a side effect of 24hr news and social media.
Everybody's a critic and I have seen BS claims like this before about MM movies.
I don't have time to sit through an hour and a half movie bashing one of my favorite filmmakers while they overlook and miss the truths and points he brings to his movies.
True or false: The bank did give away guns?
If true, then he showed the truth that they did.
Period and case closed.
Things are worse.
We did not have this level of mass shootings just 10 years ago and it was never underreported.
You like to keep yourself in the dark with the truth.
Hey, if you don't want to look into it, that's fine. I used to be a huge fan until I looked into his tactics. He's entertaining and a propagandists. Guys like him are why documentaries aren't taken seriously anymore. They turned the industry into entertainment rather than truth. That's no small feat.
You like to keep yourself in the dark with the truth.
The bottom line is that he makes movies because he cares and wants to see changes that would be better for all of us.
Why you critics don't see that and just want to go on bashing him instead of sharing in his vision of seeing a better world is pathetic.
"Guys like him are why documentaries aren't taken seriously anymore."
If that is not your opinion then where is that idea coming from?
I still see good docs. on TV now and then.
Of course you think you do. You think his movies are documentaries. Lol!
It's funny that people live in an age where Information is so readily available but they rarely verify what their told.
As for his vision, go ahead and see how it works. Every country around the world has some semblance of it.
You made the claim that docs. are not taken seriously anymore.
Where and when?
It is a bogus claim until you can show examples of actual cases of it.
So the docs I have seen of Dick Gregory, the LA riots and of a basketball player don't count just because you say they don't?
LOL
Talk about being filled with delusions of grandeur!
Both of you have a point.
Personally, although my politics align almost 100% with Moore's, I do find him a bit of a self-aggrandising blowhard who isn't above massaging the truth to make his point. He's a sloppy reporter/documentarian.
Then again, despite his shortcomings as a 'filmmaker', he's doing far more than me to fight the good fight (even if he can occasionally undermine his own, otherwise praiseworthy, argument via sloppy research and occasional overreaching), and RIGHT NOW, instead of nitpicking his docs, we need to focus on the more salient, and OBVIOUS, point, which is that something needs to be done about guns. We don't even need a Michael Moore documentary to tell us that.
Is his crime that he makes documentaries entertaining?
Do you know what they call a non-entertsining documentary?
Nothing. Nobody beats about them
Nope. It's not a documentary. It's propaganda. Since Moore, 90% of documentaries became trashy propaganda. They're entertaining, but factually irresponsible.
shareSeems contradictory to brush off a film that challenges the perspective of your hero but take that parting shot at the other poster for willful ignorance.
shareYeah, OK I'll go ahead and waste my time watching something I will end up disagreeing with anyway just to humor your ass.
Happy now?
I couldn’t care less how you entertain yourself (although rest assured it won’t have anything to do with my ass). I just thought your last line was hypocritical. I thought the film was even handed and had a lot of sympathy for Moore’s perspectives. It critiques his methods and how he has fabricated major aspects of his movies including the suggestion a bank teller would just hand you a rifle as you opened an account. It was a Borat-level set up
shareOK but the bank, in an odd twist of irony, is still giving out guns for opening an account.
Right?
So where is the so called lie that is being claimed that Moore did?
In the meantime you and others who criticize him miss the truths and the points he brings up in his movies because you all are distracting yourselves with what you claim he may exaggerate with, which is irrelevant.
It was a regional bank mostly operating in the more rural hunting areas in Michigan. The bank ran marketing campaign in the late 90’s - early 00’s where it offered shotguns and sporting rifles in lieu of interest payments to those who deposited funds for long-term investment. The depositor had to first go to local law enforcement and be fingerprinted and obtain a Michigan certificate for firearms purchase which then had to be presented to the bank. The bank then had to transfer the firearm from its warehouse (they called it a vault) 300 miles away via a licensed dealer who completed the federal background check and actually delivered the weapon to the customer at a much later point
The criticism of Moore was that he convinced the bank management into thinking he was doing a favorable story about the marketing strategy. He told them the story would be more effective if he could show a bank teller handing him a rifle the same day he opened his account. The bank stupidly agreed and then spent 30 days setting it up with Moore to get the law enforcement paperwork and finger printing completed and to arrange for the licensed dealer to chaperone the weapon transfer at the bank the moment he opened his account so that it could be staged for filming.
I acknowledge your point. This was an ill-conceived marketing campaign and Moore’s fundamental criticism was legit: it’s not a great idea to have a firearms giveaway to sell financial instruments. But he fabricated the scenario to make it look like there was no law enforcement or licensing or fingerprinting and that branch tellers had a stockpile of rifles and shotguns they were just handing to customers buying a $1,000 certificate of deposit. That’s why I said it was on par with a Borat parody rather than a fact-based documentary as he presented
What a concise clear explanation of the issues people have with the way MM presents things
"You like to keep yourself in the dark with the truth."
The irony...
For the youtube link, what part do they show him staging a gun giveaway?
shareI would have prob. checked it out of interest if the vid. would have started at that part.
Otherwise I have zero interest in watching a bunch of stuff I don't care about.
It's there if you change your mind and want to challenge your opinions.
shareI checked out the first 14 min. of it and read the comments.
Seeing this one tells me all I need to know so I don't have to waste any more time with it:
25 minutes into the film and I’m yet to see something that disproves all he says in his work. Until now is just personal attacks.
Check it all out. It's fun.
shareTrans people exist across the world, including my own wonderful nation, Britain. The difference is, we ain't shooting each other over here.
But my bad if you *weren't* trying to suggest that trans people are mentally ill.
Did you get the attention you were looking for?
shareI will certainly suggest that trans is a mental illness. It is in no way derogatory to accept that fact. Stop trying to police thought-crime. Until very recently, perhaps, it would have been listed as such in medical textbooks and so forth. Probably still is. Gender dysphoria, etc.
I consider myself on the Left, btw… and will in no way let the drooling idiots on this site control the narrative about what it means to be a liberal.
Vote Dark Brandon, 2024
*drooling idiots
Try again, bot. This time without the logical fallacy.