MovieChat Forums > Enough (2002) Discussion > 'Self defense isn't murder.'

'Self defense isn't murder.'


That's what Mitch should have said if he killed Slim at the end.

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Maybe that's the thing with this movie. Was it right or wrong?

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The reason she said self defense isn't murder is because she came there to kill him. That's the story she was going to tell the police, that she killed him in self defense. And that's why she tells Mitch, just like she told him about the letter in his drawer. She wants him to know she's going to kill him before he dies. It's also a way to let the views know that yes, she is definitly going to kill him, not just beat him up.

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Obviously she went there to murder her husband. She could have easily gathered evidence of abuse rather than snipping the wires and preparing to kill him.

But I couldn't even stomach that last scene. At the beginning of the movie, he is way fast and slaps her hard, while at the end, he lunges like a henchman in a Jackie Chan movie. J-Lo had 30 days to train and learn martial arts, and suddenly she's an assasin.

I have never had any self defense training. I weigh 230lbs, and I would fight J-Lo to the death tommorow. She weighs 108lbs? I just found it obnoxiously unrealistic. I believe that smaller women can be vicious fighters through training, but one thing I learned from gym class was that girls are less coordinated and take longer to learn athletic skills. He would have killed her, no doubt.

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At the beginning of the movie, he is way fast and slaps her hard, while at the end, he lunges like a henchman in a Jackie Chan movie.


Two totally different situations. In the beginning, Mitch is in control and Slim isn't expecting to get hit. At the end, Slim has her guard up and Mitch has lost control of the situation.

I weigh 230lbs, and I would fight J-Lo to the death tommorow. She weighs 108lbs? I just found it obnoxiously unrealistic.


No offense, but your opinion doesn't hold much water since you said yourself that you have never taken a self defense course. You underestimate their effectiveness.

In regards to this particular fight, J.Lo's training was very basic. Krav Maga 101, if you will. Krav Maga is very different than other martial arts in the sense that it's very streamlined and it doesn't take decades to master.

Also, being bigger doesn't mean you have the upper hand. All the strength in the world wouldn't matter if someone faster than you can outmaneuver you. Slim was for the most part, fighting defensively, using Mitch's strength against him, and when she did offensively attack, she went for the face, and that's gonna hurt no matter HOW strong you are.

one thing I learned from gym class was that girls are less coordinated and take longer to learn athletic skills


LMAO @ you taking your cues about women from, of all places, gym class. I guess it never occurred to you that those girls were only in the class because they had to be and thus didn't really try. For sports that place an emphasis on strength, your assertion might hold some truth, but women are generally faster and more agile than men.

If you are reading this, you have just lost The Game.

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Mitch started the fight, awhile ago. She finished it. She did the right thing. People like Mitch don't deserve the air that they breathe. He got what he deserved.

I know that a life without love is no life at all.

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alot of you ovioulsy have no idea what it's like to be beaten by a man and not be able to escape no matter where you go. What she did was self-defence

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i THINK it was in selfdefence so maybe he wasnt going to her the same day that she was going to get him, but he would have killed her later, she just got in before he did. so it was in self-defense

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This is obviously self defense, if slim didn't kill this guy as the lawyer sais 'he'll keep coming until he kills you' the police couldn't stop him so she'd either be on the run from him her whole life until he kills her and then she leaves her daughter with an abusive father or she can get rid of the problem. And to the people who said she should go to jail, seriously you need to understand that domestic violence is not only a crime itself but it reduces women to empty shells, if you were being followed by someone who wanted to kill you and couldn't get them locked away cos they'd get out would you honestly not do anything about?

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Slim did the right thing, because if she didin't end up killing him, he would have ended up doing the exact same thing to her. Slim had a right to kill him, because he physically abused her, and was threatning to kill her, and attempted to take Gracie away. If she did not kill him, he would have ended up killing her, and potentially harming Gracie.

All in all... right decison.

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You guys are ALL retarded...NO! It was not self defense! This was made clear in the movie when Slim said "Self defense isn't murder" and then Mitch denied it being self defense AND THEN Slim mentioned the letters she dropped in the drawer! Slim made it look like it was self defense, when really she was getting revenge on him and trying to save her own life because if she wouldn't have killed him he would have went after her until he killed her! This was just something she had to do for herself. It was NOT legal, but hell, what options did she have??? get killed by her crazy husband or go around the law and kill him and live happily ever after with her little girl?! I'm *beep* 16 years old and I seem to be the only one who actually understands the movie...you guys are a bunch of idiots.

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I have a question about US Law as even though I am a Criminology student, I am from Canada and haven't gotten too deep into other countries laws as of yet. Do you have "Battered Woman's Syndrome" as a lawful defence? Here in Canada we do and basically it means that any injury-causing (or fatal) act committed by a battered "woman", though it could be applied to a battered man as well, who has been abused seriously by their partner can be seen as self defence even if at that moment they abuser is not abusing. EX: a battered woman shoots her husband abuser in the head while he is sleeping on the couch. He wasnt abusing her THEN but he was, say, yesterday and 3 days last week, and countless other times during their relationship and there was no reason to think he wouldnt continue, maybe even the minute he woke up, so she was using "self defence" to protect herself from forseeable future attacks at the only time she was able to. It is of course a little more complicated than this and there are various other criteria it must meet and what-have-you but thats the gist of it, and even though I am aware this movie took place in California, here in Canada it would have been a prime example of Battered Womans Syndrome so it could very well have been seen as "self defence" even though intiated by the victim.

Thanks.

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I think we need to concentrate on real situations, and maybe comment on real stories. not stories written by Hollywood writers, who are paid to write a story that will sell.
bottom line -- this movie was not real. it may have struck alot of similarities concerning real abuse stories -- but the movie "Enough" was not real guys.
she got badly abused and went through hell, and the ending was a happy ending. period.
I think we can all agree not very many people were on "mitch's" side.
we got the happy ending we all love and crave.
why can't we just leave it at that?

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thank you candii kisses.
this is a movie---an entertaining one at that.
dont over analyze

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In Australia, we don't have that "self defense isn't murder" rule. If someone comes into our homes and tris to kill us, and we kill them IN SELF DEFENSE, we go to jail for murder!... i no, its stupid, but it's the law here...

As for slim, she did the right thing... and if your saying that he could have killed her bacause she's a girl... then,
1. That's shovanistic
2. Slim did what she had to do to protect herself and her daughter.
3. Agree's with 1 & 2

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"when really she was getting revenge on him and trying to save her own life because if she wouldn't have killed him he would have went after her until he killed her!"

That's one of the definitions of self-defense...

Preemptive strike might be a better term for it though.

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The defense is "Self defense or defense of others." She could easily argue that she was defending herself and her daughter from future attacks.

There was en episode of The Practice where a woman shot a drug dealer without direct provocation and got off on that statute.

Explanation of the law:
http://www.footnote.tv/ftvpractice08-1i.html

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He was going to Chicago to KILL HER. Whether she broke into his house or not, I believe it was self defense completely. This guy was not going to let her move on with her life obviously, he did everything in his power to make her life a living hell. He had broke into her home before with the intention of killing her, I believe, but she got away. In order to get her life back, SHE had to be the one to do something. Why sit around living in fear waiting for him to come back and kill you when you can go to him, on her terms, and give him what he deserved? The point is, it was either her or him. He would have killed her sooner or later if she didn't step up and take control.

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yes, i also belive it was self-defense... he was GOING to kill her, so in a way, he was provocing her...

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I didn't read all the posts but anyway here's my opinion, i just saw the movie two days ago. These situations are never easy nor clear. Slim didn't want to stay w/ a beating & cheating husband she was in her right to leave. Once there's a kid involved, she chose to take her because he beat her & proved to be a violent person.
Of course facing a jury (if discovered what really happened in that house) Slim would fast be put in jail. Why? Because she planned a murderer, protecting her own life? Yes, but not at that moment, she went there herself to kick his a**. True is, life sometimes is a b**** & she had to be one too! That line the cop said at the end, after the fight, says it all. If he wasn't him, it would soon be her! Sometimes the police just can't do justice, he had many contacts & money & she had to fight for herself. I liked the fact that her friends were there by her side & trying to her help, her father's money helped her a lot, many people in that situations don't have that kinda help, not too realist in there...
From the perfect marriage to the perfect murder. Life sukx!


P.S. Why put dear Bill in sux a mean character! He's the good guy, always! :D

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[deleted]

Right, Slim goes to the mans house and plans out how to kill him, then kills him asn you claim this is not murder. It is simply cold-blooded murder. At that stage she wasn't protecting herself, she was committing murder.


For relaxing times, make it Suntory time...

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It was self-defense. True in a real life situation she'd definatly have a difficult time proving that to the court, but we the viewers were able to see firsthand what she went through, what Mitch was doing to her and those she loved. We were able to see how he beat the crap out of her multiple times, how she fleed and he and his goons showed up trying to kill her, we heard his threats against her and her daughter, etc. So we all know for sure she was defending herself from an almost certain death/bodily harm at his hands. If any judge and jury was able to somehow see how it all played out from the viewers perspective theres not a court in the world who would say that she was not acting in self-defense.

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She still sought him out and premeditated killing him. Therefore it is murder, not self defense and a jury that saw what we did would probably give her a guilty charge (there is no way to now for certain either way though).


For relaxing times, make it Suntory time...

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I will say, that after watching this movie I was very disgusted to see the continuing and escalating level of violence from this man. I did though, see the signs from the beginning. Even at the diner when Noah Wyle was "hitting" on her and Mitch "defending her honor", there seemed something a little odd about him.

And what he said to the homeowner to get the house...did Slim hear him? I don't think she could have, or else why would she have that loving smile all over her face...it was definately disturbed behavior to threaten someone to get this house at all costs.

But anyway, this thread regards whether or not this was a case of self defense. Well, honestly, it wasn't, and I am not sure how it could be argued as such. What it was though, was justifiable homicide. This is a case where I believe she would have been booked and processed, but most likely released on bail until the trial. Then, once tried, her attorneys would most likely use the battered woman defense, and also argue justifiable homicide, and chances are, with witness testimony, from those who tried to help her out of the situation, and the guy who helped her later, plus perhaps medical evidence of the healed wounds (and maybe testimony from the little girl), she would be found not guilty.

There is the "defense of self or others" rationale of self defense, and it is still possible it could fall under this, however I do find this as a remote chance. More likely it is as I stated, justifiable homicide.

Jennifer

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