MovieChat Forums > Enough (2002) Discussion > 'Self defense isn't murder.'

'Self defense isn't murder.'

posted 19 years ago by monkeytalkspoop
200 replies | jump to latest

That's what Mitch should have said if he killed Slim at the end.

[–] dart_omega00 19 years ago

That would be true if he was the one who started the fight.
but since she WENT THERE TO KILL HIM it is MURDER no ifs ands or buts, its Cold blooded Murder.

and she should spend the rest of her life in jail knowing some one else has her kid

[–] monkeytalkspoop 19 years ago

"That would be true if he was the one who started the fight. "

Umm.. How? She hit him first.

She should go to jail.

[–] dart_omega00 19 years ago

"Umm.. How? She hit him first.

She should go to jail. "

I was talking about the qoute "'Self defense isn't murder.' "

when I said that.

the woman should get Death for taking another human's Life in cold blood

The guy who made this film should also get a healthy fine for not only

a: hiring J-lo for that film
B:for making the underground railroad for women(and some men) look like a pack of Murders and blood thrusty women out to get revange

[–] emily_67 19 years ago

well actually it wasn't murder becaus he would have hunted her down eventually and killed her and possibly hurt cracie so she might as well started this before he would she was simply ready to take him on i mean he did threat a lot so why shouldn't defend her self and her baby just like Ginger said
"You have a divine animal right to protect you and your ofspring.
If you watch the movie a couple of times you start to get it.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] vine_press00 19 years ago

yes but when she was about to kill him...she changed her mind so she didnt murder him.instead when he knocked her out and tried to kill her she pushed him in an act of self defense so he died and she looks innocent not only to the police but to the audience.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] weather3 19 years ago

mitch would have killed her people!

[–] LaPuertaDelCielo 19 years ago

First of all, abusive as hell as he may have been, she shouldn't have fought him. I don't think she meant to kill him when she struck him the last time and he fell off the second level onto the glass center table. Then she realized she went too far, but she realized her struggle was over.

I think you guys are misinterpreting her intentions because it's JLO (she wasn't good for this role.) But she did all this for her daughter. Don't you remember when she called her friend on the phone right before Mitch smashed the lamp in her head. Her friend told her "You have the divine animal right to protect the life of your offspring..."

I think that she was going to tell the cops what happened when they showed up, but then one of them said "You're one of the few lucky ones..." Then she gave him that look, as in "Ohh, yeah...self defense!" What would you have done?

I'M NO ANGEL

[–] Nature9000 13 years ago

1) As I learned in my criminal law class last semester: Legally if someone goes with the intention of killing, changes their mind and opts to not go through with it, then that person strikes them with the intent to kill (and Mitch had stated multiple times he would kill her, in that scene), if you fight back and end up killing, it IS self defense.

Also another fact that I believe people are forgetting. She's still married to him, she should still have a legal right, by marriage, to be in that house if her name is on it at all. While I'm not sure the specifics on that one, I'm pretty sure she was in the clear when she changed her mind and he attacked her.

At that point, that's when it changed, I do believe the movie followed those rules. It would have been murder if she didn't give up. Just like if, when she gave up and that lamp killed her, Mitch would have been in trouble. He's got a witness on the phone that just heard something, a witness that could say that Slim wasn't going to go through with it, so he would have been in trouble.

[–] Tiffany1567 13 years ago

1) As I learned in my criminal law class last semester: Legally if someone goes with the intention of killing, changes their mind and opts to not go through with it, then that person strikes them with the intent to kill (and Mitch had stated multiple times he would kill her, in that scene), if you fight back and end up killing, it IS self defense.

Also another fact that I believe people are forgetting. She's still married to him, she should still have a legal right, by marriage, to be in that house if her name is on it at all. While I'm not sure the specifics on that one, I'm pretty sure she was in the clear when she changed her mind and he attacked her.

At that point, that's when it changed, I do believe the movie followed those rules. It would have been murder if she didn't give up. Just like if, when she gave up and that lamp killed her, Mitch would have been in trouble. He's got a witness on the phone that just heard something, a witness that could say that Slim wasn't going to go through with it, so he would have been in trouble.

From someone who is majoring in CJ also.^

Final-Distance.net // Personal Blog & Art Site

[–] danixdefcon5 16 years ago

Good point, but Slim went to Mitch's house in the first place with the intent to murder him. She was still an intruder in his house, so I didn't really see anything wrong with Mitch knocking her out with the lamp because she was NEVER supposed to be in there.

If you remember well, she didn't just disable the alarms; she left a nice evidence trail. There's the letter where she 'tells' him she's meeting him at his house, and even put it in such a way that the cops would find it with *his* fingerprints (meaning he read the letter). Hell, even if the audience didn't get it, she actually TELLS Mitch what her plan is! (Incidentally, this is stupid, because if Mitch survives, he'll know what pieces of incriminating evidence will need to be destroyed.)

The irony of the whole thing is that in the end, Slim actually kills him in self-defense. Compare to "Sleeping with the Enemy", where the wife actually kills the guy in cold blood, under the pretext of tresspassing.

[–] Asteri-Atypical 19 years ago

she changed her mind so she didnt murder him.instead when he knocked her out and tried to kill her she pushed him in an act of self defense

Maybe she could have LOOKED innocent but her lack of being able to carry through doesn't make her any less guilty! The movie seemed to make her hesitate as if to make us feel she wasn't a murderer at heart. However, she still laid the plans and set them into motion! In fact the fact she was in the situation where she HAD to defend herself was a result of her own plans to kill him! Legally it might LOOK better, not knowing the whole story, but MORALLY it makes no difference if she hesitated or not. To me, it just made her look like a wuss.

It's not too terribly different from pushing someone off a building; it makes no difference if you change your mind while they're on the way down.

[–] chaoslaw8 16 years ago

i dont even know why im here (i havent even seen this movie) but i felt i should point out - if you hesitate due to a change of heart BEFORE murdering someone, it DOES make you less guilty. because you changed ur mind... and did not commit the murder?

IMDB – where all the spastics come to display their hatred for works of art. Time well spent...

[–] 16 years ago

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[–] always_keep_fighting 16 years ago

I agree...it was him or her, and she made the right decision. All the arguments against and for his killing have some merit, but it all boils down to the fact that she knew he'd find her, kill her, then take Gracie. To any mother, that is reason to kill.

You know the sound of wind rushing through treetops? That's my signature.

[–] so_adorkable 18 years ago

well for one
"Secondly, I don't have a problem with self-defense, but what Slim did was NOT self-defense. She broke into his house, cut his alarms off, and STARTED the fight. As much as I didn't like Mitch (I was never on his side from the get-go), I had to acknowledge Slim was not acting in self-defense. "

if he says she kidnapped the daughter and wants them both back and because she left
it still sorta is her house and all
but yes she changed her mind she didnt want to kill him
at the last part it just so happened that when she hit him she did it heard he fell and died
he could have stayed alive but fortunately for her didnt
he wouldve killed her anyway if he had the chance

[–] awdracer 18 years ago

I think that was the cheesiest line and IMO ruined the movie. The steps she took wasn't self-defense; it was underhanded attacks against someone. Sure most people would and (should) sympathize with her BUT...

I saw the number of crimes she committed while "self-defending". Just off the top of my head: Break and Enter, unlawful containment, assault, 1st degree murder. 1st degree murder because she removed all the knives, guns and other threats from easy access and cut the alarm, and disabled the usage of cellphones inside the house (his cellphone should list a history of the last calls dialed and 911 was attempted but didn't go through but should still be listed)

If the movie had any clue about what self-defense meant, they should've had him attacking her again IN HER HOUSE minding her own business. THAT would be self-defense.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] twinsana 18 years ago

when she broke in to his house and hid his guns and knives she was just making sure it was a fair fight and if you think what she did was wrong after every thing he did to her then you have never seen abuse up close.

[–] bubblinbudz 17 years ago

She didn't start the fight off. He cornered her until she felt she had no other way out. He was abusive and controlling and had tried to kill her on several occassions. I'm not saying what she did was right, because taking a persons life is wrong no matter what the circumstances. However he wouldn't of stopped chasing her, he began with a fear that his daughter would find out about his agression, then in further scenes he lost that and began to push his daughter around. It wasn't out of love, it was the control. They were HIS possessions. He would of found Slim and murdered her, taken Gracie and then most probably in the future been abusive and most probably have murdered her too. Then TWO lives would of been lost.

[–] Unusually74 15 years ago

SHE started the fight by slapping him around and provoking him.

[–] rdmains-1 15 years ago

He started it when he slapped her the first time, hit her the second time, broke into her house and attacked her and her child and had her followed all over the country!!

[–] cornesia_foster 17 years ago

I understand your plight, but I have to disagree at the same time. Yes, she broke into his home and she started the fight, but I think it could be looked at as self defense. He had been chasing her from hotel rooms and stalking her everywhere she moved. She tried to avoid any futher violence. And what about the last time he broken into HER and threated her life and told her "If I can't have you, know one will!" What kind of mess is that? So i'm sure she was thinking (just as I was) "Let me stop this *beep* before he kills me and my baby." At that point I do believe she acted in self defense when she carried out her G.I. Jane mission.

[–] caramelflava313 17 years ago

I agree with cornesia.

Mitch was so bent on trying to kill Slim that he could have seriously injured his own child. She wouldn't have been able to live a normal life with Mitch being alive, because he never would have left her alone.

But I think the writers could have come up with something better for the ending. Like, maybe Slim lets Mitch find her, after her training and all that and knowing he would try to kill her or at the very least, attack her again, she fights back.

Homer: [after hitting a deer statue] D'oh!
Lisa: A deer!
Marge: A female deer!

[–] WileyDairyGnome 13 years ago

She knew it wasn't self defense. She didn't care. She did what she had to, to protect herself and her child. He'd never stop coming after her and he wasn't going to jail. I'm sure she'd rather go to jail than live her life in fear.

-- I am a traveler of both time and space, to be where I have been

[–] Livana_Faolan 13 years ago

I agree. It would have been different if she had purchased a gun and used it against him if he broke into the hotel room or wherever she was staying. But what she did is nothing other than premeditated murder.

[–] cmverana 17 years ago

LOL what a bitter dude. BITTER. Lol, note to all who get's this far...
Men control the film industry. You constantly see women being degraded, looking weak, etc. But this movie showed the truth--the rest is all *beep* You're just a bitter guy who probably is a wife beater.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] EmilyTheDramaQueen 12 years ago

well actually it wasn't murder becaus he would have hunted her down eventually and killed her and possibly hurt cracie

Yeah but that won't hold up in court since there is no proof of that. She would have went to jail.

[–] mickey5606 18 years ago

I really disagree with dart_omega00 .This movie is realistic fiction.It could really happen in life.She should go to jail.What she did was revenge but still it was true

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] movieluvr29 18 years ago

She gave him exactly what he deserved.

[–] leomorena2002 19 years ago

Dart,

I take it that you have never been on the receiving end of domestic abuse. I take it that you aren't a parent either. As someone who has seen and experienced intimate partner violence, i can tell you that that woman had a right to defend herself and her child. Yes she hunted him down after he tracked her like an animal and terrorized her, her friends, loved ones, and her daughter....when he told her that if he couldn't have her no one else would...his literal translation was that he'd rather see her dead than let her go...so she is more than justified...that man was ruthless and would not have stopped until he killed her and possibly the child as well. I know many men like Mitch and have met many women who have experienced the same horrors as well...and until you have experienced this kind of terror or know people who have, until you have marched and held candles for the women killed by their lovers and husbands or looked into the eyes of a woman who's afraid to leave because she's afraid she'll be killed, then maybe you can make a statement that puts things in their proper perspective. She was hunted and she killed her hunter and abuser...so that she and her daughter might be free.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] Federal-Agent 19 years ago

this stupid movie is breaking the law...

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[–] bk21770 19 years ago

It is not what you konw it is what you can prove.

[–] newporttreehill 19 years ago

IMO I think that it was right for Slim to start the final fight. If she hadn't stood up to him and fought on her own terms, he would have went after her until he killed her or Gracie. She thought that if she didn't kill him he would have never stopped coming after her and gracie.

~* You Know You Love Me*~
--GossipGirl

[–] nickle_3536 18 years ago

Serpent of Silence, what you need to realize is that in Slim's case it was either kill or be killed. It was self defense because Mitch was following her, threatening her and trying to get her where ever she went, so she fought back. It was technically self defense. I admit that she may have been guilty of breaking and entering, but she did what she had to do to protect her and her daughter. Personally, I think just about any cop would consider this a case of self defense. And, like she said, she was just slapping him around a little bit, she wasn't intending to kill him. She wanted him to try to attack her first, which he did (since what Slim did can't really be construed as an attack). When he attempted to kill her, she then fought back. Like I said, she did what she had to do. If she hadn't done what she did, he would've probably eventually hunted her down and killed her and maybe even their daughter as well.

[–] dashofash 14 years ago

I think that when Slim said 'self defense isn't murder' she meant that was what she was going to tell the police when they arrived, that she was acting in self defense. She was clearly there to murder him though, that just wasnt the angle she was going to go with when she was explaining it to the police. I'm glad she killed him, I think I would have done the exact same thing if I was her, otherwise he would have kept hunting her until she was dead.

'nice socks man, nice socks'

[–] mickey5606 18 years ago

how is it breaking the law???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Asteri-Atypical 19 years ago

I know many men like Mitch and have met many women who have experienced the same horrors as well...

Just curious if you work in corrections? When I first read this I wondered how any single person could know "MANY" people like Mitch but then I realized maybe someone who works with prisoners could.

I agree what you say that morally she had the right; but this movie was more poorly executed than I might have hoped. The whole notion that to kill him she would depend on beating the s**t out of him seems like it wouldn't be the best way to take someone out if you had to. Besides, the whole notion of the movie being a woman who takes charge of her life and stands up to a man is somewhat undercut when the whole point of her physical assertion was just a device to get away with murder (no matter that it was justified)

[–] blackavar-bunnie 19 years ago

Oh, but you see, the movie wasn't claiming that she was defending herself. That's what SHE was claiming. She knows damn well that she was getting revenge. The only thing that happened was that she made it LOOK to the COURTS like it was self-defense.

[–] anuk78 18 years ago

Um technically HE started the fight when he threatened her in their home. So he deserved what he got. Scum bag.

www.myspace.com/mblahnikluver

[–] twilightfun 18 years ago

The idea, people, is that she set it up to look LIKE it's self defense, which equals she was the victimized; therefore, it wasn't murder, as perceived by officers. So mission accomplished. Remember, because I say it's a duck, if the listener doesn't know any better, in this case the police . . . it's a duck.

[–] the_moody_youngest 18 years ago

She went to fight him, she just got even more mad and ended up killing him. She wanted to prove that she wasn't his punching bag, she is human.

Troy is a cute name

[–] gradlg09 18 years ago

Your not very smart, are you. She only said self defense isnt murder because thats what she was gonna tell the police. She murdered him intentionally. But she was right for doing it. She was making her own justice. And justice is the consquence for bad actions, jusice is, in all fairness, the consequence a murderer or wrong doer endures for commited there bad act. Justice is making yourself or in this case your childs life safe. And 'slim' was right for doing what she had to do to have justice.

[–] jmirdana 18 years ago

You do realize she did not go there to kill him, but only did it after he attacked her again after being knocked to the ground. Yes she went there to pick a fight and should be charged but not with murder. Then again she had the right to do all that stuff after what he did to her.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] KateVanilla 16 years ago

It wasn't in cold blood. If it were cold blood, she would have killed him without reason. She knew that if she didn't kill him, he would eventually kill her. It was self-defense. And self-defense is not murder.

[–] andie-redhead 15 years ago

hahah i love how all you people think you know the law. you are totally BSing yourselves.

[–] ihategorgonzola 15 years ago

Sorry our justice system is bought by money.

[–] bfuente1 15 years ago

i have 3 words for all of you...The Burning Bed

[–] EmilyTheDramaQueen 12 years ago

The Burning bed is just one case and there have been others when abused women have been found not guilty but however sadly there have been other cases where they have gone to prison. But this movie didn't get into all of that so we don't know for sure.

[–] dalldorfw 14 years ago

"The best defence is a good offence"-The cook from 'Alice.'

[–] 14 years ago

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[–] mark-hansen11 13 years ago

She said it, because she wanted Mitch to know that was going to be her defense. She knew what she was doing, which is why she couldn't throw the tile on him after she knocked him out.

But also, it's funny how you take the side of the serial killer who abused her wife.

[–] hobbit_mania 19 years ago

Exactly what i was saying when i saw this film. I wouldn't have hated this movie as much if she just flat out said "yeah I'm going to murder him as revenge" instead of trying to justify it in an incorrect way.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] LaPuertaDelCielo 19 years ago

She wasn't taking entirely taking revenge...

I'M NO ANGEL

[–] hobbit_mania 19 years ago

Sure she was. She broke into his house with the intention of killing him, due to having been wronged before at his hands. That's for sure revenge right there. Her motive is sympathetic but she's still a murderer. See, if she had rigged her own dwelling Home Alone style when he went in for another attack, then it would have been self defense. Or, she just admitted what she was doing was murder.

[–] LaPuertaDelCielo 19 years ago

Yeah, but I guess she had to go after him in order for the movie to be more thrilling...or whatever

I'M NO ANGEL

[–] yen_ly2000 19 years ago

By saying 'Self defense isn't murder' she was saying that it's how she has everything staged to look like that so she can walk away with killing him. She is not saying that's the real reason....but no one will know since there are only 2 of them in the house.

I don't blame her a bit for everything she did. He is the bastard who forced her in that situation. A man who hits a woman is not a man at all. He is truly a coward....if he is a real man than he should picks fights who guys who can fight back. Instead he beats up his wife....one time after another for no good reasons.

[–] hobbit_mania 19 years ago

Yeah he was a bastard but if I wrote the script I would have had her get killed at the end just to have a swerve shocker ending.

Maybe if it was some other actress in the role instead of Jennifer Lopez I would have felt bad for her. JLo was being stupid by just taking it instead of incapacitating him with her singing.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] LaPuertaDelCielo 19 years ago

But then again, she didn't deserve a cheating husband that beat her up and put her and her little girl in danger in the first place.

I'M NO ANGEL

[–] movieluvr29 18 years ago

Well, originally, they did want Sandra Bullock to play Slim.

[–] kipfers_in_oz 19 years ago

Revenge?? No, revenge would be destroying everything in his life, the old slashing tyres, ripping up $5000 suits etc...kinda cool if ya ask me, but this was an act of pure self preservation...kill or be killed and all that. I have been on the receiving end of domestic abuse, and by god if i'd had the chance, i'd have killed him, just as sneakily and cleverly as she did, to protect me and my children. That woman is a legend as far as i'm concerned. And besides, whether she slapped him first or not, he attacked her, she fought back....self defence, and as a survivor of that crap myself i wouldnt, and couldn't, see it any other way.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] littleprettyone 19 years ago

I completley disagree with you. Nothing about what Slim did was revenge. I'm not totally agreeing with what she did, although I understand why she did it, and I certainly wouldn't condemn her for it. She broke into the house with the intention of freeing herself and her child from the grip of an abusive and violent *beep* It was nothing to do with revenge. If it had, she likely would've done it a lot sooner, and wouldn't have shown remorse halfway through the act.

"She broke into his house with the intention of killing him, due to having been wronged before at his hands."

That does not constitute revenge. She didn't break in because she'd been wronged at his hands, she did it because she knew he was going to attack her time and time again, and that this man wouldn't stop until he killed her. That is not revenge. Her motive was ultimately not hurting him, it was saving herself and her daughter. Although both had the same outcome, they are very different, which is what makes your statement wrong.

The Bride: You and I have unfinished business.
Bill: Baby, you ain't kidding.

[–] nickle_3536 18 years ago

She wasn't trying to murder him for what he did to her in the past, she wanted him dead because she feared what he would do in the future if she didn't. She did what she did to protect her and her daughter. Therefore, yes it was self defense, no matter how you look at it.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] hobbit_mania 19 years ago

Agreed. It would have been better if she had killed him after another attack.

Instead they have their protagonist become a murderer.

That's only okay for the Punisher.

[–] Camden003 19 years ago

OKAY, "ENOUGH"...already! That covered it extensively.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] SeeMeFleaMe 19 years ago

Jeezzzz are u all a bunch of mooks? Of course its not self defense... but its intended to look that way...derrrrrrrr.

Anyways... Horrible movie.

[–] Movieloverrrr 19 years ago

What´s the difference? Anyway, she didn´t anything bad. That was the only way to save herself and save her daughter

[–] imprinted 19 years ago

Republicans = it was ok what she did. e.g. invading Iraq
Democrats = she should go to jail because even though he was abusive in the past (that's when she should have fought back), she broke the law by breaking and entering and initiating physical abuse.
I agree with the latter, she could have waited outside the front door and waited for him to come home and try to hit her then she could have killed him.
LOCK 'ER UP!

p.s. how in the hell did she become jane bond in two weeks? puzzling, really...

[–] cambodianoise 19 years ago

"You saw him, he had a gun".
-Jack Palance

[–] nickybreen 19 years ago

Recent case in Australia,

Claire Macdonald, married to abusive, psycho of a husband - no question he beat her up and made her and her lives hell.

She dresses in combat gear, grabs a sniper rifle, hides in camo in a paddock, lures him over to the paddock, by getting one of the kids to tell him the ute's broken down, waits for an hour and a half with gun cocked, unloads six bullets into his back.

How long do you think she got in prison........

She walked.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] LaPuertaDelCielo 19 years ago

Well, of course she is guilty. But, she is not a perverse criminal, you know what I mean? She didn't find pleasure in killing him. It's not like she's gonna do the same to everyone out there. Ahh! I think we're thinking too hard about this.

I'M NO ANGEL

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] Themysterioustraveller00 19 years ago

Okay, now I've been readin' this for a while now and am gonna tackle a few points that were raised - if I'm wrong on anything then feel free to correct me, by the by.

1/ Slim would be incorrect in saying 'self-defence isn't murder'; Okay, now, you can argue on whether or not what she's doing IS self-defence...but, in actuality, I'm not sure that the people who dispute this are taking it in the proper context. Slim is SETTING THE GUY UP...that's why she planted the faked letters (written by herself, stating she's glad that he 'asked' her to come over and talk things over) before confronting him! So, yeah, when she's killed him...it's supposed to look like he lured HER there!! I know, the rights and wrongs of the issue are still open to debate but I thought I'd just put her INTENT into context...she's not naive, she's possesses a great depth of cunning.

2/ Slim would, after deciding that she hasn't got it in her to kill her husband after all, have been talked back into it by her friend who speaks to her over the phone/Slim should have denounced her husband and gone to court; Maybe, maybe...(wo)man is an unpredictable beast, after all. But, again, I think you're taking this out of context - if this situation was happening in real-life, then maybe the person involved WOULD have turned around and finished the deed. But this is a STORY in which certain things CAN be accepted once they're established...and I think that, in this story, once this character says to her friend, "I cannot do this" that's IT. She can't actually do the deed. It's kind of the same with the court-case - some people say that Slim would have stood at least a CHANCE if she'd gone to court with her husband for custody of their daughter; I think that, his powerful allies and (again) the fact that this is a STORY, we're supposed to accept that she would eventually have lost.

3/ What Slim intended to do was murderer, plain and simple; By LAW, well, this is all cut and dried - she intended to kill him and so, if she'd done it, she would have officially become a murderer. But this is only by the Laws LAID DOWN BY GOVERNMENT...remember what her friend said over the phone, "You have the divine right to protect your children." Maybe this would be no excuse in the Court of Human Law (the perspective of the Law) but, from the perspective of a mother, Slim is DEFENDING HER DAUGHTER; this guy has threatened her life, the lives of her friends and family, even the life of the daughter he's now trying to wrest control off away from her. Slim has come out of hiding, put her life on the line, to end this threat against those she loves once and for all...so, again, maybe this wouldn't fly if she'd ended up in front of a judge but the way I see it she was (in her heart) acting in self-defence by going for him. Maybe that makes me sound like a romantic but the Legal stand-point and the Morale stand-point are completely separate - some people think that good people don't kill full-stop but THAT'S really naive; soldiers kill other people all the time and aren't considered murderers (except by the bleeding heart liberals) BECAUSE THEY'RE DOING IT TO DEFEND THEIR COUNTRY. It's the same with Slim if you think about it - the attitude that she's an amorale murderer is black and white but this story, and the real-life situation it represents, isn't so simple. If it was then so many women wouldn't by trapped in it - Slim did what was instinctively best for her child, something which the Law sadly doesn't always aim towards.

And, finally, when it all comes down to it...Slim DIDN'T kill him. She was going to stop what she was doing, to not kill him even though doing so would have set her free - if the guy had, when he sprang to his feet, just CALLED THE POLICE then she'd have been arrested and he'd have gotten custody of their daughter; he'd have won and she'd have lost. But by giving into his instinctive violence, the thing that has caused this godforsaken situation to begin with, he does himself in; he causes his own death, Slim goes free and has custody of their child; good has triumphed over evil, morally if not legally.

And ironically evil has destroyed ITSELF...the guy did all of those reprehensible things because he had to feel like a 'man' and in the end he's killed because of that same twisted urge.

Thoughts, anyone...??

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] FlickChick614 19 years ago

we actually just covered this topic in my history of homicide class. many women have used the self defense argument successfuly in similar situations. im just kind of mad that everyone is saying slim should go to jail and nothing about mitch. yes, he does die but if he hadnt what would have happened? he would have killed her, gracie and probably her friends for interfering. he didnt care about gracie so that wouldnt have been good. granted she disabled his alarm system and hid his guns but what the heck did he need them for anyway? granted he didnt start the fight but he sure as heck willingly participated and he would have killed her if she hadnt killed him first so technically it was self defense at the end even if she did start the fight. but stop making slim look totally evil and letting mitch look awesome. he was a sleaze.

Don't hate all Americans because of the actions of a select few.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] FlickChick614 19 years ago

oh i know it was premeditated i just think the jacka** had it coming

Don't hate all Americans because of the actions of a select few.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] star2pilot 19 years ago

Legally, self defense can only be actions taken (1) ‘in the moment’ out of ‘reasonable fear’ for one’s life or the life of another. (2)You can not have taken ‘provocative action’ prior to self defense.

For example:
1) I can’t kill a guy who threatened me with a knife yesterday and claim it was self-defense. I may or may not have been able to kill him yesterday as he was threatening me, but I would have had to have exhausted reasonable measures or been required to take immediate action in order for it to stick.
2) I cannot go to the funeral of a black person and yell, “Yippee! Another dead N****!” and then claim self-defense for killing people who try to rip my head off (justifiable homicide perhaps).

Slim took provocative action and would likely be convicted of premeditated murder if she were brought to trial.
(PROPS Serp’)

By hate I get strength By strength I get power By power I get victory By victory My ties are broken

[–] Sweetestsixteen 19 years ago

Well in England a guy got 6 months for running over a child, and that was real, so if you need to put the bad people in jail, we should twist the law in our favour.

I agree that he would have killed her anyway, so personally I'd rather get there first.

^^The jury would probably pity her anyway (jury equity right?).^^

Anyway, I feel sorry for the person who said that their husband/boyfriend/partner abused them. It's just that I'm fed up with people not acknowledging the men who are abused as well.

Dance?-I am! And I'm Wild And Dancing!!

[–] macgirl66 14 years ago

How would anyone investigating Mitch's death know that Mitch threw the first punch? Many of Slim's friends and family knew she had been hit by him before even though she had never filed a police report. The fact that he died from a fall supports that it could have been an accidental fall during their fight. Mitch is not there to tell his side of the story so she can say anything she wants. The letters show she was invited. Also, he lied to his girlfriends all the time to keep them separate from his wife. Do you think he would tell them if he was thinking about reconciling with her (which we know he wasn't really, but still). She did a good job of making this look like a fight that he would have started. He could have cut the phone line so that she couldn't call for help. He had gone to serious lengths to harass her and told the people she cared about that they would be killed if they helped her. Lots of witnesses to show how unhinged he was. With her being the only witness and how beat up she was, I think she would have had a good chance of walking away. If she had shot him or knifed him, she would have had a much harder time.

To each their own...opinion

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[–] haileyfmr 18 years ago

I think you are being very simple minded. This guy had hunted her down everywhere she went. He has lots of money!! And friends that are cops!! He was harassing everyone she was close to. What would you do? A man like that thinks he is above the law. She did what any parent would do. Whatever it took to protect her child. Maybe she did go there with the sole intentions of killing him but if she had not then he would have caught her with her guard down and killed her. She needed the element of surprise to achieve victory. Murder is not the word to describe her actions. I think we should all commend her on her bravery. Some of you just say murder because you have no idea how it feels to be in a situation like that. My mother was beaten and abused by her boyfriend for years and you may be asking yourself "Why didn't she just leave?" FEAR!! Anyways she ended up leaving him and doing what may of you say Slim should have done. She went to the cops and got a restraining order. But like Slim says what do you do when he comes around throw it at him? He was like Mitch a piece of paper didn't scare him. He broke into my mother's home late at night on June 5, 2005 and stabbed her eight times in the chest. And worst of all he pled insanity and only has to serve ten years in a mental institution. I only wish she would have done what Slim did and took a stand on her own terms, suprised him and killed him. At least then she would be here. So before you go off and call Slim a murderer think: What if it was your mother, sister, or daughter? Would you still feel the way you did?

RIP
Loraine Saunders
August 10, 1965 - June 5, 2005

Thank you for your time and hopefully your understanding as well:

Hailey Westlind
age: 20

[–] CoffeePops 18 years ago

Here are my thoughts.

I thought she had every right to kill him. He deserved it. In the end it was self-defense because, even though she had the intent, she didn't kill him until he knocked her out e.g self defense.(that might be wrong but o well.)

She was protecting herself and her daughter and in no way was it revenge, the truth is the system doesn't work always, if you look (and you don't have to look that hard) you'll find cases where the girl does that whole court / restraining order and it doesn't work and she dies. You'll also find cases where she kills her husband and is convicted.

It's not revenge because she was protecting her family if it was revenge she would have gotten him when it was all done with like for exmaple: (true case) A girl got raped by 2 men when its done the girl takes the gun and shoots all three of them. she was found guilty of murder. and that was revenge. unfortunately

I find it self defense also because, he was hitting her first(before that last fight), he was hunting her down like an animal.

"And like she says "And if he try to come after her what does she do throw the paper at him?"

yeah so she dies and he may or may not go to jail.
there just not many choices.

*´¨)
¸.·´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)"Take a chance on
(¸.·´ (¸.·<3 me..."

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] reader24-1 19 years ago

wtf!! in the movie this man abused her,that bastard deseved to die,he was a freakin loser.hello!!!you people are crazy to say he should have killed her????what is this world coming too?

[–] AshXF 19 years ago

According to our current President, pre-emptive action against those who you see as an immediate threat is perfectly justified. Even if you are found to be in error later. So the government could get away with it but a single woman being terrorized by her husband and fearing for her life and her child couldn't?

I'm a self defense instructor, and I've taught Taekwondo as well as taken Krav Maga classes and I'll tell you the same thing I tell my students...no one has the right to terrorize you or try to injure you in any way. I don't advocate them going to the extremes Slim did in the movie, and I USUALLY tell them not to be the first oen to throw a punch.

However, I also tell them that there's no such thing as pure clean cut rules about this sort of thing. If someone is about to hurt you and you are 99.9999% sure you could stop them by acting first, then do it and worry about the consequences later.

I can't tell you how many battered women I've dealt with in self defense classes. When you're hunted, rational logical thought is a luxury. You're operating in survival mode and personal survival has little room for niceties.

I personally couldn't garuntee that in Slim's place I wouldn't have done the same thing, and I tend to value human life.

---Ashley

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] movieluvr29 18 years ago

I also would have killed him. Let's face it. It's a lot harder and more dangerous now to get out of an abusive situation then it was twenty years ago. It has become so hard that I feel the only way to end an abusive situation is to kill the abuser. Even if I ended up in jail, at least I would still be alive.

[–] nannernmd 19 years ago

Ok he was gonna kill her anyway she didnt have the power to defende herself in the begining so she came back stronger Ok it was self defense and spouse abuse is really bad and she didnt want to take it. So you kno wat to J-Lo and Slim or w/e u wanna call her more pwer to her. can u say Girl Power. lol i liked it cuz it showed tht girls can be very powerful and more poweful than men. So u kno wat i loved this movie and i dont think she murdered him an she didnt go their intending to murder him it just kinda happened and he really deserved it!!

~*Hannah*~

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] candii_kisses 19 years ago

OOOOOOOOkay guys. My father is a 54 year old police officer and this was his opinion....
In a moral sense, what she did was right. The movie clearly states that he would have continued to stalk her until he eventually killed her. However, she made crucial mistakes along the way.
1.)She should have "put his violence on record". This shows the police that he has a history of domestic violence. Which in the end would have helped her out tremendously.
2.)She should have filled a protection order against him for herself and her child.
If she had done these things, she could have protected her life and the life of her child. By filling the protection order, all she would have to do is pick up the phone and dial 911 if he showed up at her new residents. Infact, when she dialed 911, she wouldn't even have to talk to anyone, because if she had filled complaints and protection orders with the police, once 911 saw that the phone number belonged to her, they would know exactly what was going on. This would allow the police to show up prepared for what they were going to be dealing with. This would also ensure that "Mitch" wouldn't be able to make up any lies and slip away without an arrest. He would automatically be arrested for violating the protection order. On top of all of that, "Mitch" also wouldn't be able to see "Gracie", as a protection order of any kind, automatically dismisses any custody attempts.

HOWEVER, what she ended up doing at the end of the movie, was unfortunately wrong. After investigators and detectives went through the crime scene, more than likely she would have been arrested on some kind of charge. Later on, it would then be up to investigators and detectives, whether or not to proceed with any kind of murder charges.
Explanation:
What Jennifer Lopez did in the movie is called, premeditated murder. Which means that, she went to his area of residents with a specific idea in mind, which was to kill him. When an individual dwells on a specific idea and then spends time planning it out before they attempt it, it is not classified as self defense. Self-defense - self-defense is the use of force to protect oneself or one's family from harm; self defense is generally justified if it is proportional to the danger posed. Murder - The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice. Those are the legal definitions for both self-defense, and murder. Notice how the word "premeditated" is again used when describing murder. In the real life ending of this movie, Jennifer Lopez probably would have been found guilty of premeditated murder, after detectives and investigators found evidence, such as the phone lines being cut.
--- Bottom line- It is rare that someone kills another human being in self-defense after they have cut their phone lines, therefore purposely preventing them from seeking help. That shows absolute planning, which defeats the idea of self defense.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] Leiarie 19 years ago

This is totally untrue. A protective order does not stop a child custody case, nor does it prevent visitation. And it's very hard to get a protective order. I showed up in court severely beaten and having trouble walking and was denied a protective order with no explanation given. My ex was awarded unsupervised visitation with my daughter for nearly 3 years, even though I was impregnated via rape.

One occasion, before I was ever even pregnant with my daughter, my ex beat me up because I left a small amount of toothpaste in the sink when I brushed my teeth that morning. I never saw the toothpaste, but he said it was there when I got home that afternoon and he was waiting on me to beat me up. He then held me down telling me he was going to "burn the clothes off your [my] body." I started to cry hysterically and he started talking to me like he was trying to comfort me. It reminded me of how a parent would talk to a child after the child fell and skinned her knee. A few minutes later, he denied it had happened and said I must be going crazy.

After he went to work the next day, I went to the police station to file charges against him. The magistrate told me she wouldn't let me press charges because I was clearly angry and that she was not going to allow me to ruin his life. (I later found out that my ex knew all these people on first name basis and had gone to school with them.) The magistrate said that since he didn't actually set fire to me that it wasn't a crime and laughed in my face telling me to try and keep the house neater so he wouldn't be so mad at me.

THAT is what happens when a battered woman goes to police. I learned that very well. I would go to the police numerous times over the past 14 years trying to do something about him. He had his visitation rights terminated during the final divorce hearing because he had written me letters describing how he was going to kill me and my daughter and "lick the blood up with my [his] tongue" and how he looked forward to it and that it would be my fault for divorcing him. During the civil (divorce) case, the letters (he wrote 3 total with these threats) helped terminate his visitation rights, but during the criminal case with these letters, the judge said it wasn't a crime for a husband to write his wife a letter and found him not guilty of writing threatening letters.

My ex still bothers me to this day and the courts still don't keep him away from me, even though I now live in another state. He abducted my daughter a year after his visitation rights were terminated and law enforcement REFUSED to do anything about it. I only got her back because someone I met over the internet helped me track her down and take her back by force. My ex got away with it.

This movie was very disturbing to me because of what I've lived through. The ending after the violence started while the beginning part of the marriage didn't seem realistic of how these relationships are. My ex was controlling from day one and I was 16 when I met him. He told me he'd hurt my family if I tried to leave him and no one would listen to me. My mother didn't want me and he knew it, told her if she signed the papers that she wouldn't have to pay money for me ever again and she jumped at the chance. My parents never wanted me when I was born and told me all my life how worthless I was. A 16 year old girl shouldn't be put in that position. Adults are supposed to protect children. By the time I was 19 I got pregnant with my daughter and my daughter is what gave me the courage to finally try and get away from him because I didn't want her to live in those conditions.

I wish I hadn't seen this movie because it affected me badly. When he was hunting her down, it was reminding me and I suffer from PTSD, so I was experiencing flashbacks and panic attacks during the movie. I didn't realize what the movie was about when I saw it. I went to see it because Jennifer Lopez was in it, and I hadn't seen advertisements for the movie beforehand. I now research movies before I watch them though. It was an okay movie for someone who doesn't have PSTD from having suffered domestic violence I suppose.

Yeah, she should've filed a police report when it started just to have the paperwork, but I've gone to police each time it happened to me after it started getting really bad and the police just tell you to try harder at being a better wife and send you on your way. I learned that the hard way.

Tracy Thurman kept going to the police too, but look what happened to her. She was almost killed and the police didn't try to help her even when he was attacking her in front of them. That's the way police are in my experience. I don't trust any cops after what I've been through. I keep trying to file the paperwork just to cover my butt later if someone tries to say I've not done anything, but I pretty much know from 14 years of experience dealing with this that cops won't do anything to help you.

[–] candii_kisses 18 years ago

Ok. One thing I will correct you on though...if the protection order is filed under the name of the child, that means it is being filed to protect the life of the child. which of course then means that the father is considered a threat to the childs safety. therefore, custody hearings aren't usually granted after the protection order is put into place.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Leiarie 16 years ago

No, the phone lines being cut would have been seen as his cutting the lines because these people like to keep the victims without any means to get help.

And men like that keep after you. And protective orders don't mean squat and they don't prevent visitation or custody cases, either. I lived with an abuser with cop buddies. For years AFTER the divorce he was still able to track me down. The only reason he doesn't now is because he remarried and has to keep control of the new woman.

My ex even was going to set fire to me, but the courts did not care at all. They even denied me restraining orders even though I'd show up in court with bruises and injuries from the latest beating (and all of this went on for YEARS AFTER I left him!) and the judge would refuse to grant me a restraining order.

My ex recently started bothering me again because they're now garnishing child support out of his paycheck (he's a government employee) and tries to get ahold of my daughter who he's even denied at least twice since the divorce so that he doesn't have to pay child support.

What kind of loving dad would pepperspray his 5 1/2 month old daughter because his wife left him to keep him from beating on her anymore? And what kind of courts in this country would not care? That's the way it is in this country.

[–] bachelorboy15 19 years ago

I have to disagree with you here.
If Slim would have been charged with murder (which it was) she would be found innocent. She'd have a lot of people to testify against Mitch, even the police officer who told her that "she was one of the lucky ones". With that as evidence the jury wouldn't be able to find her guilty at all. It is true that what she did was against the law, but she had a justified reason for doing it, and I think that the jury would see that.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] candii_kisses 19 years ago

It would definitely be a very interesting trial to see. But I think it would obviously take alot of investigation on the part of the detectives and the lawyer prosecuting her. It's definitely a tough one.

[–] rjbauske 19 years ago

In some way, you have to agree that in some way, it is self-defense. She has the right to protect herself and her child from Mitch. Even though it was premeditated, hit him first, she could of made it look like in the end that she fought in self defense. I think that she did it to protect herself and her child so that Gracie didn't have to go through that hell.

If I don't make sense, that is okay. Everything about the end made sense to me.

"This is what I get. Blood, death and funky smells." "You and I have unfinished business."

[–] honeybubbles24 19 years ago

The police keep records of pictures of her beaten and everything, she had told many people of his violence and wreckless behaviour, so if he had killed her he would have gone to jail. One, because of his history and second because of the evidential proof (the letters) that Slim put in his drawer.

[–] Leiarie 19 years ago

Yeah, if he had killed her he may have gone to jail. So what? She'd been dead.

[–] candii_kisses 19 years ago

lol...I think I can safely say, all in all, we were all satisfied with the ending?

[–] Leiarie 19 years ago

Yes, I was glad he was dead in the end.

[–] countkat 19 years ago

Sajarie,
First let me say thank you for having the courage to share your story. Your post hit too close to home and everything you said was so true. Your daughter is lucky to have someone like you as a mom and role model. I hope you find peace and healing. I'm so sorry you had to deal with crooked people like that...the same people you entrust to serve and protect you. Imagine what would happen if they were in your situation. Thye would be singing a whole different tune.

Candii Kisses, Protection orders don't work. All they do is piss the guy off. And the woman is supposed to what...throw the paper at the guy if he comes around with a gun or knife? Say, 'Oh no Mr. Scary Guy, lets wait for the cops.' Or maybe she can hit him with the paper. And the orders don't apply to kids. they have to through orphans court. In my area not long ago a woman filed a PFA against her abusive hubby. One day she was leaving work and the guy comes up to her. She told him to get away from her and he shoots her dead in broad daylight. He was on AMW for it.

I have to agree with the people who say what Slim did was right. Mitch was planning on killing her. Once you run, you will run forever. My aunt was in a very abusive marriage. This guy was so abusive that when my cousin was 4. she was @ a bowling b-day party. She didn't want to bowl. She was only four. He took her into the bathroom and beat the crap out of her. Her screams echoed throughout the whole bowling alley! She had so many marks from him. So did my aunt. She finally got sneaky and hoarded a nice sized nest egg and left along with my cousin. This was 6 years ago. He has tried to break into the house a couple of times. He broke into her car. Her fiance carries a gun with him at all times in case. My cousin has not seen her dad in 6 years. My aunt can't get full custody of her younger son b/c my cousin is too terrified to testify in court, and what he would do to her if the judge ruled in favor of joint custody.

I know I'm babbling. Maybe I'm biased or cynical. Maybe I'm right. Who can say for sure. I have my opinions and I just expressed and explained why.
Toodlez!

"Richard, were you watching...spanktrovision??"

[–] shaunastewart6368 19 years ago

What she did in this movie may not have been self defence but it was, for sure, self preservation. Did she murder him? Yeah of course she did, and she thought it out and pre-meditated it and made sure she covered her tracks and I commend her for doing it. I wish more woman had the guts to do that. I've been abused and he's still threatening me and my daughter two years later. I can honestly say that if I could set it up the way she did and get away with it then I would do it in a heartbeat and I wouldn't even feel bad about it. People like that are a waste of space and don't deserve to live. I feel the same about rapists, child molesters, abusers, etc, etc. Vigilante justice gets the job done when the "law" refuses to do anything about it. I'm just praying for the day when the death penalty comes back to Canada. The way I see it they should let the victims have their way with them. Let the parents of a molested child at the molester...that's true justice right there. Let an abused wife dish the abuse to her husband...give then a taste of how it feels. If we have the right to put down a rabid dog then we should have the right to put down all the useless criminals who commit horrible acts of violence everday against women and children. Lethal injection costs too much...line em up against a wall and shoot them...then watch the crime rate drop. Or hang them in the street like they used to do...strike some fear into people again.

Slim had every right to do what she did. I think she should have tied him up and dragged it out a little longer...give him a taste of the terror that he put her through. More woman should stand up like she did. If she would have went to jail it would have sent the message that Mitch won...that no matter what she did he would always have control over her. That's not the message that should be sent. The movie was sending the message that abused woman are not powerless, no matter how rich or big their husband is. That even a seemingly poor woman could make it out of an abusive relationship and put a final end to it.

Self defence and self preservation are not murder.
Why spend my tax dollars to put them in a 5 star jail where it costs more then I make in 2 years to keep them there for 6 months. Where they have all the luxeries of home and hopes of one day returning to the outside world again so they can screw up someone else's life. Just put them down it's a lot cheaper...eye for an eye.

People like that don't matter...they are useless in this world...they don't deserve to live...period.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] candii_kisses 19 years ago

As far as protection orders go..you have to have some kind of trust in the legal system inorder for them to work. But one other option that was slightly touched on and then quickly looked over was...a womans shelter. They can be very effective in keeping women safe, only because they are usually run by women who have delt with abusive husbands before, first hand.

But I really do truly believe, there are more options out there than just murder. Would she have explored them? Could she have explored them? I don't know. But there is ALWAYS other options when it comes to murder.

[–] Leiarie 19 years ago

I've been in women's shelters before. They aren't what people think they are. They want to control the women while they are there and blame the women for the abuse. Every one of the shelters I stayed at did so, although one in particular was really bad. Once you got there, you were assigned chores and you were expected to do chores all day. If you didn't do it to the satisfaction of the staff, you were written up. And you had to do it by a certain time. There were no exceptions. It didn't even matter if you knew you had the chore to do or whether you had to go to court or not. I went to court out of state for a restraining order, and while I was away from the shelter, a woman moved out of the shelter and I was assigned her chores while I wasn't even there to find out about them. I was in court. They didn't care. I got wrote up over it.

One of the women asked a worker why we had to stay in and do chores all day and the worker replied, "if you knew how to do it properly you wouldn't have to be here in the first place." They figured if we knew how to clean the house to please the man good enough that he wouldn't have to hit us. The emotional abuse they heaped upon us was just as bad as what the abuser would do.

I was thrown out of the shelter because I couldn't do the chores. I had just had a baby and was sick, and that wasn't good enough excuse for them. I was still suffering injuries from the beating months before I got there and had trouble even holding my baby and had to use a snuggli/front carrying pack to carry her because my arms would give out without warning or my legs would and I'd fall or drop whatever I was carrying without warning. I had severe nerve damage. We were to get on our hands and knees and scrub the floors. We were to cook meals for the other women. Plus, we weren't allowed to leave the children alone, not even for a second, but we weren't allowed to take the children into the kitchen with us. So, how were we supposed to do the chores? They were throwing the women out left and right. They loved powertripping over us.

This one woman came there with 2 young children and a baby. She'd been beaten pretty badly and it was late at night. The worker immediately jumped on her because the children weren't in bed (there were strict bedtimes for the children. I got wrote up repeatedly because my newborn baby wasn't asleep by 8pm!). The children had just seen their mother beat up and the workers expected them to be immediately in bed. The mother couldn't get them to sleep because they were so upset, so the workers told her if she couldn't obey the rules she had to leave. They yelled at the children because they arrived crying, hysterical, because it was against their rules for kids to cause a disturbance. (I got wrote up for laughing during a Wings tv episode because the worker said laughing was abusive behavior.) They didn't even allow her ten minutes from the time she got there to get the kids settled. So she called a cab and went back home to her abuser.

That's been my experience with these shelters. They portray an image to the public of helping the women, and a few of them may, but most of them are run in this manner.

When I got thrown out, the worker told me that I "had the potential of becoming a good person someday." The same worker that made the comment about our having to be there because we didn't know how to do chores properly. I wanted to slug her, but instead I was glad to leave the place.

Oh yeah, and having trust in the legal system doesn't make a protective order work. I went into the experience with total naivity, thinking because I was telling the truth and that the law said such and such that I would receive protection and justice. Even when I had temporary protective orders, the cops, magistrates, and judges REFUSED to enforce them. Then I kept getting denied permanent orders. I learned the hard way that having trust in the legal system doesn't mean that it does what it's supposed to. It's just like jumping out of a window while having trust that flapping your arms really fast will make you fly. Either way you fall flat on your face.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] song_bird2103 18 years ago

You have to watch the movie and really get in touch with the character to understand why she did what she did. Put yourself in her place and think about it. Ask yourself if you would do the same thing in her situation. Mitch had connections, which enabled him to track her down anytime he wanted to track her down. He made that clear when he showed up at her new place and then sent the other guy to tail her in that car chase. It's the same when she was staying at the motel.

Sooner or later, he would've gotten to her and killed her. She managed to get away from him with the help from her friends, and that set him off. He didn't start sending people after her until she managed to get out of their home. When she stayed at her friend's place, his goons raided his apartment looking for her, and they probably would've killed him (her friend) in the process of looking for her. They were crooked people, and so was Mitch.

Mitch didn't even care about the little girl enough to not abuse her. If he would've managed to kill Slim, he could've easily gotten to the little girl, and then who knows what. I don't know about you, but if I found myself in such a situation as that, then I couldn't keep running. Eventually, I would've done what she did, or worse.

And I totally support what she said. Self defense isn't muder. In her case, it wasn't murder. He was using foul play and, eventually, would've killed her. She had no choice, at all. He abused her and she found a defensive. At first, it was running away. Then, when he kept coming, and she realized there was no other way to have peace besides doing what she did, she reacted on that, immediately.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] 18 years ago

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