Just because horrible things happen in real life doesn't mean that capturing them on film does anyone a service or makes any artistic statement.
It's stupid, it's pointless, and it certainly isn't brilliant. Dark, evil and unfortunate maybe, but I laugh at the pretentiousness of people who call movies like this "brilliant."
Rape and murder don't make life brilliant. You can close your eyes and life will seem wonderful. Untill some of that stupid, pointless things happen to you or to someone of your family or someone you love. Then you'll see the reality, and if you haven't been prepared it will hit you like a rock.
The scenes we have seen in this movie are not much more grahic and stronger than in average modern movie, compared to many action or horrors they are almost mild. What is shocking is the timing: for 90 percent of the movie we see almost ordinary coming-of-age story in French style, bitter but realistic. Problems that many teenagers have to deal with. And then suddenly, when things almost calmed down to a peaceful ending we witness an abrupt act of savage violence.
Yes, I had some idea about what I was to see, and still I shivered, I lost my breath.
But when you walk down the park and next moment you are on your knees... or when a door bell (or phone) wakes you at 4 a.m. - believe me, you'll realize how brilliant a movie and how horrifying a life can be.
I think it is safe to say that the vast majority of people never experience events like those which happen in the end of this movie. To suggest that this movie does viewers a service of "preparing" them for awful events is quite silly to me. Terrible things hit everyone like a rock unless they have been completely desensitized, which can't be good.
I guess my point is that art should draw us out of the unfortunate realities of life and give us reason to believe in the good that still exists in humanity. True art, even in film, expresses what life doesn't. It shows us the greatness of man and his shortcomings. It keeps us lying awake at night not out of fear, but instead out of wonder at our potential. It inspires. It amazes. It questions. Because it gives us something that we do not have, we pay money to experience it. In my opinion, this film does nothing of the sort.
I guess I just expect film to show me something that turns my stomach and my mind--not just my stomach.
I don't say THIS film was made to, can or will prepare people for anything. I say that movies INCLUDING this one do it. They warn people on what can happen in their lives. THIS movie warns much more on bad family relations, neglecting kids or favorizing one of them making other(s) feeling worthless, losers; implanting wrong values during most sensitive period of their lives; avoiding recognizing problems and pretending everything's O.K. as long as noone verbalises them (and most of these teenagers will never do it; if they could do it they probably wouldn't have problems at all).
But, among its main messages, there is also the effect of that sudden violence. No, most people don't have experience of being killed, but most of us (I believe) knows at least one person that was murdered. It doesn't have to be this kind of crime, but every murder, every death traumatizes everyone, even if you are just passing by or hear it on the TV news. Rape is something much more likely to experience, and, believe me or not (you have no reason to believe, but I can't imagine any reason why would I lie about it), a person very close to me who recently passed through everything this act brings (including police investigation, court etc) told me that it was watching the movies what helped her - from general idea what to do during assault, to knowing what to do after (not to jeopardize police activities by destroying evidence) and to cope with the consequences. And she, though having bad days and nightmares, never had to look for professional psychologic or psychiatric help.
It is beautiful to see hope and optimism in movies. I adore Capra, Wilder, Spielberg, Lubitsch, Zemeckis, Hallström, but that's just one side of art (even some of their movies show dark side of life, though usually have happy endings and positive message). Real art must send a message, and it can't be always pleasant. It is a position of spoiled child that hears only how clever - good - beautiful etc. it is, and never can accept any critics. Or it is simply ignoring the real life that isn't a wonderful world.
Living in dreams, having too much false optimism, brings us in danger of becoming insensitive. We may be good people, never harm anyone, but simply don't recognize evil around us, pain in hearts of people who live with us, people that we trully love. But, as we love them and the world is so wonderful and everything good always gets rewarded, we may fail to see that our sibling, our child, our friend, our colleague feels miserable deep inside, showing only little signs, and we are too high to notice them... just like what was happening to Anais...
Depression is a disease of tomorrow. It is expected to become one of the most frequent causes of death (especially among younger people) within one or two decades. It is great to fight it with optimistic movies. But we can easily be cheated that our lack of depression means it doesn't exist in people around us.
How is that in any way pretentious? By liking a certain kind of film?
What, by your definition makes a film worthy?
You choose to ignore all the things that happen in the film and pick out two things that occur, simplify them and then say that since the subject matter isn't deemed interesting by you it can't genuinely interest anyone else or add elements which make the film good to some people..?
That's assuming you've even saw it and aren't just here to troll like the others who have objections.
I'd rather be called pretentious and laughed at for that than being so dim that all I see in a film is an act of violence, disregard the rest and be laughed at for that (ie: you)
From the top of my head I can only think of 1 other film that I like which includes rape (and I only saw it for the first time about a month ago) as a main part of the plot, and in case you haven't noticed almost all films include a death (or more)
Oftentimes murder, why? It's not the murders or rape that make people like films, it's the complex emotions to do with them. I really don't see how you could miss that and see rape or violence as a simple act that doesn't tie in with the film.
Go on, tell me what you think would have made the film interesting in your opinion ?
And that's all i have to say about that. For now.
Unlike many other posters who just complain and condemn, the opening poster seems to bee polite, open for discussion and I believe seen the entire movie (not only heard of some content finding it unwanted or even illegal, and finding him/herself qualified, responsible and important enough to express own attitude). This posters seems willing to participate in a real discussion about a movie, otherwise I would ignore him/her; taking part in ridiculous discussions on this board is something I'd rather avoid from now on.
I hope this could be a constructive thread. Just let's try not to attack each others as long as we don't get a definite prove that some of the participants don't have open mind and good will.
That's fine, and I agree, but the opening poster was the one who stated off the bat that the film was terrible and they laughed at people who liked it.
I know they mentioned they liked inspiring films, but what does that mean to them? I am interested in specific examples.
I reserve the right to be bitchy to someone who comes on with such a cocky attitude, although I can see that it's not exactly productive, so i'll tone down.
And that's all i have to say about that. For now.
Just because horrible things happen in real life doesn't mean that capturing them on film does anyone a service or makes any artistic statement.
Why not? Does this film not follow some aspect of real life. I mean, for the majority of us, probably not. But to say that it doesn't happen to someone everyday would be a total lie. No one thinks bad things are gonna happen to them, until it happens. I'm sure all the people who've been raped or murdered didn't think it was going to be them.
Here's a fact: someone is going to get murdered, you're going to hear it on the news. The chance of it being you is low, but it doesn't change the fact it is 100 percent certain that it's going to happen.
Why not just have a film where the lead just gets clipped off by random violence? That's what happens to people in real life, just ask all the dead people from the news. Or ignore it and predend nothing bad ever happens.
Not to mention the fact that the director said that part of the film (the random killing at the end) was based on a true story.
Art is in the eye of the beholder. I don't consider watching 15 year olds getting raped as art. Maybe Roman Polanski would, but not any normal well adjusted individual.
shareI completely agree. I can't consider rape an art. Especially as I had an experience of talking with victims of rape (one of them being a member of my family).
But as much as I remember the rape scene lasts for not more than 2 minutes, so it takes about 3% of a movie length, and should be watched only as a part of it. If someone uses a FF button and watches only certain (this or any other scene), out of the context, it is impossible to get an impression. It is as if you watch only a tree in the background of some da Vinci or Goya picture, or listen only to ten or twenty notes of Bohemian Rhapsody or Aida, and think you can feel it, understand it and make decision about its quality. Rape scene in a movie is not a rape scene, but an integral and an important part of the storyline, and should be viewed only in context. It is not a claim of accepting or rejecting rape as a normal behavior (so far I haven't read any post that condones it).
And, the way you write it, makes me ask you: at what age of victim would rape become an art?
Hmmmm... first off... I am deeply offended by the OP poster's name. And bewildered. Since when do AIDS jokes constitute "approvable" media... but rape and murder unacceptable subject matter for a mature, serious film made by a women?
O.K. OP... here's how it works. This is what drama is. Let's go back to where theatre and public dramatic narrative, i.e tragedy was conceived: Ancient Greece. All origins of film, narrative, media, ect we can look back to the Greeks as they practically invented the tragedy. And what are the most basic characteristics of the tragic? From Aeschylus on it seems that all manner of human crime and transgression from murder, rape, incest, human sacrifice, patricide, matricide, torture, killing children, cannibalism, self-mutilation and god knows what else where always part and parcel of great, intelligent work. Is this merely because the Greeks where as some would characterize them a perverse, bloodthirsty society? Hell no! It's because they understood that in order to create a catharsis in the viewer, you must take on the heavy stuff. The dark matter. Because it is in the world of extremes that humanity gazes into the void, and finds it's character. Now, of course simply putting violence into your film does not make it automatically good. Of course. Putting any unmotivated plot detail in will flop. But as a staunch follower of the ancient tragedy, I’m going to stand up and say that yes: violence in a certain genre of film is not only good, it’s necessary. The Greeks understood that media is EXACTLY where we need to take on these issues to keep violence from the streets. Because it’s the only place where we can safely confront and ruminate about the matter.
The OP wants everything roses and sunshine. But here in the world, rape and murder are a reality. Stating that “Oh it doesn’t happen that often so why make a film about it” is not only devaluing the atrocious pain abuse victims live with, but it’s also like saying “World War II only happened once so why should we keep making films about it?” It’s the nature of tragic drama baby. Get over it.
Hey Przgzr my bro... whud up?
Hey Monkeyfist... I'm still ugly, unattractive and sociopathic... but still killed or raped nobody. Does that mean I'm proving your theory?
Back to topic. I wouldn't care about posters name, and also I wouldn't emphasize the fact that this movie was made by women (in the context you have put it in). Some topics seem to be allowed only for women, if men make touch them they are sexists, perverts, or simply don't understand; if women handle them, it becomes art. However, in other context differences between male and female point of view on same topics can be extremely interesting, and comparing them can be a step forward to understand art, reality and relations between sexes as well. Yet first both women and men should be allowed to make movies and not to be limited by cliches, tradition or political correctness ordering them which topics or style should be a taboo for any of them.
Your analysis about tragedy shows that you are well informed, art is your homeland and it's a pity we can't read more from you.
Brilliant no, but the movie has stayed with me while others have just faded from my memory.
shareI have never said that this movie was brilliant.
I have never said that rape and murder make movies brilliant.
I will however never agree with people who say that rape and murder exclude any chance for a movie to be brilliant. This is a ridiculous generalization.
And whether this movie is brilliant or not, it is not because of rape or killing but because it has or hasn't certain qualities all along the movie, and not in one or several scenes. And the same criteria should be used for any movie, one by one particular, and never in general.
Brilliant filmmaking makes movies brilliant.
Movies about rape and murder can be brilliant, if handled well. Or they can just be tasteless. Just as movies about sweet nice people doing awfully inspirational things can be brilliant, or they can be just dull.
Really, subject matter has nothing to do with quality.
Rape and murder doesn't make movies like Twentynine Palms brilliant, but that's because Bruno Dumont is an idiot.
Fat Girl is excellent though.
You're correct. Rape and murder don't make movies brilliant. It's ones own perception of the film and is solely discretionary to the viewer whether it's "brilliant" or not. To each his own.
Some are offended by films such as this. What's curious to me however is the tendency of some film viewers to be uneducated by the synopsis, subject matter and MPAA ratings. Whenever i'm turned on to a new movie i've yet heard of by a friend or here on IMDB i always do my research! far be it for me to waste my money or limited time on a movie that could potentially disinterest me..If ive done my research, and still dislike the movie none the less, then i've my own self to blame. All to often i read threads where people are quick to trash a movie (and those who liked it) based on subject matter. If rape and murder in cinema isn't your cup of tea, then do yourself (and countless others here on IMDB) a favor and steer clear. I'm not here to imply that you are weak or a compromised film lover if you don't fancy certain types of movies. It's your absolute right as an individual what you wish to view. (as it is for those of us who appreciate this film) Just consider yourself accountable for your own viewing decisions.
@OP
I agree 100%. (And you'll notice 2 names appearing in all of these critical posts -- przqzr and pracad. It makes me wonder if these folks aren't in some way connected with the director or the film or both. They certainly seem to have a vested interest in defending this most questionable movie.)
"Love isn't what you say or how you feel, it's what you DO". (The Last Kiss)
Somebody who disagrees with you has a biased interest in disagreeing with you?
Have you ever had a sensible debate in your life???
Hardly. But when the same few people are so heavily invested that they keep ramming home the same points over and over in every thread, it's rather suspicious. Or maybe you don't believe that shills exist on IMDb.
"Love isn't what you say or how you feel, it's what you DO". (The Last Kiss)
I laugh at the pretentiousness of people who call movies like this "brilliant."