MovieChat Forums > Enemy at the Gates (2001) Discussion > This is insulting.

This is insulting.

posted 15 years ago by tokyostreetkiller
153 replies | jump to latest

Hey guys. I'm what you call a student of WWII and more specifically, one of the Eastern Front. I am a fan of military history and myself am a member of the US Army. I checked out this film becuase it was staged in the epic battle of Stalingrad. I was very excited about it. I've never seen a film involving Stalingrad before. I have indeed compiled a library of footage from the battle that was filmed from documentaries and the like. But I've never seen a film based on it.

After watching the film I have to say, it was rubbish. I mean, it's a very nice piece of fiction but, it carries no historical weight whatsoever. As an American, even I am offended by the films portrayal of the Soviet Soldiers. No country in the 20th century sacrificed more and lost more than Russia. And to show them in such a crass display of disrespect is appalling. I can't understand why nobody even thought to research this subject. To discount the bravery of the Soviets who at that time did what no other Army had done is wrong.

Where was General Chuikov? Why was there a love story? Really? a freaking love story? These filmmakers want me to believe that amidst the single most horrific battle in human history, a couple of soldiers had time for a little trist? I can't believe that!

I can only hope that someday a major film is made about this battle which is honest, sincere and faithful to the many who have fallen doing the bravest of deeds -- defending their homeland.

"Let's get out of here before one of those things kills Guy!"

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] EtheSamps 15 years ago

Might I recommend 'Stalingrad,' from 1993...excellent movie about the battle.

[–] schugeorge1967 15 years ago

Uh, dude, its a movie not documentary.even so, i have to believe that it is somewhat historically accurate and any parts that aren't i'm sure weren't done blatantly. I don't see where the soviets were portrait as cowards actually i think the director did a nice job portraying them as brave soldiers ready to fight. maybe an individual here or there but in general they were all ready to die if neccessary. about the love story part. yes, i agree that it is kinda hokie but its not like every single second of every day was gunfire and the like so its not like there implying that there falling in love while bullets are firing or grenades are exploding, besides its an okay sub plot and when a man and woman are given the chance any chance theyre gonna take advantage of it.plus if i'm not mistaking they already knew each other (I may be wrong, won't be the first or last).. finally, if it offended you you need to take sensativity classes with a therapist.

[–] Old_Man_From_Scene_24 15 years ago

Don't want to sound offensive here, but the Russians were insane in WW2. What they did at the start (1 rifle for 2 men and killing the retreaters) was perfectly true.

As for the love story, I don't think it was insane. I know any ordinary human wouldn't think that either. Why should people remove love from their lives just because of a war? I know I wouldn't. I wouldn't trade it for anything.

[–] Whythorne 15 years ago

My Grandpa fought at Stalingrad and was best friends with Zaytsev as well as Major Konig. He said everything in this movie is 99% accurate. The only differences was that Khrushchev was better looking than Bob Hoskins. Also, sometimes the Russian officers shot soldiers who were going forward as well as retreating. You see, they were mischievous and got a big kick out of shooting their own people in the back as well as the front. That way the soldiers didn't know which way they were supposed to be going. After a while even the Nazis got so confused they decided just to leave.

(this post is partially based on a semi-true story, names and incidents may have been changed for dramatic purposes)

[–] Old_Man_From_Scene_24 15 years ago

No offence to your grandfather, but I think that really shows just how insane the Russian leaders were. But still, they managed to win eventually and get their revenge by razing Berlin, so it all worked out in the end. Although I don't think the means justified the ends...

[–] toky-world 15 years ago

There were many many many many epic battles fought by russians in WW2 (sadly what make them epic was the massive loss of lives and yet they still prevailed).

What pisses me the *beep* off is that Hollyweird (and videogames too) portrays USA as the only and true savior of WW2 as in they single handledly won the war.

here read this...
search a cracked article of most widely believed *beep* facts of ww2

The most important allied was Russia. I hope one day we'll get to see more movies about the epic battles.

[–] lennartz 15 years ago

"USA as the only and true savior of WW2 as in they single handledly won the war"

hear, hear !
The USA does this a lot, especially in movies.
And it´s damn important to be historically `correct´.
Without a doubt the Russians have suffered the most and fought the most fierce battles.

The USA lost about a half a million troops during WW2, with few (in relation to this half-a-million figure) civilian casualties.
The Russians lost almost 24 million "comrades" during WW2, of which about half were civilians and about 1 million were russian jews.

I don´t want to diminish the heroic effords the USA has made during WW2, but I understand this sense of "insult" that Russians must feel very well. If you talk WW2, Russia has a very prominent space in it. And that fact has been translated to WW2 movies very poorly, mostly due to the USA.

And by the way, I´am not Russian.

[–] ollisfin 15 years ago

Umm and still all you guys miss the simple fact that the german sniper, könig or wtf he is called, never existed.

[–] toky-world 15 years ago

NO

But there was a finnish a*hole who killed like 500 with his sniper rifle and 250 with his SMG. He was axis... too bad the russians didnt send Vassili after him...that wouldve been some showdown.

Search for Simo Hayha.

Especially in cracked.com

[–] ollisfin 15 years ago

He did not have a "sniper rifle", just a regular military rifle. I doubt it would have been any showdown, the tactics and terrain have nothing to do with what is shown in the film. While Hayha was fighting Zaytsev was still sitting in an office toying with his pencil.

[–] ryan34300 15 years ago

For some reason whenever a war movie is made someone in the armed forces ALWAYS makes a post stating how most of it is fiction and completely unrealistic. Maybe they just can't help it but I watch movies for entertainment alone unless it's a Documentary and I'm expecting to learn something of actual events.

[–] ryan34300 15 years ago

[–] ollisfin 15 years ago

Why make entertainment of a subject that should be a documentary?

[–] toky-world 15 years ago

This wasnt entretainment this was a true story based mostly on the memories of Vasily.

Simo Hayha 705 kills vs Vasily Zaytsev 245 kills.

Check out the wiki bio on Simo...damn! all with no scope to avoid sun glare, and he put snow in his mouth so there was no breath steam.

This guy was hardcore.

[–] ollisfin 15 years ago

Based on a true story with the true story left out.

Its nothing special to be a sniper without using a scope. No breath steam used by hunters ages before Hayha. He was no superhuman. If you knew anything of how the Winter War was fought and where you would find out that Hayha was nothing that you think of the word "sniper". He was more like a sharpshooter, he only became a sniper trough fictional stories (and american FANBOIS!).

His kills are propably superseeded by a lot of people, even by some who fought beside him. They just didn`t count their kills.

[–] skoobaba 15 years ago

Indiana Jones must be insulting too then, since it takes place during WWII. Those movies arn`t historically accurate either...

[–] oobie-1 15 years ago

Uh ohhh..World War II nerds...

Did anyone mention that every one speaks English in this film?
An American playing a Nazi sniper and British people playing Soviet Russians?

This movie is always fun to watch...Just read a history book then.

I don't like love stories or any movies with them, But if your fighting a war and there is down time and you think your going to maybe die tomorrow and there are chicks around that are verrry good looking, you'd probably try to seduce & bang them too!

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] toky-world 14 years ago

in that battle russians killed more germans than france in the entire *beep* war

[–] The LA Baker (971) 7 years ago

"My Grandpa fought at Stalingrad and was best friends with Zaytsev as well as Major Konig. He said everything in this movie is 99% accurate."

Best friends with Zaitsev and Konig? You must explain how that is even possible.

"sometimes the Russian officers shot soldiers who were going forward as well as retreating. You see, they were mischievous and got a big kick out of shooting their own people in the back as well as the front. That way the soldiers didn't know which way they were supposed to be going. After a while even the Nazis got so confused they decided just to leave."

I call bullshit. There is no historical prescience for what you are claiming. Not even cold war anti-Russian propaganda claims that. You either made that up or your grandfather did.

[–] Inspector-71 15 years ago

to the OP. you are a student of WWII and hope to see a good movie about the battle of Stalingrad. Perhaps you should see the movie Stalingrad (1993). watch the subtitle version as the English dubbing could be the worst ever done.

[–] EXPLICITSOUL5 14 years ago

I am pretty sure someone has pointed this out since this is an old thread. But it's late and I don't have the energy to read through,lol! You should check out the movie "Stalingrad" it ten time better than this movie. It tells the story through the German POV. Peace.

Panaluv

[–] bindimax 14 years ago

I think in the sense of accuracy and keeping the faith of what was legendary, I would agree. I myself posted a biting and flaming opinion of the remake of "Clash of the Titans" (long and short of THAT, I *beep* HATED IT!)
Maybe this film, however attempted to appeal to western audiences who wanted to see the humanity that fueled the INHUMANITY of the resultant Orwellian nightmare that became the Soviet Socialists empire. Who can deny that the Soviet socialists were bastards to their own people? It's their word against historical accounts, after all...