Amélie dubbed, PLEASE! - Le fabuleux destin d'Amélie Poulain (2002) Discussion

[–] 14 years ago

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] rickmeister95 14 years ago

I haven't seen (heard) a dubbed version of Amélie, and don't want to.
I understand the frustration of reading sub-titles and feeling distracted by them, and for many who are dyslexic, dubbing is simply necessary. Otherwise however, it's a matter of learning a kind of speed-reading skill that is a Hell of a lot easier than learning the language. Lol.
For me, it's the fake voice-overs that are distracting. I haven't learned any skill to overcome that.
Some pictures are dubbed by the actual actors while still in production, this is as close as any film should get to it - and this too can fail.

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[–] CtlAltDel 14 years ago

yes, and who could is star? I know, how about Lady Gaga LOL

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[–] StanleyBrewer 14 years ago

Well, I guess I'll just learn French! How's that for dedication to a film? I love Amélie, both the film AND the character! :)

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[–] mikerowerush 14 years ago

i love foreign language films but hate dubbed films.....watching subtitles is easy and only adds to the experience..how anyone could watch a dubbed amelie....solaris...war and peace.... jules et jim...etc is beyond me.

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[–] megArnold 14 years ago

Over here in Germany, dubbing is standard procedure. The dubbing industry is highest quality (because they are catering to 100 million viewers, they can afford it) and the voice actors are on a par with the original actors, often renowned screen actors themselves. Scenes are rehearsed and recorded like a stage play or, better, a radio drama, with all the passion of the original actors.

In a way, all animation movies are "dubbed" from the beginning, so how would a live-action dubbed movie be different?

Things get lost in translation, of course, but about 90% of moviegoers watch dubbed films, without having to read distracting text on the bottom of the screen (and subconsciously checking if the translation is right all the time, if they speak English - I do that all the time and it IS distracting.)

Actually, I prefer the original versions WITHOUT subtitles, but if you are used to them, dubbed movies are by no means "irritating" or "distracting". They are a commodity.

--
Hmmm?

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[–] Captain_Bob 14 years ago

As a native English speaker who lived in Germany for a few years, I couldn't stand all the English (or other) language movies being dubbed into German. Yes there is a 100 million population that supposedly appeciates it, but so much is often lost in the translation (especially humourous points) and many of the supposed "star" voice actors (the same guy usually voices the same actors, e.g. Sylvestor Stallone has one German guy who does all his movies) don't seem to have much of a clue about personifying the real character.

Same would go for dubbing an excellent French movie like "Amelie" into English. There is so much talent inherent in Audrey Tautou's performance that would be lost. If you've been educated up to University level you might have at least some grasp of French language (in the US at least you can't graduate without at least some foreign language courses and French is a favorite option) but if not just hear her voice and follow the story with your imagination. Way better in my opinion than having it falsely replaced by someone else's (heaven forbid American accented) voiceover. Then flip on the English subtitles (on DVD) if that helps, but an overdub English option would miss out on so much of it's quality.

Oh and back to the German overdub topic, just look at your Dutch neighbours who don't do it, and look again how much better command of English they have. Nederlanders have the best English skills in all of continental Europe for a reason.

Bottom line: watch movies in their indended language, flip on subtitles if that helps, otherwise skip it and miss out.

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[–] CrazyVaclav 11 years ago

Please explain how things that get lost in translation in a dubbed movie don't get lost in translation in a subtitled movie for watchers who actually need the subtitles.

I strongly support dubbing, because you can't fully enjoy a movie visually if you have to read subtitles. Good voice artists are actors just like the original stars are actors. It's not even guaranteed that the original actors are better than the dubbers: sometimes they are, sometimes they are not.

Of course if you're used to Stallone's original voice you'll hate to hear him dubbed, but that's due to your habit, not the dubber's fault.

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[–] spookyrat1 9 years ago

... you can't fully enjoy a movie visually if you have to read subtitles.

Now we know why you're called Crazy ... Vaclav.🐭

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[–] Nephilim-6 9 years ago

As someone who has had training in communication I can tell you exactly why dubbing movies loses information in translation.

In communication only about 20% are the actual words. The other 80% is the way people act and the emotion they put into their words.

And that last bit gets watered down considerably when people try to interpret existing dialogue.

Did you ever notice that people who believe in creationism look really un-evolved? - Bill Hicks

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[–] feodoric 9 years ago

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry. Did I make my point clear? Dubbing sucks. It NEVER matches all that is contained in the original language, in its true nuances. Of course subtitles cannot convey all that the original voices say either. On the other hand, there is a reality that is captured in the original recording of the actors' voices. I used to watch Italian or Japanese movies in their dubbed version but when I began adept at reading subtitles, I switched to the original language version and I'm so glad now when I watch a movie in a foreign language that I can't understand (I speak and understand French and Englush perfectly, and German up to a good point) when subtitles are available in one of the languages I know.

One of the most pleasurable experiences in my life was when I was studying German and knew it enough to be able to watch Das Boot in its original version. Of course I had watched it a couple of years earlier in its French version so that I already knew rhe story but still, I was able to follow most of the conversations in German ( which was sort of accent-neutral and easy to grasp) without looking at subtitles and boy! that gives such a feeling of exhilaration. It's like being able to reach a treasure after deciphering the combination of the safe where it was
Dubbing is close to dumbing.

Is it safe? What is safe? Is it safe? Yes, very safe? Is it safe? No, not at all! Is it safe? Aaahh!

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] Alexmiles 13 years ago

How can you say that subtitles are distracting and just a few sentences later say that dubbed movies are in no way irritating or distracting?

Obivously, it's just a matter of habit and being used to something... I live in Slovenia, a country too small for dubbing and I'm so grateful because I think that so many things get lost with it; phrases, jokes, emotions. Not to even mention the horrible fact that the mouth of the person talking is moving incorrectly. It annoys the hell out of me but I guess it's because I'm not used to it and also I find it degrading; it's basically changing a piece of art.

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[–] adriaticHR 13 years ago

dubbed movies are so retarded, dubbing ruins the whole move as it takes away like 50% of acting and meaning and turns it into a turd pile.

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[–] angelgodsheir 13 years ago

of course if you're used to drink tee without sugar for your whole life you won't miss the sugar... every body goes to a dubbed movie without any issues but that doesn't change the fact that they are silly, even subtitles doesn't do the trick... the best way to watch a film is its original language without subtitles... but if you don't understand a word the subtitles are the best option.

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[–] Diced_CH 12 years ago

I'm Swiss-German myself and can't stand all the dubbed foreign movies. That's why I refuse to watch any foreign movie with English dub at the cinema or TV and wait for the DVD release and order them from the UK (if necessary).

I think I'm in the absolute minority since almost everyone I know in my social environment actually enjoys such dubbed movies (or at least they don't mind it).

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[–] mangrovelady 12 years ago

HAVE YOU EVER FOUND ONE IN ENGLISH? I AM ALSO LOOKING. THE ONLY DUBBED ONE I SAW WAS ON THE AIRPLANE BACK FROM FRANCE. MY EMAIL IS [email protected] I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO KNOW WHERE YOU GOT ONE IF YOU FOUND IT, THANKS

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[–] Lilibetp 14 years ago

I wish it was possible to have French subtitles on the DVD. Now that I know what they're saying, it would be nice to be able to see it and match it to what you hear. Great way to learn French.

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[–] WileyDairyGnome 14 years ago

Let me guess...you're American.

-- I am a traveler of both time and space, to be where I have been

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] Max_Sydney 13 years ago

Dubbing doesn't ruin movies. Most European directors make films ready to dub since there are so many languages in Europe. It is only the USA where dubbed flms are percieved as 'less pure' or inauthentic. Also, for those who say that dialogue and meaning is lost in translation, even more is lost with subtitles as you are translating into a foreign language *and* into written language.

Really great films like Run Lola Run and Amelie made worse by subtites as you can't appreciate the fantastic visuals.
More importantly, films with as much charm as Amelie should really have characters with voices we can hear and understand. Without listening to the dialogue, it's much harder to emotionally connect with the characters. For those who wonder what's that like, turn off the dialogue and subtitles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=duGbgrv9LRE

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[–] CrazyVaclav 11 years ago

Also, for those who say that dialogue and meaning is lost in translation, even more is lost with subtitles as you are translating into a foreign language *and* into written language.

Exactly. Not only that, but the subtitles will sometimes need to be an abbreviated version of the original lines.
Anti-dubbing movie snobs, gimme a break. Good thing you are a minority.

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[–] Chromaggia-Le-Fatale 14 years ago

So it looses it's charm? just read and stop moaning.

Be as thou wast wont to be, See as thou wast wont to see...

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[–] jerseyd1 14 years ago

IF WE JUST READ, WE CANT PAY ATTENTION TO THE MOVIE TAKING PLACE ABOVE THE WORDS.
NOW DO YOU U N D E R S T A N D.
YOU PRETENTIOUS A$$HOLE.

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[–] Prague_Czech_it_out 14 years ago

Then read the movie the first time and watch it the second. Sorry I had no problem reading and watching.

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[–] boonjj 14 years ago

you really watched the whole movie without knowing what they were saying?

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[–] bodryn 13 years ago

My two cents: I have watched a fair number of foreign movies with subtitles, and sometimes have found them very enjoyable. Dubbing voices in would cause worse damage to a movie than the misguided effort of colorization did a few years ago. A truly excellent movie must be viewed in its original language. As for subtitles, my wife and I routinely watch English language DVDs with subtitles on, because oftentimes, dialogue can be heard wrong, or hardly heard at all. It is worth noting that sometimes English language subtitles do not show the exact words the character said. Likewise, translations are always a tricky business.

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[–] stevenvh 13 years ago

Why are you shouting at us?

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[–] The_NightRaven 11 years ago

Maybe try to READ and WATCH SIMULTANEOUSLY? It's funny, but our brains and TWO eyes are created so that we can process completely everything in our view-field without any problems at all. In fact, you (yes, you too) don't even have to focus on the text in order to process it and understand the dialogue, just keep it at the bottom of your view-field and your brain will subconsciously pick it up. I will not believe anyone who tells me they can't do this, rather I believe that they never bothered to try because they, for some reason, hate subs and sub(hah)consciously Refuse to do it.
In fact, there is no difference between the subtitles at the bottom of the screen, and the rest of the screen, it's all an image anyway, so if you really wan't to take in Everything on the screen, then why should the tiny line a the bottom be so impossible to include?

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[–] alioth4 9 years ago

Maybe because some people don't read as fast as others?

I myself have no problem with subtitles, prefer them over dubbing, and my brain probably processes them much as you describe. But I can also read fairly fast. I have a friend who's quite intelligent, but does have problems reading quickly (he's not "book smart", but he's by no means unintelligent, and he often picks up on some things in movies quicker than I do, or gets insights I don't--and we often have deep conversations about a good film we watched, or other things). But give him subtitles and he has to consciously read them, and often they are too quick for him to finish before new lines appear (especially in rapid dialogue), and often he has to pause the movie if he wants to get all of the dialogue. Distracting for both of us if we're watching together. So sadly, we don't enjoy too many foreign films together because it gets too frustrating for him.

Then there are elderly people who may have trouble reading small type on a TV screen. The couple times I watched a subtitled movie (or English-language movie with some subtitled dialogue) with my grandfather in his latter years, I had to read the subtitles aloud to him--and my voice was far worse than professional dubbing, I think .

People do have differing skills in this. It took a little practice for me at first, even though I have a lot of written-word intelligence and can read almost unthinkingly fast. Of course, if you don't recognize such differences, I suppose it can be easy to simply suppose such people who can't zip through subtitles are too lazy or stubborn to try. At least you aren't calling them stupid, as I've heard some do in the endless debates on this issue.

I wouldn't mind both options being available for a film, to fit different needs. I mean, why not? We can still have our subtitles, others can have dubbing if it works better for them. Of course, having both options would cost more money so probably would only happen with major titles where the market will be deemed big enough. But then again, more options to accomodate more people may very well also increase the market for a given film. And it would allow more people to get at least some appreciation from films in languages foreign to them (even if dubbing isn't as "pure" a form), like my friend, or many of the elderly.

I will not believe anyone who tells me they can't do this

You mean, you can't fathom that someone may not have the same abilities you do? Also I tend to give people benefit of the doubt if they are describing a difficulty that I have no way of verifying in them.

Understanding is a three-edged sword.

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[–] The_NightRaven 9 years ago

Everyone can train their reading speed, if they actually want to.

"You mean, you can't fathom that someone may not have the same abilities you do? Also I tend to give people benefit of the doubt if they are describing a difficulty that I have no way of verifying in them."

No, I can't, and I believe that it is very patronizing to do so as well. You should always assume that everyone has At Least the same abilities as you, if not even more.

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[–] alioth4 9 years ago

"You mean, you can't fathom that someone may not have the same abilities you do? Also I tend to give people benefit of the doubt if they are describing a difficulty that I have no way of verifying in them."

No, I can't, and I believe that it is very patronizing to do so as well. You should always assume that everyone has At Least the same abilities as you, if not even more.

Upon just meeting a person, sure. But if they actually tell you something like that about themselves, I would think it would be worse if you either

a) presume they are lying, or
b) presume to know more about them than they know about themselves.

Not that people don't lie about themselves sometimes, and not that some people aren't lazy and don't try hard enough for your satisfaction . But it's a pretty observable fact that people do have different strengths and weaknesses (even people who put a lot of effort in a given area). Not everyone is as athletically coordinated as Michael Jordan, as scientifically minded as Stephen Hawking, as musically gifted as Paul McCartney, etc. My friend (who I've known for over 20 years, but I still wouldn't presume to know more about him than he does himself ) is very mechanically inclined, and can do things with cars that go right over my head. He's also a master pipe welder with skills in high demand in the job market. I admire those skills, but I also have skills he doesn't but that he admires in me. It takes all kinds of different people (with different talents) to make the world go around.

As for the thread topic: adding a dubbed version or option to a movie that already has subtitle options, isn't going to take away the subtitle options we prefer. So what would be the problem with adding that as an option then? Aren't more options generally better than less options? A very few of the foreign movies I own (maybe 10% if that--mainly Chinese ones) do have both options (subtitles and dubbing), and when I watch them by myself I choose the subtitles (yay me!). But with my friend we can use the dubbing. Did the world end?

Understanding is a three-edged sword.

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[–] west3210 13 years ago

Is it really that hard to read and follow the story? I watched 100s of movies with subtitles and I never had that problem. You just might be too lazy, spoiled, have distraction problem or problem with reading IDK. Dubbed versions are irritating - even in Germany, I lived there and I couldn't stand that. True, it's well done but still, movies lose too much with different voices (no matter how good they are, they can't replace original voices - not even close) and different language.

You go Glen Coco...

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[–] LoizaAldea 13 years ago

Amelie is a wonderful film. Its one of the first French films I watched.

I have to say dubbed movies are horrendous to watch. I am an American who would much rather watch a movie its native language, it's the beauty of them being Foreing film. The first dubbed movie I attempted to watch was Run Lola Run. That's how bad I wanted to see it again. I bought it, I regretted it and didn't finish watching it.

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[–] ted777 13 years ago

I think I have watched 1000s of films with subtitles, and there are in fact some that I have had problems with, to be honest. Must be because I am American. Some films I don't think I would care all that much whether I was watching the original voices or not. Personally there are very few animated features I'd have the patience to "read" (I don't think the syncing works all that well the first time around, anyway), and a fair amount of action films I'd throw into the "so what" category. Some films are dubbed in whatever version you are watching. So the "original" is the one where all the extras speak Italian, but the principals were brought in from elsewhere and dubbed into Italian. Which version would I rather see?
Oh, and I lived in Germany and the dubbing bothered me too, 'cause my German wasn't good enough to follow all the movies I wanted to see. Who's fault was that?

In the end, I have no desire to see "Amelie" dubbed, but if I ever really wanted to study the scenery, perhaps on the tenth viewing I'd suffer some dubbing for a little more art.

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[–] amblount 13 years ago

I've always shared your opinion, and i loved hearing the french throughout the movie, but this was the first film where the subtitles distracted me. There was so much going on in the background during some parts and it changed so fast. It changed multiple times during the same line. My eyes would go from subtitle to images, back and forth, and by the end i realized i didn't really comprehend either.
I'm sure going over it one more time will help, but I found myself for the first time frustrated with the subtitles.

"Never judge a book by its movie."

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[–] alioth4 9 years ago

or problem with reading

So people who have lesser reading skills aren't worthy of experiencing this film?

Why not have both options on the DVD (a few films do), so people can use the one that works best for them? (I know that may not be financially feasible for all movies or especially translation to languages other than the "major" ones with big markets.) There are some quite intelligent people (I know a couple) who do have reading issues, and don't just effortlessly glide over words subconsciously like I or perhaps you do when viewing subtitles.

(Note: I prefer subtitles myself, and they work best for me, as they apparently also do for you. But I have a friend who has genuine difficulties with these--he can't read that quickly but he's certainly quite verbally intelligent when we discuss things. He has to consciously read subtitles, like at the speed he would read something aloud, whereas my eyes glide over the words subconsciously. I think he'd appreciate a lot of foreign films (he's fairly adventurous and open-minded) if he didn't have this difficulty that makes him have to pause the movie to read the more rapid parts of the dialogue, or if the dubbed option was at least available (better than nothing, right?). We watch a lot of films together, but sadly no foreign ones after the first couple times we've tried and it got too frustrating for him (and me, when he has to keep pausing it or backing up, particularly during the rapid-dialogue parts, which greatly disrupts the flow of a movie). I'd gladly sit through a dubbed option on the DVD (I can always watch subtitles later if I haven't already) if I could share some of the great foreign films I like with him, and get his (often different from mine) insights on them. He may not be "book smart" (he does read books, just at a "more leisurely" pace), but he is intelligent, thoughtful, and often has some intriguing perspectives. Why dismiss people like that, because they don't have the same abilities you do? What would Amelie do  ?)

Understanding is a three-edged sword.

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[–] kevin-124-32038 13 years ago

you lose a lot of the point of a film when you watch it dubbed. actors cannot properly portray emotions if their voices are dubbed over by another actor trying to convey those same emotions over it. its like making a photocopy of a photocopy, it just gets worse and worse. just keep practicing watching subtitled films till you can get to a point where you can read quickly and focus less on the text and more on whats happening. it will become second nature to you, and will enrich your viewing experience.

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[–] smarsh12 13 years ago

While I understand that some things get lost in translation, having the option of playing a dubbed audio track on the dvd would be nice. I wouldn't use it when I watch it alone but with it, my mom, who has problems reading subtitles since suffering a stroke, would be able to watch the film with me. Right now, the only way she can watch the film is with me reading the subtitles to her.

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[–] kevin-124-32038 13 years ago

its not just some of the context that gets lost in translation. the very poetry of a film easily becomes lost when dubbing. dubbing is great for special circumstances like yours, but if its just a case of laziness, then you (not directed at you specifically, but all viewers) should just stick to watching movies like white chicks or meet the spartans.

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[–] CrazyVaclav 11 years ago

actors cannot properly portray emotions if their voices are dubbed over by another actor trying to convey those same emotions over it.

Who says that?? A good dubber can even do a better job than the original actor!

You seem to view acting as a sort of magical process that can't be touched, adapted or replicated... That's very naive.

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[–] kevin-124-32038 11 years ago

i take it you did not read my follow up comment. as a bilingual person i can tell you that things always get lost in translation when being translated between languages, simply because there is a certain poetry that becomes lost. consider the fact that in many languages there are words that don't exist in others that convey extremely specific ideas and emotions that cannot be replicated without extensive explanation.

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[–] CrazyVaclav 11 years ago

I am bilingual too, and the translation argument also applies to subtitles.

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[–] Jussslic 13 years ago

NO! This movie is perfect just the way it is. Watch it twice, you'll be able to focus more on the atmosphere and cinematography the second time around.

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