MovieChat Forums > Training Day (2001) Discussion > Why did Alonzo need Jake?

Why did Alonzo need Jake?

posted 4 years ago by CoachGainz (453)
13 replies | jump to latest

So, I can't quite figure out why Alonzo had a need for Jake. If Alonzo had been planning his hit on Roger all week I would assume Jake was part of that plan. Why else would he take on a new recruit the same day he was about to commit a very dangerous bust that required very careful planning?

But Jake plays no part in the plan aside from taking the credit "blame" of killing Roger. Wouldn't have been easier just to have one of the other "already tested and corrupted" members take the heat for shooting Roger? Roger was a armed criminal. Wouldn't shooting Roger have a fairly low risk for experience decorated officers? I could be wrong but wouldn't those guys have already been exposed to that kind of work? The one guy seemed to be fine with getting shot in order to falsify evidence and even made it sound like it was standard work for him. Or maybe killing Roger was a level of task they'd never been ask of and they knew Alonzo was really throwing Jake under the bus.

I suppose Alonzo might have needed assistance busting the drug dealer and robbing the Sandman, but again why not use of the other guys? The only reason I can think is that the other guys where more aware of Alonzo's ways. And would have been tougher to convince to help with what they knew was very sketchy grunt work. While Jake being a rookie wouldn't question until after the fact.

I suppose this all might support the theory that Alonzo planned to kill Jake all along. Jake's whole purpose to the day was helping Alonzo pull off his sketchy ground work to get the warrant for Roger and then pinning the shooting of Roger on Jake. Then have Jake killed to tie up all loose ends.

Thoughts?

[–] redban (6198) 4 years ago

I don’t think he “needed” Jake. He just would have liked to have had Jake in his scheme. His scheme probably works out smoother if the fresh, clean-cut choir boy does the deed. Internal Affairs is less likely to suspect that a new officer would be part of a corrupt police enterprise whereas they might suspect the others could be in cahoots.

Secondly - Alonzo was earnestly looking to add Jake to the clique. He did appear to really like Jake at certain points (eg rooster scene). Had Jake accepted the money and agreed to shoot Roger, then Alonzo wouldn’t have killed Jake; he would have accepted Jake as part of the group. But once he saw that Jake was impossible to corrupt, he realized then that he had to kill Jake. Right after they shoot Roger, we indeed hear Alonzo talk to Smiley on the phone about making “sure that bathtub is clean.” That part was when Alonzo decided that he had to kill Jake, not before. Until Jake refuses to shoot Roger, Alonzo had no plans to kill him. His initial plan was to recruit Jake.

[–] [deleted] 3 years ago

The bathtub would get bloody

[–] Seperatrix (1220) 4 years ago

I haven't seen this film in awhile but if I remember correctly Jake was assigned to his division and he was tasked with training him. So Jake was a burden in effect. The fact that Jake was assigned in the middle of a mess that Alonzo was in necessitated that he attempt to bring him on board quickly. It was all bad timing (for Alonzo).

[–] redban (6198) 4 years ago

Alonzo could have done it the day before. He said, at one point, “I’ve been planning this all week.” Jake was part of the plan imo

[–] Seperatrix (1220) 4 years ago

Well you make an interesting point, and not to dismiss it out of hand, but I can see room where Alonzo meant that he was planning what he was going to do with Roger, the Wise Men, the Russians, etc. all week, not necessarily what he planned to do with Hoyt. But you may be right.

[–] CoachGainz (453) 4 years ago

Good points.

I'm not sold on the Jake works better for his plans idea. Infact Jake nearly derailed the whole thing several times and Alonzo almost got shot by him at Rogers'. I think if anything bringing an unknown rookie into play would be far more hazardous than helpful. Certainly didn't make things smoother. Alonzo would have to have a damn good reason to have Jake be apart of it.

The only reason I can see is that Alonzo needed a guy to take the heat for killing Roger. Hence why he's so persistent that the shooter was Jake even tho it wasn't. If shooting Roger wasn't a big deal why not just take the heat himself or one of the other guys? Even with a gun to his head Alonzo still isn't willing to remove Jake as the shooter.

I suppose a good question would be if Alonzo had any say in Jake being assigned to his unit and when he would start. Seems like a hell of a coincidence that a new rookie would be assigned to Alonzo the day he planned to tax Roger and meet the Russians but unlikely things do happen I suppose. On top of that Alonzo was clearly hooked up with more powerful if not most powerful officers. "Lt got our back" " I'll make sure your blood gets to the lab". If he could do that I would say he could also delay a new recruit or move up the start date. At the beginning of the movie Jake's wife says something like everybody is telling him how lucky he is, but I'd say luck was not the factor in his assignment.

[–] redban (6198) 4 years ago

You talk as if Jake doomed the plan from the start and was a huge hazard. And Jake did derail the plan ultimately. But remember that the end was a freak occurrence. Jake just happened to have the girl’s wallet in his pocket, as he just happened to save her; and that girl just happened to be related to the gang members. The odds are astronomical. That indicates that Alonzo’s plan was, really, a good plan; the plan would have worked out 999,999 times out of a million. (I don’t think Jake was ever seriously going to shoot Alonzo in Roger’s room. Alonzo knew that he wasn’t going to do it, as he told his boys to stand down. Jake didn’t “almost derail” the plan several times imo. The end was the only serious attempt at derailment)

You said it — he needed Jake to be Roger’s shooter. It’s implied that the police / Internal Affairs are going to carefully investigate what happened. See the way Alonzo meticulously wants to “quarterback” the story when one of his guys was bleeding out. He knew he had to get this part right. Roger’s death will effect an investigation. The investigators would be more likely to rule out a corrupt enterprise if the clean-cut rookie (who didn’t know the others) is the shooter. If Alonzo or one of the other guys is the shooter, then there is the chance that investigators would smell corruption because those guys have worked together a lot in the past and probably had some complaints against them. The investigators might surmise that Alonzo and his boys planned something fishy; but the investigators won’t believe that Jake could have been part of it.

[–] CoachGainz (453) 4 years ago

Regardless if Jake got super lucky with the gang and everything would have worked out fine if he hadn't he was a huge liability.

During the Roger scene he refuses to take money and then not only refuses to shoot Roger he takes Alonzo's gun and aims it at his head. It was bad enough that the other guys were ready to shoot him dead right then and there. If he had shot Alonzo they'd both be dead and the other guys would be in prison. That's a huge liability all because Alonzo brought an unknown rookie into the plan. So yes there would have to be a good reason to have Jake there.

Alonzo planning to kill Jake from the beginning is debatable. I'd say he did hence the electronics in the trunk from the beginning. I think the Roger test is mute since he did testify that he shot him. So, as far as anybody's concerned he did.

Alonzo seeming to like Jake was part of his manipulation. Him telling Jake to get out of his car was a push pull. Oh you don't want to smoke this weed? Fine get out of my car btw go write some write some parking tickets. Oh you don't like me opening fire in a neighborhood? Fine get out of my car btw go help that lady with her flat tire. He knows Jake wants to be a high level cop and uses the idea of low level police work the rest of his life to keep him from leaving. He also gives Jake a speech about having a golden eye and how he sees himself in him. Directly after setting the hit up over the phone. Then after Jake survives the hit he tries some BS about passing a test.

I think what makes Alonzo so interesting is his high level of charisma and manipulation. You can never tell what his angle is or if he's being genuine. Even when he's threatening your life he can turn around and make you like him the next minute.

[–] tph890 (489) 4 years ago

I don’t think Alonzo ever needed Jake, but instead Alonzo had to adapt to Jake being inserted into an already ongoing scheme. I think that if Alonzo hadn’t been forced to contend with Jake, he might have gotten away with the scheme. Jake was an element that Alonzo actually didn’t expect in his week-long ‘master plan’, and that leads to Alonzo’s well-deserved and inevitable comeuppance.
I think this ‘training day’ was a mashup of audibles called by Alonzo at the tail-end of a mostly reasonable plan, and Alonzo’s arrogance backfired drastically.

[–] spurtle467 (1547) 4 years ago

I agree with others about not needing Hoyt, and that this was a plan that would have gone on without him. Alonzo simply tried to corrupt Hoyt and when he wasn't buying into any of it, Alonzo decided he was expendable. After Hoyt refused to shoot Roger, I think that was the last chance Alonzo gave him. So while it wasn't the plan to kill Jake from the start, or that he was necessary to the rest of the days events, Alonzo knew he could manipulate the situation to his advantage and do away with Jake if he had to.

[–] Snausages (9) 3 years ago

[deleted]

[–] ExTechOp (2770) 3 years ago

A lot of excellent replies on this thread, but I thought I'd add a few tidbits from the director's commentary track (which is excellent BTW, one of the best)

First, Alonzo didn't NEED Jake, per se, but if Jake had played along (i.e., taken the money and killed Roger), then Alonzo would benefit from having another corrupt cop on his team.

It's true that Alonzo's team of "decorated cops" might well survive an internal affairs inquiry into Roger's shooting, but Jake would be unassailable.

So Jake was a calculated gamble. He works out, Alonzo's got a "good kill" and a new team member to do his dirty work, placing him one step higher on his path towards becoming a "wise man" himself.

If Jake doesn't work out, there's still Smiley's bathtub waiting.

Now, Fuqua's commentary more or less spells this all out. He emphasizes the points at which Alonzo's assessing Jake, seeing whether he's got the drive and smarts to actually be on his team.

And this is critical, everyone here seems to agree that Alonzo set up the execution at Smiley's before the conversation in the car. Several posters claim that Jake signed his own death warrant by refusing to shoot Roger and instead pointing the shotgun at Alonzo.

It's true, BUT ... the conversation in the car was Alonzo giving Jake one final chance to "go dirty" and play along. THAT was Jake's "last chance."

It's fascinating, because while the car conversation was largely scripted, Fuqua claims he got tons of footage of Denzel and Ethan just sitting there, improvising in character, and arguing this one, final point. It was an important moment to the characters AND to the filmmakers.

[–] jacotodd47 (1843) 3 years ago

NOt so much that he "needed" Jake, but I'm sure he felt at some point Jake would be useful. Jake didn't have a clue of what was going on and very little experience. ALonzo knows he's gonna be pulling some sh*&^t that day. He figures at some point, Jake may be useful. That usefulness is found when ALonzo drops Roger. Before he does, he tries to get Jake to do it and Jake won't. Then he tries to get Jake to take the blame, and he won't. Even with all this happening - I don't think ALonzo intended to kill Jake. After the killing Roger business and taking his cash is done with - ALonzo has that talk with Jake in his car. I took it as during that conversation, Alonzo realized Jake will never be a convert. ALonzo then makes the decision to get rid of him. Because at this point, Jake is a threat. If Jake indicated he was on board with ALonzo and his team - no way Alonzo would have wanted him killed.